Luckily my wife and I can “car pool” to almost the same neighborhood for work, driving our cute, little green Toyota Tercel. Before we bought the Tercel a few years ago, we considered getting a mini-van (because we like camping), but decided that gas prices weren’t getting any lower. If for some reason we can’t do that. I take public transit.

Now we guffaw loudly watching the mousy yuppies filling their Hummers at the gas station and tearing at their hair. *ka-CHING*

Now we guffaw loudly watching the mousy yuppies filling their Hummers at the gas station and tearing at their hair.

That is a lovely thing, I gotta admit.

And the best part is, they probably purchased that car with credit they didn’t have, and now are unable to sell it for anything resembling comparable value.

Chumps.

You’d never guess.

I telecommute a lot, and when I actually go into the office, I take mass transit. Of course, these are options that are not readily available to everybody.

And to think — all this could have been avoided had we supported McCain & Clinton in pushing for a couple months in which a tiny percentage of the price we pay for gas in the form of a tax which goes to fund our roads and infrastructure (and the replacement money would surely come from “somewhere”, right?) was put on a “holiday”.

I steal cars for a living, so the impact is minimal. FYI, I have noticed more autos with 1/4 tank of gas or less. Is our society running on fumes?

Working 4 days a week instead of five means I fill up twice a week instead of 2-3 times. What worries me is the fuel oil that heats my house.

I steal cars for a living, so the impact is minimal.

I think that is the awesomest answer I have heard in a long time. How can I get in on that action?

I bike to the train.

Of course, I can only afford to live anywhere near a city because the gas guzzlers are out in the suburbs. That could all change very quickly.

But…but…the 5 big oil companies only made $36 billion in profits in the first quarter of 2008….

we won’t get started on big oil CEO salaries.

What?

I buy two tanks of gas a month.

Bought my very FIRST four dollar gas ($4.06/gal) yesterday.

Hundred bux a month. Pretty much same as it ever was.

Hokay, Thru being an asshole. By complete accident, in October I took a new job in the same town I live. Didn’t plan it, couldn’t have rigged it, and it won’t last, but for now? Yay.

Meantime? Either wages will HAVE to be driven up or companies aren’t going to be able to get employees to come to work. When commute eats up all your money and you can’t eat food, where exactly is the incentive to work?

mikey

surely the Clenis is to blame for this. Rat-wingers better work harder to rat-fuck Democratic primaries and nominate Hillary, so that they can spend another 20 years blaming a Clinton for whatever the GOP fucks up.

I’m coping by burning today’s Chicago Sun Times after they allowed some moron to publish a column that basically said : “Hey America, your gas is cheap! Did you know that today’s gas prices are the same as gas prices in 1922, adjusted for inflation?”

When commute eats up all your money and you can’t eat food, where exactly is the incentive to work?

Take your mind off your stomach?

‘Ho bicycles to work. I work from home.

The only time we use the car is for shopping.

Our motorcycles get around 50 m.p.g. but we tend to put a lot of miles on every weekend.

oh, and I too do the home office thing, bike whenever I can… I’ve gotten by on one tank a month before though lately due to family commitments it’s up to two tanks a month. Filled up today and my little Corolla (ha ha luxury SUV-driving yuppie scum, who’s got the last laugh NOW?) cost $40 to fill up. For me that was a shock; for others that’s the good old days.

Me? The increased price of everything from food, to shampoo to toilet paper is hitting me hard. If gas hits $10 a gallon, I can make it some since I also do a good deal of work from home, but not all. The library will simply have to help the staff — including moi — get to work.

Of course, the price of everything will keep going up, and our smallish library may no longer be able to afford much in the way of acquisitions (delivery costs); inter-library loans have already been halted. And then, patrons not in walking distance will think twice or thrice about a trip there.

This is major fuckitude.

An electric car uses 1/5 the energy of a gas-powered car, is lighter, simpler, and a lot more fun to drive.

One problem is energy density of batteries. You don’t get much range on current batteries, although things are improving. One new company to keep an eye on is EESTOR, they are developing supercapacitors, which should give you the same range on a volume basis as a gas of tank (gas is still lighter, but that does not matter, you get weight savings from other gear in an EV). Another option would be “KWIK BATTERY SWITCHAROO STATIONS” where you pull into a little station and swap the battery like you do in your camcorder. Building such little stations should be easy, all you need is an electric socket and a little fork-lifty type of thingy to swap the batteries with. Much simpler and safer than a gas station.

The other problem is how to make more electricity without totally f-ing the environment. You will need about 1,000,000 GWh extra to replace all of the U.S. gasoline consumption. That’s a quarter of the annual national electric production: significant but not impossible. One benefit is that cars can be charged at night, when there is spare capacity.

There are three viable technologies to produce this type of electricity, all of them are a bit expensive on capital cost: solar thermal, nuclear and “coal+CCS” . Wind, geothermal and PV will be smaller complimentary players.

The high capital cost comes to ~$500B to install all this extra capacity. Of course, why would a nation spend half a tril on building an independent energy infrastructure, meanwhile providing work to millions of its citizen? Silly me…

surely the Clenis is to blame for this…..

Seriously. Newt Gingrich said so in his newsletter this week. He blamed all Democrats – I don’t recall if he mentioned Clenis specifically but he usually does.

Tercel here, too. But whereas I once filled it up for $12, now it is $30 and rising.

I bike to work pretty much every day of the year. But that’s easy in the climatological paradise of Minneapolis…

[…] Brad has a post up about the alarmingly high prices that gas could reach in the future, and he asks people how they’re coping. But seriously: we need to solve this problem because it’s not getting better. I’m fortunate in that my current job allows me to work from home once or twice a week, although I’m still spending around $50 a week on gas. I’m trying to organize a group of my fellow employees to pitch in for a shuttle service that will take us from the commuter rail to the office every day; how are the rest of you coping? […]

I’m seeing more and more RV’s parked in driveways with For Sale signs on them.

I suspect a lot of them will end up as garden sheds.

I am lucky enough to live in a city with decent public transportation. I take the bus to and from work pretty much every day.

Thing is, the conversation we in america have to have about energy needs to start with what we’re NOT willing to do. First, more drilling. That serves no one but the oil companies. The problem is a combination of the cost of energy coupled with the environmental costs of burning fossil fuels. Invading and occupying oil-producing nations probably isn’t a viable solution either.

And as long as america’s economy and currency is free-falling into the tank, other nations with stronger, more sustainable economies are going to have the advantage bidding on the increasingly limited supplies.

So we have to figure out a course. If we can’t even make a plan, we have no chance of acheiving anything. We need to produce electricity for household, business and municipal consumption, and we need to find a mobility solution.

Many of the renewable solutions lend themselves to electricity production, but the mobility solution is harder. Certainly, cities can be made more efficient, and public transportation can be made more effective. But goods need to be transported. People need to go places where they are not.

The only real solution for cars is Hydrogen fuel cells. Airplanes are just going to become ridiculously expensive. Trains will have to make a comeback for moving goods.

What else? Large sailboats? Blimps? Nobody knows. That’s the thing the repubs don’t get. There are entrepreneurial opportunities inside all of this…

mikey

That makes two things that are inevitable: $12/gallon gas, and Hillary as the nominee!

Would it help if we bombed Iran?

whoah.

inter-library loans have been halted?

we are so effed.

People are starting to give me dangerous looks when I gas up my Prius.

I can’t tell if they are planning to kill me for my car, or if it is just Prius envy.

I don’t own a car. I ride my bike 8 miles (one-way) to work five days a week.

The management occasionally urges me to get a car. I’m not allowed to lock up my bike in the back rack at the front of the building because it apparently upsets the owner of the business. So I lock it up in the back.

