Thomas Frank is making sense
Holy freaking crap, does Thomas Frank ever get a gigantic “Heh-Indeedy” for this:
If Barack Obama or anyone else really cares to know what I think, I will simplify it all down to this. The landmark political fact of our time is the replacement of our middle-class republic by a plutocracy. If some candidate has a scheme to reverse this trend, they’ve got my vote, whether they prefer Courvoisier or beer bongs spiked with cough syrup. I don’t care whether they enjoy my books, or would rather have every scrap of paper bearing my writing loaded into a C-47 and dumped into Lake Michigan. If it will help restore the land of relative equality I was born in, I’ll fly the plane myself.
Memo to Clinton and Obama supporters: your candidates’ differences are vastly smaller than their similarities. Also: they’re politicians. Politicians are not saviors. Politicians are there to be used to achieve political goals. As long as you elect one of them that isn’t actively hostile to your interests – and let’s be honest, neither HRC nor Barry X are in the same category as Holy Joe Lieberman – then it isn’t all that important which one of them gets in. I supported Obama mostly because he was right on the Iraq war from the start and I thought it was important for that particular viewpoint to get the mainstream cred in the press that it deserves. But other than that, I honestly don’t care. Both of them have similar strengths and weaknesses. Both are vastly better than St. BBQ.
That is all.
(Also, I should’ve stuck to my guns from the beginning and become a fanatical Mike Gravel supporter. Oh wellz, that’s water under teh bridge and whatnot.)
I’ll support Hillary over McCain, she’s about a hundred times better than Big John McFlipflopper. (That’s no compliment.)
But watching her scorched earth policy of the last few months, I hope it doesn’t come to that. I’m starting to think she really DID kill Vince Foster with her bare hands.
But did Gravel have a blimp?
Sadly, No!
Of course you’re right, brad. But damn, the stench of desperation emanating from the Clinton campaign is really dispiriting.
I’ll vote for her, if it comes to that.
I’m starting to think she really DID kill Vince Foster with her bare hands.
When “The Clintons”, Sean Hannity’s blockbuster bestseller about how Hillary and Bill are single-handedly responsible for the invasion from space of the Ant People, comes to virtual reality movie theaters around the globe in 2029, what semi-ironic boomer-era singer-songwriter song will be playing in the background during this scene? I’m going to say “I Feel The Earth Move”.
WTF? When did the wsj start printing sense?
I’ll vote for either Obama or Clinton simply for the fact that I’m still trying to atone for the Andre Marrou vote I cast in 1992.
Hillary Clinton voted to kill hundreds of thousands of people to help her presidential campaign. She certainly knew Bush was lying. It was a calculated decision and showed a complete lack of moral courage the one time it really mattered. There can be no bigger difference than that. Her disgusting Rovian presidential campaign is annoying and enough of a reason not to vote for her, but the war vote is all that really matters. I don’t care what she does in her personal life, but that isn’t the issue. The issue is the war. It always was. I would never vote for her.
Noooooo! Don’t listen to him! Don’t compromise at all! Keep paying attention to ridiculous character issues! Don’t investigate stuff on your own! Listen to the media! Listen to me! Obama is eeeeevil! Hillary is eeeeeevil!
Noooooooooo! I’m meeeeellllting! Meeeeellllting!
In Gavel’s case, that should be “it’s all water splashed out of the pond by the big rock.”
(Same as it ever was, same as it ever was…)
Hey, it’s that really irrelevant guy who pretends to be Ralph Nader.
Hi, Nader Hater! How’s that “being a total asshole” thing working out for you? Getting all the chicks, I bet!
How come anyone says that we should vote for whoever gets the nominee, the Naderbot gets all fired up?
And how come the Naderbot is a semi-regular commenter here who is too cowardly to own up to his obsession?
Inquiring minds want to know…
I favor Obama myself, but I sometimes wonder if what is needed to defeat St. John of the Desert is exactly the kind of character assassination campaign the Clintons are running.
Oh, and I see Glennzilla says much the same thing in this new book he just wrote.
…er, nomination…
Here’s my point: Nader, a Halliburton stockholder, war profiteer, and McCain buddy, benefited from our media’s ridiculous focus on the banal and the glossy. Nader was billed as the ol’ champion of citizen/consumer rights, which he ONCE was…but any investigation below the surface revealed him to be a backstabbing enabler. The creation of “Nader” in 2000, along with the ubiquitous Clenis “issue,” were the big jump starts to the rotten media situation we have now.
It would behoove many people to realize that their support in St. Ralph was just a gear in the machine that has recently given us Obamacan’tbowlgate, Bittergate, et al. Elsewise the big picture is lost.
Some Hillbots are big into this as a reason why Obama would falter if nominated…it’ll take a mean, calculating machine to battle the incoming wingnut onslaught, etc.
Just one problem: HRC’s been taking her cues from Rovian talking points, so I’m not sure how that’s gonna work against McCain. Nor am I able to see how, after months of painting Obama as a wimpy, elitist fraud, she’ll then be able to paint McCain as a warmongering nutso. It’ll eventually boil down to the Clinton campaign blistering anyone and everyone who is un-Hillary and, um, that won’t work.
