I have found that the most surefire way to get depressed about the current state of our political culture is to go back and read the Lincoln/Douglas debates. That shit would be too highbrow for CSPAN nowadays.

Digby peaks “peeks.”

It really is pathetic. Better to tear down someone else for being an “elitist” than like, learn stuff and improve yourself. That’s hard! Fat and stupid is the only way to go through life!

If you TRULY love America that is.

I still don’t understand how encouraging young people to learn another language (like German, Mandarin or Arabic) will turn the the USA into the United States of Aztlan.

Hey, that’s elitist BITCH, you sexist liebrul.

I think it’s even worse than pure anti-intellectualism on the part of the WATB detractors, since the issue is learning non-Amurrican languages when we should really be forcing everyone to be just like us.

So, it’s anti-intellectualism with a heapin’ helpin’ of down-home exceptionalism and xenophobia.

My guess is that the real core of the problem is that Obama’s a liberal, so anything he suggests must be bad. The attack is easy this time around because his idea pushes some serious cracker buttons. I’m afraid his have-a-beer-withability has taken a major bruising over this one.

Of course, the Republicans would likely counter with a Boss Hogg-Lloyd Christmas ticket, so what’s the damn point.

What do you mean “would”? The Bush Jr. phenomenon probably couldn’t have gotten much more anti-intellectual. I don’t recall them openly recommending capital punishment for complete sentences, but I wouldn’t have been surprised by this either.

*Fixed to appease the usage police.

Usage police? Why does spelling get Nazis and Knowing What Word Goes Where only get the doughnut patrol?

Maybe someone older than I can correct me, but wasn’t Latin a required class, some decades ago, for many high school students in America?

I heard that Harry Truman was told to keep the fact that he played piano, for pleasure, under his hat*, lest the rubes think he was some kind of longhair.

Anyone know when the anti-intelligence trend started? FDR was a blue blood, but he got in (4 times). Ike was obviously educated (he was president of Columbia University, fercryinoutloud), as well as a genuine hero. JFK, another East Coast patrician and war hero. Was it the confluence of LBJ and the 60s, with all those hippies wasting their parents’ school fees on dope and that awful music?

And that ad for HotRants: is that Day by Day artwork? Yuck.

* heh, Harry was a haberdasher . . .

Not so much LBJ as LBJ-inspired: Nixon’ southern strategy required courting of the idiot vote, where before I don’t think it was particularly sought out (with Dixie Democrats taking the inbred vote by default). And I say this as a native Southerner, and hillbilly besides.

Combine courting-the-idiot-vote with Third Awakening Crackervangelism (with it’s preacher-told-me-to-vote-so-and-so drones) and mass-media, and voila, 21st Century political America, where idiocy is the coin of the realm. It fuels cracker spitefulness with corporate keep-the-masses-down funding, with oodles of wingnut welfare for the Kristols and Broders and especially that Poster Boy of Nepotism, the Doughy Pantload himself.

Was it the confluence of LBJ and the 60s, with all those hippies wasting their parents’ school fees on dope and that awful music?

That was also about the time Alabama Gov. George Wallace started running around yelling about “pointy-headed intellectuals.” But even before that was the derision of Adlai Stevenson as an “egghead.”

Ripley: Yes.

If candidates choose to dumb themselves down or pander to people of the Dumbed-Down Party, that’s their business. Why they would do it eludes me. It used to be one of the set pieces of speechamalarizing by political blowhards that electing them would ensure that the voters’ kids would be better off than their elders. How this is to be accomplished by celebrating ignorance: it is a mystery.

Okay, but can’t Obama just cash in on the derision? Quote the “elitist” comments and reply with exactly what everyone here says above?

E.g., “I called for kids to learn Spanish. Now, apparently there are those in the Republican Party who either think that our kids are too stupid to learn Spanish, or that Spanish isn’t worth learning. If you think either of those things, you’re wrong. Period.”

Right?

The fact is, stupid is as stupid does. The liberals have done stupid things to our country, but theyr think they are smart. Here in the heartland, we don’t ned to speak anything but English and worship anyone but Jesus.

So we noticed Gary.

9/11 changed everything.

So let me see if get this now.

Obama makes a perfectly reasonable comment about the benefits of knowing a second language.

A group that panders to the racist, stupid 23%ers twists his words to pander to the racist, stupid 23%ers.

The Obama camp then expresses support for forcing others to speak English.

Who is it exactly who thinks the American people are stupid?

Wow, that straw man is really taking a beating here.*

Hispanics are flooding into this country, contrary to the will of the people and in violation of national law. Neither political party, it must be said, has the will or the nerve to do anything serious about this.

I actually give Obama credit on this one. “Hey, proles, just learn Spanish” is unnerving – thus the uproar – but it does reveal precisely what he’s thinking; McCain is also bootlicking La Raza but is doing so with nowhere near Obama’s candor. This one is a push.

* Well, not really, this being the home of teh funny snark and all.

Da Troof is right to keep his stupidity in only one language, so fewer people are exposed to it.

As someone once observed, nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

I’m planning to learn Spanish just to mock wingnuts in two languages. Isn’t everybody?

All I ever needed to know how to spell was Jesus, USA, and 9/11.

OMG, the Hispanics are over-running the border! La Raza has infiltrated the govmint! Quick, all xenophobes to the ramparts!!