I live in the desert. Last summer it was above 110 degrees far too often. (I ride in to work about 3 in the afternoon. The ride home at night in the summer is very comfortable. (Except when there’s fifty- or sixty-mile winds in my face.))

I’m lucky to live only 3 miles from work. I had been driving a Ford Ranger w/ lousy mileage but I just bought a scooter that I’ve been using for everything except transporting gardening materials (when you own a truck, you’re never lonely). I could bike or walk or take the bus if things get worse, but I’m in the routine of sleeping until about 30 minutes before I need to be at work and I can’t seem to break that habit. I really enjoy walking home from work so maybe I’ll start taking the bus in the morning. Bus service in the Twin Cities is not great and it seems like every couple years they reorganize the routes to make them even worse.
I think the biggest effect this will have on me is that I may never leave MN or WI again due to the cost of travel.

I live in the desert. Last summer it was above 110 degrees far too often. (I ride in to work about 3 in the afternoon. The ride home at night in the summer is very comfortable. (Except when there’s fifty- or sixty-mile winds in my face.))

Dood. You are doing good.

Here’s the thing. Doing good does NOT require you to die. 110 degree heat and fifty mile an hour headwinds are a PERFECTLY reasonable justification for some kind of internal combustion based solution.

Unless you only are seeking the victim award, get some kind of self – powered vehicle and use it when necessary.

Jeez. Bad decisions can happen on both sides of the aisle….

mikey

Passing along my increased costs to my wealthy Republican clients. Amazingly enough, only a couple are unsympathetic/miffed that I’ve had to raise my rates.

how are the rest of you coping?

public transportation. but it ain’t cheap, thanks US Gov’t for subsidies!
and also I don’t travel as much as I would like to.

how are the rest of you coping?

Through my congressman, I moved to sue OPEC. It felt good.

SgtD said,

May 22, 2008 at 3:46

I’m coping by burning today’s Chicago Sun Times after they allowed some moron to publish a column that basically said : “Hey America, your gas is cheap! Did you know that today’s gas prices are the same as gas prices in 1922, adjusted for inflation?”

Of course, back in 1922, gasoline was sold in five gallon tanks at the general store (kind of like buying buckets of bleach or paint or whatever), because service stations were few and far away.

Bike, mass trans, and leather personnel carriers get me around. With the rare jaunt in a cab or ZipCar.

My friends and I have formed an underground organization which plans to kidnap all the oil company CEO’s and put them in a grape press to extract all the oil from them.

Word to the Prius. When my Subaru died last summer, it killed me to give it up, or get anything other than another Subaru. But the Prius was the right choice. It is an amazing car and is actually HUGE, much bigger than I would want. It sits 5 adults comfortably.

Plus, 48 mpg… my commute is only 2 miles, so even going home for lunch every day, I still only spent $35 on one tank that lasts me all month.

People who complain about how much room for all their stuff they need have too much fucking stuff. Or they never learned how to pack properly. Or they never considered renting a truck for the minute number of occasions on which they’d need more space than the capacity of a small or midsize car, especially a hybrid. Generally they are also insufferable pricks.

I live six blocks from work, thank goodness. Unfortunately, in the frigid North, sometimes that’s six blocks of pure pain.

However, I do thank my lucky stars that a short, short commute is included in my ghetto-living package.

I too am fortunate to have the telecommute / work within walking distance setup, and I hope a good solution comes up for people who aren’t so lucky.

If only someone had been pushing for energy conservation and development of alternatives about 30 years ago and then not gotten voted out and replaced by a warmongering dodderer!

Also, of course, back in 1922, vast swaths of the United States were disease, starvation, under-nutrition, and zero infrastructure hells, but, yeah, other than that, how bad could a comparison be?

how are the rest of you coping?

Lucked out. I work 10 minutes walk up the hill, the wife’s job is 25 minutes walk away and number 1 daughter’s school is 40 minutes by shoe leather. There’s a supermarket (Whole Foods) within walking distance. A decent bookstore as well.

Back in 1922, all the bloggers were predicting that these cheap gas prices couldn’t last forever.

Guess they were right!

I’m seeing more and more RV’s parked in driveways with For Sale signs on them.

A solution to the coming crisis of homelessness.

i ride bikes a lot these days. i’ve been riding them for fun for a couple of years, but as it turns out, a bike+a bag+a decent lock make it quite possible for me to avoid driving for weeks at a time. (i’d like to mention, briefly, that if you haven’t ridden bikes since you were a kid, you really might want to check it out. it very well could be just as fun as you remembered.)

also! i didn’t really cycle between 12 and 23ish, but now that it’s a regular part of my life, i’ve developed excellent muscle definition in my upper legs. it is awesome! had someone told me that cycling=nice muscular thighs, i never would have stopped doing it as a kid.

/sarah’s pro-bike public service announcement

I moved from a tiny town to a city 100 miles away when I found my current job. Being a rube, I hated the idea of dealing with rush hour traffic and moved into an apartment building just three blocks from the office, so my daily commute only costs me some shoe leather. But the occasional trip home to visit family is getting expensive; a round trip uses 1/2 a tank in my VW, over $23 dollars just for the weekend’s drive.

Harrisburg has a bus system but I can’t find anyone who thinks it’s efficient, convenient or inexpensive. More of my co-workers are taking the buses and they say that ridership is increasing. That doesn’t mean that the streets still aren’t crowded and the garages still aren’t full on weekdays.

America has been paying less for its gas than our European cousins but $12/gal? Right now gas is about $9.25/gal in Holland and we’re going to leapfrog that?

It’s not just that the price of gas is going up (although it is); it’s also that the dollar is worth so much less now.

Don’t worry about me, mikey. I did it all last summer. The fifty- or sixty-mile winds are rare but … memorable.

Gas is around US$6.20 a gallon in Australia right now. You. Fucking . Pussies.

Soylent Green is for closers only.

Teleworking…for people who work mostly from their computer, there’s no reason companies can’t make more of this happen for people.

what am i doing?

i bought a prius. i had the battery removed and replaced with a lithium-ion battery by these people: http://www.hybrids-plus.com and then had that modded by this guy: http://www.go100mpg.com so that the car stays in electric mode for around 35 or so miles of city driving up to 52 Mph. the whole thing could cost in principle about 50k, which is a lot, if you use the hymotion people instead.

oh, and the car is charged from the solar panels i’ve installed, so i’m basically running off of the sun with no carbon going out.

but i’m sure it’s nothing, and SUVs are actually better–i mean faux-contrarian-libertarian assholes at Wired tell me so!!!

i, on the other hand, think that doing better in your life using whatever tools and resources are available to you is the right thing to do.

A huge amount of taxes go to propping up the U.S.’ dominance over the global oil trade (and that is mainly at controlling the flow of oil investments through banks and who and to whom oil will be traded, not for domestic U.S. consumption), so U.S. citizens are actually paying a hell of a lot more for “gas” than they pay at the pump.

“how are the rest of you coping?”

I invented a device which disassembles a person, on the molecular level; then beams them to a distant location, where they are reassembled.

Much cheaper than $12/gallon gas.

On the other hand, $12/gallon gas is slightly less likely to turn you into Brundlefly.

Billy Pilgrim writes: whoah.

we are so effed.

Yes, but I’m a part-time librarian in Michigan, a state that for the last several years has had the worst economy except for the Gulf States. Many services have been cut, from health care for the disabled and poor, to inter-library loan programs. And a Democratic governor has made no difference.

I ride the bus. It costs me $63/month.

I’m pretty lucky, though.

Public transportation in the winter, bike to work the rest of the year. Although, as a prof. I can get away with working from home on days I don’t have classes. Now that its summer, that is quite often.

The only time I buy gas is when I rent a car to go out to see the family. I haven’t owned a car in 10 years.