But isn’t Nader a classic Straw-man? His influence was minuscule next to the Republican voting machine’s consolidated push to disenfranchise voters.
That is the point. For every vote that went to Nader, 3-4 were simply not allowed or tossed out.
So by dwelling on Nader, and not the outright cheating, you are playing into their hand. They want you to think Nader single-handedly threw the 2000 election, which statistically is a falsehood.
Oh christ, it’s Deja Thread.
Seems to me I’ve heard this song before.
I’m pretty sure I know everybody’s position on “will hillary”, “won’t hillary”, “won’t obama”, “will mccain”, “won’t mccain” and “I’ll sit this one out”.
We seem delighted to keep shouting our positions at each other.
It’s all beginning to seem like a vaudeville routine.
Once more. The primary season ended in March. The media doesn’t want to say so because the ‘horserace’ moves product.
Hillary doesn’t want to quit ’cause she’s got nothing to lose but her supporter’s money, and who knows? A miracle COULD happen.
Except, no. Barack Obama is the nominee.
We should just quit encouraging them…
mikey
So…… Just curious….. Um, does that bong hit w/ cought syrup thing work? You know, hrmmph, just from a scientific point of view, er…. Not that I would try it myself, ah….. Just, uh…..
So, does it get good then, or what?
Fardels,
As I remember, from way back in my college days, a beer bong is a little different than a bong hit. How about a beer bong spiked with a shot of whiskey, followed by bong hit with cough syrup as a chaser?
It works if you want to feel floaty for a minute, then pass out for a few hours.
We called them Robo-tokes (After Robatussin).
I’ve broken in a bong in before with Jagermeister. We took the toke, then emptied out the bong into a shot glass and drank it.
It was at that moment that I realized that the liquid smoke industry was just a bunch of BBQ obsessed stoners.
The point is not that Nader helped Bush steal the election (he didn’t), but rather, that he was a Bushie from the start, and the lefties aaaaadored him anyway. This is a very, very, VERY dangerous precedent.
You know how we act when Matt Yglesias goes on a rampage? Like, that’s nice Matt, would have helped had you been like this in ’03? Like, that’s nice Matt, but how can we trust that you won’t give support to the other side again just off of ridiculous impulses? This should be how we feel about the old Nadroids. It’s nice that you’ve risen to the challenge and have admitted that yeah, the Wingnut Front is a dangerous thing and should be fought tooth-n-nail…but how can we trust that you won’t go kissy-kissy to another wolf in sheepskin down the line? How can we ever trust you again if you don’t even make the slightest attempt at reconciliation?
Good for you that you’ve decided to compromise now. I hope- pray- that this is not a one-time event.
Ah, but that’s the beauty of cribbing Rover’s notes. She already knows the tactics work against McCane. Plus, we all know Rove-style attacks don’t have to make sense, be consistent or even true. She could paint McDaddy as an wimpy elitist warmongering nutso fraud (with a black love child) if she wanted. Maybe she’ll buy up those leftover Purple Heart bandages. Anything can happen when you follow the RoveTastic Playbook and the media will OoooOooOo! like Jerry Springer’s audience and need to change its collective pants.
So if one person ever votes for someone you don’t like, they are forever written off, D.N?
It’s this kind of condescension:
…that gets you called a troll.
How can we trust that you won’t be a self-righteous ass down the line?
What an interesting way to summize my argument. By interesting, I mean “wrong.”
Here is the correct way:
If one person ever votes for THE FREAKING ENEMY because they’re enamored with the media’s ad hoc plotline, D.N. Nation thereafter wonders if that person will do it again. Additionally, that person’s inability to see how their own deeds/words were of the same machine that’s currently spitting out garbage against Obama makes D.N. Nation wonder if that person can really understand the problem.
You can’t, because I will. Deep convictions are funny that way.
This plan appears to surreal to work.
Appears.
T4toby – I think you incorrectly attributed that to DN Nation, rather than Nader troll.
-Guv
I guess you win…something.
Yay!
Guv- I’m the “Nader troll.”
Toby-
This is exactly what I’m talking about.
Yeah, you wouldn’t want people going around trying to improve their surroundings so that they can afford to be home owners in 5-6 years, because that plays into the hands of the…Gentrifiers?
Effin’ Gentrifiers. They cost Dukakis the Presidency, don’t you know. Anyone who has ever leased a broken-down fixer-upper in order to one day have a tiny bit of this earth to call home is and will never be worthy of my respect…
Better?
Steve, why the hell would you endorse McCain (either by voting him or not voting for Hillary) if that’s how you feel? He’s gonna be a lot worse on the moral courage front. He can’t even admit he was wrong.
One of my speculations has been that the Republican win-at-all-costs identity-politics slash-and-burn tactics are now ingrained into our CULTURE. We take them as normal, we assume the way one “plays” the game is a sign of how well they’d do as president, which is like arguing that a person capable of running a marketing department is capable of designing the product as well.
In short, this is our “normal” from the last few years. It keeps us very abstracted from actual issues because we’re too busy “playing the game.”
Nader was a Bushie?
I’ll take a hit of whatever you’ve got there..