Seriously, learning to speak Spanish is more than a bit different from sneaking into the county to work it seems to me.

As to the Obama camp’s “point”, my great-grandparents became US citizens (as did thousands upon thousands of others) with barely functional English skills. No one suggested (that I’m aware of) that there needed to be some Jim Crow citizenship barriers placed against white Protestant Germans. They may in reality have been tools of the Deutsch-Amerikanischer Volksbund but I was led to believe they were just farmers trying to make a living in their adopted homeland.

And for the record, my grandmother spoke German to her parents at home but after they died she quickly forgot. Sadly my mother and I only speak English.

Thank god we beat the odds and assimilated, eh?

Neither political party, it must be said, has the will or the nerve to do anything serious about this.

I’m just wondering what “to do anything serious” means in this context. For all solutions proposed by the “secure the border”-types I’ve heard (deport ’em all, deploy the army, build a wall) involve spend ridiculous sums of money for little (if any) effect.

Yep.

I certainly want the President of the United States to be a blue collar, beer drinking, uneducated farter with a worldview that doesn’t extend past the baptist church just outside the holler, stains on his shirt and none of that useless book learnin that only poisons his understanding of scripture.

Uh huh. That’s the way forward in the twentyfirst century.

You can tell because it’s the same in all those other countries…

mikey

Digby peaks peeks echa una mirada rápida al alma…

De nada.

Wow.

You’d think if conservatives had any REAL ammo against Obama, they’d use it.

So far, all they have is gibberish that is either untrue (Obama the secret Muslim), irrelevant (his former preacher made politically incorrect comments that made conservatives pretend their panties were in a bunch) or both (Michelle Obama said ‘whitey’! ZOMG! What reason does SHE have to ever be mad at ‘whitey’?)

So now the bed-wetters and whiners (Hi, Troof!) are at it again with the same old nonsense. Obama didn’t say anyone should be forced to learn Spanish (though I expect to see that written as gospel in Larry Elder’s column this week and in Mallard Fillmore about a month from now) and what he DID say – in essence, that it wouldn’t hurt America if more of its people knew a little bit more about the world they want to drop bombs on and build fences around – makes perfect sense.

Except to the bed-wetters and the whiners.

Are there any REAL men left in the conservative movement? Better toe the conservative line – no matter how nonsensical it is – or Ann Coulter might call you a faggot. It would be nice to see just one conservative voice – just one! – manly enough to stand up to Ann Coulter and her treasonous and damaging gibberish.

Personally I am hoping that them hispanics DO take over. Maybe then we can get a decent mexican restaurant in NYC.

BTW I thought Obama was using spanish as an example of a second language to learn.
Seems to me some sort of spicy Szechwan wold be more appropriate.

Maybe the Democrats should just nominate Larry the Cable Guy next time to avoid these sorts of controversies in the future.

No, no. Dear sweet bleeding Jesus, no.

America is the country where a centimillionaire who owns six mansions and a private jet gets away with calling his opponent “an elitist.”

A little off-topic, but does anyone else remember when we were praying for a Giuliani candidacy or a Huckabee candidacy or a Romney candidacy or a Thompson candidacy because we thought McCain was their best choice?

What a freakin’ clown show.

(For the record, I still believe McCain was their best choice. But the margin has narrowed considerably.)

Maybe the Democrats should just nominate Larry the Cable Guy next time to avoid these sorts of controversies in the future.

Well, his whole shtick is completely put on – he’s an upper-middle-class kid from a Tampa suburb, or something like that – so that might be apropo. “Who among us doesn’t love NASCAR” and Huntin’ With John Kerry and so forth.

And as far as Our National Dumbness goes, I don’t know if it’s so much dumbness as laziness. Most of us just can’t be assed to be something other than a totally clueless and willfully ignorant moron (like this “Truth” character, fer instance) unless it’s about football and “American Idol”. It’s nothing new, really – Cassius had a lean, hungry look from thinking too much, they say – but since most of us no longer spend all our time growing our food and not trying to get ate by bears, we’ve got the time to notice how fucking stupid we are.

Maybe, I dunno.

I still don’t understand how encouraging young people to learn another language (like German, Mandarin or Arabic) will turn the the USA into the United States of Aztlan. – His Grace

When American school kids take foreign languages, they get to realize how many stupid, irregular verbs, spellings, etc., English has. When they learn that other languages are far more straightforward in their grammar and orthography than is English, they will abandon English and start campaigning for the USA to change itself into the United States of Aztlan or the Unitischer Landen fun Sprechen die Moma Loshen and then we’d have to be all Catholic or Jewish or something like that. And not eating meat on Fridays during Lent will just ruin our civilization … and let’s not forget that eating pork is good for the environment.

See, teaching kids foreign languages is bad for the environment. Why do elitist liberals hate the environment?

Paul @ 18:22 “Anyone know when the anti-intelligence trend started?”

Read Susan Jacoby’s “The Age of American Unreason”. We have a long and undistinguished history of anti-intellectualism and just plain old suspicion of ANY education dating from the founding of the country. This is nothing new.

Maybe then we can get a decent mexican restaurant in NYC. – bklyn

NYCers just need to stop treating NJ as if it were some distant, foreign land full of social inferiors.

Good, authentic Mexican (and Hungarian) food is only a train ride away in New Brunswick.

