War, friend only to the undertaker wingnut blogger
Fareed Zakaria, while managing to make some valid points, offers a “question” so stupid it answers itself, and describes the alternate reality of the world he lives in. First things first:
George W. Bush is fond of describing himself as a “war president.” And he has made many decisions involving soldiers and battle. But does this make the description an appropriate one? For many people the answer is obvious. We’re engaged in conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, after all. But Bill Clinton initiated hostilities in the Balkans twice, George H.W. Bush invaded Panama and Iraq, and neither president ever described himself as a “war president.”
Someone else can handle Clinton, but as far as 41 is concerned: maybe the reason he didn’t describe himself as a war president, or isn’t thought of as one, is that the invasion of Panama lasted a few weeks, and that the invasion [!] of Iraq in 1991 lasted 15 minutes.* Does that really seem so hard to figure out?
The best, however, is this:
By any of these criteria, we are not at war. At some level, we all know it. [Emphasis added]
No, we don’t. Zakaria does, I do, our readers do, but all it takes on the internets is 30 seconds to see that “we” don’t know that:
[Kathryn Jean Lopez]
McCain may not rally a trial, but there’s there there that could plausible be commander-in-chief of a nation at war (really, we are, remember? It’s not just over there.)
Say, and believe, what you want about Bush, the NR crowd, the right-wing blogs we link to, the 30% of the population that still supports Bush, etc…: The War on Terrah is a war they believe in.
* I keed, I keed. But 100 hours of ground war doesn’t amount to a whole lot. Zakaria’s formulation is especially unfortunate, to put it kindly, given that:
The rebellions were encouraged on 2 February 1991 by a broadcast on CIA run radio station The Voice of Free Iraq broadcasting out of Saudi Arabia. The Arabic service of the Voice of America supported the uprising by stating that the rebellion was large and that they soon would be liberated from Hussein.
K-Lo link via Roy.
McCain may not rally a trial, but there’s there there that could plausible be commander-in-chief of a nation at war (really, we are, remember? It’s not just over there.)
Alright, I give up. WHAT?
Clicking through to K-Lo’s alleged “post,” I am confronted with this:
I’m not proud, but the truth is, he is so not-impressive off-script that you easily forget that this is SOMETHING BIG you’re watching. He’s umming and throat-clearing and looking and sounding out of his league. Which is what he is, of course. But we don’t always see the reality for what it is, because he can deliver a good speech and work a crowd. I may not be listening, but I’m appreciating the clarifying moment.
K-Lo, I know this is the internet, but before you start typing a paragraph, maybe you should figure out what it’s supposed to say?
Pardon me. Hold on:
“McCain may not rally a crowd, but there’s there there that could plausibly be commander-in-chief of a nation at war (really, we are, remember? It’s not just over there.).”
The fuck does that mean?! That this “woman” is paid to do ANYTHING beyond scraping gum off the tiles at the Port Authority bathroom stalls is beyond me.
Reading even one sentence of K-Lo can cause irreversible brain damage.
I thought the reason Jr. called himself a war president is ’cause he lacks the humility to let others make completely unjustified comparisons to Abraham Lincoln and FDR. He started floating war president around when comparing Iraq to WWII was in vogue with neocons as a media management talking point.
I could be wrong but calling FDR a war president was an honor, i.e. not a title mandated by how long the Marines stick around after storming beaches. It might help that there were several congressional declarations of war during FDR’s later years.
Japan, 1941: “The state of war between the United States and the Imperial Government of Japan which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared.”
Germany, 1941: “That the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared.”
Italy, 1941: “The state of war between the United States and the Government of Italy, which has thus been thrust upon the United States, is hereby formally declared.”
Bulgaria, 1942: “The state of war between the United States and the Government of Bulgaria which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared.”
Hungary, 1942: “The state of war between the United States and the Government of Hungary which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared.”
Romania, 1942: “The state of war between the United States and the Government of Rumania which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared.”
Heh indeed.
Wow. I’m of Italian, Hungarian and Romanian descent. I guess I’m a liberal traitor, since I’m a trifecta of war.
OK, we’re going to sum up K-Lo’s…ahem…”post” now. Ready?
-I am not paying attention to Obama’s press conference, which is my whole point.
-Obama is a bad and unappealing speaker who hides that he’s out of his league by giving good speeches and appealing to lots of people.
-McCain may not rally a crowd, but there there there there there there there there there…..
-WAR, BITCHUZZZZZ!!!!
We’re all traitors, Athenawise. A few lucky traitors like yourself come in concentrated form.
McCain may not rally a trial,
I don’t even know what this means. Like a trollop you cunt. Because shut up, that’s why.
George W. Bush is fond of describing himself as a “war president.”
Yeah – funny, that. After Karl Rove found out that “war presidents” are more often re-elected and after White House counsel discovered that “war presidents” have absolute power.
