In which I piss everyone off by endorsing a unity ticket
Big Tent Democrat has done his fair share to piss me off over the past few months, but I think he’s basically correct here:
Whatever she feels is right. She has earned that.
My own view is she should run her campaign against John McCain. She will win West Virginia and Kentucky by huge margins.
She might even challenge Obama in Oregon.
What she should not do, imo, is run against Barack Obama. If there is a path to the nomination for her, and I doubt there is, it won’t come from attacking Obama now.
My two cents.
It looks at this point like Obama will be the nominee. However, this has been a very close and bruising primary campaign throughout. Things have gotten way too emotional and a lot of people just aren’t reacting logically anymore (i.e., “IF MY CANDIDATE DOESN’T WIN I’M VOTIN’ FOR ST. BBQ WAAAAAAAAH!!!“).
Put another way, people need to calm the hell down. The best way to get them to calm down will be for the presumptive nominee to at some point offer the second-place finisher the vice-presidency. Since both candidates have enormous egos, this might be tough to pull off. But if you could work out some kind of power-sharing arrangement where the Veep gets to lead on major policy initiatives – think about a non-evil version of the Dick Cheney energy task force – then it might just work out.
And yes, I know that everyone will hate me for suggesting this. At this point, I don’t care: this was a very close race and both candidates have millions of dedicated and passionate supporters. Neither side should be summarily dismissed just because their preferred candidate didn’t get the nomination. As BTD would say, my two cents.
UPDATE: OY:
I think Clinton and Edwards should quit this sham of a democratic party and run as a 3rd party. I am sure most of her base will follow her. and with Edwards as her running mate, they do have a shot. democratic party is no longer the party I believe in. I started having doubts when lieberman said the part has been hijacked by extreme liberels with an agenda.. this whole Obama candidacy is an orchstrated event right down to the choreographed efforts of MSM’s and SD’s.
No, dude, I don’t think Hillary and Edwards want their legacy to be Nader ’08.
Jeebus, the stupid needs to stop.
True, but there should be at least some modicum of hell to pay for a candidate who nearly adopted wholesale the Big Book O’ Wingnut Talking Points. Yes, she’s earned the right to do whatever she feels is best…but we’ve earned the right not to see the Clinton Brand(TM) steer this party into oblivion.
I wouldn’t mind HRC as a VP; I’m guessing that most of us really would be fine with the idea. Convincing her is another thing. But again- She’s earned the right to choose her own destiny, but not ours. That’s what happens when you lose. Deal.
No. Please, no.
Hillary was always yesterday’s woman and now she’s tainted by Scaife, Limbaugh and desperate campaigning. She and Bill need to ride into the sunset.
Hate is such a strong word.
I don’t hate you for this, just like I wouldn’t hate you if you believed in unicorns.
Offering her the Veep End isn’t going to soothe the thumbsuckers who won’t be happy with anything less than total victory, and it would piss off the equally unhinged Obama fans. Then there’s always the possibility that Obama just doesn’t want her as a running mate.
Hillary for USA AG or on the S.C. Not at the USNO.
Ignorant question: How often has it happened that two opponents in a presidential race became running mates?
Nobody else around here would feel slightly concerned about putting someone with *that much* laser guided ambition in the position where they would be the major beneficiary of my death?
No, just me. Thought so. The paranoia bunnies are chansing me again…
Not hate! Just disagreement. She’ll be an anchor not a set of wings. Well her, Penn, Bill.
The other best way to get them to calm down is for Hillary to tell them to work for Obama and vote for him in November. In every hard-fought primary that has ever occurred in the entire history of the universe, some portion of the losing candidate’s supporters have sworn that they would vote for, well actually they’ve sworn to vote for St BBQ, because he’s been around that long.
Anyhoo, I think things will calm down on their own — especially with a bit of campaigning by Hillary.
‘Tis true, SadlyNots; we Democrats should start the assault on St. BBQ and the fucked state of economy, the abject depravity (and HUGE cost) of the GWOT, the horrific real estate market, rising gas prices, etc. Attacking each other is futile and only helps divide the party further.
After all, the Republicans have screwed up the country royally–let’s not lose focus on this fundamental political truth.
If Senator Clinton had a shred of integrity left she’d fight to the finish (she’s earned it), but lay off the anti-Obama horseshit.
How often has it happened that two opponents in a presidential race became running mates?
Reagan-Bush.
They should both be picking at McCain, figuring out the best ways to pick, and use the remaining primaries to do just that. It would be a great way to show teamwork toward a goal they share: getting a Democrat–any Democrat–elected in November.
Might even make her likeable again, since she can honestly scoff off questions that she resign. She can even laugh at journalists, as long as she sticks to the plan, and the journalists will have to either report as she attacks McCain or report on how much she laughs at journalists. I think the coverage would get more serious then, and the Republicans will suffer for it.
And Obama can continue to attack Republican ideals, promote Democratic ones, and remain aloof to reporters while McCain can be Mr. Straighttalk and have the journalists parrotting the questions fed to them by two candidates who want to defeat him.
That’s called turning lemons into lemonade and squishing the peels in McCain’s sour face.
Brad says that “Things have gotten way too emotional and a lot of people just aren’t reacting logically anymore”.
Very true, Brad. Some people actually think that Obama can win, despite belonging to an openly racist church and being married to an openly racist wife. It is enough to make one laugh!
One of the reasons this campaign has been so intense is the narcissism of minor diffrences. These are two very similar candidates. They’re both Senators. They’re both centrists. Neither comes from the South or the West (despite Clinton’s Arkansas connections). This campaign has largely consisted of rather divisive demography fu because that (and political style) is what separates Clinton and Obama from each other.
So while they both certainly have intensely attached supporters, together they wouldn’t provide much balance to each other on the ticket in terms of ideology, geography, or political experience.
In addition, though Clinton definitely did a good job of driving Obama’s negatives up over the course of the campaign, she did little or nothing to drive her own negatives down.
The main political impact I see of having Clinton on the ticket is to further energize the Republican base. Though it should be said that VP candidates very rarely make any electoral difference at all.
My problem with having Clinton on the ticket is that I want to see the Clintons as far away from the White House as possible. And I say that not as an Obama supporter (I’m not) but as an ex-Democrat who left the party because of all Bill Clinton did to drag it to the right.
The quicker the Clintons are shown the exit from our nation’s political life, the better. And if the Democratic Party doesn’t have enough self-respect to say “no” to Hillary Clinton after the campaign she ran….
Well let’s just say that it fits in nicely with a party whose Senate leadership continues to welcome Joe Lieberman even after the Connecticut Senator has accepted a speaking engagement at the Republican National Convention.
I have my M.C. Lyte moments as well (U.N.I.T.Y. that spells unity), but the TalkLefters don’t want Clinton to be on the ticket– you know, because Obama will lose and they want to win in ’12. I think having Clinton on the ticket will only exacerbate the resentment of each side, with Obama and Clinton folks continually sniping at who has disrespected whom, who’s really in control, who’s being patronizing, is Bill really in control, ad projectiliam nauseam. I mean, Jumper’s not the only one who will be making assassination jokes, and it hasn’t even been a day yet.
Obama would be a fool to have HRC as a VP. She and Bill would tag-team him at every opportunity.
My Queen Latifah moment of course. In my M.C. Lyte moments I think we as Democrats should put our back in to it.
While I think the idea of a unity ticket is ludicrous, I do think it’s a very hopeful sign that the Clintonbots seem to have seized on this talkingpoint today. It beats the hell out of the dogwhistle racism, fluffing of McCain, and pseudo-populist pandering that has characterized the Clinton campaign for several weeks.