Unfortunately thats all ending as I’m moving to a car-centric city to start at a new university in the Fall and I’m already fearing the extra costs I’m not used to paying. Desperately searching for a house near campus. Just as much as gas, I’m scared to what the switch from biking to driving will do to my rapidly aging (and growing) mid-section.

I’m eating unleavened bread….

What?

mikey

Scientists have found that the liquefaction of inbred racist beliefs can yield 1,000,000 barrels of oil per day. Land prices in Kentucky are escalating even as we speak.

I think I’ve got most everyone on this thread beat.

1) Lived in Manhattan most of me life = never owned a car

2) Moved to Columbus, Ohio in 2006. Downtown, still did not buy a car (which makes me an alien from outer space, here: some streets don’t even have sidewalks).

3) Finally caved in and bought a Honda Civic (2006, LX), back in April.

4) That car had a half tank of gas when I drove it home from the dealer.

5) I still haven’t bought any gas. Mostly I walk past the car in the parking lot, think to myself (That’s MY Babeeeeeeeeeee!), and walk on to work. My car still has a quarter tank of gas in it.

6) DON”T STEAL MY BAYBEE!

I got back on the bike a couple weeks ago. It saves gas, and I desperately need the exercise. The ride to work is 2.5 miles one way, and it doesn’t take much longer to bike than to drive.

i’d like to mention, briefly, that if you haven’t ridden bikes since you were a kid, you really might want to check it out. it very well could be just as fun as you remembered.

More so in my case. I’m a lousy rider. When I was a kid, this concerned and at times embarrassed me. Now I don’t give a damn how bad I am as long as I’m safe and get where I need to go.

I don’t own a car. On the rare occasions I miss it, I rent one.

Instead I live within walking distance of the office, walk or bike wherever I need to, and use 1-way cab rides to carry large or heavy purchases.

People who complain about how much room for all their stuff they need have too much fucking stuff. Or they never learned how to pack properly. Or they never considered renting a truck for the minute number of occasions on which they’d need more space than the capacity of a small or midsize car, especially a hybrid. Generally they are also insufferable pricks.

I dunno. There’s no reason a small agile pickup couldn’t also be a hybrid, except most of the auto builders have forgotten how to be creative and anticipate market conditions (they’re still promoting bulk, horsepower and reckless speeds as their main offerings).

I find myself running to the hardware and/or garden store a couple of times a week in our 8yr. old Civic hatchback. Fence posts, large tools & bags of dirt and concrete don’t really belong there. Wish I had a truck sometimes but renting wouldn’t be practical and small trucks are unrentable around here anyway. Maybe by the time we run our Honda into the ground there’ll be a little hybrid or electric truck that I can afford.

That doesn’t make me virtuous, just stubborn and skinflinty.

Fortunately, I live only 6 miles from work and drive a car that gets reasonable mileage (23 city).

Unfortunately, as a construction project manager I have to have a car and make daily trips to job sites which can be a good deal further away than the 6 miles I commute to work. Still I’m able to get by with only 2 – 3 tanks per month, though now they’re costing $50 a pop (and soon more). But I live only 5 blocks from the neighborhood shopping area where there are grocery & clothing stores, the best independent bookstore in town, restaurants & my bank. Typically the car stays in the drive the entire weekend; if I do take it out I’m only going a mile or two from home. The one area where I am fortunate compared to many others is that I work as a contractor & have been incorporated for the past 10 years; all of my transportation expenses are paid by the business out of pre-tax income, which means $4 gas is more like $3 gas since I haven’t already been taxed on the money I use to buy it. Still I’m looking to switch to a more fuel efficient vehicle later this year – the one I’m driving now is 11 years old and it’s time to retire it.

BTW, I’ve looked at the Prius, the Civic hybrid, the Mini, and the Yaris and found that actually, the five-year cost on the Yaris is the least of all. Even at 10 years, which is how long I typically keep my cars, the Prius would have saved me a princely $3.23 per month over the life of the car as compared to the Yaris. Then again, I was factoring based on $4 gas; $10 gas would change the calculus on it a great deal.

I don’t have a car, but I commute on mass transit. Then again, I’m a fucking white-collar moderate hippie, probably.

I wish I could ride a bike to work. It’s about ten miles, though, and I have to cross at least two major highways to get there. Even on a good day, it would probably take two hours one-way.

It’s funny when people pretend to be shocked by this turn of events. Basing almost our entire infrastructure around the consumption of a limited and often hard to get resource, with demand growing every single day? I see no downside to this plan.

On the plus side, most of us are going to be dead (or too old to be eaten) before civilization collapses and it’s dystopia Thunderdome death matches for the survivors. I’m stocking up on wrist-mounted crossbows and eye patches just to be safe, though.

Many services have been cut, from health care for the disabled and poor, to inter-library loan programs. And a Democratic governor has made no difference.

I think you should elect a libertarian governor. They will simply eliminate the library system, as well as health care for the disabled and poor. Then nobody will need to worry about interlibrary loans.

Then nobody will need to worry about interlibrary loans.

Until Megan needs one, at any rate.

People are starting to give me dangerous looks when I gas up my Prius.

I can’t tell if they are planning to kill me for my car, or if it is just Prius envy.

Both, try not to point and laugh.

I assume they’re making more Priuses [sic?] now. Back when they first came out dealers required two eye teeth and one gonad and people were offering half their teeth, both gonads and spare relatives. Now our city code enforcement folks have at least one.

However, our Subaru had a major issue recently and the S.O. discovered that a Yaris would be the best replacement if the Subaru’s condition was terminal. Fortunately the mechanics we use are space aliens or angels or something and they cut us some slack on the bill so we’re very nearly broke but that’s better than being in debt.

The S.O. has to drive to get to work. I refuse to drive in this area until they allow certain responsible people (i.e. me) to mount laser cannons on their vehicles but I can get get around via public transit. Taking P.T. also allows me to catch up on my sleep/reading/writing/tourist hating.

Typical petrol prices in Europe = 250% of US prices. However, this is compensated by the entertainment value of the dystopia Thunderdome death matches.

Still waiting on that gas tax holiday har har.

Seriously though, it’s going to be painful watching suburbanites slowly realize that their lifestyle is no longer sustainable, on the other hand I don’t drive anywhere so I just have to deal with high commodity prices.

Ya know, last week I was offered just an obscene (well, to a low-rent chump like me) amount of money to work for a medium-ish sized oil company (I’m in geology).

When I read these sort of dire forecasts I really think maybe I ought to take it and just use the extra cash to drown my conscience in daily whiskey baths…

Horses. I’m planning on horses. My small town was built when horses were the primary conveyance and many of the houses still have barn/stable garages. It’s gonna come back around.

Old Grey Mare, beaches.

When I read these sort of dire forecasts I really think maybe I ought to take it and just use the extra cash to drown my conscience in daily whiskey baths…

or you could do the normal thing and rationalize. I’m sure there’s some form of logic out there that explains how both big oil and middle class Americans are getting exactly what they deserve.

My last comment was not intended to inflict pain, but to point out that a modern economy can co-exist with expensive petrol. The less optimistic perspective is that for an economy to adapt, sometimes the people not on high salaries need some form of compensation for their increased travel expenses… whereas the people who are on high salaries do not have a good record for willingly parting with any of it.
If I had wanted to inflict pain, I would have pointed out that I work from home. Without pants.

“…how are the rest of you coping?”

I ride the train. Of course, I live in a country that has excellent public transportation and don’t even own a car. Maybe you should move. Or, rise up and demand that your pathetic elected officials provide public transport? Whatever works for you.

” t. Howel is a dazzling wit…”
–http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9498.html#comment-610020

If I had wanted to inflict pain, I would have pointed out that I work from home. Without pants.