Was too stoned to comment in the 4/20 thread, but I read something that seemed related this morning
<blockquoteRecently disclosed Pentagon documents indicate that the gas has a dissemination radius of four to eight miles, and that neither protective masks nor a positive outlook on life can prevent infection. Symptoms include uncontrollable sighing, repeated utterances of the phrase “What’s the use?” a confusion and bitterness regarding one’s place in the universe, and an increased proclivity to listen to Lou Reed records.
If one’s skin comes into contact with the agent, the physical effects are more severe. These include a sudden numbing of the very soul, a feeling that one is being crushed under the weight of the emptiness all around him, and mild eye irritation.</blockquote
actually, I prefer a good sativa to ennui weed…
So wordpress is just fucking with us a little now?
You forgot to close the blockquote, methinks.
Nutella,
Voting for Clinton is saying to any future politician that they should vote for whichever bogus “war of choice” is put on the table, since it won’t matter and might even help them in the future. So there is a practical reason for my position if you think I need one. Here’s a simple solution: have the Democrats stop putting up candidates who voted to kill hundreds of thousands of people in order to help their presidential campaign. I don’t care whether Hillary Clinton or John McCain show a bigger lack of moral courage. And Hillary Clinton has never apologized for her murderous vote. So she gives double talk about why she made the vote and John McCain stands behind his vote. If that’s the criteria, McCain is showing more moral courage than Clinton anyway.
Basically, Steve would be fond of America imploding, because at least it’d show some damn umph in doing so.
Toby- We just aren’t going to see eye-to-eye, if that’s how you’re going to characterize everything I say. Peace.
Yes, that’s what we call people with Halliburton ties, Clenis obsessions, save-Terri inclinations, McCain friendships, etc.
Was working in the preview…
God, can we please get this friggin election over? I like Obama and all, but it feels like we’re picking the captain of the Titanic.
We are. Pick wisely.
Gee, maybe I’m missing something…I’m pretty sure the first, last and only poster to bring up Nader was…you, D.N.
Don’t look now but your obsession is showing.
Well, I was an Edwards fan. Of the three early possible winners, he was the one speaking to this issue. However fucked up, poorly thought out and utterly contemptible the Iraq war is, the class war that has been waged, and virtually won with little more than a whimper from the losers, over the last three decades, but particularly during this administration, is really the defining issue of our time. No less a dude than Warren Buffett said in an interview some time back something to the effect of “Of course there’s a class war going on, and we’re winning.” In the same interview he brought up how ridiculous it is that his overall tax burden is actually less than his secretary’s. Ah, the joys of a 15% capital gains rate.
I don’t see Hil doing an awful lot to reverse the trend, though she’d not be the sort of tool McSame would be. Oh, and it wasn’t her bare hands she killed Foster with. She tore out his beating heart with her teeth and ate it as it tried to pump. Everything that says otherwise is just a big coverup by alien greys and their Bilderburg robots.
Just because Obama has been fairly nice so far doesn’t mean he won’t take the gloves off in the general. I don’t think he’s a dumb guy, and he doesn’t seem to be listening to dumb people. I have a feeling that should the race require it, there’s a deep enough well of “fuck you too” available to him. Bog knows, there’s plenty of target.
Whoever gets in, just trying to repair our federal government to a pre-2000 level is going to be job one, and a rough one at that. After eight years of slash and burn, scorched earth Executive Branch policy, they will be starting from scratch at best. If they don’t fire everybody, in every agency, down to the janitors, that has been put in in the last eight years, they are a fool.
Then, after rebuilding it to resemble a functional government again, rather than the wingnut welfare office and political toolshed it has become, they can think about how to return it to its rightful owners. This all while the right screams bloody murder about everything they fucked up in the last administration is all the new guy’s fault, and are being as obstructionist as humanly possible and screaming about how ineffective the new guy is.
Anyway, sure, I’ll vote Hil over gramps, but I hope not to have to. Real change is going to have to start with Congress anyway. ’06 was a good start. It put the brakes on some truly outrageous bullshit, but was hardly a cure-all. It’s looking good for our chances to pick up more in November, but ten Senate seats is a bit much to ask. Even if we win, and win big, this time, the fight is hardly over.
If you want to stop the plutocracy, you’ll have to do better than “BO and HRC are quite similar”. In this respect they are not. She is in the deep pockets of some mighty big businesses.
Deep convictions are funny like that. I’m also “obsessed” about the Bill of Rights. What a freak I am!
Oh, no D.N. Don’t try to engage me in a “substantive discussion”, I’m only here for the fart jokes.
But, Nader’s framing of society as controlled by corporate oligarchies seems pretty accurate, despite his shitty, triangulating decision to use their money, I don’t know, lemme rub some more anusol on my eyes and get back to you.
DN–
I presume you’ve got links to show that Nader is a Halliburton stockholder and that he has ties to McCain and that you are not, say, pulling these things out of your ass. You do have such evidence, right? Please show it.
Voting Democrat when shit candidates are running is not the only option, and the 2000 election was Gore’s to lose–and he did, without help. Nader and other third-party candidates are not the problem; an out-of-touch Democratic Party is a much greater problem.
But hey, get excited about trifles and make shit up. It’s kinda cute.
Bollocks. He and his part should never have let it get close enough to be stolen, but stolen it was.