Of course, one time a nice, single Jewish girl from Queens decided to take a train ride to a Jewish singles’ event in NJ (where, for women, “the odds are good but the goods are odd”), and she ended up getting married to me (the “odd good” she met at said singles’ event). So maybe NYers have good reason to not cross that river?

Hoosier X,

I was praying for a Romney candidacy because (1) I thought Romney would be easier to beat than McCain and (2) I actually thought that if, Hashem forbid, the GOoPer would win in Nov that Romney might actually make a vaguely decent President.

At the very least, Romney would start pouring money into the sciences (my business) that way we’d produce some results that could get stolen by Big Pharma. OTOH, McCain is such an unreconstructed member of the pre-Victorian gentry that he thinks even an honest day’s work is debasing and I’d hate to have to come to know what he thinks of the science racket … I doubt that McCain would be keen on giving money to scientists to discover things.

BTW — is it just me or does John McCain (with that smile) look like T.J. from the comic strip “Luann”, except 50 years older?

When they learn that other languages are far more straightforward in their grammar and orthography than is English, they will abandon English and start campaigning for the USA to change itself into the United States of Aztlan or the Unitischer Landen fun Sprechen die Moma Loshen and then we’d have to be all Catholic or Jewish or something like that

If the average conservative could come up with something this cogent and sensible, I believe I could develop a tiny semblance of respect for their logical powers that would enable me to hide enough of my disgust that I could actually engage in face-to-face encounters without looking like I’m about to vomit.

I’ve little doubt this would help me in my interpersonal disussions with conservatives.

The quality of thinking here gives the writer about ten IQ points on George Will.

DAS:

When I was reading the anecdote above, I thought the Jewish girl from Queens was gonna end up marrying Jon Bon Jovi.

But your way is cool too…

mikey

And speaking of stupid, y’all take a gander at Balloon Juice or Lawyers, Guns * Money or TBogg and see the latest idiocy coming out of No Quarter.

Ho-lee shit. As my Uncle Joel used to say, “Boy, you’re gonna wear yourself out bein’ that stupid. You can’t be that dumb by accident, so you must be tryin’ too hard.”

Ripley said,

Maybe someone older than I can correct me, but wasn’t Latin a required class, some decades ago, for many high school students in America?

It was when my mom (a member of the Greatest Generation ®) was in high school. When I was in boomer high school, two years of a “foreign language” was required (and Latin was one choice).

And now, in the arts magnet middle school my daughter attends, in the underachieving urban hell of Oakland, requires a foreign language every year.

mikey,

Wouldn’t it be funny if I were actually Jon Bon Jovi?

Actually, though, IIRC (and confirmed by wikipedia) Jon Bon Jovi ended up marrying his HS sweetheart, presumably not a girl from Queens.

It would be funnier if the Jewish girl from NYC was Jon Bon Jovi.

A little off-topic, but does anyone else remember when we were praying for a Giuliani candidacy or a Huckabee candidacy or a Romney candidacy or a Thompson candidacy because we thought McCain was their best choice?

What a freakin’ clown show.

The video ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© linked to in the Shorter Warner Todd Huston thread is pathetic. Not only does he not remember his voting record on family planning (kind of an important topic for a lot of voters, I would think), he can’t even come up with a brief platitude that would sort of answer the question.

Anyone know when the anti-intelligence trend started?

Richard Hofstadter’s work is still useful on this. Way back, he argues, way, way back.

General rule of thumb:

If your life plans include any chance whatsoever of becoming rich and famous, hold off on marrying your HS sweetheart.

I mean, that’s what Pam Andersen is for, right?

mikey

Of course, the Republicans would likely counter with a Boss Hogg-Lloyd Christmas ticket, so what’s the damn point.

Ironically enough, Sorrell Booke (Boss Hogg) was a smart dude who taught himself five languages, including Russian and Japanese, just for fun. Went to Columbia and Yale. Hell, he wasn’t even fat; he had to wear a fat suit while filming. Nope, he wouldn’t be any good for them.

I was so mad when Pam Anderson married my high school sweetheart.

Hoosier X, the case against Obama is as follows:

1 – He plans on raising taxes
2 – He plans on enforcing protectionist policies
3 – He plans on backing down the Bush policy of pursuing terrorists all over the world, which has resulted in precisely 0 attacks on the US mainland since 2001.

Now all three of these are standard liberal fayre; if you support them, you generally vote Democrat and if not, you generally don’t. In addition, Obama has some serious personal problems, to wit:

4 – His wife is stridently anti-white
5 – His church is stridently anti-white
6 – He has connections to a convicted felon (Rezko)
7 – He has connections to a unconvicted terrorist (Ayers)

This flap about the languages reveals a side of Obama he has been at no pains to conceal, namely his disdain for the issues that Americans without his advantages face. Unrestrained illegal immigration is a fact and is causing certain parts of this country enormous problems; Obama is insulated from these problems, and makes no bones about it. In fairness, so are the Republican elite, and so no one is doing anything about it.

precisely 0 attacks

ANTHRAX

Now shut the fuck up.

NYCers just need to stop treating NJ as if it were some distant, foreign land full of social inferiors.

They only do that because nothing outside NYC actually exists.

ANTHRAX

Yup. And don’t forget the Ignignokt Scare and that group of goofballs who brought sprinkler parts to an airport.

How can America pay for a war without taxing people?