Ntodd can only cry disambiguation.

You know, just recently i was in DC and rode the subway. Any of you familiar with that thing? Dreadful business, in the nation’s capitol no less. Half the escalators don’t work, cuz they are out side, duh, most of the elevators don’t work, no money, the platforms are collapsing, the train cars are filthy (Like seriously, whose idea was it to put carpet on the floors?) ,the stations are dark and creepy, the thing is a mess.

Who designed this thing? Who didn’t send someone to Japan to see how trains run?
We really need to run our elected officials, all of them, out of town on a rail.

” t. Howel is a dazzling wit…”
–http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9498.html#comment-610020

Oh look, the asshole troll has woken up. Hurray!

I’m seeing more and more RV’s parked in driveways with For Sale signs on them.

Speaking of anecdotal evidence, I’m seeing very long lines at those change machines in supermarkets, the ones that you feed your pennies and nickels into. Before, there was usually never a line. Now there’s long lines.

BTW, I’ve looked at the Prius, the Civic hybrid, the Mini, and the Yaris and found that actually, the five-year cost on the Yaris is the least of all. Even at 10 years, which is how long I typically keep my cars, the Prius would have saved me a princely $3.23 per month over the life of the car as compared to the Yaris. Then again, I was factoring based on $4 gas; $10 gas would change the calculus on it a great deal.

Consider what it costs in energy/resources to produce a new car.
Buy used.

” t. Howel is a dazzling wit…”
–http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9498.html#comment-610020

I think you should elect a libertarian governor. They will simply eliminate the library system, as well as health care for the disabled and poor. Then nobody will need to worry about interlibrary loans.

You clearly have an entirely crabbed notion of what it is that all libertarians believe. But fact is, we in Michigan have a Democratic governor. That, as I said, has made no difference at all.

You clearly have an entirely crabbed notion of what it is that all libertarians believe.

John Stossel’s GUVIMMENT IS ALWAYS TEH SUCK primer?

I haven’t driven in years. The best thing about having a major mental illness is the free bus pass, and the Airport flyer takes me straight to the capitol in fifteen minutes, with one stop. Zoom-zoom.

The only real solution for cars is Hydrogen fuel cells.
nah. Hydrogen is no different from corn fuel.
http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Hydrogen-Harm-Ozone12jun03.htm

Here’s a better idea-
http://tinyurl.com/57rto4 (Bobby Kennedy JR)

Either wages will HAVE to be driven up or companies aren’t going to be able to get employees to come to work. When commute eats up all your money and you can’t eat food, where exactly is the incentive to work?

Doesn’t matter, wages and land and fuel costs are still cheaper in the US than Europe, and with the tanking dollar. the bitters can all some day get a job with, say, Fiat.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4277

“Many commenters here are only vaguely aware of the Farm Bill.
T. Howell knows all about it… T. Howell is a genius…a tireless seeker of the Good… a dazzling wit…”
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9498.html#comment-610020

Where can I sign up for the major mental illness?

I pretty much retired my recently-bought truck (last fill-up) to part-time status (read: back and forth to store) and have been taking the bus to and from work.. Thankfully, Albuquerque has pretty good buses. I have also purchased a bike as well, which is something I haven’t owned since I was a kid.

You clearly have an entirely crabbed notion of what it is that all libertarians believe.

So it seems. I’m pretty libertarian myself, but it’s more of an attitude toward life than something that a 21st century social-economic system can be built on. I don’t believe in the “invisible hand” as some axiomatic law of nature, and the world is much to crowded and complicated now to depend on it alone for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I live in the desert. Last summer it was above 110 degrees far too often. (I ride in to work about 3 in the afternoon. The ride home at night in the summer is very comfortable. (Except when there’s fifty- or sixty-mile winds in my face.))
—

Dood. You are doing good.

Here’s the thing. Doing good does NOT require you to die. 110 degree heat and fifty mile an hour headwinds are a PERFECTLY reasonable justification for some kind of internal combustion based solution.

feh. 50 mile an hour winds are the solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv9avH8TQJ8

====
“Many commenters here are only vaguely aware of the Farm Bill.
T. Howell knows all about it… T. Howell is a genius…a tireless seeker of the Good… a dazzling wit…”
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9498.html#comment-610020
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Presto! A new pie-lover is born.

What has to happen is a change of social attitude.

In the USA (and Europe for that matter) too much personal value is placed on automotive acquisition. I own a Tercel because it’s a conveyance that gets me from point A to point B with reasonably low cost and impact. If I have to move something big I can rent a truck. I don’t attach my value as a man, a citizen or a human being to what kind of car I drive. It isn’t an expression of my personality, my social status or the size of my penis. Which is, of course, exactly what the automotive and oil industries are trying to sell, and they’ve gotten good at it. It may take $10-plus gas prices to finally break the spell.

i bought a prius. i had the battery removed and replaced with a lithium-ion battery by these people: http://www.hybrids-plus.com and then had that modded by this guy: http://www.go100mpg.com so that the car stays in electric mode for around 35 or so miles of city driving up to 52 Mph. the whole thing could cost in principle about 50k, which is a lot, if you use the hymotion people instead.

oh, and the car is charged from the solar panels i’ve installed, so i’m basically running off of the sun with no carbon going out.

Cool. I’m wondering if you’ve thought about the resources/energy put into that brand new car and brand new battery and brand new solar panels. Cuz that’s what always bothers me when i start thinking about spending a bunch of money on new stuff. Not saying its not a good thing, it just always troubles me. I’d always rather buy an old beater toyota, than a new car, thinking it might be better environmental-wise.

===
“Many commenters here are only vaguely aware of the Farm Bill.
T. Howell knows all about it… T. Howell is a genius…a tireless seeker of the Good… a dazzling wit…”
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9498.html#comment-610020
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John Stossel’s GUVIMMENT IS ALWAYS TEH SUCK primer?

Why no! After the last 8 years, how could any sentient being even remotely suspect that govt sucks!?

Let me point out that I did not raise any arguments about libertarianism in this thread. Others did, and won’t let it go. Thus I conclude, after multiple similar experiences, that even those of us considered “left-libertarians” are just gonna get shat upon at this site.

FWIW, I’m a Hayekian, and contrary to popular but misbegotten belief, he did not reject all social safety-net programs, depending on how they are structured and whether they had significant potential to let govt control individual choices. (If the state solely provides medical care, should it be able to force women to use birth control or have abortions? Force people to diet and exercise? Uphold the “war on drugs?” Wear seat belts, ban trans-fats at restaurants, and prohibit smoking even in bars? Why not if the state has a financial stake in those and many other choices?)

But I don’t expect much more in the way of civility than has previously happened here, and now will leave permanently but sadly. For I think the writers here are gifted. Most especially Brad and HTML.

Here in Romania I saw the gas prices yesterday and converting to US dollars/measurements it comes to $7.3 a gallon. This is in a country where the average salary in the big cities is around 400 US a month.

Guess what? Almost everyone uses public transportation, taxis or private companies (think like “Greyhound”) for inter-city travel and the streets are only marginally clogged with traffic. Shocker!

Way up thread, El Cid is absolutely right. The U.S. was a net exporter of gasoline until WW2 and then Roosevelt struck his lovely little deal with the Saudis and the crux of all U.S. foreign policy ever since has been in using combined economic/military/diplomatic leverage on the rest of the planet to ensure America gets its oil.

The price includes far more than the cash at the pump, it means millions suffer under pro-US gov’t dictatorships from our amigos in Kuwait (which the Japanese paid to re-install) to the sheer horrors in Angola and Saudi Arabia and everywhere in between.

As David Rees said, you might as well be literally filling up your tank with the bones of those slaughtered in our conquest of the planet.