Voting Democrat when shit candidates are running is not the only option
Clearly, this is an accurate statement. Just as clearly, if you didn’t vote for Gore in 2000, you are at least partially responsible for the mess we’re in now. Nader’s “the major parties are the same” bullshit didn’t really wash then, and it damn sure doesn’t wash now.
Ralph Nader is secretly a fucking pelican.
Oh, like we’re going to take a badger’s word for it.
I still can’t forget that weasel ticket you voted for in Ought Six.
Ralph Nader, John McCain, Scott Bakula, The Rock, and Vlad Tepes are the secret heads of the Bavarian Illuminati and operate the world’s biggest pedophile ring. Also, Ralph Nader smells bad, and I hate hi–bzrrt-thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph! thanksralph! thanksralph! halliburton! thanksralph!
The guy should blog. He’s that good.
.
It was supposed to be a ferret. In hindsight, they look pretty weasely now.
Fucking Democrats.
Clinton the first was worse than the republicans!
Empire Lite, NAFTA, no reluctance to bomb the shit out of various countries and perpetuate exceptionalism, with ribs and a brew!
Better to be slowly boiled by the democrats, or thrown right in by the republicans…hmmm..
If only Gore could have more convincingly frenched his wife, or perhaps, as some advisers suggested, pretended to guard Bush in the debate, waving his arms like Robert Parish on Lambier, instead of just looming over him. We’ll never know.
Deep convictions are funny like that. I’m also “obsessed” about the Bill of Rights.
Please to show me the post in this thread that proposed a vote for Nader and/or against the Bill of Rights. Oh wait, you can’t.
Thanks for the warning against Nader but hey you forgot to warn me not to vote for the insect overlords, nor the Borg, nor the Crypto-fascists. I’m nothing if not a completist so please provide a canonical list of those I shouldn’t vot for.
kthxbye.
er, make that “shouldn’t vote for.”
No, he won. It was stolen from him, with the theft enabled by Nader, and by the goat-blowing whores of the mainstream media.
Sorry, Doc, but there is nothing you can say that will convince me of Nader’s central thesis in 2000: that there would be no difference whatsoever between a Gore presidency and a Bush presidency. I think we can look back with 20/20 hindsight and know with certainty that was a false premise. Hindsight’s a bitch, ain’t it?
But what do I know? I’m only a tool of the running dog capitalist-imperialist lackeys!
Best thing I’ve got on a second’s notice w/r/t Nader and Halliburton is something from (by all people) Jake Tapper, so I’ll keep fishing for something not written by a dumbshit. Suffice it to say, I read enough to be convinced back in ’00. As for Nader/McCain, that’s easy (http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2008/02/29/mccain_nader/):
Now.
Did you read a single thing I said, man? My point was not that Nader helped Gore lose the election (he didn’t) or that Democrats weren’t out of touch with progressives (they were), but that too many of my current allies were too willing to see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil on the real Nader, and were to willing to throw their hat into the media’s sickening ad hoc storylines that are still up and running now. I’m glad you’re back with me here in Reasonville, but I’m worried when you act like you didn’t learn a damn thing this past decade. I mean, congrats and all for opposing the right-wing noise machine when it’s got the backing of President 21%, but what will you do when the wingnuts are playing moderate and are propping up a faux-activist sock puppet?
Also, Gore *was* the better choice in 2000. Surely you must see that. Surely you haven’t enjoyed, well…we’ve been through this before.
I’m not going to repeat my argument again. It’s easy enough to understand.
SeemED. SeemED. SeemED. Keep repeating it.
One of my speculations has been that the Republican win-at-all-costs identity-politics slash-and-burn tactics are now ingrained into our CULTURE. We take them as normal, we assume the way one “plays” the game is a sign of how well they’d do as president, which is like arguing that a person capable of running a marketing department is capable of designing the product as well.
DragonScholar, it’s been immensely convenient for Our Media Village — the “pundits” and the people who pay those pundits — to convince as many Americans as possible that ‘Politics is just another sport’. One of those minor divertissements, like college basketball or horseracing, that occupies a tiny minority all the time but is only serious enough to require attention from normal people during the annual playoffs, or when there’s a spectacular accident/scandal. Framing all political activity as just another distraction from “real life” has let the Media Powers (the billpayers, who are as naturally conservative as any other plutocrats with high-performing investments to protect) pretend that any attempt to discuss the ever-rising inequalities of modern American life is just ‘partisans’ (fans) ‘talking trash’ about the opposing team. And any attempt to tie our elected representatives’ speeches to their votes, much less their personal behavior, is just the kind of petty obsessiveness about an unimportant HOBBY that only laughable losers find exciting. Because if Politics Is Sport, then all the Media Powers need to cover is the player lotteries, the draft, the cheerleading squads, and (most important) the media buys… not all that old-fashioned, high-cost, low-return JOURNALISM stuff that used to be chic back when the baby-boomers were young and fiesty.
Well, at least CNN (the Communist News Network) has hired on Tony Snow, so at least we’ll start to get a *little* truth from those LIE-bruls!!
JoeMax–
Your stupid’s showing. The election was stolen, but that was the Supreme Court– Nader had no role in that. The difference between the parties–yeah, Corporate Party or Clumsy Corporate Party. I’m so happy we have such a wide variety of choices.