If only war presidents could handle pretzels and Segways! Then nothing could stop them.
I think we are failing to appreciate K-Lo’s foray into non-representational prose.
George W. Bush is fond of describing himself as a “war president.”
I’m fond of describing George W. Bush as a Texas Turd. Guess that makes us even.
I’d say there’s a difference between a “wartime president” which goes to the state of affairs and a “war president” a description which does seem to cover W, as making war seems to be his favorite foreign policy much as I would describe those who prefer to murder with axes as ax murderers.
McCain may not rally a trial, but there’s there there that could plausible be
Excuse me, but…is this English? And she edits that shithole? Jesus.
but there’s there there that could plausible…
How do we apply (sic) to an entire ‘career?’
I thought the reason Jr. called himself a war president is ’cause he lacks the humility to let others make completely unjustified comparisons to Abraham Lincoln and FDR. He started floating war president around when comparing Iraq to WWII was in vogue with neocons as a media management talking point.
Heh, remember, also, when the Bushies were comparing W to Churchill? Well, actually the claim was that Bush was superior to Churchill (and FDR) because they were the cowards that gave up Eastern Europe to Stalin at Yalta. Remember the speech that W gave at Riga on the 60th anniversary of VE day?
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2005/05/b727679.html
Does anyone believe that W had even heard of the Yalta Conference before he read that speech?
I think K Lo is referencing the Gertrude Stein/Oakland “there is no ‘there’ there.” She’s hard to decipher, but I find a sustained application of ball-peen hammer to the forehead helps.
Bill Clinton, Dwight Eisenhower and Grover Cleveland all made decisions, but none of them described himself as “the decider”. FDR was a guy, and as President was commander-in-chief of the army and navy, but he did not call himself “the commander guy”.
I think K Lo is referencing the Gertrude Stein/Oakland “there is no ‘there’ there.”
I believe so too, but I’d be very surprised if she’s actually aware of who said it in the first place. And as an editor, she can hardly be expected to punctuate it properly like you did.
…he did not call himself “the commander guy”.
Gack! Sometimes I block out some of the particulars of Dumbya’s utter ridiculous toolishness. I’d forgotten about this one.
Somehow I bet our as-yet-unborn great-grandchildren are already pointing and laughing at us about this lunkhead. When they’re not cursing the debt he’s saddled them with.
Wow. I’m of Italian, Hungarian and Romanian descent. I guess I’m a liberal traitor, since I’m a trifecta of war.
You’re actually a trifecta of someone whose homeland ancestors got led off a cliff by a pack of fools. At least your immediate forebears escaped in time. (At least I hope it was in time.)
Somehow I bet our as-yet-unborn great-grandchildren are already pointing and laughing at us about this lunkhead.
It will be known as a Special time in American History.
That’s “Special” as in Special Olympics….
Could we get a translator for K-Lo’s native tongue (I believe it’s called K-Lose)? I hear the Iraqis need to get rid of ne as a fall guy – maybe he could come here and explain how K-Lo is just misunderstood & misinterpreted? Or one of those gay military translators – they all need new jobs now.
KLo calling out someone for being out of their league is perhaps the stupidest bit of unintended irony even published in the history of the internet (traditions)…until the next time she posts something.
She’s corrected some of her mistakes, though not the punctuation. ( I know I’m one to talk. The concept of “war” is the whole foundation of the politics of fear that Bush traded on and McCain hoped to continue to trade on. I imagine Obama’s trip is one scary ride from the endorsement by Maliki on. And all she can muster is a half-hearted endorsment of McCain’s military bona fides. Well, I think the idea that flying a military jet is enough to qualify you as Commander-in-Chief has been all too thoroughly debunked.
Fire up the old blog, Psycheout! Brownback is back, at least in Kathyrn Jean’s mind.
We’re not at war? What are our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan doing, rehearsing for a musical? Are the US carrier groups currently stationed in the Persian Gulf waiting for the perfect fishing weather?
OK, we’re not at war. We’re in two really long-term police actions, with an option on a third. How about that?
Oh sweet jesus relish with pimentos, yes.
I heartily endorse the sam brownback for mccains running mate.
The only downside is he’ll seem like a good speaker in comparison.
But the crazy will continue to be just plain wacko crazy, and on display next to the bitter, angry stupid of mccain, it will be without a doubt the LEAST likable presidential ticket since eisenhower/nixon…
mikey
People liked Ike.
Here’s what the right means by “There’s no there there.” I guess “there’s there there” is like that, only… stupider.
Interesting note: I also remember “There’s no there there” being used by reporters in the 90’s to indicate their frustration at being repeatedly sent to dig up Whitewater dirt on the Clintons.
May the ghosts of Strunk and White haunt J-Lo’s nightmares forever.
But the crazy will continue to be just plain wacko crazy, and on display next to the bitter, angry stupid of mccain, it will be without a doubt the LEAST likable presidential ticket since eisenhower/nixon…
mikey
Cthulhu/Yog-Sothoth 2008!