The Troof says “please please please please listen to me say over and over and over and over and over that Obama can’t win please please please please please it is sooooooo true and I am soooooooo right you got to listen to me please please please please please he is a radical Black Panther Moro radical killer Weatherbomber please please please!!!!”
You know, it might just be too late for any Democrat to reverse the damage done.
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/05/06/a-scary-thought-gasoline-at-7-50-a-gallon.aspx
Gotta love the last two sentences.
Your right you just pissed me off!! lol
Clinton should be shunned she wants to run like a RED she should become a RED. The REDs HATE her so we will never have to see her again on my TV. 😛
Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife! Obama can’t win! Racist church! Racist wife!
Listen….do you hear that? It’s the wind, blowing tumbleweeds through TalkLeft this morning. That tells you all you need to know.
I think that the notion of a healing Obama / Clinton ticket sounds very, very good right now, but if it happens will begin to seem less and less and less and less and less so as the general election goes on.
“Truth,” please link to the original Michelle Obama “ineradicably racist” quote in context or kindly suck it.
Seriously what more could Clinton have done to convince progressives that she she doesn’t want your vote? Did she need to French kiss Hugh Hewitt while waterboarding a baby? Please, please, someone explain to me why people who I know are very intelligent can’t see the forest for the trees on this one?
I stopped by MyDD this morning and was very encouraged. There were still a few holdout jerks on both sides, but most of the comments were from people who recognized that the nomination phase is over and the general election phase has just begun and that we need to beat Grandpa Simpson in the fall.
Hillz would not be a good VP candidate. She is way too polarizing of a figure. You either love her or you hate her–there doesn’t seem to be much middle ground there. I could see her as Senate majority leader perhaps, but not VP.
And Brad, I would be pissed off if you turned into the self-absorbed, not man enough to defend your positions without banning people/deleting posts, coastal elitist that is BTD.
I and others have always said it would be a great ticket! In several respects, the two candidates complement each other. Just my $0.02…
OT: Drinking Liberally Cambridge tonight will be the site of Boston Drinking Sadlyly II: The Drinkinging.
Come and I’ll tell you about the day-long staff training I’m undergoing today. Many amusing stories and only 75% suck!
Here’s a list of reasons why Hillary is a bad choice as VP (some of them already mentioned):
1. She galvanizes Republicans to come out and vote (against her).
2. She shit in the nest by flogging the Rev. Wright stuff. I can already see where in every VP debate, interview, etc the question would be asked, “you said you thought Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, etc were a cause for concern but now you don’t?”
3. With Hillary comes Bill. Do we really want him fucking up the campaign in the general election the way he did this primary campaign?
4. This primary has been, more than anything else, about finally breaking the stranglehold of power the DLC has had on the party for the past 20 years. A time period during which the Democrats have mostly lost while at the same time alienated their traditional base. During the DLC era, the traditional Democratic base has seen a continual erosion of standard of living, and the DLC has aided in the policies that caused it. 2004 was about the same thing, and the DLC managed to prevail. This time they haven’t. There’s no good reason to hold the door open and invite them back in to continue fucking up the party. Encouraging the DLC only increases the likelihood that we’ll see another DLC nominee in 2016 (or 2012). That, to me, is the very best reason to write off not only Hillary but also a lot of the other names being bantered about (Evan Bayh, Wesley Clark, etc, etc).
5. Her “I think he’d make an excellent vice president” remark, when she had already more or less lost the nomination race, should in and of itself be enough to disqualify her, at least in Obama’s eyes. It was arrogant and smacked of “get on the bus…here, you can ride in the back.”
So, bad idea. And one that Pelosi has already suggested is not a possibility, for which we should all be thankful.
The idea of Clinton being the vice-president should be allowed to wither away.
We’re the reality-based party, despite whatever Clinton thinks can gain her a point in a poll somewhere. From a pragmatic point of view, there is a large constituency on the Republican side that simply loathes her. They may not be motivated to vote against Obama, but they may be motivated against her. Look at her negatives, which have always been high. She hasn’t run an effective campaign, and she has said a lot of things she’d have to explain away in a joint ticket. She would lose more votes than she’d gain, in other words, which is by definition what you don’t want a veep to do.
On an ethical level, putting her on the ticket is rewarding awful behavior, but ethics may not be the main factor.
More to the point, I think it’d be a living, breathing disaster for governance. There would be three power centers (Obama, Clinton, Clinton) and the Clinton’s are hyperaggressive. A lot of Obama appointees would probably come from the Clinton administration. So we’d have a Cheney II setup: a VP office where a lot of the lower level people who enact policy and provide information to the president are loyal soldiers for someone else. Her entire set of instincts are rooted in a failed and old Democratic party tradition of caution and triangulation. I think that’s why she failed, in fact: they were trying to refight the presidential battles of the 1990s.
Send her a cookie basket, and see if she wants to be governor of New York. That’d play to her strengths.
I see your lunatic Unity ticket and raise with Obama-Lieberman. The anguished screams of the progressosphere will feed the Village for decades! BWAHAHAHAHA!
Bad idea. Obama can win this thing with Mickey Mouse (appeals to key demographics, ready to step in, etc.) as his running mate.
More interesting – Who’s gonna get foisted on MadJack?
I hear Jack Kemp’s available again.
Some people actually think that McSame can win, despite belonging to an openly racist party and being married to a drug addict trollop of a wife. It is enough to make one laugh!
Fixed.
Clinton/Edwards 08- We Have Little to Nothing in Common
I agree that an Obama/Clinton ticket would never work. To quote They Might Be Giants, you “can’t shake the Devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding.” Clinton has pulled out every dirty trick in the RNC book against Obama, and she wouldn’t be able to backtrack and retain enough credibility to be a valuable part of the ticket.
What’s more, her recent, blatant pandering has really taken the wind out of her sales. A Federal Gasoline Tax holiday? Really? Are American’s really so stupid that they would elect a president based on three months of gas that $.18 less per gallon? It’s like a freakin’ Geico commercial:
“The economy is in the toilet, the government can’t afford to fix the dangerous bridges on the highways, and we’re stuck in a 100 year long war in Iraq. But I just saved $3.60 when I filled up my gas tank!”
Hillary would be a fantastic Senate Majority Leader. Unlike Reid, she can make sure the GOPers stay at the kiddy table where they belong.
As long as the Dems get their act together and focus all of their guns against McCain instead of each other, the GOP will be rightfully burried for a generation.
Clinton has pulled out every dirty trick in the RNC book
Let’s be fair: she hasn’t called him a child molester.
Ooops. I mean to say “wind out of her sails.” Make whatever Freudian slip interpretations you may find appropriate.
Let’s be fair: she hasn’t called him a child molester.
…yet. The convention is stil a couple of months away.
Nobody else around here would feel slightly concerned about putting someone with *that much* laser guided ambition in the position where they would be the major beneficiary of my death?
Was this a quote from W?
Message to Clinton:
You lost.
I started having doubts when lieberman said the part has been hijacked by extreme liberels with an agenda
My head asplode.
I don’t care who wins. I just want to stop killing Iraqi kids. Can we do that please? Pretty please?
I… I just want her to go away. I’m just so tired of her, and everything she’s done in this primary has made me angry.
Can we get an Obama/Edwards ticket? That’d be awesome. I hear he’s got a set of jet-skis, which is way more manly than windsurfing.
I don’t care who wins. I just want to stop killing Iraqi kids. Can we do that please? Pretty please?
Dennis Kucinich was more or less offering that option, and even progressives decided to ignore him.
So, sorry, no.
You will have the option of slightly more competent, measured militarism and war crimes committed with less gusto, however.
Arrrrrrgh!!!! The stupid!!!!! It burns!!!!!!
she would be a rock around his neck, not only in the campaign, but even more in his administration. can you imagne her in the VP office? her ego would work to subvert him at every turn. and having Bill along for the ride?