Thank you, Troof, for providing more examples of the two types of conservative criticisms of Barack Obama. If you hear anymore conservative nonsense about Obama, bring it right over so we can all have a laugh at conservatives and their witless flailing.

And don’t forget to send those to Mallard Fillmore. I hear he pays $10 if he uses your talking point. That will get you two, uh, 1.8, uh 1.6 gallons of gas for your Hummer.

his disdain for the issues that Americans without his advantages face

You know, this kind of pants-on-fire lie would be freaking hilarious if it didn’t, you know, actually work.

I must admit that I am sometimes embarrassed by the poor showing of my fellow conservatives in many – to be honest, most – political discussions.

But I take solace knowing that liberals are much better educated and much better informed and thus they have the edge in these discussions. If conservatives would take the time, they would be just as well informed on the issues and just as persuasive.

However, conservatives don’t have as much time to be as well informed because we are the ones doing the work and being productive and making America great.

(I wonder what’s on the Sci-Fi Channel tonight.)

Liberals. Hmf.

4 – His wife is stridently anti-white

Why do you say that? What has she said that makes you say that as if it were fact? What does it even mean? And even if it were true amd actually means something, what do you really think it’ll mean when Obama becomes president? Do you seriously, seriously think that come November 3rd, honkies across the land will be herded into fenced-in ghettos and forced to listen to Funkadelic and Labelle until our booties loosen up?

Do you even know any black people? Are you that terrified of the average African-American? How much does it suck to be you?

The fake troll calling itself “the truth” presents a post that brings into stark clarity the fact that the repubs have absolutely NOTHING to use against Obama.

Every statement he makes is an easily established falsehood. The do not have a singe honest issue to present. They have to lie. The problem is, in the age of websites and youtube, the lies are so easily debunked.

“Truth”, I know you’re a fake troll, as are all the idiots who post right wing stupidity on this board for some kind of weird OCD reason that I can’t understand, but I still smile when I think about the sound of “President Barack Hussein Obama”.

Suck. On. It….

mikey

6 – He has connections to a convicted felon (Rezko)
7 – He has connections to a unconvicted terrorist (Ayers)

You posted June 12: “The Ayers “connection” seems to be little more than guilt by association; unfortunately for Obama, though, people seem to have a visceral reaction to Bombing Bill. Ayers is a repulsive little psychopath but if you liberals want to defend him you can have him.

The Rezko connection definitely taints Obama, and gives the Republicans a chance to portray Obama as a typical sleazy Chicago politician, which, of course, he is. Obama can throw the Keating Five back in McCain’s face; my sense is that neither charge will stick very hard to either candidate.”

Somebody is stridently anti-consistency but stridently pro-making shit up.

Hoosier X, I don’t see much of an argument against my criticisms against Obama. Feel free to vote for him, just don’t be surprised by how many of your fellow citizens don’t.

Speaking of talking points, I’ve been surprised how effective discussing that very point about terrrorism has been with on-the-fence people. It is working like a charm, but then again it has the advantage of being true.

Oh, and the anthrax attacks happened in 2001. Unless, of course, those comments were intended to be teh funny. You kids are a little out of practice in the summer; the professors aren’t around to tell you what to think and you get a little sloppy.

Unrestrained illegal immigration is a fact and is causing certain parts of this country enormous problems; Obama is insulated from these problems, and makes no bones about it.

I am John McCain’s economic advisor, and I approve this whining.

How can America pay for a war without taxing people?

I think the main idea is to let the Military Industrial Complex “trickle down” on everybody.

You know, with a little planning, vision, and a big enough fucking war, everybody in America could make a nice living…

I wish I’d thought of this back in my school days.

“Son, it would be a good idea if you started taking a foreign language next semester.”

“WHAT? Mom, dad, what’s next? Have me read ‘Das Kapital’? Please explain to me why a patriotic American boy would be interested in any language other than English. Sheesh. [As my parents skulk into the next room in shame I pick up the phone and start dialing] Hello, FBI? I’d like to report a pair of possible communist infiltrators…”

The Twit said:
the anthrax attacks happened in 2001

Must be hard having to pretend ALL the time.

Nelson, weren’t you claiming earlier that you weren’t listening to me? If you have a real criticism or comment to make on my points, go right ahead. Just pretending they aren’t real works for liberals, since they walk in unthinking lockstep, but in the real world those arguments go a long way.

Tigris, nice to know you’re paying attention. Ayers is a repulsive little sociopath; every time you liberals stick up for him you damage your cause a little more. I don’t think it’s entirely fair but people do associate Obama with him. Rezko is more obscure and won’t stick even though it should. How is that inconsistent with noting that these are negatives for Obama?

I still can’t figure out why al-Qaeda would launch another major attack on American soil when Bush foreign policy is exactly what they want.

Maybe you can explain that, Gramps?

I suspect that the people who are agreeing with you about Obama are just nodding politely and looking at their watches and thinking about the high price of gas and are worried about losing their homes or concerned for their loved ones overseas in the wasteful Republican War.

I’ll get off your lawn now, Pops.

By the way, here is the killer quote from Obama:

“I don’t understand when people are going around worrying about, “we need to have Engilsh only”. They want to pass a law “we want just English only”. I agree that imigrants should learn English. I agree with that. But understand this instead about wondering whether imigrants learn English, they’ll learn English, you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish.”