DN–
I vote in California. I voted Nader. State went Gore, then Kerry. My vote did not affect that; my registering Democrats might have. And anyway, who cares about “the real Nader”? He had no chance of winning; one might as well have voted Harold Stassen. Point was, the Dems need to earn votes, not just be the slightly-less-destructive party. They’re starting to learn that now, probably because of losing two elections they should have won.
So am I supposed to be outraged by Nader accepting the help he could get, or by the Democrats working to shut lefty third parties from getting ballot access? Personally, I know which one is more of a threat to your beloved American democracy.
And it’s still “seems”. Or did you hit your head and somehow come to the conclusion that the Democrats are a left-wing party, or that their candidates are in any way friendly to the left? The Democrats voted for the Patriot Act. They voted to authorize the Iraq war. They continue to vote to fund the Iraq war. They refuse to investigate or prosecute the administration’s war crimes because they are happily complicit in those crimes. I don’t see where Nader was wrong.
Nader’s stance on the Schiavo case was rooted in the disability rights movement, where there was a significant current which sided with the parents and another which was uncomfortably silent. I disagreed fervently with him at the time, and even more with some DR activists’ decision to explicitly collude with deranged pro-lifers. It’s dishonest to pretend that Nader was showing secret wingnuttitude in that instance.
I think a certain mustelidae has some explaining to do..
Michael Hayden on torture subcontractors..
I can’t decide whether to be disgusted or amused.
Seriously, why the fuck would anyone with >= two active neurons maintain the ridiculous Nader apologia? If you were too fecking stoopid to recognize that Nader 2000’s “Gore == Bush” was, if not at least in hindsight a supremely inane thing to believe, I just can’t take anything you say seriously. To pretend now that der Ralph wasn’t willingly accepting the help and support of the republican machine makes everything you might say as credible as the yelping from the kennel down the street.
Now as for all this talk about “change,” I was hoping that most indigenous S,N!ites would have the intellectual honesty to ask the obvious question, “what the fuck could possibly change in DC?” How the hell would that actually, you know, happen?
“Blah blah change blah” “blah REAL change blah blah”
What does “change?” Kinda like “victory”, lots of people keep talking about it and holding it up as their standard but no one is saying what they mean by it. At least Obama has given us some clues so let’s talk about that. I mean before we all go at each other’s jugulars, TALK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU
You may now commence.
The truth is, John McCain is going to win this Presidential election by a landslide. The Democrats cannot do good in Presidential elections ever since their far-left turn during the George McGovern era. America is a right of centre nation and will not elect a Democrat to the Presidency because they are too far-left and have been since the 1970s. While Democrats may from time to time win in Congressional elections do to the fact that they (unfortunately) have more to do with personality than the actual issues, they will never win the Presidency again because the Democratic party is too far-left for America. And unlike the Congressional elections, Presidential elections have more to do with the actual issues than with personality which is why John McCain will win by a landslide just like Bush did in 2004.
Point was, the Dems need to earn votes, not just be the slightly-less-destructive party. – DocAmazing
Think of this from an evolutionary point of view, though: if the slightly-more destructive party keeps winning elections, then the selection pressure is for ever more destructive party platforms. Look, for better or for worse, a real DFH (or even Nader) is never gonna get elected. And unless voters reward politicians and parties with incrimentally less-destructive ideologies and platforms, the rewarding of politicians and parties with more-destructive ideologies and platforms will lead to the evolution of ever worse ideas.
No matter how much the right is trying to confuse everyone so they can sell their own snake oil, the result of an evolutionary process is not necessarily something that could even be seen as intelligently designed. Those organisms/ideas/parties that are incrimentally more fit are those which survive. And if fitness is dependent on being stupid or bat-guano crazy (as it is in our modern political [fitness] landscape), then it is the stupid and insane that survive and propagate their views in our political discourse.
At some level Dems. need to be rewarded for being incrimentally better if we want them to evolve. All of this Eric Cartman (is he, of all characters, our hero as DFHs?) “screw you guys” at some level is counter-productive toward the goal to which we need to evolve.
I think change, in a progressive sense, would be to stop convening circular firing squads every time us Leftys disagree on something.
So you’ve said it before, PeeJ, Nothing I say is of any value to you because of a choice I made 8 years ago when I was smack dab in the middle of my idealistic phase. Fine. But that seems to work against us working together to accomplish any real change.
I believe that people are allowed to grow wiser, and change their minds. I also believe that people have a right to be wrong sometimes, and that does not make me a better person than they.
What you advocate is the wost from of intellectual elitism. i.e. Someone makes a decision that is proven wrong, so their opinion is therefore null and void forever. What is it like for your shit to smell like roses? ‘Cause mine smells like shit and I’m okay with that..
You sound more like an absolutist, or maybe a fundamentalist. Whatever kind of -ist you are, it’s not helping. This is the same weakness they have exploited over and over again to discredit the progressive agenda.
They march in lockstep while we stand by the side of the road, yelling from our soap boxes about how right we were.
You are right DAS my liberal friend. A leftwinger will never be elected POTUS and the sooner you all realize that the sooner you all might wake up and support policies that will actually help America such as the GOP Platform proposes.
God, this thread is starting to smell like Saul’s ass. The rotting corpse of Nader being dragged out again and kicked around.