Good God Y’all.
If only war presidents could handle pretzels and Segways!
Not to mention the Constitution, checks and balances, the will of the people, a basic understanding of the three branches of government, an acknowledgment that other countries aw fuck it.
MzNIcky said,
July 23, 2008 at 1:03
Good God Y’all.
No one’s linked Edwin Starr yet?
Fixed.
Not to mention the Constitution, checks and balances, the will of the people…
Oh no, those are the very things being a “war president” excuses you from dealing with. Just ask Addington and Yoo!
Thunder Boy: Awesome. Man, what memories. That was the anthem we chanted when we marched against the Vietnam War, nearly 40 years ago for crissakes.
Cheney made an appearance here on campus back in 2005, and gangs of student protesters stood up on either side of the arena — one side called out “War! What is it good for?” and the other side yelled back “Dick!” This went on for maybe 20 seconds before they were wrangled out of the place. My heart swelled with pride, especially when I saw two of my very own students amongst those bravehearts.
Edwin Starr helped ignite my fledgling hippie liebrul consciousness. What a voice.
Bush: I want to implement a torture program. I need a way to make it legal. Who should I ask?
Cheney: Ask Yoo.
Bush: But I don’t know. I’m not a lawyer, Dick, I’m the decider guy. I need to ask a lawyer.
Cheney: Ask Yoo.
Bush: Are you sure? Can I answer that question?
Cheney: Of course you can’t, Georgie. But Yoo can.
Bush: Now you’re just teasing me again. I’m telling my mom on you.
Cheney: What’s you’re mom going to do to Yoo?
Bush: She’s not gonna do ANYTHING to me. But you’re gonna get it.
Hilarity ensues…
mikey
I guess “there’s there there” is like that, only… stupider.
How cruel! For poor K-Lo to pour her heart out and be mocked like this – only to face yet more mockery if she were to object. No sympathy at all!
How many pitiable wingnuts must find that there’s no “there, there” there for their writing “there’s there there”?
“My friends, that’s not change we can believe in. Heh…heh…heh…”
Mikey, I’m stealing your joke.
there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be there’s there there that could plausible be
“I’m not listening to Obama’s speech but he’s not a good speaker.” In one concept, the entire wingnut approach to the world.
McCain may not rally a trial, but there’s there there that could plausible be […]Sorry, I just had to quote it one more time. For posterity. Reminds me of Chomsky’s “Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.” Has K-Lo inadvertently proven some related but converse axiom, something about syntax which is neither semantically nor logically correct? Pretty inconsiderate of her to continue writing for her wide audience (of approximately ten people), knowing that this stupidity happens every time she plugs her Wang word processor into the Google tubes.
…she plugs her Wang word processor into the Google tubes.
Y’know, if I could get a pic of this I’d use it as my desktop wallpaper.
Honest….
mikey
How do we apply (sic) to an entire ‘career?’
“Sic: My Life in Letters”, by Kathryn Jean Lopez. Pre-order at Amazon.
I think K Lo is referencing the Gertrude Stein/Oakland “there is no ‘there’ there.”
I was thinking Stein, too. A there is a there is a there. But, hell that didn’t make any fuckin’ sense either.
In Hell, they use excerpts from K-Load’s blog to torment English teachers and editors.
McCain may not rally a trial, but there’s there there that could plausible be commander-in-chief of a nation at war (really, we are, remember? It’s not just over there.)
“Indeed, Fraulein K-Lo – und even if our stealth agent McCain ist kaput for der trial-rallying, our war mit ze schweinhund Englischer-gesprachen vill musst find raum aroundt the entire VORLD!”
… funny, though, that Plausible guy must be quite the dark-horse candidate, since he’s been totally blacked out in the media right from the start! By default, I’m guessing he’s the best man for President of The U to tha S to tha muthafuckin’ A!
Vote Plausible/There-There FTW in 2008!
I agree that Brownback would be a fine choice. Or Pawlenty, or Romney, or please please please Bobby Jindal. OMG that would be like Alan Keyes II – voters are about to choose an “inexperienced brown person” so super-quick pick someone less experienced and equally brown who also happens to be bat-fucking nuts. Come on, give it a try.