The higher fuel costs in Europe are partly the result of high gas TAXes which go to health care, infrastructure and so on. Ours is mostly profit for the Oil companies.

Joe Max said

In the USA (and Europe for that matter) too much personal value is placed on automotive acquisition. I own a Tercel because it’s a conveyance that gets me from point A to point B with reasonably low cost and impact. If I have to move something big I can rent a truck. I don’t attach my value as a man, a citizen or a human being to what kind of car I drive. It isn’t an expression of my personality, my social status or the size of my penis. Which is, of course, exactly what the automotive and oil industries are trying to sell, and they’ve gotten good at it. It may take $10-plus gas prices to finally break the spell.

Dude, if we all had nyms like “Joe Max” we wouldn’t be worrying about our penis size either. heh.
otoh, t Winslow, genius, tireless seeker of good, dazzling wit has never driven a car bigger than a Toyota Corolla. And the ladies still love him, yes they do. Cuz they know that t Winslow stands for, “Like what the fuck you driving that idiot big car for? Why are you feeding your kids Hot Pockets? You voted for GW Bush? Wait, you actually believe that the 80th story of the World trade center was secretly wired for burglar alarms? Reagan was a great president?

Mona said

But I don’t expect much more in the way of civility than has previously happened here, and now will leave permanently but sadly. For I think the writers here are gifted. Most especially Brad and HTML.

Please don’t leave, getting shat on by idiots is the (some might say only) best part of this blog.
I’m curious to hear your left-libertarion pov on public transportation.
Personally, i don’t think it will work. I think you need a socialist gvmnt to make public transport work. I’m curious how left-libertarians will solve the US’s problems, get people out of the suburbs with rising gas prices.

Oh by the way, I’m t Winslow, genius, tireless seeker of good and stuff.

Soj said,
The price includes far more than the cash at the pump, it means millions suffer under pro-US gov’t dictatorships from our amigos in Kuwait (which the Japanese paid to re-install) to the sheer horrors in Angola and Saudi Arabia and everywhere in between.

As David Rees said, you might as well be literally filling up your tank with the bones of those slaughtered in our conquest of the planet.

Ooh, jap-bashing! Good for you!
Q: What’s big, black, noisy, makes a lot of smoke and cuts carrots in five?
A: The Romanian machine for cutting carrots in four.

Uh, I’m a left libertarian (libertarian socialist) and I haven’t experienced anyone shitting on me. Maybe I’ve been missing it.

Uh, I’m a left libertarian (libertarian socialist) and I haven’t experienced anyone shitting on me. Maybe I’ve been missing it.

libertarian socialist… is that like a massive fucking oxymoron?

Uh, I’m a left libertarian (libertarian socialist) and I haven’t experienced anyone shitting on me. Maybe I’ve been missing it.

Say, could i be the first?
Libertarian walks into a bar, orders a salad. Vegetables say “Lettuce alone!”

So how do you left-libertarians plan on solving this mess, high gas prices, workers spread out in suburbs?

I’m living in basically a socialist/capitalist country, the trains run here. They run on time, Everyone uses them. People ride bikes, walk to the store. How is that shit gonna happen in the US when everyone lives in the suburbs and relies on cars and there is no money being spent on public transport?

it’s going to be painful watching suburbanites slowly realize that their lifestyle is no longer sustainable

And when I say “painful” I mean “entertaining”.

Johnny Pez said,

And when I say “painful” I mean “entertaining”.

Thank god we have condo in the city, eh? We can sit back and watch the rural bitters with their guns slaughter the doughy white suburban fucks for their daughters. We’ll be sitting pretty with our… hmm… bottled water?
I can hardly wait.

stryx said,

Soylent Green is for closers only.

And we have a WINNER!

Btw, work is ten minutes’ walk from my house.

Johnny Pez said

Btw, work is ten minutes’ walk from my house.

Wuss. Unemployed is where its at.

Thank god we have condo in the city, eh?

Yeah, it’s good to be a liberal elitist. And how clever of you to work out that I own a condo in the city. Such a clever, clever boy.

I pay out my ears to live in the city, and i put up with crowds and bullshit all the time. Looking forward to seeing you all here soon…

But I don’t expect much more in the way of civility than has previously happened here, and now will leave permanently but sadly

Or you could just ignore disagreeable people.

That’s probably the better overall life strategy.

What am I doing?
Riding the bus to & from work, & Ye Olde Shank’s Mare to market.

Problem isn’t going to be $15/gallon.

It’s going to be $20/lb. for your hamburger, $10 for a loaf of bread, $20 for a bag of rice or macaroni, who knows how much for fruits & veggies not in season … assuming ANY of that stuff is even available at any price by that point … & heating bills (already harsh) will be insane in the winter if you’re not in the warmer latitudes. Brutal heating bills & a short growing season is a hell of a 1-2-punch for folks already stretched to the breaking point by a wounded economy. That alone could produce a massive migration south – if you can’t afford to live where you’re living, you move. Warmer regions could very well see a huge influx of cold-climate-refugees, with nowhere to put them all & no jobs for them to find – nasty.
Later on in that article they’ve got their expert-dude pointing out that this isn’t 6-12 months of owie, it’s 10-15 YEARS of it. I don’t think it ends until we’re done converting away from using brontosaurus-turds & putrid ferns for damn near everything. Not to mention that the $15 figure might very well not be the apex of the curve.

Wheeeeeee, indeed.

Johnny Pez said

Yeah, it’s good to be a liberal elitist. And how clever of you to work out that I own a condo in the city. Such a clever, clever boy.

Are you calling me ‘boy’, sweetie? Cuz i won’t stand for that racist shit so late down here in the thead.

But seriously, all kidding aside, my condolences on the condo thing. Hope it works out for you. Bottled water, stockpile.

Suddenly I am finding Ed Begley, Jr. very, very sexy.

Stemler said,

I pay out my ears to live in the city, …

Heh, that shit’s gotta hurt, What is it like in those greasy diseased one dollar bills or those fresh 20s you get from an atm?

ITTDGY:

3) Finally caved in and bought a Honda Civic (2006, LX), back in April.

5) I still haven’t bought any gas. Mostly I walk past the car in the parking lot, think to myself (That’s MY Babeeeeeeeeeee!), and walk on to work. My car still has a quarter tank of gas in it.

Even if you’re not driving it, be sure to start it and run it up to temperature regularly, at least once a week or so. Gas has a shelf life, and your babeeeeeee will suffer needlessly and expensively when your fuel pump, tank pickup, fuel filter, and fuel injectors get clogged with a varnish-like gunk. Really nasty.

Besides that, gas loses its volatility (effective octane rating drops) to the point that even if your pump and injectors aren’t hopelessly clogged, the danged thing runs like crap, if it’ll start at all. When I was a mechanic and I saw a motor that hadn’t been run in a while, I’d recommend draining and throwing away the old gas before even turning the key.

Fuel pumps and injectors are not cheap.

You can buy “conditioners” that claim to increase the storage time of gasoline, but I have no idea if they work or not.

I strongly recommend that if you’re going to hardly ever drive the thing, add some fuel system cleaner to the tank when you do get around to filling it up. If you’re going to go several months between tankfuls, I’d say do that every time.

Oh, and the troll has a point about buying used, but only up to a point.

I’ve never owned a car that was less than 10 years old- and most of them Toyotas, coincidentally. Sure, it fits in with the “reduce-reuse-recycle” idea which is a bedrock of green living, right? But that was never a part of my decision which car to own- I own old cars because most of my life I’ve basically been various levels of poor. I’ve bought cars that were literally junk- sold as parts cars, which I got running.