Liberals, do you still want to claim that this is about education in general, rather than about Latino immigration?

When you have universities dumbing down entrance requirements to accommodate illiterate whining assholes who object to writing high school exams, you know the culture’s heading for hell in a handbasket. Of course, they are only reducing the entrance requirements because they need the cash the neoconservative governments no longer supply. (Simon Fraser university will now only require high school graduation and successful completion of one provincial Grade 12 exam: English 12 (or Language Arts 12) I hope these students are planning on pursuing engineering or brain surgery.)

aren’t planning, not “are planning”

Hoosier X says

suspect that the people who are agreeing with you about Obama are just nodding politely and looking at their watches and thinking about the high price of gas and are worried about losing their homes or concerned for their loved ones overseas in the wasteful Republican War.

Ah, you wish, my dear Hoosier X. People tend to respond thoughtfully and really do follow the argument. See, liberals, you think grad students and assistant professors are the only ones paying attention, but they are not. You underestimate Americans at your own cost; you were shocked in November 2004 and you’re going to be shocked again.

So…Obama wants Latino immigrants to take over America? Wouldn’t that piss off his wife, or is she supposed to be just down on whitey and would be quite cool with an America controlled by brown people instead of black people so long as Mr. Charlie Gets His? Where do Asian folks figure into all this?

And when you say the future first lady is stridently “anti-white”, well, which white folk is she stridently anti? I mean, I know a lot of white people who are stridently anti-redneck and I myself am strident anti-white-biggoted-dumbass. Lot of folks don’t think Jews are white folks, too. Hell, there’s some who’ll still argue that your Eastern European honky still isn’t quite “the right kind of people”.

“…You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual. We should have every child speaking more than one language.”

Liberals, do you still want to claim that this is about education in general, rather than about Latino immigration?

Well, since I can read … yeah.

See, liberals, you think grad students and assistant professors are the only ones paying attention, but they are not.

Do we think that? Or is this just another stereotpye you picked up from endless repition from political geniuses like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly?

I’ll take you seriously as soon as you say one thing that doesn’t look like warmed-over Prickly City.

Ya know, I got a cousin who married a black dude and they got three kids. Is Michelle Obama – soon to be wife of the President, mind – anti my cousins, too? Or half anti? Hey, that’d mean she’s against her husband, at least halfway! Wow, the woman is a dynamo, ain’t she? I’ve dated black women and one of my oldest friends was black (he died last year). Does Michelle hate me extra or will I get a pass when the Darkie Uprising she spearheads comes?

Further thought. I used to know a girl who’s dad was half-black/half-white and her mom was half-Vietnamese/half-Cuban. So, of course, she was clock-stoppingly gorgeous, like a statue cut out of smokey Amber with dark, brown pools for eyes and a ten-mile smile. How much does Michelle Obama hate someone like that? Just a little, tiny bit for the little, tiny white part? Reckon how much she hates Bob Barr, then?

I sure hope McCain wins. The idea makes me hard.

Oh! Are we starting! Is the mike on?

I support Obama!

Can I have my check now, Mr. Cheney.

Y’know, it doesn’t bother me in the least the things that this fake troll “the truth” spews out. I mean, I know that one out of five people still thinks bush/cheney is a great president. I accept there are some depleted uranium stupid assholes out there, and as long as their numbers are this low, it’s really not worth my concern.

But the fact that these fake trolls like “the truth” and “erik whateverthefuckhesayshisnameis” don’t hold these beliefs and instead think it’s somehow funny or interesting to spew the stupidest crap on Sadly, No! for their own (certainly not anyone else’s) amusement pisses me off hard.

It’s mostly the fact that they know that the rules here require them to be tolerated, no matter how much they lower the discourse and ruin some pretty fun and interesting threads that brings them here.

I just can’t understand what kind of defective idiot would do it more than about twice…

mikey

mikey,

I don’t know for sure that Troof is real. He seems kind of fishy. Way too articulate. But I enjoy troll-shredding, and even if he’s a total fake (a very high probability) it’s good practice.

He obviously needs the attention and I may be saving somebody’s life by giving it to him.

Nelson, how is it ruining the thread to point out that Obama was specifically addressing bilingualism in the context of Latino immigration?

You are deep in denial if you think people don’t see through this liberal bullshit. Feel free to engage in teh snark – if you can – but don’t act like we can’t see what’s really going on.

Oh, and Nelson, 59 million plus people voted to elect George W Bush in November 2004. They are all stupid or rich or racist or something, right? Or do you really think McCain is only going to get 20% of the vote? Hell, the chance to see the denial and anti-Americans that liberals indulge in is an excellent reason to be here.

‘Scool, Hoosier.

I get you.

It just boggles my tiny mind trying to understand what motivates these demented assclowns.

My opinion? None of ’em are real.

Once upon a time there was a real wingnut troll called Gary Ruppert. He’s gone, and the rest of ’em are all fake. The real ones post on their own blogs, and sometimes show up if they get tweaked hard enough to try and defend themselves, but these random idiots that all pretend to be wingnuts to satisfy some personal lack of self esteem?

Fake Trolls, each and every one….

mikey

Yup, mikey. Very desperate for the attention.

I, as a regular working joe and not an elitist who can afford four more years of Repug assholes in the executive branch, have to go to work now. Could somebody else amuse Troof for awhile? He might get restless and hurt someone if left unattended.