If any of y’all haven’t read “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man”, do it, soon. John Perkins, the author, was/is very well known in the corporate world and he explains (clear enough that even I can understand it) that these “wars” that we’ve been through (particularly starting with Reagan) have been utter bullshit, meant to advance a corporate line and having nothing to do with anything an actual patriot would feel proud of. Panama? Shit! I never even knew that there was no “Panama” until the U.S. simply stole a chunk of Columbia so it could make greater trade profits with the canal. Omar Torrijos wanted his people to have the canal back (because IT FUCKING BELONGED TO THEM) and he negotiated a treaty with Carter, who did the decent thing and gave it back to them. This didn’t set well with the Reaganites, so they had Torrijos whacked and tore the treaty up, taking back the canal like the treaty had never happened. When Noriega became the new leader of Panama, he started talking with the Japanese about building a new canal that would be “lock-less” and technically superior. In addition, is was going to be built with Japanese financing and Japanese construction firms, cutting the U.S. completely out of the deal. So what happened? Suddenly Noriega was the new Hitler, a huge drug runner and anything else the Bushies could dream up to tar him with. Without any provocation on the part of Panama, the U.S. attacked with the largest airborne assault on any city since WWII, killing thousands. The exact number of dead is unknown because the U.S. prevented the press, Red Cross and other aid organizations in, while they gathered and burned the bodies.
Same bullshit with the first Iraq war. The Bushies wanted Iraq’s oil, wanted Iraq to buy U.S. government securities with petrodollars and to hire U.S. firms to build a massive and fabulously expensive new infrastructure with it’s oil wealth. When Saddam decided not to play along, HE became the new Hitler. The second war against Iraq had been long planned, well before 9/11, and like all of the others, is all about fulfilling corporate desires, without the slightest concern about the million or so Iraqi civilians that were going to die, or the thousands of U.S. soldiers who would (after being told that they were fighting the “terrorists” who attacked us on 9/11). The whole “lifetime of war” that the Cheneyites promote is simply a cash cow for the corporate world. The bullshit atrocities they’ve committed, from Abu Ghraib to Gitmo torture are designed to inflame the Arab world, to actually CREATE a war where there was none. That’s what the coming war on Iran is all about. Are you aware that as signatories of the NPT, that the U.S. is obliged (by the rule of the goddamned treaty) to actually ASSIST Iran with the building of their nuclear power plant? The Iranians are enriching uranium at an easily verifiable 3%, and there is no fucking way for them to build a nuke out of that!! We are going to go in and NUKE Iran, simply because the corporations think they can make a profit off of the mass murder of millions, by stealing the oil fields and forcing Iran to pay for the rebuilding of the infrastructure that we’re going to destroy. These bastards are so focused on cumming dollars that they can’t grasp the simple notion that that first nuke is going to shatter the U.S. (talk about your goddamned irony…).
Anyway, read the book, it’ll fill you in on how phony all of the flag-waving these assholes are involved in really is. War on terror? Shit, our own country is waging war on US!
I have to do it?
I have to do it. Fuck
Bush did not call himself “the commander guy.” He said something that was pretty dumb, but not that dumb.
He did, however, call himself the Decider.
Go about your business.
Also, please add a period to the end of line two.
I believe that he did call himself something like “The Commander guy.”
An exact quote will be forthcoming.
Bush did not call himself “the commander guy.” He said something that was pretty dumb, but not that dumb.
Sorry – a commander guy.
The question is, who ought to make that decision? The Congress or the commanders? And as you know, my position is clear — I’m a commander guy.
An exact quote will be forthcoming.
That one was easy.
Actually, Auguste is correct in that the line isn’t that stupid in context – but incorrect about the period thing:
I agree that his intent was to say that he supported the commanders in making decisions rather than Congress, and not that his title was Commander Guy, if that’s what you meant.
You’re out of control, Auguste.
Auguste is correct in that the line isn’t that stupid in context…
Yes, and also correct that it was still pretty dumb.
I’m not proud, but the truth is, he is so not-impressive off-script that you easily forget that this is SOMETHING BIG you’re watching!?!?!?!?
Where the fuck have these dipshits been for the last seven years? On-script or off, the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. is about as anti-impressive as they come. Fuck, that’s the whole of his campaign appeal, as I understand it. These people aren’t just on crack, they’re huffing crack-laced Krylon in a paper bag.
Jesus.
Oh, K-Lo. Such a synchronicity that I managed to find a youtube of W muttering and blathering like a Tourette’s sufferer on valium. I’m sure Obama’s speeches lack a je ne sais quoi when you take all the words out – but Commander Guy Smirky Pause-a-lot…
With an “em”?
Where the fuck have these dipshits been for the last seven years?
Well collected!
They know exactly where they were for the last 7 years – kissing that goober’s ass and calling us traitors for not doing so. They’re just warming up their Bush 2 = Highlander 2 schtick in which they pretend there’s a border between the Clinton and Obama presidencies.
Where the fuck have these dipshits been for the last seven years?
The same place they were in 1980, when they fell in love with the most manufactured president in history. As I commented over at Alicublog, it’s quite easy to understand the right’s antipathy toward Obama, and before him, Bill Clinton–Obama and Clinton are skilled politicians, and brilliant at manipulating imagery. And that’s supposed to be Republican turf.
they’re huffing crack-laced Krylon in a paper bag.