I’m going over to Scott’s to read about something that matters to me.
Hey! Who knew? 50.73% is officially a “landslide”.
Of course, if you take Ken Blackwell’s dirty tricks out of the equation…
@t4toby 21:15 —
But isn’t Nader a classic Straw-man? His influence was minuscule next to the Republican voting machine’s consolidated push to disenfranchise voters.
That is the point. For every vote that went to Nader, 3-4 were simply not allowed or tossed out. (emphasis added)
Really? Nader received 2,883,105 votes in 2000. Are you seriously suggesting that nearly 12 MILLION votes were not allowed or tossed out? Really? I bow to no-one in my estimation of the dirty tricks the Rethugs and their enablers are capable of dreaming up and carrying out, but c’mon now — 12 MILLION?
Look, Al Gore won the 2000 election, fair and square (after all, he did get the most votes). The not-so-musical Supremes, using twisted logic that not even the Red Queen could follow, decided that Chimpy won Florida — or, more accurately, ruled that the recount should not continue because it might make people think that Chimpy didn’t win. (Seriously, that is the legal “reasoning” behind the decision — check it out; the full cite is Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000).)
And, yes, Gore ran a lousy campaign, didn’t carry his home state, etc., etc. — ALL TRUE.
BUT (and a mighty “but” it is) — Nader votes in both Florida and New Hampshire were greater than the difference between Bush and Gore. I am pretty sure that nobody here is prepared to argue that Nader voters would have preferred Chimpy if they had to pick between only two candidates, so there is at least a CHANCE that Nader might have been the difference, no?
All statistical analyses that I have read (yes, I am a statistics dweeb) indicate that the likelihood of Gore winning a 2-candidate election against Bush, absent Nader, is rather large. In fact, the last one I read, about 2 months ago, put that likelihood at 99.43% (or about 174 chances out of 175).
To say that Nader had NO effect on this result is akin to saying that your house burned down because nobody called 911, the fire department didn’t arrive in time, there was insufficient water pressure for hoses, and you lived in a house made entirely out of flammable materials WHEN IT WAS NADER WHO SET THE FIRE IN THE FIRST PLACE! Yes, all those other things, much like Gore’s bad campaign, had an effect, but none of them would have mattered if the fire hadn’t been started in the first place, and Nader is the one responsible for that.
On his good days in this century, Ralph Nader is a useful idiot for the Rethugs. On his bad days… well, ask anyone who lives in Iraq if there is no difference AT ALL between Gore and Chimpy.
When I hear that, I hear them saying that they wouldn’t help Obama get elected.
Republicans protect their main candidate and never require him to play dirty himself. Nobody ever pointed to Bush as the author of the swift boat liars, and Bush got to appear like he was above it all, mildly admonishing all 527’s.
Democrats have to pick up this strategy in the general election. No matter who the nominee is, we need every dirty fighter in the party to wade in and start clawing out right-wing-noise-machine eyeballs. If we treat this like another spectator sport, we’ll have another 2000 and 2004, with everyone sitting around tsking that our candidate isn’t effective in single-handedly fighting off the entire Right, we’ll lose and our country will be toast for another decade.
Shalo*ppphhhtttttt*m gentlemen.
I am badger neither blue nor green. You can’t pin that rap on me, copper.
I’m tellin’ ya. It’s the fucking pelicans. It’s always the pelicans. You get in a burrow with one, just once, and tell me different.
>em> PeeJ, Nothing I say is of any value to you because of a choice I made 8 years ago when I was smack dab in the middle of my idealistic phase.
No, no, no. By which I mean no. IF, knowing what you know now, and with the wisdom you’ve acquired since, IF you keep making the SAME mistake (yes, I say ‘mistake’ – the term is not a knife, it’s an assessment) or continue to argue that it wasn’t such a mistake THEN everything else you say now is suspect. It’s really simple: Did you learn from your mistake?
If you’re going to argue that it was not, in fact a mistake, please consider the actual outcome of the last seven+ years (which is even worse than we expected). Your actions have consequences. Hence your actions enabled, at least in part, the total cluster fuck fiasco disaster of Bush II. THAT’s what I call a mistake.
Water under the bridge? Not necessarily, squire. Gravel’s now left the Dems and is running for the Libertarian presidential nomination so you can still become a Gravelhead or whatever his supporters are called.
Mike Gravel is a far-left loon who will never make it in American politics because America is a right of centre nation. Mike Gravel is a man who is to the left of Nancy Pelosi. If any of you think that anti-American gasbag stood a chance to win the primary than your’re even dumber than you appear which is saying alot.
In America we spell it “center”, you ignorant foreigner.
I am a Conservative Canadian who appreciates that America is Western Civilization’s last great hope.
Once again, I don’t care who or WHAT the Democrats nominate, even if they nominate a bloated, rotting opossum corpse lying in the road.
Whoever they nominate will receive my vote in November.
Er, umm, in most of America, it’s spelled that way. Not in all of America.
The far-left Democratic party CANNOT WIN a Presidential election in America. Bill Clinton was the first two term Democratic President since Harry Truman and that was only because he pretended to be a moderate.