Obama doesn’t need to compete with a soap opera
Brad – I do love your idea for the Clinton camp to run against McCain, it might be the only thing they could do right now to convince the Supers that she’s more electable than Obama.
What I’m not so fond of is the Unity Ticket thing, but I wouldn’t mind hearing about a back door deal to give her something in the new administration. SC, State, something like that…
Also, seriously, fuck Lieberman.
Yeah, an Obama/Edwards ticket would rock. In the past four years, about the only thing the MSM could pin on Edwards was an expensive haircut.
Clinton’s bitter and insane supporters remind me of a bumper sticker I want to see…
Dear [Stars and Bars] You Lost Love [Stars and Stripes]
What if we—-
The only thing I can think of is a nation-wide buying strike,. Refuse to spend any unnecessary money at major corporations until the government pulls out. No optional or recreational spending, until the soldiers are home. Then we have a national party, and progress to Plan II: Operation Incarceration.
The media is pushing this “unity” ticket because it creates a new narrative – the “odd couple” story. All they want is something that satisfies the 24 hr news cycle monster.
“Also, seriously, fuck Lieberman.”
With a saguaro cactus.
No, make that a flaming saguaro cactus.
Sideways.
Clinton should stay in the Senate. If she’s really the fighter, the insider who know’s how to get things done, and the policy wonk she claims she is, then that is the best place for her–that is the place where her talents can be put to maximum effect. Whereas, if Obama is far better on foreign policy and in convincing moderates/independents of center-left policies, then he’s better suited to the bully pulpit role of the President. Too bad these two couldn’t have figured that out like two months ago and just went full barrel on McCain. Of course, then we might not have had all those extra voters registered and all that.
The stupid, it burns!
And anyone else find it odd that a comment like that appears on a site called “Talkleft“?
Yeah, an Obama/Edwards ticket would rock. In the past four years, about the only thing the MSM could pin on Edwards was an expensive haircut.
LOVE CHILD!!!!!!!!
head explodes
Hillary would be a fantastic Senate Majority Leader.
Ooh! oooh! [raises hand higher] me too!!!!
Here’s what I think should happen. I think Bill Clinton should give the speech introducing Obama at the convention. hugs and kisses all around. friends again.
Obama needs a different balance as a running mate.
Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Edwards in the White House. That would be cool.
“Hey! TalkLeft crazies”
“Don’t include me in your 3rd party fantasies. I haven’t even endorsed HRC, so why would I want to sign up for a suicide pact with her? And after my homestate just crushed her by a quarter of a million votes? C’mon, get a grip.”
“Please, just calm down. Your candidate sucks. Obama sucks and I sucked too. And always remember, we just all suck a whole lot less than 4 more years of McBush.”
If Clinton isn’t Obama’s choice or if she declines, there are several other women who would make great running mates, like:
Christine Gregoire, Governor of Washington
Kathleen Sebelius, Governor of Kansas
Janet Napolitano, Governor of Arizona
Claire McCaskill, Senator from Missouri
Plus, to my knowledge, all of the above have already endorsed Obama, something I don’t think Hillary has done yet.
How often has it happened that two opponents in a presidential race became running mates?
First time was when Jefferson got to be Adams’ VP. That worked out so well — not — that they changed the rules so that the new President got to pick his own Veep, rather than having his runner-up piss in the presidential oatmeal every morning for four long years.
Second most famous, I believe, was Kennedy “graciously” giving LBJ the “consolation prize”. Again, the two men and their respective teams got along so well that when JFK was assassinated, some very serious people believed Lyndon knew about it in advance even if he didn’t actually help set up the motorcade in Dallas. Since quite a few political historians have already drawn the obvious parallels between JFK/BHO and LBJ/HRC, even if Obama *were* to offer and Hillary were to accept, the global Strategic Tinfoil Reserves would be depleted well in advance of the general election.
So, while I thought the Dual Mold-Breaker ticket was a great idea this time last year, I don’t see much chance of it happening now. There’s still the pleasant fantasy that Obama could tap my personal favorite, Edwards, or even Dodds or Biden. As long as he stays away from Lieberman or some other DINO, however, I can maintain my Zen calm. It’s kind of soothing to know that, for the first time, I’ll be working for the election of a Democratic candidate just because he’s a Democrat, and not because I actually care about the guy. (Yes, I am one of the three women in America who thought Dukakis was sexy, and I liked John Kerry, and I even had a certain affection for Al Gore. Confession is good for the soul, they say.)
Clinton should stay in the Senate. If she’s really the fighter, the insider who know’s how to get things done, and the policy wonk she claims she is, then that is the best place for her–that is the place where her talents can be put to maximum effect.
Completely agree. It’s a nice idea from a unity standpoint to have them on the ticket, but I’ve thought all along that Clinton and Obama could do more good if the person who did not get nominated stayed in the Senate. Either one as the other’s VP would be seen as the second string QB just waiting for the starter to get benched.
I also don’t see any problem with finishing the primaries. The time to quit if someone was going to do it was a few weeks ago. At this point I think they can position it as giving everyone a chance to vote for the Democratic candidate. Obama’s going to probably start acting like the nominee anyway.
Well, I loved her in Concrete Blonde. Why not put her in the White House.
She’s campaigned on the Karl Rove playbook, let her fade into ignominy on that same playbook.
No unity ticket. All but the most obsessive and childish Clinton supporters will come around by November.
some very serious people believed Lyndon knew about it in advance even if he didn’t actually help set up the motorcade in Dallas
No they don’t.
To quote They Might Be Giants, you “can’t shake the Devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding.”
See, that’s just the problem justbrent. Clinton is not the Devil. She’s just a politician, and so is Obama.
I don’t think that Obama should have her as VP nor do I think he would (assuming, of course, that Obama does win the nomination.)
Brad is right, however, that Obama, should he become the nominee, needs to offer her some kind of power, for the good of the party.
Susan of Texas said,
I look forward to a return to slowly starving Iraqis to death, as we did under a Democratic president, rather than blowing them up with cluster bombs, as we do (with greater frequency) under Republican ones.
How does one go about being black racist/supremacist anyway? It’s not like US has a history of white people being oppressed by blacks, or a cultural stereotype of whites being mentally/morally inferior permeating the whole society. What cultural sources they could draw upon? I’m sincerely interested.
Hey guy, didn’t this blog used to be funny?
“Also, seriously, fuck Lieberman.”
Didn’t I see this on Lil’ Bush?
Oh, wait, that was McCain.
OK, I hate you. Now go get a job so you can buy a car so you can get $30 back to buy Ramen noodles & chemical filled Dollar Store Tomato Sauce (that elitist Lambert actually recommends that the poor buy Spaghetti Sauce, for crying out loud) so that you can be poor & know that $109,000,000 makes you a working class hero.
What cultural sources they could draw upon? I’m sincerely interested.
They could possibly draw on some of the mythology of the “Nation of Islam”, or similar organizations. It is possible to be a black racist, though it is an extremely marginal position.
See, that’s just the problem justbrent. Clinton is not the Devil. She’s just a politician, and so is Obama.
That’s not what the quote means. I’m not calling Clinton the Devil (since that job is already shared by Dick Cheney and Karl Rove). The point is that Clinton can’t engage in all sorts of dirty politicking (i.e., shaking the Devil’s hand), and then later say that she didn’t really mean it and Obama would be a great President (i.e., saying that she was only kidding).
I certainly don’t hate you for suggesting it, Brad. I just don’t think it would work.
I kind of want Edwards as Attorney General. He’s very well-qualified, and the office has fallen into so much disrepute that it needs someone who will crack down and clear out the bastardry that’s crusted over in it.
Clinton wouldn’t be a poor match for State, although try telling her that.