Hmmm….Xavier the Beatnik offered me some Krylon™ back in the alley behind the Blood Clot. I’d never done any hippie-stuff like that before, so I was a little ascared. Anyway, it made me feel dizzy. And it turned my face metallic gold. That caused the bikers in the Blood Clot to accuse me of being a “colored fella”, beat me up and sodomize me. Again.
(sigh) Xavier thought it was pretty funny, but he promised me that next time he’ll use a flesh-tone-for-a-white-man Krylon™ so I don’t have to suffer these indignities of The Heartland again (at least, not for having a gold face).
Rugged…there’s someone else…isn’t there?
Here, here Pedestrian! (Not to be confused with There, there.)
If Bobby “The Exorcist” Jindal gets the nod look for me on the nightly news. I’ll be the excitable bloke doing hand springs all the way around 495.
And then I would pop up a shit ton of popcorn and watch the fReichtards burst into flames as their brains fuse. “Well… It’s OK that he changed his name [bzzt] … and he’s still more American than [fizzzle] Obama… Daisy, daisy, give me your answer doooo…”
There’s plenty of There in Oakland, plus a nice view of SF without the fog!
Thanks, but the funny thing is, those are all from the first four or five pages of a GIS for “Bush”. It’s not like you have to look far to find Preznit Fuckup acting stupid.
30%? Oh, I beg to differ.
And in Iraq, at least, tain’t no war, it’s an occupation.
To be fair, the smoke does seem to still be screwing with the bay views. Wildfires, and all. At least the Sun isn’t still an odd red-orange ball that doesn’t hurt to look at directly.
fucking pelicans…
Stop looking!
just leave us alone!
Does Piyush “Bobby” Jindal have a legal birth certificate? Oh, I’m sorry, COLB? I need to inspect teh kernings. Medium quality jpegs will do and are in fact preferred.
How say thus?
Speaking of the undertaker…
During the Civil War in the United States, 42 percent of the casualties were unidentified in the late 1860s. By World War II this percentage was reduced to 3 percent in the late 1940s. Today, the US Army is capable of recovering and identifying virtually 100 percent of all US remains lost during a military operation. The four key elements that led to this success at mortuary affairs are training, search and recovery procedures, identification of remains, and burial procedures. Each element developed during the past 100 years through experience, new doctrine, and force modernization.
The key to any military operation is, and always has been, training. The Mortuary Affairs Center at the US Army Quartermaster Center and School, Fort Lee, VA, is the proponent for all United States armed forces mortuary affairs training. The Mortuary Affairs Center meets the Army’s need for mortuary affairs training with several different programs of instruction. Each program is designed to develop the competencies and leadership skills needed at each level of professional development.
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Advanced Enlisted Training
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Joint Senior NCO Course
Senior NCOs from all branches of service may attend the two-week Joint Mortuary Affairs Senior NCO Course. This course is designed for personnel presently holding or anticipating assignment to a mortuary affairs position, either as a primary duty or as an additional staff duty. The joint course focuses on planning, coordinating and supervising the care and handling of deceased personnel and their personal effects.
A bugler sounded taps for 11 unknown Korean war dead at the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific in Hawaii in May 1956.
Officer Training
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Search and Recovery Procedures
According to current doctrine, the remains of all members of the armed forces will be returned for permanent disposition as directed by the person authorized to direct disposition of remains. This policy is the heart of current search and recovery operations. The US citizens will not tolerate leaving behind deceased military personnel. This is a simple statement of fact. There are many examples of search and recovery operations throughout history, as well as examples of current doctrine in operation.
Consider the history of search and recovery. During the US Civil War, hundreds of thousands of soldiers were buried in often unmarked and unremembered grave sites. Despite this fact, almost 295,000 deceased soldiers were recovered and interred in national cemeteries in the five years after that war. In World War I, recovery procedures expanded. Sketches and maps of temporary grave sites were made and kept. This greatly improved the search and recovery operations, as well as the identification process.
Search and recovery during World War II focused on another methodology. Temporary graves accounted for more than 250,000 US soldiers around the world. This greatly improved recovery capabilities, but the disinterment and return of the remains became a logistics nightmare.
By the Korean war, a new strategy was devised. This new strategy involved the concurrent return of remains to the continental US. This effort to return remains became known as Operation Glory. Deceased US soldiers and their effects were evacuated to Japan and then shipped home in refrigerated containers for interment in the US. This method of recovery led to the development of current search and recovery doctrine.
Casualties from past wars still concern the military. Search and recovery of soldiers from earlier conflicts is mainly conducted by the US Army Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii (CILHI). CILHI focuses on remains located throughout Southeast Asia from the Vietnam war era of the 1960s and 1970s.
Modern day search and recovery is a vital, sensitive and important part of combat service support. The key to search and recovery on the modern battlefield is not the mortuary affairs team, but rather the responsibility of every unit. Mortuary affairs teams, located in the brigade support area (BSA), support the entire brigade.