If there’s one thing I hate more than a conservative, it’s a Canadian. How aboot you leave the governance of our country to us and go have some poutine, eh? Or better yet, just go outside and let a bus run you over. Yeah, the second one.
Adam, is that you?
Aids Monkey: Doesn’t matter to me. The Democratic candidate will receive my vote in November, no matter who it is. And that’s coming from a gun-owning disabled veteran who grew up in and resides in the Bible Belt.
I’m done with the GOP. They had me for twenty-some years of my voting life, but that relationship’s over. I’ve moved on. And the GOP should do the same.
CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER DENOUCCES TROLLS HATE SPEECH
‘The Democrats cannot do good in Presidential elections ever since their far-left turn during the George McGovern era”
you know nothing of our history
-America
There is no way the far-left will carry a single state in the South or the Great Plains or the Mountian West. The Dem candidate will carry MOST of the Northeast corridor except for New Hampshire, Illinois in the Midwest, and the West coast. THATS IT. The South, most of the Midwest, the entire Great Plains and the entire Mountain West will go Republican.
by “far left” he of couse means “Not to the right of mussolini like republicans”
Dave in NYC –
Here is my reasoning about the disenfranchised voters. My off-the-cuff stat was a bit hyperbolic, I admit.
PeeJ- I would not change my 2000 vote because it was what it was when it was. Don’t forget, I live in Washington State. I could’ve voted for Chimpy and still would not have influenced anything. The past is the past. If I lived in Florida, maybe I’d feel differently.
You and I seem to usually be on the same page, so I can’t understand you saying if I don’t kow-tow to the great wisdom of the Gore voters, my oppinion is useless…
i like the sound of my own voice.
i like it when other people acknowledge my correctitude.
brad, i’ve said it on this site a hundred times before, so thanks for reiterating: people who don’t get what a republican, any republican, will do to this country in a time of–great environmental crises, financial crises, food crises, energy crises, plus 3 supremes coming up for death/retirement and on and on–that person is a tool, a blackguard, a loser, a fuckwit. i don’t like hilary. at all. not a bit. but i won’t just vote for her–i will fundraise, i will cajole and hector, i will canvass door to door–anything to get a non-republican into office. and anyone else smart enough to know the problems we face who WON’T do the above–go fuck yourself. hard.
Aids monkey: The inane predictions of raving lunatics will not cause me to change my vote.
The GOP will not receive my vote. And many people like me — who used to trust the GOP — are coming to the same conclusion. Your party would be better served by trying to actually *win* the votes of people like myself, rather than by trying to *berate* us for not falling in step with it.
My vote. You can’t have it.
There is no way the far-left will carry a single state blah rant rave
Sure. And tonight we’re going to have ice-cream. And the brain fairy will leave a dime under your pillow for the cerebrum you lost.
Hey, I can’t talk about Nader, I wrote in McCain on my ballot.
Of course, I can still point and laugh at Nader voters who still defend that vote.
Aids Money is SO right!! Tony Snow, now of CNN (’cause they don’t have nearly enough Right-wingers for “balance”) says that the Democrats are extreme Leftists (you know you love Harpo Marx, don’t even try to deny it!) and that people who enjoyed “Horsefeathers” couldn’t possibly be elected in the heartland of the USA of America. Our Patriot President, George Willard Bush, jet pilot hero of the Battle of Iraq, will win this election against Hitlery and Osama, as only he can protect us from the vampirical bloodlust of pelicans.
You mean like the stupid of being so convinced I was a stereotypical flyover refugee, libertarian yuppie, carpetbagging my way to divest San Francisco of rent control and environmental protections?
Now, that kind of stupid I understand. It shows itself very prominently by the jerking of the knees, and the engaging of the mouth before putting the brain in gear. You’re a doctor, you should recognize the symptoms.
en-a-ble v. To make possible or easier.
en-a-bler n.
What, you think I’m happy about it? I’m not. But I live in reality-land, where we now have an endless war and a near-endless conservatard majority on the Supreme Court.
Rugged, is Tony Snow still dragging that poop-bag around?
Rugged, is Tony Snow still dragging that poop-bag around?
I’m sure his wife is a very nice lady, hardly worthy of being called a “poop bag”. And yes, as far as I know, he’s still married (one of the few of us on the Right who can make that claim).
I can’t understand you saying if I don’t kow-tow to the great wisdom of the Gore voters, my oppinion is useless…
Perhaps you don’t understand it because that’s not what I said / what I am saying. I am remined of the old saw: the biggest barrier to communication is the assumption that it’s occurring. And I know it doesn’t help to say the same thing in the same way. So I will say it one more time in yet another somewhat different way.
I sed, sed I, that if you (that’s a generic ‘you’ there) continue to argue that voting for Nader wasn’t a mistake, that Nader was somehow “right” or “correct” in his wildly inaccurate assessments of the Bush:Gore dichotomy, that shows you haven’t learned from your mistake. If a body keeps touting their mistake or arguing that it wasn’t a mistake at all, no not really, instead of saying “oops – I made a mistake, what a naif I was!” THEN your current views/opinion are suspect.
Maybe it wasn’t you, maybe it was someone else, maybe you’re just not communicating well either. I got the impression that you were continuing to defend Nader, his position and claims. That WOULD be reason for me to pay you no mind at all from here on out.