If I hear one more Hillary supporter reference “Obama said Indiana was the tie-breaker!!!!,” I’m going nuclear.
1) Hillary said that North Carolina was the “game-changer.” And she didn’t lose North Carolina by less than 2%.
2) WGAS?
3) Even if Obama hadn’t increased the delegate/pop. vote margins (which he did), the primary season isn’t three states, geniuses.
Is Janet Reno still available for AG? Cause I kind of recall thinking she was fucking awesome at it during the Mr. Clinton years. Though I admit, it may just be because I’m for anyone willing to piss off the Cuban exiles in Miami.
The point is that Clinton can’t engage in all sorts of dirty politicking (i.e., shaking the Devil’s hand), and then later say that she didn’t really mean it and Obama would be a great President (i.e., saying that she was only kidding).
Sure, I see what you are saying there. And, OK you were not saying she was the Devil.
I’m saying that we should get beyond our personal feelings of anger, no matter how justified, and go with realpolitik. Clinton should be given some plum position, to mollify her and her supporters. It should not be a position where she would damage Obama, such as VP (which would not work anyway), but it should be something good.
I’ll only be pissed if you don’t pass over what you’re smoking.
About the only plus side of a Hill VP, would be the assurance that she won’t go third party. Has she committed to not going Lieberman on us? Like, more of a commitment than she made about Michigan and Florida?
Anyway why should she start running against McCain now?
Since she’s so keen on being the Democrats’ little saber-rattler towards Iran, how about putting her in as Sec of Defense. She can’t possibly be worse then the past eight years of assholes in the position.
Oooooooooo, Secretary of Defense! That’s a great idea. She’s always bragging about her experience serving on the Armed Services Committee, so it makes sense. Plus, she’s way more of a bad-ass than Donald Rumsfeld ever was.
I am endorsing an Ettiky Tunic. So comfortable in the summer and never out of style.
I am also voting straight (so to speak) Democratic ticket this fall. There is NO alternative practical choice available to begin to repair the horrible damage that has been done to this country in the last 7-plus years.
How long can they cling to Michigan and Florida?
Dude. Didn’t say I was one of them, or that the idea remains current. But try googling “MacBird” if you don’t believe it existed.
How long can they cling to Michigan and Florida?
Going by current bitter oats…. eight years and counting.
Dude. Didn’t say I was one of them, or that the idea remains current. But try googling “MacBird” if you don’t believe it existed.
There seems to be an issue around these parts lately wherein certain people are unable to distinguish between reporting and advocacy. As if by reporting or relating something you’ve read or heard or seen is the same as saying it’s true and arguing in favor of it.
If Clinton isn’t Obama’s choice or if she declines, there are several other women who would make great running mates, like:
Christine Gregoire, Governor of Washington
Kathleen Sebelius, Governor of Kansas
Janet Napolitano, Governor of Arizona
Claire McCaskill, Senator from Missouri
Plus, to my knowledge, all of the above have already endorsed Obama, something I don’t think Hillary has done yet.
Brian Schweitzer, Gov Montana – put it in the bank and let that interest grow.
Let’s just think about a fall campaign with HRC as VP for the Dem ticket, and imagine how well these questions would go for Obama in an interview or in a debate:
1. “You vowed to change Washington and politics, yet you’ve got someone as your VP candidate who was in the WH for eight years and then in the Senate—where she authorized a war that you called “dumb”. Why is she your running mate, and how should the Americans regard her candidacy as one that would embody the change you so often speak of?”
2. “HRC once suggested that both she and Senator McCain have passed the Commander-in-Chief threshold whereas you have not. Why do you suppose she is now supporting your candidacy as your prospective Vice President, and why would you choose as your running mate someone who said that the GOP nominee is more qualified than you?”
3. “While campaigning for the presidential nomination, your running mate mocked your oratorical effects on your fans and often suggested that you were all talk, no action. She was the fighter, and you were the talker. Has she changed her mind?”
4. “On the issue that you have often described as the single most important foreign policy matter of this new century, your running mate voted contrary to how you would have voted, and she later went on to describe your opposition to the Iraq war as either irrelevant or, later on, in synch with her own once you were in the Senate. If her vote was such a mistake, and her judgment so fallible, why is she in line to succeed you if something should cause you to be unable to serve as President?”
I don’t think it’s a good idea, Brad.
The DLC is a cancer. Let it die along with Hillary’s campaign.
Case in point:
Hillary Chief Strategist: North Carolina Loss Represented Progress Because We Won Among White Voters
By Greg Sargent – May 7, 2008, 11:15AM
What do very serious people think about the VP’s role in the attempted “interview” with Bush at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort?
Legalize,
As long as the Dems get their act together and focus all of their guns against McCain instead of each other, the GOP will be rightfully burried for a generation
From your keyboard to God’s/FSM’s/Cthulhu’s flat-screen monitor!
I don’t get some of the commenters at Talk Left.
They would seriously vote for McCain over Obama because Clinton isn’t going to be the nominee?!? After everything that has transpired over the past 8 years…they would vote for what amounts to a third Bush term because Clinton didn’t win the nomination? That is the dumbest thing I’ve heard. I’ve heard of sour grapes…but that is just idiotic.
My brain hurts…
Look, I’ve had some hard words for Clinton. I certainly disliked the tone of her campaign as it became clear to all (but her camp) that she had lost. However, I have to acknowledge that regardless of how I feel on the matter the following has to be considered:
1) She ran an almost successful campaign. Whether I agree with her methods or not, she put together a coalition of voters nearly as large as the presumptive nominee.
2) This voting block feels (however rightly or wrongly) that she has been unfairly treated this primary season, perhaps so badly that it cost her the nomination.
3) She is a talented candidate with several good policy ideas (gas tax holiday not withstanding).
I’m not saying we have to hold hands and sing kumbaya, but in the interests of not carrying a needless fight in the party on until November, it would be in everyone’s interest—especially the presumed nominee’s—if a proper consolation prize is awarded to her.
Personally I think that VP would not satisfy any of the interested parties. I think that if the DNC and Obama aren’t trying to figure out a semi-satisfactory position for her, then America really deserves 4 more years of the Bush administration. In any case, if it would get her to end this endless primary season on a personal high note, I’d reluctantly back it. My hope would be that otherwise however.
They can throw in MI & FL all they want, she’ll still lose. Her lead in FL was about 17% over Obama, but that still won’t put much of dent into his lead in total delegates. And the Michigan election was a joke, because there were only four candidates on the ticket out of the potential eight.
Put her in charge of Homeland Security…
Janet Napolitano? She’s popular in Arizona, but probably has a better option running for McCain’s Senate seat. Plus, she’s a committed bachelorette.
Good AG material. Good Supreme material. Not good Veep material.
Obama will pick a white man from an extremely boring church, Bill Richardson, or, if he really wants to offset McCain’s experience, Walter Mondale. I’m kidding about the last one, but it’s still a better choice than Hillary.
I officially endore Brad officially endorsing that Obama and Hillary endorse a unity ticket.
Oh yeah? Just wait.
Don’t you think all the progressives who just despise Clinton’s tactics right now will become her fans once she (and Bill) turn their sights directly on McCain? Which I guarantee you she will, once the primary is over, whether she wins the nomination or not. (She has openly and repeatedly said as much.)
Are they going to denounce the evil Clinton attack machine if it’s ravaging McCain, peeling off his teflon coating and making him look like the doddering, incompetent geezer with Tourette’s syndrome that he is? I don’t think so. I think they’ll be cheering her on, no matter how “Rovian” her tactics against McCain might be.
Remember, the Clintons don’t want to torpedo their legacy with the Party, neither do they want to have a losing Hillary primary campaign be their last turn on the political stage. Why would they? If she loses the primary, at least she’ll want to be seen as instrumental in a Democratic landslide in November.