Like my current car. Now, unfortunately, I’m stuck with a 20 year old 4Runner with 350k miles on it… It’s been good to me, and almost everything works, but it gets 16-18 mpg.

I’d probably keep it and just cut down on driving it, but now it’s got a rod knock and it’s just not worth my time or the parts cost to fix it (needs engine rebuilt). So I’m going to put it up for sale next week- if I’m lucky I’ll get enough for it to fix my motorcycle.

Oh, and how far down has the used SUV market fallen? Yesterday, I saw a 2000 Land Rover on a used-car lot. Looked real nice, clean and great shape, V8 engine. The price on the windshield was $2000. For an 8 year old luxury-brand SUV. A year ago, 2 G’s would have been the down payment. I could have gotten that for my 20-year-old beater Toyota… Well, hard-core four-wheelers love these early 4Runners, so maybe I’ll get lucky. It’s rust-free, after all!

I rode bicycles all the time until I was about 26- it was my favorite sport besides canoeing. Don’t know why I ever gave it up. I’ve already gotten my old road bike out of storage and started tuning it up. It’s about time I did something about this gut I’ve grown anyway. I suppose that $20/lb hamburger will help with that too.

As usual, po’ folks will be screwed the hardest. Unable to afford cars that get the great gas mileage, we’ll be stuck in guzzlers. Unable to afford the downtown condos, we’ll be stuck in the suburbs.

I wonder what this will do to the price of ammunition?

I moved from a place 16 miles from work to one that’s 2.4 miles from work.

We spent almost 300 dollars on gas for the move… filling up the Penske rental truck is damned expensive!

Re: wind in face. Get some good oakies. They look cool and tend to keep the wind out of the eyeballs. I’ve pulled some 2-3 g turns with them on and never had a problem. That an I’m a total oakley industrial design whore.

RobW said

I wonder what this will do to the price of ammunition?

What is this, like the Oprah show? Of course you quit riding a bike in merka, people throw shit at you and stuff. Fuck what are you like 12/ Back in the day we rode bikes to get to school, we didn’t have canoes and road bikes in the basement. Godamn you kids are really gonna suffer when this thing falls appart, eh?
And, interestingly, the price of ammunition is tied directly to commodity prices

due to the enormity of the problem
Robert Hirsch — “Management Information Services Senior Energy Advisor” — has not yet received enough scorn for that crime against the English language.
Odium, opprobrium and obloquy would also be good.

11 – 12 mpg, $5.25/gal diesel, $160 to fill the tank.

Do they make a prius with an 8 foot bed and lumber racks?

otoh, t Winslow, genius, tireless seeker of good, dazzling wit has never driven a car bigger than a Toyota Corolla.

Well, grampaw, I see that what I wrote really did hurt you emotionally. Which is really fucking funny.

Now the exciting part is waiting for Brad or Seb or Gavin to ban T. Winslow Howell the unfunny unemployable shitting idiot, which will take eighteen months.

Gas is $1.40 a litre here today, $1.29 a litre for regular (southern Ontario).

That’s about $5.60 a US gallon, $7.00 for an Imperial gallon.

I live in a small village, so I have to drive periodically. I do most of my work at home but I kind of miss the city right now, where I didn’t even own a car.

Ah well, I only drive a couple of times a week, so I’m kind of lucky compared to a lot of people.

I work in the air freight business. High fuel costs plus the slowing economy have been a double whammy for us.

I don’t really have to drive much, because my car sits at the airport when I’m out on trips. I’m just worried about having a job to drive to if this keeps up. The plane I fly burns 1500 gallons per hour.

I used to work downtown and hang out in the nicer parts of Chicago, so my wife and I were fine with one car. Now I teach in a poor area, and can either drive there in 20 minutes or spend over 2 hours on the bus. So I drive.
The people who live in the area where I work have a problem. If you’re poor and need to travel to where the jobs are, you need to either invest a great deal of money in a car or rely on public transportation, which is not reliable here. There has been talk of cutbacks in service for a few years now.
When my friends in suburbia complain about the costs of filling up their SUV, I’m not sympathetic. When the working poor complain they can’t keep their job because the trains don’t run at night and they can’t afford a car, it’s less funny.

Godamn you kids are really gonna suffer when this thing falls appart, eh?

Will you protect me, t Winslow Howell? You sound brave.

As an engineer that works for a local firm, I haven’t been too hard hit by the rising gas prices because of my tiny car and short commute. It’s going to come back and bite us in the ass, though; an increase in gas prices combined with the continuing rise in price for construction materials (I tried to get an estimate on steel girders for piledriving a couple weeks ago, and the contractor outright told me he couldn’t give me a reliable one because the prices are rising so fast) is going to make people reconsider anything beyond emergency repairs and maintenance.

Also, asphalt is a petroleum product. Hope you guys don’t mind deferred maintenance on potholes!

I bought a house 2.4 miles from work. Plus, since last summer we’ve been going on one big grocery shopping trip every two weeks rather than running to the store every day.

You know, if gas goes to $12, it’d totally be worth it to buy an electric car and put some solar panels on the roof for fuel.

N.C. is onto something.

If you made the choice to not drive to work, or to live somewhere that you don’t need a car, you might feel good about that.

However, if gas really does get as expensive as this Hirsch guy thinks it will, then only the very richest will escape the resulting shitstorm. Damn near the entire infrastructure and operation of our American society right now depends on petroleum in some way or other.

The only real solution for cars is Hydrogen fuel cells.

Hydrogen is the gateway drug to nuclear power. You can split water into hydrogen and oxygen with electricity from any source, but I think the big energy companies are going to want nuclear badly. Unlike greener alternatives, only a huge company can get into the nuclear power market. If they can keep us dependent, the alternatives will always languish in that not-quite-feasible-but-maybe-soon limbo.

My office is only about 8 miles from my house, and all but 2 of those miles are highway miles. I drive a fuel-efficient Honda. On average I fill up about 2 times per month. I try to walk to everything else.

What, like the guy in the $4000 suit is going to worry about gas prices? Come on! Oh, yeah, yeah. I’ll just get another hummer.

I’m still hoping for decentralized small electricty generation from solar, wind and Red Bull fueled hamsters. This is great for electric cars and plug-in hybrids and although hydrogen electrolysis can be done on any scale, it’ll take a pretty hefty facility to handle all that embrittling explosive gas. Maybe not as big a barrier as nukes (like three orders of magnitude less) but still beyond the reach of a Mom and Pop operation (unless your parents last name is Gates or Walton).

Consider what it costs in energy/resources to produce a new car.
Buy used.

When I want your opinion, shithead, I’ll beat it out of you.

Ya know, last week I was offered just an obscene (well, to a low-rent chump like me) amount of money to work for a medium-ish sized oil company (I’m in geology).

When I read these sort of dire forecasts I really think maybe I ought to take it and just use the extra cash to drown my conscience in daily whiskey baths…

I’ve got most of my retirement invested in a “natural resources” fund, so yeah, knock yourself out. We’ll just say you’re our mole in the industry.

FWIW, I’m a Hayekian

It’s nice that you have a totem to shake at the rain dance.

I walk, bike or, when the weather’s bad, take the bus to work. Of course, I live within a 30 minute walk of my office, and I’m also within walking distance of at least 30 or 40 bars/restaurants. I do have a car, but I only put about 3-4k mi. per year on it –that’s with an annual Philly to Tampa 2200 mile round-trip for Thanksgiving week (I drive so I can take my dog and let him enjoy my Mom’s 2 acre backyard, rather than send him to jail while I’m gone).

I live Atrios’s and Yglesias’s urban dream. Of course, if I were to go the full-Atrios, I’d have to get rid of the Honda and sign up for Philly CarShare.

I’ve given up caviar.