Unit leadership is responsible for initial search and recovery. When casualties occur and the tactical situation permits, a unit team should be organized to collect deceased personnel and their effects. The remains and effects are then retrograded to the BSA where a mortuary affairs team will handle the concurrent return of the remains.
Identification of Remains
The Department of the Army and Department of Defense have come a long way in successful identification of soldier remains. Identification remains the key step in the mortuary affairs process. Identification is achieved by pre- and post-death medical and dental records, examining personal effects and, more recently, DNA analysis. These changes and improvements have come through better training, new and improved identification methodology, improving technology, and doctrinal changes. With today’s technology, 100 percent identification of remains is possible.
Technology has had the largest impact on the identification of remains. Soldiers’ records now contain information not available during previous wars and conflicts. Specific locations have been designated in Hawaii and Washington, DC, to assist with the identification process. Finally, joint doctrine has changed to ensure timely return and identification of US service members.
Past history illustrates the successes in the identification process. Of the 81,462 US dead in World War I, the remains of 1,227 were not recovered and identified. The remains of 1,648 (2.11 percent) were unidentified and subsequently interred as “unknowns.”
The figures for World War II list the total US dead as 360,844. The remains of about 79,000 were not recovered and identified, while 8,532 (3 percent) were not identified and also were buried as “unknowns.”
In the Korean war, the total dead numbered 36,923. The remains of 856 (again 3 percent) were interred as “unknowns.” Identification methods at that time consisted of fingerprints and written dental records (not X-rays).
During the Vietnam war in the 1960s and 1970s, about 57,500 US military personnel died in Southeast Asia. Of that total, 2,235 remained unrecovered at the end of hostilities. In September 1998, that figure stood at 2,076. To date, no US service member who died in that conflict has been categorized as “unknown.”
In 1951, during the Korean war, the Department of the Army took a great step in the enhancement of the remains identification process by developing the first central identification laboratory (CIL), in Kokura, Japan. The CIL, the first facility of its type to serve all military services, permitted the evacuation of US dead from Korea to Japan. It was staffed by professionals and added greatly to the US identification rate.
This US Military Cemetery in Italy is typical of those overseas during the World War II era.
Central Identification Laboratory Moves
The CIL ceased to exist after the Korean war but later was reestablished as the United States Mortuary, Saigon, Vietnam, during the war in Southeast Asia. In March 1973, the laboratory was moved to Thailand and designated as the USACIL. This coincided with the withdrawal of US forces from Vietnam. In May 1976, the laboratory was again moved, this time to Hawaii, where it continues to operate today as the US Army CILHI.
Some operations that have involved Army mortuary affairs in the past few decades include CILHI personnel returning to Korea and Vietnam and successfully identifying remains; the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Washington, DC, work on the space shuttle program’s disasters; and soldiers from the 54th Mortuary Affairs Company at Fort Lee traveling to Oklahoma after the bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City in the late 1990s. Technological improvements have been aided by more detailed information on soldiers today.
The CILHI maintains records of all information about lost personnel. The CILHI’s functions include recording descriptions of remains; performing dental, fluoroscopic and anthropological examinations; making chemical or scientific analysis; and fingerprinting. This central identification laboratory serves as the final processing point for the remains of all military personnel. The CILHI traces its roots to the mortuaries of Vietnam, but it has conducted search, recovery and identification on the remains from many past conflicts. To date, CILHI has handled 131 Cold War remains, more than 2,100 Vietnam war remains, 8,100 Korean war remains, and more than 78,000 World War II remains. It is the largest laboratory of its kind in the world. Identification methods are improving all the time, but good records will remain the key to the identification process.
Burial Procedures
The final step in the mortuary affairs process is burial. Although current doctrine allows for the temporary burial of remains in a theater with the appropriate approval, the goal is 100 percent concurrent return. Throughout history, the US has used temporary interment. As early as the Mexican War, hundreds of soldiers were buried at battle sites in Mexico as the war progressed. Only a small percentage were located after the war ended.
During the US Civil War, remains were often buried in mass graves. This led to the development of the national cemeteries throughout the United States. The most famous national cemetery in Arlington, VA, was actually established just before the Civil War ended. The Quartermaster General requested 210 acres of land from General Robert E. Lee’s estate in 1864. More than 225,000 soldiers are now buried at Arlington.
In World War I, remains were buried throughout Europe, and eight permanent cemeteries were established overseas. Of these remains, 47,000 were returned to the US for interment. Overseas cemeteries are maintained by the American Battlefield Monuments Organization.
During World War II, more than 250,000 US soldiers were buried in temporary cemeteries. Not until the Korean war did the US Army move away from this practice. During the Vietnam war, concurrent return allowed fallen comrades to be returned to the US in about seven days. Future doctrine in mortuary affairs is leaning toward more efficiency in the theater, with full military rites and honors conducted for the deceased upon interment in the US. Every veteran is entitled to a grave site marker and military rites at the funeral. A person may request military rites for a veteran who is retired or no longer an active member of the Active or Reserve Components of the military. Requests can be made through many organizations, such as the Veterans Administration or information officers at any Army National Guard or US Army Reserve unit. All active units, most reserve units, as well as most active Veterans of Foreign Wars and American Legion posts have a color guard identified to perform military funeral rites.