Damn those extreme liberels with their undefined and malleable adgendads!
“…some very serious people believed Lyndon knew about it in advance even if he didn’t actually help set up the motorcade in Dallas”
No they don’t.
Dude. Didn’t say I was one of them, or that the idea remains current. But try googling “MacBird” if you don’t believe it existed.
1) I never said that I thought that’s what you believed.
2) Garson didn’t (and doesn’t) actually think that this is the case.
3) Anyone who does is, by definition, not a serious person.
I officially endorse C officially endorsing Brad officially endorsing that Obama and Hillary officially endorse a unity ticket even if C made a couple o’ typoes!
Joe Max, as long as Hillary’s machine is not stooping to bitching about how much sugar McCain uses or what color his underwear SHOULD be then it should be fine.
But if she and her ‘gang’ start using Rovian plays; the “Racist push-polls”, the “bogus election letters”, or “False police reports”, etc., then she and her ‘gang ‘can go take flying leap.
It’s SHIT POLITICS and that’s spelled G.O.P.
k?
Am I the first on this long thread to point out that “the stupid will never stop?” probably not, but it bears repeating.
aimai
My openly racist church is better than Barack Obama’s openly racist church because I am white. On the other hand, my openly racist church is better than Michelle Obama’s openly racist church for the same reason. Besides, Michelle Obama goes to an openly racist church.
And when she looses the election and the archangels come down from heaven with their swords and their swords of fire and their fire, I and my 139,999 fellow Jews will look down from heaven and laugh and laugh at Glenn Greenwald who will be throwing the biggest hissy fit of his life.
What the hell–why are all you DEMOCRATS deciding what’s best for the Democratic Party?! Don’t you know we’re supposed to wait for Karl Rove’s next column generously telling us what’s best for us?
Edwards for AG.
Webb of VA for V.P. Obama doesn’t need “the South” (he already has it) but Webb is blue-collarish and will kick ASS in the campaign.
Hillary for Majority Leader.
A flaming saguaro cactus, sideways, yes. In hi-def IMAX.
“…with an agenda”
OH NOES! NOT A POLITICAL PARTY WITH *GASP* AN AGENDA!!!! Eleven.
I haven’t been paying extreme close attention to this, but it does seem to me that the majority of this bullshit is coming from the Clinton camp. It is pretty pathetic.
But let’s be honest with ourselves here: y’all are going to vote for the Democrat, no matter who it is. Please, is there any chance in hell that either Clinton or Obama are a worse pick then McCain?
We’re in the middle of a process, one that has been drawn up and planned and prepared for. This is not a free for all Thunderdome deathmatch. In a few months a winning will be selected, and we can all move on. All the wingnuts rent their clothes and wailed and cried and stamped their wittle feet when their primary candidates started loosing to McCain; they all claimed they’d rather vote for a Democrat them him. Then he won, and now they’re throwing their weight behind him. Democrats are going to do the same thing.
Stop feeding the media and the right wing noise machine. This is reaching “Mac vs. PC” internet flame wars level.
Heh. Hillary on the Supreme Court. Imagine how the wingnut heads would assplode!!
Don’t you think all the progressives who just despise Clinton’s tactics right now will become her fans once she (and Bill) turn their sights directly on McCain? Which I guarantee you she will, once the primary is over, whether she wins the nomination or not. (She has openly and repeatedly said as much.)
Joe Max is spot on. You know, before the Internets there were political campaigns that featured intraparty squabbling LOTS worse than this. But elevated by endless navel gazing and bitching, Obama v. Clinton looks like the worst thing EVAH, even if it’s been pretty ordinary by political death match levels.
The point is, in the end, the party will coalesce around the nominee. And when Hillary does, she won’t even have to do much backtracking — certainly not less than HuggyBear McCain, whom Bush torpedoed as a nigger-loving Manchurian Candidate in 2000 and not less than George Bush I, who swallowed his manhood wholesale to get on the Gipper ticket in 1980.
This shit happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME. The people who will look the dumbest won’t be the Clintons — people do, after all, expect politicians to spin — it’ll be the fucktards on the Intertubes like Jerilyn, Talyor Marsh and the rest who have invested so much time convincing themselves of the Debbil Barack to the exclusion of honest discussion that they will no longer have a raison d’tre. Because they’ll find themselves in the position of having to disagree with Clinton regarding the nominee, or meekly submitting without the excuse that they are politicians.
I look forward to a return to slowly starving Iraqis to death, as we did under a Democratic president, rather than blowing them up with cluster bombs, as we do (with greater frequency) under Republican ones.
Really? I don’t. But while II don’t expect my government to do something so radical as to stop killing people, it would be nice. Even slowing down would be nice.
Nobody is getting out of this with clean hands.
Just the threat of a nomination could be very useful. Post-dem-winning-the-potus-election, I mean.
Sort of – “Well, you can pass the universal health coverage bill as is, or we can move to vote on Sen. Clinton’s appointment to fill Scalia’s seat.”
[idealism] I’ve been noting the number of comments on these past three posts and can’t help but thinking how this race has increased the level of participation in our participatory Democracy…
Even if
so manyseveral of our fellow citizens arecrazydifficult and holdidioticopinions different from ours, it’s a good thing that many of them are speaking up and getting involved.[end idealism]
I don’t hate you for suggesting it either, Brad.
I hate you because you’re beautiful.
“Are they going to denounce the evil Clinton attack machine if it’s ravaging McCain, peeling off his teflon coating and making him look like the doddering, incompetent geezer with Tourette’s syndrome that he is? I don’t think so. I think they’ll be cheering her on, no matter how “Rovian” her tactics against McCain might be.”
A primary challenger is an opponent. The other party’s nominee in the general is the enemy. There is a difference, and it matters.
I have been reading some of the All Hillary All the Time Blogs this morning and have come to the conclusion that the die-hard Clinton fans are convinced that Obama will not be elected because of teh “Black”.
I’ll admit that one year ago I would have agreed. Now not so much.
I am not suggesting that this line of reasoning is inherently racist, just that it seems to be foundational to the “electability” argument.
A racist is somebody I don’t like who, twenty years ago, said white people are racist.
I’m notoriously bad at prediction, but she’s not going to challenge Obama in Oregon.
I call fake Typical Republican.
Where’s the hmf?
CORRECTION:
A racist is somebody I don’t like who, twenty years ago, didn’t say white people are racist.
Liberals. Hmf.
Man, these days you just no more than take a look at the new Sadly post and the threads a hundred comments plus. That’s a good thing, I suppose, but I don’t have time to read the whole thread anymore.
Anyway, Brad, allow me to provide you with my reasoned viewpoint on your proposal.
NO! NONONONONONONONONOOOOOOO!!!
Obama represents the break from the clinton policies AND the bush/cheney policies and will hopefully deal with the entire process more intelligently, honestly and transparently.
He MUST NOT bring in a legacy from any of that which has gone before. He needs to burn that bridge, tear it down and bury it deep in a landfill to keep it’s stinking corpse from rising from the grave and shambling into the public policy discourse again.
My most profound hope is that he selects someone I’ve never, or only barely every heard of. Someone selected on the basis of beliefs and capabilities, someone who has an ability to discuss, honestly and calmly, and who can push an agenda of peace and sustainability and investment in america again. Someone absolutely NOT chosen for political reasons.
I don’t think it’s necessary. When tweety talks about “if he can’t win florida, he’ll have to take oregon and nevada” or some such twaddle, it’s because they simply cannot see, WILL not see that america will elect a moldy ham sammich before they allow mccain to continue to drive the car full speed towards the cliff.
Honestly. 100 years in iraq and 2 TRILLION dollars in new tax cuts?