One is so obscure it “won’t stick,” the other is based on a logical fallacy(and frankly is also obscure and won’t stick): if they don’t have a negative effect, they’re not all that negative, are they? The only people this will resonate with are those who would never have voted for Obama in the first place and therefore embrace any and all groundless crap against him by default(e.g. you), it will have no net negative effect on votes in play. You admitted as much before, now you want to pretend these are going to be obstacles.

I encourage the sad, few remaining righties to please, please, please, bring it on, bring it all on, scream about Rezko and Ayers and Rev. Wright 24 hours a day 7 days a week, about madrassas and Soetaro, and every single thing else you can possibly think of.

I want you screaming on every corner that Barack Obama loves Bill Ayers and wants to marry him and make him our Secretary For Blowing Up Buildings & Sh*t, and how Barack Hussein Obama is going to swear in while raising the Black Power fist while swearing on the Koran, while Michelle Obama is cutting the heads of dolls representing whitey.

And then I want to watch you lose, after having done all this, after having dragged every last one of your friends out from under each and every rock you can find, after having vomited every ounce of freakish slime your system can muster, so that you will have known that you pulled out every stop, you did every last thing you knew to do from the right wing playbook, and you still lost.

Engaging trolls now, are we?
[sigh]
There goes the thread, and a S,N thread is a terrible thing to waste.

Why are all you people using so many words? Goodthink American neednot.

I feel a fisking coming on…

The Truth (sic) sez:

Hoosier X, the case against Obama is as follows:

1 – He plans on raising taxes

No, he plans on letting the disasterous tax cuts pushed by Bush in a time of war to expire. It seems to be that the country during the 1990s experienced a time of great economic expansion under Clinton’s tax policies, and a lot of people got rich while the not-rich still did better than before. And we had a budget surplus.

2 – He plans on enforcing protectionist policies

You mean by not kowtowing to endless expansion of Bush’s “free trade” policies that resulted in a massive loss of jobs and the enrichment of those dirty commies in China?

3 – He plans on backing down the Bush policy of pursuing terrorists all over the world, which has resulted in precisely 0 attacks on the US mainland since 2001.

Anthrax? Ring a bell?

His policy of “pursuing terrorists” has resulted in the creation of more terrorists by an exponential factor. There were no terrorists in Iraq before Bush, to cite but one example. That, and his “policy” has all but bankrupted the country and is unsustainable. So we’d better start looking at another way to accomplish the goal.

Now all three of these are standard liberal fayre; if you support them, you generally vote Democrat and if not, you generally don’t. In addition, Obama has some serious personal problems, to wit:

4 – His wife is stridently anti-white

Got any proof? What, are we talking about the non-existent “whitey” video? Since when did a non-existent video become “truth”?

5 – His church is stridently anti-white

Not his church anymore.

6 – He has connections to a convicted felon (Rezko)

Does the Keating Five ring any bells? McCain was a lot more connected to Charles Keating, but that doesn’t seem to matter to you.

7 – He has connections to a unconvicted terrorist (Ayers)

An “unconvicted” anything is no proof of anything.

This flap about the languages reveals a side of Obama he has been at no pains to conceal, namely his disdain for the issues that Americans without his advantages face.

What in the hell does that even mean? What “issues” are we talking about? Job loss? Poverty? Lack of health care? What?

Unrestrained illegal immigration is a fact

Yeah, those guys in the Border Patrol don’t restrain anything, in fact they give border crashing Mexicans a pat on the back and send them on their way.

and is causing certain parts of this country enormous problems; Obama is insulated from these problems, and makes no bones about it.

I think job loss is far more connected to goods and services being produced in other countries by citizens of those countries, not by illegal immigrants here. If trade to China (a communist, child-labor, forced abortion dictatorship) were blocked, Wal-Mart would go belly up.

In fairness, so are the Republican elite, and so no one is doing anything about it.

Nice to know you’re an equal opportunity clueless idiot.

Once upon a time there was a real wingnut troll called Gary Ruppert. He’s gone, and the rest of ‘em are all fake.

I take exemption to that! Hear in The Heartland, we live in G*d’s likeness, white and proud, unlike you LIE-bruls. When President-For-Life George Willard Bush is elected, he will take this nation into a new era of war against the Islamosexuals and the rest of you who struggle against the USA of America. Those of you who whine about the so-called loss of your constitution rights will be put into communist prisons and tortured until you finally believe in the American way of life, which is more important to protect than your precious “constitution”.

George Willard Bush

Isn’t that a Borat bit?

Rugged, you’re not a troll, you’re more like a pet. Why, we even got you a scratching post shaped like a pelican and a litter box made by the Mason jar company!

Sometimes you just have to wonder:
Do movies reflect real life, or shape it?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

[…] Agagooga wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt… that Barack Obama loves Bill Ayers and wants to marry him and make him our Secretary For Blowing Up Buildings & Sh*t, and how Barack Hussein Obama is going to swear in while raising the Black Power fist while swearing on the Koran, … […]

Yo digby! Isn’t English a foreign language?

Jorge Arbusto=Cabeza de mierda

Ricardo Cheney te gusta mucho come caca

[…] on Our national dumbness by El Cid Agagooga wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt… that Barack Obama loves Bill […]

Apparently I anticipated the upcoming cover of the New Yorker, which shows Michelle Obama in Black Panther / Afro garb fist-bumping Muslim-dressed Barack Hussein Obama in the Oval Office next to a portrait of Osama bin Laden.