Three Programs To Fit Military Needs
Different mortuary affairs programs are used for different circumstances. Under the current death program, remains are shipped to a place designated by the person authorized to direct permanent disposition and are provided with professional mortuary services. The graves registration program provides for search, recovery, tentative identification, and evacuation or temporary burial of deceased personnel. The concurrent return program is the preferred method of handling remains during periods of conflict. Remains are evacuated from the battlefield and shipped to the US for interment. The concurrent return program is used when the current death program capabilities are exceeded but conditions do not require temporary interment.
No More Unknown Soldiers
The importance of mortuary affairs on the modern battlefield is evident. The US citizens expect a fallen soldier to be brought back home. The basis of mortuary affairs is found in the training of soldiers, search and recovery procedures, identification of fallen comrades, and appropriate burial that includes the performance of military rites for the deceased. The bottom line in today’s Army is that soldiers train to find, recover, identify and bring home all fallen comrades. The goal is no more unknown soldiers.
The authors are Quartermaster graduates of the Combined Logistics Officer Advanced Course 97-5/6 at Fort Lee, Virginia.
Cold…so very, very cold…
[…] loanboxxp wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptCasualties from past wars still concern the military. Search and recovery of soldiers from earlier conflicts is mainly conducted by the US Army Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii (CILHI). CILHI focuses on remains located … […]
7% are undecided.
Somebody needs a dope slap.
Okay, assuming he did say “a commander guy”, it’s a stupidly worded (or I guess folksy) way of saying “I listen to the military commanders”, which itself is patently untrue (unless you add the qualification “when they agree with me”).
Enough of having a “guy” in the White House.
We need a “man.”
Ref: Dave Barry’s Book of Guys
(unless you add the qualification “when they agree with me”).
The whole “commanders on the ground” is retarded. Civilian control of the military is not a bad concept people.
Essentially what The Decider was saying was: in the question of how many servicemen will die in Iraq, people he personally appointed are more important than the people elected by the families of those very servicemen.
We need a man. Heh indeed.
A “war President” who vetoed a pay raise for the troops he’s kept deployed longer than they expected or should have been? How do wingers justify any kindness towards Bush if they truly support the troops? He vetoes every measure that would help them. Life on Mars, honestly!
The fact is, we are at war. The liberals may have no stomach to defeat our islamic enemy, but here in the heartland we do. This means sacrifice, something you are not familiar with, as you are the class warriors who use the state to forcibly take the just earnings of the productive and give them to yourselves and the lazy. Stop trying to sabotage our fight for freedom and not support our troops. We need to stay in it to win it.
The fact is, why so serious? We here in the Heartland realize the importance of having a smile on your face. Wanna see a magic trick, you liberals?
The fact is, in the Heartland we think Cheeto-stained pubes are a sign of manlyness and USA Power!
W is the war president because it makes his Dick hard. Or so the Rude Pundit says.
[Kathryn Jean Lopez]
McCain may not rally a trial, but there’s there there that could plausible be commander-in-chief of a nation at war (really, we are, remember? It’s not just over there.)
There there there, it can’t be all that bad?
Umm… what? Someone take her keyboard away, she’s typing impaired. BUI is a serious problem in America, especially in the rightward regions of the blogosphere.
The fact is, we at war. The Cro-Magnans have no stomach to defeat Hunter-Gatherer enemy, but here in Neanderthal Valley we do. This mean sacrifice, something you not familiar with, as you “tool-making” warriors who use spear and arrow to kill deer and bear and eat for you and the lazy. Stop trying to sabotage our fight for cave and not support our slope-headed thinking. We need stay in it to win it.
The point is, we have been at war many times in the past without the President attempting to unilaterally take power that neither the Constitution, Congress or the American people have been authorize him to use.
Stop using your stomach and use your head. It is only because the American public seemed so easily confused as to who our enemy was that we were dragged in to the wrong war in the first place. If you consider that it is Obama who is taking the discussion back to where the real war on terror should have been concentrated in the first place, you could not have gotten it more wrong.
Seriously, who do you think is making a sacrifice with this war? The rich? Who is dying, who are the ones losing their sons and daughters? Who is the one taking your hard earned money and where is it going? Is this Republican administration spending any less than the last Democratic adminstration? Is there any moral difference between spending tax money and spending money that has yet to be taxed? Both are the same but only one is intentionally deceptive. The only people who have been asked to sacrifice are the lowest levels of the military and the future taxpayes.