What would america look like in 2012?
mikey
Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda Sickening Hollywood Christmas Obscene Biased Jane Fonda
I’m with you, Doodle. At least we are examining what it is to be a Democrat instead of blindly pulling the lever.
I don’t think that is too idealistic.
“Michelle Obama is racist.”
“Liberals are hateful.”
“Michelle Obama is racist.”
“Liberals are hateful.”
“Michelle Obama is racist.”
“Liberals are hateful.”
“Michelle Obama is racist.”
“Liberals are hateful.”
“Michelle Obama is racist.”
“Liberals are hateful.”
It must be wonderful to be a conservative! The things you want to be true become magically true just because you take your cue from the conservative media and say them over and over!
You don’t need any evidence or ambition or anything! You live off your trust fund and you get your servants to repeat your talking points and that makes them come true faster!
“Obama is unelectable.”
George W. Bush is a good president.”
“Obama is unelectable.”
George W. Bush is a good president.”
“Obama is unelectable.”
George W. Bush is a good president.”
“Obama is unelectable.”
George W. Bush is a good president.”
Feel better, little fella!
This?
“Well, you can pass the universal health coverage bill as is, or we can move to vote on Sen. Clinton’s appointment to fill Scalia’s seat.”
Oh shit, I so wanna be there when this happens.
I’m the real Typical Republican.
I was just so eager to put my two cents – which I got from the conservative media – in and do my part to make it come true by repeating it, that I forgot the hmf.
Liberals. Hmf.
Fake Typical Republicans spell “Hmf.” wrong.
Fake Typical Republicans. Hmf.
Hillary as VP strikes me as a very bad idea, a recipe for several years of nasty internal power struggles.
Still, political reality dictates that she be offered some senior post in a Democratic administration, and she could be very good in the right job. People have mentioned Senate Majority Leader – she might very well be great at that, but that position isn’t Obama’s to offer.
And I truly hope that Edwards winds up as AG or something comparably significant.
Woo! Fred Thompson! Or Newt Gingrich! Rick Santorum has plenty of free time! Man, there’re so many great choices.
Liberals are hateful.
It must be true because other conservatives say it over and over.
Liberals. Hmf.
The fact is, Bush IS a great President and McCain will be awesome as well. He will win because your people cannot — a woman and a black man, the liberal wetdream, but they are fighting each other so good. The economy is great, despite what the liberals say, they think class war will win them power. Here in the heartland, we who made good investments are doing fine.
Liberals were happy that so many Americans were killed on Sept. 11, 2001. And they are hateful.
Liberals. Hmf.
OT but I can’t believe this shit. Okay, I can believe it, I’m just gobsmacked. Faux Noise tries to tell what “class” means. At about 1:47 Mort Kondracked says “..working class democrats and working class whites and the rest of them are not lower class, they’re middle class.” Accompanied by lots of HA HA from the rest of the panel.
Seriously, he actually said that.
Teh stoopid never ends, nor does the bigotry.
Gary Ruppert
Liberals are racist. And they want to see America fail. And they are the same as Nazis. And they are hateful.
Liberals. Hmf.
(Of course, what I really want is a political system that’s not full of shit and that offers some real choices… but that’s another story.)
Can the Democrats run a threesome? Obama for prez, Clinton for VP, Edwards for…I dunno, underveep?
At about 1:47 Mort Kondracked says “..working class democrats and working class whites and the rest of them are not lower class, they’re middle class.” Accompanied by lots of HA HA from the rest of the panel.
The fact is, he is correct. The class warfare does not play well in the heartland, and we know how to survive tough times, the liberals are concerned that Starbucks will raise prices more than gas prices.
america will elect a moldy ham sammich before they allow mccain
Ummm, I’m confused. There’s a difference between mccain and a moldy ham sammich?
The fact is, Obama is black. His minister is racist. His wife is racist and she hates America. Most blacks are racist because they hate whites, and want reparations for slavery. They should just work harder, like we do here in the heartland. They try to playon white guilt, but here in the heartland, its not working.
Yeah. A moldy ham sammich doesn’t call mrs. sammich a cunt.
George W. Bush is a good president. John McCain is not a senile, flip-flopping hack. America will not vote for a black man or a woman. It is liberals who are racist. Everybody in the Heartland thinks exactly the same way. The economy is great. The wealthy never fight the class war.
I know it’s all true because I heard other conservatives say it over and over again.
Liberals. Hmf.
My dingo just died after nearly 108 days – he was the parasitic deranged love of my rancid grief-inducing life. He took a tetrahedron to the brain and died irrelevantly some days thereafter. Sometimes there’s just too much sad news, ya know?
Yeah. A moldy ham sammich doesn’t call mrs. sammich a cunt.
Heh.
The fact is, my friends, what we need is a little straight talk. We need jobs and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and jobs and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk and and roads and good judges and jobs and a little more straight talk andzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…….
The fact is, liberals ignore the Heartland at their own peril. McCain will win in November. said,
May 7, 2008 at 19:41
Gary Ruppert
You win the internetz
What a GREAT speech by John McCain! He was BRILLIANT!
The fact is, here in the Heartland, we are greatful to Brent Bozell, Bill O-Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Jonah Goldberg, Sean Hannity and Anne Coulter and Laura Ingraham who tell the truth about liberals and the danger our nation is in because of how much they hate themselves and us. The liberal media is out of control and full of lies and spin, it should be outlawed for all the lies, or at leas there should be more of the other side. But liberals like their dictatorship of ideas, in the media and in the schools. That is why they want to silence great voices like Fox news and close all the churches and home schools, where, here in the heartland we are fighting back.
Yeah. A moldy ham sammich doesn’t call mrs. sammich a cunt.
Aaaahh, got it! Thanks!
DAVID BROOKS SAYS McCain’s speech was “brilliant.” Indeed.
The fact is, Obama is black.
Gary actually said something that is true collwing “the fact is”
The universe is sucking into a vortex
Tell Janus I’m sorry about the dog.
The fact is, God will entervene in this election as he did in 2004 to save the republic from elite effete liberal defeatism.
The Obamas are racists. Liberals, especially the Obamas, hate America and are racists. Black people are racists. (But white people are not racist.) All black people want are reparations. Black people are lazy. Black people are voting for Obama because they are black. Liberal white people are voting for Obama because they think slavery and Jim Crow were bad things. Liberals are hateful. (And racist. Did I say they are racist?)
Liberals. Hmf.
Gary Ruppert said,
May 7, 2008 at 19:52
The fact is, God will entervene in this election as he did in 2004 to save the republic from elite effete liberal defeatism.
Give McCain A Heart attack, sicne Obama has actually been seen in a church?
The fact is, liberals cannot run on outlawing God or making us all convert to Islam and Shania Law, which is what they want. Here in the heartland, we see through it.
is Typical republican a Parody…I can’t tell anymore
What about the Muslims in teh Heartland?
The fact is, Islam is the greatest enemy our civilization has ever faced. They want to destroy us. Therefore we should destroy them first. We should deport all Muslims to where they came from if they will not convert.
The pundits who agree with me are the only good people in the world. Criticizing Fox News is the same as wanting to close it down. The media is liberal. Academia is liberal. Liberals want to ban the Bible and close the churches. Everyone in the heartland thinks exactly the same as me. Jesus loves Republicans and only Republicans.
(Just keep saying it. Just keep saying it.)
Liberals. Hmf.
The muslims among us are a fifth column, and we are in danger from them. We should deport themor ,put them in camps until the War On Islam is over. or until they renounce Allah (who is really Satan) and embrace Jesus Christ as their personal savior.
I started out that way. But it is very comforting to think that things become true if they get repeated enough. So I’m thinking of converting.
Kiera Knightley is my girlfriend.
Kiera Knightley is my girlfriend.