They thought it would help convey a sense of satire to go with an article on how the right will exploit groundless fear to attack Obama.

Thanks, witty urbane New Yorker types! You guyz ar awsum!

He plans on backing down the Bush policy of pursuing terrorists all over the world, which has resulted in precisely 0 attacks on the US mainland since 2001.

Even discounting the anthrax attacks, this is a particularly stupid meme.

There were eight years between WTC attacks. 2001+8 = 2009.

So it seems to me that Bush still has a year to go before he equals Bill Clinton’s record, much less get a gold star for his “effectiveness”.

These kind of attacks take time to put in place. The assumption that it’s something these Bronze Age cretins can put together over a weekend is ridiculous.

Only Chicken Little bed-wetters would have reason to think George has done anything all that special.

LittlePig, you may think it’s a stupid meme but it resonates very strongly with people. Clinton let terrorism built and we got smacked – Bush has pursued the evil Islamic terrorists all over the world, killing an awful lot of them. I know which policy I prefer, and for a great many Americans I suspect national security will trump… er… what exactly?

I mean, what exactly does Obama stand for? No one has seriously disputed that Obama means to raise taxes, impose protectionist policies, and scale back the pursuit of terrorists. Joe Max ticked through these points confirming each one – thanks, Joe Max!

Let’s face it, you liberals are pissed off because I came into this thread and showed you that you were attacking a straw man, and that Obama was specifically referencing Latino immigration when he was talking about bilingualism. Obfuscate all you want – look it up, Nelson – but that’s what he was doing. He’s been called on it, too, liberals.

Oh, and cn I haz teh funny now please?

“I can’t be bothered to swat at flies.”

“Ok, you’ve covered your asses on this.”

Yeah, Troof is a particularly lame fake troll. Any average dimwitted conservative can do better than that.

Troof’s heart isn’t in it.

Man, it just took me forever to read this thread and I gotta say, The Truth is mad boring, yo.

Yeah.

Troof says stuff like:

See, liberals, you think grad students and assistant professors are the only ones paying attention, but they are not.

and then expects honest decent people to take him seriously.

Reminds me of other great conservative thinkers like Thomas Sowell, Millard Fillmore and George Will.

I’m lost. What do grad students and assistant professors have to do with anything?

What do grad students and assistant professors have to do with anything?

They are the homosexual muslim fifth column.

Are we going to have to learn more than Mas cerveza, por favor and ¿Donde está el sanitario?

[…] on Our national dumbness by My new WordPress MU Site … El Cid wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptAgagooga wrote an interesting post […]

[…] Ric Caric wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptI mean, what exactly does Obama stand for? No one has seriously disputed that Obama means to raise taxes, impose protectionist policies, and scale back the pursuit of terrorists. Joe Max ticked through these points confirming each one … Read the rest of this great post here […]

I’m lost. What do grad students and assistant professors have to do with anything?

That’s a very good question.

Troof?

(Although I doubt he’ll be any better at clearing away the confusion about this talking point than he has been with any of his gibberish.)

Paul Pierce called — he wants his name back.

We’ve moved on.

Don’t tell the truth.

Umm, I mean, I’m not encouraging you guys to lie.

I’m suggesting that you don’t tell the truth about where we are.

Erm, Dammit, I mean the truth shouldn’t be told…

Aw fuck. I didn’t name the assclown.

We’re all one thread up…..

mikey

idiocracy isnt a movie, its prophecy.

yes, no americans have been killed in a terrorist attack here in the homeland since the anthrax cases most certainly due to all the hardwork the ultra competent bushco, TSA, and homeland security are doing. its a very logical conclusion.

thank you “the truth” for returning us to the reason this post was made in the first place, our national dumbness.

personally i’ve been working my ass off making sure no giant asteroids have crashed into the earth and none have. please send all credit my way.

Dare one tell TruthBorg that it was BUSH who’s piled up the higher heap of American corpses via domestic terrorism, by a factor of hundreds, versus Clinton – or that it was GOP swine yelping “Wag The Dog” that kept him from the authorization necessary to smoke bin Laden, way back in the late 1990s? Or that he’s totally caved to bin Laden’s main demand (US military out of Saudi Arabia), whilst getting thousands of Americans killed invading the wrong fucking country & giving Al-Quaeda a recruitment freebie in Iraq, right when they needed it the most? Or that he’s on the record as saying he just doesn’t give a flying fuck about EVER getting bin Laden, over & over & over again? Yeah, that Bush – what a fucking hero … he gave up golf for Da Troopz, y’know!

“The Truth” is about as truthful as the average “miracle-patch” infomercial pimp on Cable TeeVee at 4 AM. Oh what sweet irony that it leaves its psychic dung in a thread about anti-intellectualism … one myopic substance-challenged talking-point after another, along with the obligatory “you kids” crap. Pack it in, asshat. Your allergy to reality is showing.

Why do pols go after the lowest common denominator? That great American, Huckleberry Finn, may have said it best: “Hain’t we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain’t that a big enough majority in any town?”

Anyone here? Or did Teh Troof empty the room?

Bush has pursued the evil Islamic terrorists all over the world,

Exhibit 1: Osama bin Laden, skipping gleefully around the borders of Afghanistan/Pakistan (apparently towing his dialysis machine with him).

killing an awful lot of them.