But seriously, folks . . . I’m lucky to live fairly close to where I work. I’d ride a bike, if it didn’t involve serious risk to life and limb. When enough people give up their SUV’s, it’ll be safe for me to bike to work.

I have seen a lot more moped ’round here lately.

Wow. I’m going to be on the job market this summer, and now I’m wondering if it would just be easier to find the, ahem, dignified way out.

Thus I conclude, after multiple similar experiences, that even those of us considered “left-libertarians” are just gonna get shat upon at this site.

Once again, poop proves its power at the Sadly, No!

But I don’t expect much more in the way of civility than has previously happened here, and now will leave permanently but sadly.

Oh no! Who will lecture us on the eternal wisdom of Salma Hayek and on the folly of ridiculing John Stossel?

Yes, government can suck. Also, not-government can suck. Also, privatized power can suck.

As an actual left libertarian who believes that perhaps someday, maybe in the far future, we may be interested in moving beyond the propertarian fetish to consider how to democratically and cooperatively run our economic lives instead of remaining mired in cellular authoritarianism, I don’t need to be lectured on the possible ills of government.

I commute 50 miles round trip, 5 days a week. I used to drive a mini-van until my husband’s car died for good. Now, he drives the van to work – about a 10 mile round trip commute, 4 days a week – and I drive our 2007 Honda Fit. I mostly drive on the highway and it’s been getting 35-36 mpg. I figure I’m saving anywhere from $40-$80 a week.

For those of you condsidering the Yaris, I urge you to look at the Honda Fit, too. The MPG is comparable. All the interior room is the same exept the luggage space in back, the Fit has much more room in that area. It costs about $500 more over a 5 year period than the Yaris (due to the fact the the Fit costs a bit more to purchase). We probably would have gotten a Yaris, but we test drove the Fit first. The Yaris is a wonderful little car, but I would look at the Fit, too. If you haven’t noticed, I love my Fit. I try to get the word out about it because noone seems to have heard of them – not surprising since Honda in the U.S. just started carrying them in 2007.

On some days I can work from home, but I make sure and do my part by simply setting fire to gasoline in an open barrel.

I heard the president of Shell on the radio complaining that environmental regulations in the US were responsible for high prices.

The executives said they were plowing profits into efforts to increase energy supplies. They sought to blame Congress for pushing prices upward by restricting domestic production. Congress has placed most coastal areas off-limits to new drilling.

“When many of these policies were implemented, oil was selling in the single digits,” said Shell Oil President John Hofmeister, adding that private oil companies are forced to explore internationally, where most of the world’s oil is now in the hands of state-owned oil companies.

I’m another member of the Prius club. It’s a great car.

I’m annoyed that I have to use it. I bought a house 5 miles from downtown Seattle on two major bus lines but all of the jobs I ever find are in outer suburbs.

They want to drill offshore in Florida, but I say wait until oil is going for 3 human babies per barrel. Babies are cute.

I live in NYC and ride my bike pretty much everywhere, unless it’s major-league shitty weather. Then it’s the subway or walking. If I need a car, I call a cab, or rent.

Sarah upthread is right, by the way — biking is really fun. Especially when passing a traffic jam. 🙂

It’s nice that you have a totem to shake at the rain dance.

Maybe I should not have said anything.

I guess it was the dig at Democrats that pissed me off.

Wow. I’m going to be on the job market this summer, and now I’m wondering if it would just be easier to find the, ahem, dignified way out.

Linnaeus, you may want to check with that guy upthread who steals cars, get a few pointers.
I understand that being a repo man is a growth industry.

We have changed our lifestyles (planned before the current debacle actually). At one time I commuted 50+ miles each way to work (so I could live in the city–my job was in the hinterlands). The city move was the first step in making our lives less energy dependent.
I now work from home about 75% of the time and fly maybe twice a month on business. My wife takes the bus 2 miles each way (or walks).
We drive maybe 3,000 miles a year using a 98 Nissan Frontier that gets about 30 mpg.
We got rid of the other car and haven’t missed it a bit (and man do we like the money we’ve saved).
This just hasn’t hit us much.
I feel for other people though. In many cases they don’t have much choice—our country is built on autos and isn’t mass transit friendly.
Some of the folks who work with me spend $300 to $400 a month on gas just to get to work. That money just doesn’t get replaced.

Kenga, you just might have something there.

I’m annoyed that I have to use it. I bought a house 5 miles from downtown Seattle on two major bus lines but all of the jobs I ever find are in outer suburbs.

You know, zzyzx, I feel you there. I live in Seattle, too, and I’d like to stay local (I’m looking for a job this summer) but most of the jobs seem to be in places like Kirkland or Bellevue and I’d really rather not have to move out of the city.

You know, zzyzx, I feel you there.

No flirting.

The fact is, my Wingnutmobile 3000 runs on a mixture of Cheetos, Mountain Dew and Glen Beck’s body odor.

We’ll be enjoying that Ramen at a very reasonable $4 a packet. Call me a defeatist but I say bring on the nuclear power, you know we’re going to blow it all out eventually anyway. Why wait?

I’ve posted this before: Silly pipe dream?

The transportation corridors are already there. Fewer and fewer will be able to afford them. Cycle-commuting would be a pleasure if paths and roads were actually built with cycling in mind. Health benefits, zero pollution; companies would have to provide bike lockers and shower facilities.

May the wind be always at your back, henry lewis.

henry lewis,
I’m new enough that I haven’t seen that before, it looks pretty cool. One question though, what of accessability issues such as the morbidly obese or chronic fatigue syndrome sufferers? People who with slightly limited mobility that can travel by car, but not by bike.

One question though

not even,

I don’t think it supposed to replace roads. Don’t think I’m some damn socialengineerofascistcommiecyclecultist.

There’s the people you mentioned and trucks still have to make deliveries, etc. Just think it would be a nice, relatively cheap option (as compared to building evermore interchanges).

Civic Hybrid here – ~46mpg in this weather. If I have a passenger in my car when I fill my tank, I loudly proclaim my gas mileage. If not, I just smirk.

No question, it would be a lot better if there were national policy, or even more patchwork local policy, to make cycling easier, safer, and a more realistic commuter option for the mass of people. People biking to work decreases the amount of gasoline we have to use, and also increases average exercise. It will never supplant all the other modes of transport but I don’t think lewis is asking for that.

As it is, cycling is still quite dangerous in lots ‘n lots of areas, and that still could, and should, be changed.

Still looks good to me. Start the infrastructure small, let them think they’re safe, then whammo – burn all their cars down. 40′ standard containers would be pulled by a team of four hardcore cyclists! Emergency vehicles will be pedal powered! A great and glorious two wheeled utopia awaits.

But seriously, that cycle network idea still does look like a darn good idea.

40? standard containers would be pulled by a team of four hardcore cyclists!

I think horses might be better for that job. Horses on bicycles, I mean.

How could anyone compare 1922 with today? Weren’t cars out of the average Americans price range? They are a necessity in 2008.

Chairman Meow: Sarah upthread is right, by the way — biking is really fun. Especially when passing a traffic jam. 🙂

yes! that is one of the satisfying parts of cycling, to be sure! i also enjoy sprinting to catch up with cars that have passed me in a rude or unsafe manner, so that we can sit at the same stoplight and i can glance over at them nonchalantly.

and to return to the original question Brad poses, i read an article last night about how some folks are turning to geo metros for their driving needs (and successfully selling them for $7,000-$9,000.)

Hey, you know who is a really exciting candidate? John McCain!! he is the moderate politician that Middle America has been waiting for!

btw, anyone know how many McCain points I need to buy a tank of gas?