Kiera Knightley is my girlfriend.
Liberals. Hmf.
Oh, Gary. Don’t be a hater. God loves you and wants you to preach to the Heathen Chinese. Go on, young Christian soldier, hide inside the nearest boat to China and tell them the Good News. God wants you to.
Go. Shoo.
The fact is, in its native German, “the fact is” IS “Arbeit Macht Frei”.
We must kill everyone who doesn’t think the same as us. That is the way to peace in the world. Look at how well things are going in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. We should do the same thing in Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia. And France. I am not a heartless, delusional wanker.
Liberals. Hmf.
So we should wait until after they’re destroyed before we convert them… I guess that would make it easier.
Yeah, lots of traffic here!
Obama needs someone to balance the “he’s so young and inexperienced” thing. NOT Hillary! Richardson, mebbe, or Dodd?
I think Hil can go after Senate Majority Leader herself and get it!
And McCain lost 27% of the Republican vote in NC – who’d they go for, Hucky?
elite effete liberal defeatism.
*swoon*
I forgot what led me there, but a couple of weeks ago, there was a decidedly vote-for-St BBQ-as-vengeance-if-Hillary-loses vibe going on at the Tennessee Guerilla Women blog.
It just struck me as ever so classy that they’d consider throwing Obama under the bus if he wins the nomination and support a gold-digging crank of a wingnutty old man who called his wife a “cunt” and a “trollop” in the event their preferred candidate doesn’t win.
I started out backing Edwards going into this, and while i was on the fence for a good while after he dropped out, I’m having an easier time getting behind Obama of late. There is no way in hell i would want a Clinton-Edwards 3rd party ticket splitting the vote and paving the way for Cranky McCarpetbag to ease his way into the White House. That said, if Clinton does somehow manage to finagle a win, she’ll have my vote come November, because my main interest is going to be clearing the stench of the Bush Assministration and the GOP in general from 1600 Pennsylvania
I wasn’t aware that Mexico was actually the heartland of America, seeing as Gary Ruppert got deported there months ago.
The fact is,
Islamthe Soviet Union is the greatest enemy our civilization has ever faced. They want to destroy us. Therefore we should destroy them first. We should deport allMuslimspinko Commies to where they came from if they will not convert.Sound familiar, Gary?
They’re recycling the Cold War and you are too young and too dense to see through it, so you mindlessly parrot what you are told.
How does it feel to be nothing but a tool?
That said, if Clinton does somehow manage to finagle a win, she’ll have my vote come November, because my main interest is going to be clearing the stench of the Bush Assministration and the GOP in general from 1600 Pennsylvania
Yeah. There really is a bit of the narcissism of small differences going on between some in the Democratic party of late. I wish they would stop.
The fact is, Gay Puppet Gary Ruprecht whatever the hell that thing is has got to be one of the lamest pardoy trolls in the history of the intertoobz. (I think I can speak with some authority as one of the creators of BIFF@BIFFNET.NET, long before there were pictures on this thing)
Which makes me think it’s not a parody troll at all, but actually serious. In any case, the lameosity factor is astonishing. Give it up, child. Come back when you develop a capability for wit, acuity, satire, sarcasm, or parody. Just stop already.
I can’t speak for Gary … Well, actually I can since we get our talking points from the same place … but I feel just fine being a tool. Things become true just because you say them over and over again! And it’s much easier than thinking. Just keep saying the same stupid shit over and over. And check periodically with Rush or Ann or Bill or Sean and find out what the meme of the day is.
You elitists don’t know what you’re missing. By not thinking for myself, I have lots of extra time for the important things. Like Cheet-os and Mountain Dew!
Liberals. Hmf.
P.S. The Obamas are racists!
VP Clinton?
It’s a nice idea on paper – except for 2 things.
1 – it hurts Dems by keeping the animosity alive (they REALLY dislike each other, from what I’ve seen) & galvanizes a moribund GOP right when it’s on its knees
2 – HRC wants the Real Thing, not 2nd-place; no way will she go for it
But the idea of them fighting McCain instead of each other is about 3 months overdue. Dems haven’t had a target this easy to hit since Bush Sr. in 1992 – & even compared to Papa Shrub, McCain’s about as lucid & loveable as Ross Perot. He’s ripe for the picking & they’re both obviously warmed-up by now.
THE STUPID!! IT BURNS!!!!!
lol
I think we should toss um both and have Gore that will piss of the REDZ!!!!
I am not suggesting that this line of reasoning is inherently racist, just that it seems to be foundational to the “electability” argument.
Did you notice all the bitching and moaning about how “the blacks” are racist because they voted for Obama in such high percentages? About not wanting the party to be controlled by the “urban voters”? That and worse is all over Taylor Marsh’s comment sections from last night. It got real ugly there as the results came in. In the post announcing that Obama had won NC about half of the first 200 comments were demands to get Obama’s “ugly mug” off the top of the post. Eventually the blogger complied and put up a picture of the NC state flag in its place. Today she’s dealing with the fact that her commentariat has turned on her for beginning to admit that it’s over and felt compelled to say this in comments:
Looks like her readers are going to abandon her and it couldn’t happen to a nicer person.
It got even uglier at Tennessee Guerilla Women. In this post where egalia called D. Aristophanes a class warrior for his Ramengate post, the “OMG blacks are racist” thing degenerates into Michelle Obama being called a “planet of the apes bitch” and now they’re implying Barry is gay. My experience with that site is that she’ll let those kind of comments stand unchallenged but if you point out the ugliness your comment might get deleted.
Russ Feingold for VP.
Geographically, it doesn’t help the ticket. But it might help with white men and Jewish voters.
Not to mention that he’s my hero.
Running mate:
1. someone you select to pander to demographics who would otherwise not vote for you (in Obama’s case, the target group is “white, lower to middle class”)
2. someone to be your attack dog during the general.
While Hill’s may meet these two criterion, I can’t see her comparing to Johnny Knoxville. VP Jackass, you know you want it.
Hillary Clinton is a joke. I’d never vote for her. She can take her war vote and Rovian campaign and her sleazy husband and their multimillion dollar book deals and do what she wants, but I will vote for McCain with a sick smile on my face if the “Democrats” try to put her up as the nominee. I would have voted for any of the other Democrats running (except maybe Biden). Obama wasn’t “my candidate”. I would happily vote for Obama, though. The nomination of Hillary Clinton would be a slap in the face for me. I have been saying that for several years, before I even knew who else would be running. We were railroaded into voting for John “I’m going to fight a smarter war” Kerry in ’04. Enough is enough. Until these idiots are knocked off, there will be no chance of any kind of change in this country. Clinton spent the last few months tearing down Obama with a despicable campaign. Vice President? Dump her ass.
I don’t know if Obama will do much of anything, but at least he might. Clinton voted for the war and still defends that vote. She voted for the war. She voted for the war. Get it?
this whole Obama candidacy is an orchstrated event right down to the choreographed efforts of MSM’s and SD’s
The candidacy is a performance of Swan Lake?
This should get Mikey started on his dislike of ballet.
Obama/Webb 08.
Game over, man.
We should deport all Muslims to where they came from if they will not convert.
And if’n they come from here, then we should clap them in dungeons, torture them with hot irons, the rack and such like and do that… whachamacallit… auto-dee-fay on their sorry brown asses!
Hey, it worked for the Spanish! There are hardly any Jews in Spain any more.
(And if I am parodying a parody, then so be it. As I’ve said, it’s impossible to parody wingnuts any more.)
I’m with the Great Orange Satan on this one:
Richardson or Sebelius
She is a better speaker than her appearance on TV earlier this year would suggest. He has truly unassailable foreign policy experience.
Hillary + Shark Pen + Water Skis + Lather Jacket = You get the picture.