Four years ago it was still possible to gin up some ridicule for Kerry when he said Iraq was the wrong war at the wrong time. The staying-in-Iraq-is-the-only-way-to-support-our-troops doesn’t fool nearly enough people anymore. Hell, even the white House is trying to find a way to say “mission accomplished” again just because they have to get out and save face. You are so four years ago. Get with the meme.
Keep rubbin’ in that cheetoh dust, Gary. I’ll be coming to visit any day now.
With you fascist liberals, its all about the cheap shots re: spelling and grammar, not about the content, message and even taking some time to analyze the deeper meaning. When a submit a column online, there is as, you know, a looser convention of spelling and grammar. Hours, hundreds, are placed into editing and not all of them, Sadly No, get diverted to each and every little post.
There are few liberals, especially here, who a re willing to sacrifice to fight the threats our country faces. Your talk is cheap. Your words are filled with hatred, but ultimately pointless.
mako rojo-
What you need to realize is that your own inner misogyny and twisted patriarchial denial of freedom for the heartland of Appalchia, that true blue Reagan Democrat lifeblood of the party and of this country, is what’s blinding you to the fact that your beloved precious, the Obambi, will bring you neither victory nor treasure, but rather, the sound of my boots walking to another party, not to mention the boots of millions and millions of Hillary supporters who would rather leave the Democrat way than to elect an unqualified Obambi.
Hey K-Lo. How much blood have you and your buddies over there spilled?
mikey
When a submit a column online, there is as, you know, a looser convention of spelling and grammar.
…clearly.
Heh indeedily doodily ding dong diddily, this thread has run its course.
The fact is, we have finally regained the caves from the Cro-lieberals, and seized the last of the mutated algae manufacturing plants. The heartland has prevailed, and now we can hide from the sun’s deathrays for the few years remaining before all carbon-based life forms are extremeinated on earth.
Suk it, lieberals!
K-Lo:
Of course! He’s obviously way way out of his league.
Tenure must be pretty easy to get up there at UW. Somewhere, Bucky Badger is weeping.
service…
Ms. Lopez, how can you ask us to address the “deeper meaning” of your comments about the way you watched an Obama speech without listening to it and deduced that McCain would make a better Commander-in-Chief because of it? No, I’m serious, the whole premise was that you were relating your superficial impression and I, for one, took you at your premise. We can read “there’s there there” as a legitimate, stream of consciousness, expression how your own impression, regardless of the punctuation problems. But you could not have used a phrase that signified vagueness or avoided any specifics to your impression if you tried. Now you’re bothered that your comments weren’t understood at some deeper level? I’m more convinced than ever that when you start out you have no idea what you want to say.Once upon a time when I cranked out political speech and took a paycheck for it, I was told if I made typos I would be fired. Whatever internet tradition you believe changes the standards for professionals when they write in different format, but I call bullshit on that one. They’re your mistakes, own ’em.
McCain may not rally a trial,
Send him to the Hague and see how well he manages.
Well what there “there” is their is not rallying the trail. If you’re scuzzy little liebrel brains could talk that is. Which of course they cant. My mistakes are not my own, take my word for it, bucko. It is clear two me that often when one makes a professional statement, such as my own is, then that’s for others to decide. Instead you chose to disregard whatever I said. That what ever matters is the b**llshi* that is irregardlessly what it is that I am implying, and that you are imferring from my comments at my own blog. This is so typical of the left that they can’t make heads or tales of what is plainly in front of there noses but, rather would prefer to stab someone in the back in front, of her face. So true.
Psst, mako: pretty much every conservative voice over here is a troll. Conserve your energy.
thing is, Brandi, when I was parody trolling over here, I wrote what I thought were way over the top shorters of the subject article. There was some debate about whether I was real, troll or parody troll. I mean, I tried to be absurd and it failed if it wasn’t obvious. So I don’t know anymore. I like satire, but on some days it feels like cutting corners to use it as critique. Ok Ok, I know that satire as critique is the sine non qua of S,N but I do what I gotta do, y’know. Otherwise, head, splodie. I appreciate your concern.
So I don’t know anymore.
That’s ok, neither do we.
We’re through the looking-glass here, mako.
Gary, for the last damned time, I DO support the troops. In fact, I walk daily to the nearest park/restaurant to CENTCOM here in Tampa and pick up meal tabs for them when I can since they are serving and I’m not. This doesn’t mean I want them to be blown to little pieces in Iraq where I don’t think we should be in the 1st place.
Then again, you probably feel no moral outrage over GHWBush promising to back the Shiite rebellion way back in his Presidency and then leaving them to hang.
Support the troops.
The secret if you’re serving in a combat zone is to get to know three groups of dudes.
Specops, airdales and medics. The green beanies always had plenty of good speed, fresh fruit and whiskey. Airdales can get anything and bring it anywhere, from beer to fuck books to kickass weed. Medics have pills. Darvon and shit like that.
There you go! Your tour will go by in a bloodstained blur….
mikey