I take Metro daily to get to work, though now is it actually comparable to driving since they hiked the rates – so $6.10 round trip daily, even the old ass ’93 intrepid I drive can make it in and out of DC from Arlington on a little less than a gallon of gas…but once we factor in maintenance and parking ($15 daily in DC) is when Metro makes PERFECT sense, hell they can raise the rate again and i’d still be less than driving.

Really though…my initial reason when I started working in DC for taking Metro was that I prefer people traffic to car traffic. And those red light cameras in DC are like 3 bitches in a bitch boat…

Arlington is uber-walkable so the only reason I drive is to visit family that are out of the area or the occasional trip to a store to pick something up that I can’t carry on foot or my bike.

I prolly forgot to mention that my work pays for the majority of my metro fare anyways – heh you hate me now.

I’m feeling the crunch mostly with the food and electric bills…i’m def prepping to switch to the ramen diet ugh and here I thought I was past that and won’t be enjoying the A/C that much this summer.

Sarah,

I read a similar article in Wired the other day about that too!

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/the-ultimate-pr.html

Here’s what a bunch of people are doing right now:

http://www.evalbum.com/

I don’t think you all have thought this cycling thing through. How are we supposed to maintain our big, proud American asses if we burn calories peddling everywhere?

In the getting-from-here-to-there sweeps, I’m placing my modest bet on (1) cabs, and (2) “jitneys”, small-group-transport to & from the many-passenger public-transport nodes. Jitneys may be how all the excess SUVs and mini-vans get repurposed. It’s not cost-effective to keep looping 40-passenger buses through the sub/exurb sprawl when they’re mostly empty, but if the bus runs reliably along a central node, six or eight families can pool their gas allotments. Run a loop or two to drop off the workers, maybe another loop to drop the kids at the central school-bus pickup, reverse the loop(s) at the end of the day, maybe do an afternoon/evening run once or twice a week to the local supermarket/strip mall. Of course this will require a certain governmental… flexibility… about stuff like insurance and licensing, not to mention introducing the novel concept that You Can’t Always Get What You Want to consumers who have been promised that having the “freedom!!!” and “security!!!” and “style!!!” of their individual carpods is worth sitting in traffic three hours a day *in addition* to their actual workdays.

Also, it’s going to mean re-training the PHB Management Class, because when all the office drones are locked into an actual commuting *schedule*, getting extra PHB manhood points by demanding said drones do that “one more (pointless) thing” before they bolt for the last train is going to be waaaay anti-social.

Yes, in an ideal world “we” wouldn’t have built all these private houses sprawled over many acres and linked only by asphalt, but then in an ideal world the concept Peak Oil would never emerge either. In this world, it’s going to be make-and-patch, link-and-pray, best-we-can-do-before-Thursday… which is not really so different from most human lives, for most of human history. Our proud common traditions are mostly about getting enough food, shelter, and maybe a little entertainment to get us through this sunup-to-sundown cycle; only the details change.

Late to the party as usual but I ride my DFH-stickered recumbent bike to work 3 days a week (25.5 mi. round trip) and bus the other two.

Except when my coding job project schedule demands I spend ungodly hours at work (a couple times a year)…then I drive a lot.

And having just been in NYC for a week, anybody who’d ride in that traffic gets a deep bow (or perhaps curtsy) from me.

Jitneys and impromptu car-pooling is what I foresee in my area. The mass transit is only good for getting people from the outlying towns to San Francisco and back. Within the county, it takes forever to get anywhere, and you’re always missing connecting buses.

I depend on my 1988 Honda Civic (aka The Easy Bake Oven, since I was dim-witted and opted for no air-conditioning) because I need to make lots of local trips to the houses where I work. I am strong, and when the Civic’s been in the shop, I have walked (one memorable hour-and-a-half jog/hike through the beautiful watershed/open space district land so I could get to an $18 dog walk), but the area is hilly, and getting hither and thither takes time, and time is money, and if you wanna eat you gotta work.

But I already give rides to other household workers when I see them headed for the lovely estates that are way way up there along the ridges and hills. We’re going to have to start doing that for each other more and more.

And yes, I am considering a bike, but they cost money and I’m scared of getting squashed by an errant Range Rover.

In my experience, it’s the Ford Explorers that are particularly malevolent, Larkspur.

Hey, henry. Maybe so. Every vehicle except mine and a recent proliferation of mini-Coopers (red with white suspenders) is so darn big that I don’t reckon it makes a difference whether I get hit while biking or driving my Civic. Although if we’re talking about squashification with malice aforethought, a bicyclist is in more danger than a 1988 beat-up Honda Civic. Which sucks. Bicyclists, please know I’m always watching out for you.

I meant of course, vehicles don’t squash cyclists, drivers do. My experience as a bicycle messenger (anecdotal! non-empirical!) was that the guy gunning his engine and speeding up behind me as I made a quick multi-lane change (totally safe if it wasn’t for idiots) would, more often than not, be driving an SUV and most often an Explorer. Or so it seemed.

Not to offend any Explorer drivers who might be reading this.

The Ford Explorers are pikers compared to the Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators.

pedestrian said
“Will you protect me, t Winslow Howell? You sound brave.”

Look, kids, I can’t really help you if you won’t help yourselves..

Jennifer said,

When I want your opinion, shithead, I’ll beat it out of you.

Oh sweet jeebus, that would be so awesome. Will there be furry polar bear suits and handcuffs?
Can we parade around in front of the WhiteHouse , all irrelevent, like Ralph Nader?
Oh, oh, I just soiled my pants.
Jennifer, you rock.

J— said,

Oh no! Who will lecture us on the eternal wisdom of Salma Hayek and on the folly of ridiculing John Stossel?

What, are you insane? Go on all you want about John Stossel, whoeverthefuckthatis, but don’t be dissin’ Selma.
Trust me on this, pal, people here are begging for my protection. You might want to listen to them.

not even an mba said,
May 22, 2008 at 20:53

henry lewis,
I’m new enough that I haven’t seen that before, it looks pretty cool. One question though, what of accessability issues such as the morbidly obese or chronic fatigue syndrome sufferers? People who with slightly limited mobility that can travel by car, but not by bike.

This is why all american high school students should be required, by law, to go to some other country and see how people live without automobile dependence.

Gmorristwn said,

Arlington is uber-walkable …

heh, you had me believing until that last part.

henry lewis said,

I meant of course, vehicles don’t squash cyclists, drivers do. My experience as a bicycle messenger …

Dude, we are so bonding. When and where? Me, DC 1985, the fun reagan years!
Those were the days, eh, back before front shocks and mandatory helmets?
Ever kicked the door of a Lincoln, left a dent and sped away?

Okay, late to the party, as usual.

I’m lucky enough to be close enough to work to walk there. My husband cycles, and we live in a moderate enough climate that he can do it all year round (Vancouver Island).

We almost never take the bus anywhere. It’s stupid expensive. For example, say I wanna go downtown. That’s a 30km drive. At about 10L/100km, that’s 3L of gas each way. Gas costs $1.35/L, so that’s about $8.10. It costs $2.25 each way for the bus. That’s $4.50 each, and there are 4 of us, though I usually get the little one on free on those odd occasions. So let’s say 3 of us. That’s $13.50. To take the bus costs $5.40 more than taking the car. Ludicrous.

I cannot afford a new car, let alone a Prius, so when we drive, it’s our 1991 Oldsmobile 88. A smaller car is pretty much out of the question because of kids and dog and cross-country trips to visit family.

What worries me most is the cost of food. It’s going to fucking skyrocket. Considering I can’t eat most of the grains grown here, I have to rely on rice and tapioca. That’s really going to be a BIG problem for me.

Luna,
It’s a good thing that gas is the only cost in running a car.
You’d have to work out another way to do your x-country family visits, but think of all the extra rice and tapioca you could get in exchange for how much you’re spending on maintenance and insurance.