Lather Jacket. That sounds kinda hot in a sudsy bathtub sort of way…
Did I ever mention that Hill spoke at my High School in 1991 and I had a crush on her for a while…
Now I’m just disappointed. (Plus, I hear she doesn’t do oral, and that’s a deal breaker in my book.)
save the republic from ephebic epigones and their elite effete liberal defeatism.
Fixed.
They need to put their EGOs aside and focus on America and world issues. Puhleaze…
If Hillary’s in a lather – and clearly she is – it’s because she’s getting on in years and this is her last kick at the big can. She’s thinking she’ll never get another opportunity and any other position she could possibly hold would fall short of the presidency. Well, too bad, so sad. It’s not about you, ok Hillary?
Think of what you can do for your country and not what it can do for you…especially after um you voted to invade Iraq. Besides, you’re rich beyond anyone’s wildest dreams and can do pretty much anything you want with your life. Have some gratitude. Ditto for every other politician whose life is sugar-coated.
I’m a ‘flip flopper’. I was for Hillary Clinton before I was against her. That said, I heartily agree that we should have a ‘unity’ ticket. I’ve never seen this party so divided. Having Hillary as VP would go along way in healing the rifts over this increasingly bitter nomination battle. (and I’m excited as hell about the prospect as I adore them both!)
steve evfuture said,
Hillary Clinton…can take her war vote and Rovian campaign and her sleazy husband and their multimillion dollar book deals and do what she wants, but I will vote for McCain with a sick smile …
You honestly think McCain is a better bet than Hillary? COME ON! Don’t be sick in the head. I mean, please…I don’t like H. for a variety of reasons, but I’d never vote for McCain (if I could vote), you couldn’t pay me to vote for that mentally deranged hypocritical Bush-appeasing scutzbag.
Hillary would never accept a VP job. VPs (with the exception of Cheney) haven’t got much power or prestige. A powerful president keeps his VP under wraps usually. The only reason Cheney has power is because Bush is lazy, inept and disinterested in the job. Obama could always give her a high profile job like Secretary of State/Foreign Affairs chief..something along those lines.
“I will vote for McCain with a sick smile on my face if the “Democrats” try to put her up as the nominee.”
See, that’s what makes you dead fucking wrong. If you think more war and more conservative supreme court justices are what this country needs, then by all means, please vote for McCain out of spite. Otherwise, pull your head out of your ass and enjoy the rush of oxygen to your brain.
this whole Obama candidacy is an orchstrated event right down to the choreographed efforts of MSM’s and SD’s
Building on that, I just want to advise you that here in New Zealand, our election campaigns are not only orchestrated (the full Mahlerian orchestra, with a choir and Wagner tubas and everything) — with choreographed roles for the media — but we perform them on ice.
Some election years it’s Swan Lake, but in 2005 it was Sleeping Beauty. There’s talk of staging Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet for this year.
We’re way ahead of you.
If we stop all of a sudden, it’d be like admitting that killing Iraqi kids is wrong, and America never admits wrongdoing. We’ll just have to taper off slowly, like we got bored with it.
Smut, every election here is Giselle.
The big problem with Obama offering Hillary the Veep spot? In his electoral battleground, the Clintons are still hated. It just doesn’t make sense to have her on a ticket that looks west, and that’s a pity. But it’s less of a pity if you think of it as a campaign that’s getting past Kerry 2004 (throw everything into Florida and Ohio) and building on 2006’s inroads.
Schweitzer of Montana, Sebelius of Kansas, possibly Kaine or Clark. Richardson has scuttlebutt around him that the GOP slime machine would love. Schweitzer would be good because he’s the opposite of Cheney.
Oh, good, keep flogging the Ralph Nader bromide.
I liked John Kerry, and I even had a certain affection for Al Gore. Confession is good for the soul, they say.
I felt the same way about both of them.
If I wasn’t totally down with Kerry’s foreign policy, it still seemed worlds better than Bush’s. Plus, Kerry had other good features such as: detailed programs for the advancement and training of young female entrepreneurs, a medical focus on AIDS, and other stuff like that. & Gore is the man- I totally don’t see why people find him stiff. He just seems normal and calm to me.
“And check periodically with Rush or Ann or Bill or Sean”
I read this as “check periodically with Rush or Ann or Bill or Satan” and I thought, yup, that’s about right.
And Lesley, didn’t you get the memo? Not only is Hillary in a lather; she’s in a lather jacket!
If she would take a cabinet position, which I kinda doubt since it’d be kind of a step down from the Senate, I think, then don’t even think of her as Sec. of State. Seriously, it’s her foreign policy that has always been the deal-breaker: on war and on trade, she’s basically a Republican. Sec. of Energy or Interior? Ok. AG? Maybe, though we could sure as hell do better. Defense? Sure- that’s one place where maybe it’s acceptable to have a hawk.
But any position where she’d actual make foreign policy?
No. Hell, no.
Probably a moot point anyway- I agree with those who think her ego wouldn’t permit her to take any position under Obama, and I doubt Obama’s dumb enough to put her and Bill in a position to undermine him at every turn.
Smut, every election here is
GiselleGigli.All better.
Webb or Hillary for VP? Nah — We don’t need no stinkin’ Republican lite VP. Given the Bush record and with Grandpa McCain as an opponent, we have a chance to get some real progressives like Russ Feingold or Edwards elected.
Gore is the man- I totally don’t see why people find him stiff.
Because a small group of highly-paid pundits told them he was.
Sweet fucking jeebus on a pogo stick, did anyone read through that thread? Were there any democrats posting? It seemed to me as though every single one of them would be more than content to vote for the next iteration of chimpy mcnasty because their girl couldn’t pull it off.
And I’m not Obama fan. I dislike him a little less than Hillary and mainly because I think she’s run a truly crapulent campaign. No matter what, the idea of voting for or helping vote into office another rethug makes me want to vomit. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
Holy shit. Maybe I need to spend more time reading at some of these other sites. Maybe I should just avoid stupid like that altogether.
I’ve liked Obama all along but I’m Canadian, so who cares?
The problem with Hillary hanging in with her phoney grin and stagey tough-guy act until the bitter end is that it could be August.
That only leaves about three months for the important campaign.
I mean the one against the GOP.
Wouldn’t it be better to get it together now and start campaigning against McCain?
Or have I finally gone completely nuts.
With the conversation going on here, I don’t think that the democrats will be uniting anytime soon. I think that the “reagan republicans” who used to be , caucasian blue collar dems, dixiecrats, or moderate silent majorityiers will prefer to have a republican in the white house again.
C’mon, people – let’s think outside the box. Don’t just ask, DEMAND Jonah Goldberg for Vice President, and let’s put A PANTLOAD IN EVERY POT!1!111!1
I still maintain the reason Gore 2000 sucked was Lieberman. Everything about him stunk to high heaven already, which I wasn’t surprised to see him latch on to the neoconservatives afterwards.
But disliking a politician based on his opinion on video games was considered Unserious, so nobody listened to me.
Gore + someone not awful would’ve been great. Gore + That Man… well, I was lucky I was 17 and unable to vote in 2000, or else I could’ve made a terrible decision in Florida’s election. As it was, I just got to watch everyone else make a terrible decision.
Wow, 5 minutes spent perusing the posts and comments at Talkleft and I’m forced to ask yet again: why, oh why do I belong to a party of people who would rather tear each other’s heads off than actually come together to win an election?
Memo to the bitter (yes, BITTER) Talkleft crazies: you’re gonna vote third party because Obama’s supporters hurt your feelings in the primary? Hey, great. President-elect McCain thanks you for your support.
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Yes the stupid does need to stop. How about not resorting to BIll O’Reilly/Michelle Malkin standards and posting comments from blogs like they mean anything? I mean WTF.