Exhibit 2: Hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi civilians. Who have friends and relatives, who are understandably pissed off with America.

Jesus squared, I don’t know which pisses me off more: that some conservatives are so damned dumb, or that some dipshit thnks it’s fun to pretend to be a damned dumb conservative. What the absolute buggeryfuck do they achieve? Does it give them a nice warm glow? Do they think they’re scoring points?

Fuckety fuckety fuckingfuckfuck.

Dare one tell TruthBorg that it was BUSH who’s piled up the higher heap of American corpses via domestic terrorism, by a factor of hundreds, versus Clinton – or that it was GOP swine yelping “Wag The Dog” that kept him from the authorization necessary to smoke bin Laden, way back in the late 1990s? Or that he’s totally caved to bin Laden’s main demand (US military out of Saudi Arabia), whilst getting thousands of Americans killed invading the wrong fucking country & giving Al-Quaeda a recruitment freebie in Iraq, right when they needed it the most? Or that he’s on the record as saying he just doesn’t give a flying fuck about EVER getting bin Laden, over & over & over again? Yeah, that Bush – what a fucking hero … he gave up golf for Da Troopz, y’know!

Yeah, anyone who treads out the tired ‘Clinton spurted all over our beloved national security’ meme is not just a fascist whore but a cheap fascist whore. They’re so easy they’ll let the Republicans charm their way into their filthy pants just by muttering glibly about bombarding darkies, never mind the fact that the primary divide in war policy between the Dems and the Repubs in the 20th century was the former backing grand, tragic military schemes and the latter backing extremely overpaid private armies slitting the throats of third-world nuns.

Reagan ran weeping at the first sign of combat his whole life from his WWII draft-dodging up to and including his presidency, in which him showing a precursor to Hezbollah America’s yellow underbelly arguably spawned modern global terrorism – and the Republican whores continue to drop trou for his rotting corpse, weeping bravely over his military turgidity. Clinton will probably be remembered as the 21st century’s only honest, effective war president; you thanked him for it by shouting ‘WAG THE DOG RUBY RIDGE WACO NURRRR’ then, and your pathetic attempts to rewrite history about that just rub your faces further in the piss-stain that is right-wing politics.

You want to be a militarist, you want to be an imperial pro-American, the Democrats have been working their asses off for you for close to a century and the Republicans have been working with equal vigor to sell you like so much meat to our sworn enemies. Either drop the partisan horseshit or admit to yourself and the world that you’re just in it for the flight suit crotch and Aqua Velva.

Whore.

Hispanics are flooding into this country, contrary to the will of the people and in violation of national law. Neither political party, it must be said, has the will or the nerve to do anything serious about this.

If you were to be taken seriously on this issue, you would have briefly mentioned that mega corporations are hiring these people, which encourages them to keep coming, and that our business-friendly government looks the other way and makes only token efforts to show the buck-toothed morons like yourself that they are serious about immigration by occasionally busting a few wetbacks coming over the border, and also appears to look the other way at the utterly ridiculous vigilante movement that has assigned itself the task of “monitoring” our border by swaggering around with guns from the comfort of their lawn chairs.

But hey, a serious debate of how the immigration situation in our country got the way it was would ruffle too many feathers and doesn’t fall neatly into the right-wing frame of “it’s all the goddamn liberals’ fault,” so of course it won’t ever happen.

SHT, I actually called out McCain on this upthread. Please, children, read my posts before posting furious tear-stained “rebuttals.” I actually blame Republicans more than Democrats on the issue of immigration – at least Obama is open about his contempt for controlling our borders.

You liberals sure drop teh funny when I call you on your bullshit. Obama was clearly addressing Latino immigration with his “learn Spanish” speech – it had nothing to do with intellectualism. Your whole thread here is an attack on a straw man and I called you on it.

In this thread I also noted that the national security argument gains a lot of traction, and that I’ve noticed that to be true personally in discussions with fence-sitters. I heard a lot of foot-stomping and screaming in response, but that changes nothing. Perhaps, liberals, your strategy of living in echo chambers isn’t effective?

See you next time, liberals.

Tricky, tricky libruls. It’s all about the code words, you see.

Don’t think a suggestion to help your kids ‘learn Spanish’ is an encouragement towards developing skills that will aid us in the new globalized economy. That’s what people like George Soros want you to think!

Our kids should ‘learn Spanish’???

‘Learn’ is code for ‘hate’
‘Spanish’ is code for ‘America’.

GOOGLE IT.

Fortunately, the GOP has a plan for reducing immigration – cut it off at teh sorse! We understand teh economiks, so we know we can reduce supply by reducing demand. How? Export all teh jobs! Now teh mexicans are back where they should be – were the jobs are! No jobs in America, Mexicans! Now you have no excuses!

BTW, I can buy flag now? KThnx.

I don’t think that people should be forced to learn. Do I think it’s a good idea sure, for those that want to. Do I think that resources should be available? They already are.

I’ve started learning because I want to stay competitive in my field. The company I work for works with other countries, so it makes sense. This website I go to went on the latin american streets to record what people really say. And that works for me.

Well, just a tip for anyone out there that does want to learn, you can find the most common phrases natives do use at free English to Spanish translation.

For those that don’t care….big deal!