You Leftists can never win another election, not while the Right is still breathing:
“I believe demolishing Hussein’s military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk.”
– Kenneth Adelman, member of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, 2/13/02
“Support for Saddam, including within his military organization, will collapse after the first whiff of gunpowder.”
– Richard Perle, Chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, 7/11/02
“Desert Storm II would be in a walk in the park… The case for ‘regime change’ boils down to the huge benefits and modest costs of liberating Iraq.”
– Kenneth Adelman, member of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, 8/29/02
“Having defeated and then occupied Iraq, democratizing the country should not be too tall an order for the world’s sole superpower.”
– William Kristol, Weekly Standard editor, and Lawrence F. Kaplan, New Republic senior editor, 2/24/03
“I would be surprised if we need anything like the 200,000 figure that is sometimes discussed in the press. A much smaller force, principally special operations forces, but backed up by some regular units, should be sufficient.”
– Richard Perle, Chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, 7/11/02
“I don’t believe that anything like a long-term commitment of 150,000 Americans would be necessary.”
– Richard Perle, speaking at a conference on “Post-Saddam Iraq” sponsored by the American Enterprise Institute, 10/3/02
“I would say that what’s been mobilized to this point — something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers are probably, you know, a figure that would be required.”
– Gen. Eric Shinseki, testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, 2/25/03
“The idea that it would take several hundred thousand U.S. forces, I think, is far from the mark.”
– Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, 2/27/03
“I am reasonably certain that they will greet us as liberators, and that will help us keep [troop] requirements down. … We can say with reasonable confidence that the notion of hundreds of thousands of American troops is way off the mark…wildly off the mark.”
– Paul Wolfowitz, U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense, testifying before the House Budget Committee, 2/27/03
“It’s hard to conceive that it would take more forces to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq than it would take to conduct the war itself and to secure the surrender of Saddam’s security forces and his army. Hard to image.”
– Paul Wolfowitz, U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense, testifying before the House Budget Committee, 2/27/03
“If our commanders on the ground say we need more troops, I will send them. But our commanders tell me they have the number of troops they need to do their job. Sending more Americans would undermine our strategy of encouraging Iraqis to take the lead in this fight. And sending more Americans would suggest that we intend to stay forever, when we are, in fact, working for the day when Iraq can defend itself and we can leave.”
– President George W. Bush, 6/28/05
“The debate over troop levels will rage for years; it is…beside the point.”
– Rich Lowry, conservative syndicated columnist, 4/19/06
“Oh, no, we’re not going to have any casualties.”
– President George W. Bush, response attributed to him by the Reverend Pat Robertson, when Robertson warned the president to prepare the nation for “heavy casualties” in the event of an Iraq war, 3/2003
“Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?”
– Barbara Bush, former First Lady (and the current president’s mother), on Good Morning America, 3/18/03
“I think the level of casualties is secondary… [A]ll the great scholars who have studied American character have come to the conclusion that we are a warlike people and that we love war… What we hate is not casualties but losing.”
– Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute, 3/25/03
“Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will.”
– Richard Perle, Chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, 7/11/02
“The likely economic effects [of the war in Iraq] would be relatively small… Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits.”
– Lawrence Lindsey, White House Economic Advisor, 9/16/02
“It is unimaginable that the United States would have to contribute hundreds of billions of dollars and highly unlikely that we would have to contribute even tens of billions of dollars.”
– Kenneth M. Pollack, former Director for Persian Gulf Affairs, U.S. National Security Council, 9/02
“The costs of any intervention would be very small.”
– Glenn Hubbard, White House Economic Advisor, 10/4/02
“When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community.”
– Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, 3/27/03
“There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn’t have to be U.S. taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.”
– Paul Wolfowitz, U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense, testifying before the Defense Subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, 3/27/03
“The United States is committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid.”
– Mitchell Daniels, Director, White House Office of Management and Budget, 4/21/03
“Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for ther own reconstruction.”
– Ari Fleischer, White House Press Secretary, 2/18/03
“Now, it isn’t gong to be over in 24 hours, but it isn’t going to be months either.”
– Richard Perle, Chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board, 7/11/02
“The idea that it’s going to be a long, long, long battle of some kind I think is belied by the fact of what happened in 1990. Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn’t going to last any longer than that.”
– Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, 11/15/02
“I will bet you the best dinner in the gaslight district of San Diego that military action will not last more than a week. Are you willing to take that wager?”
– Bill O’Reilly, 1/29/03
“It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could be six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.”
– Donald H. Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense, 2/7/03
“It won’t take weeks… Our military machine will crush Iraq in a matter of days and there’s no question that it will.”
– Bill O’Reilly, 2/10/03
“There is zero question that this military campaign…will be reasonably short. … Like World War II for about five days.”
– General Barry R. McCaffrey, national security and terrorism analyst for NBC News, 2/18/03
“The Iraq fight itself is probably going to go very, very fast. The shooting should be over within just a very few days from when it starts.”
– David Frum, former Bush White House speechwriter, 2/24/03
“I think it will go relatively quickly…weeks rather than months.”
– Vice President Dick Cheney, 3/16/03
Right. I guess his impeachment bleating over the Clenis back in the late 90s, too?
Stop carrying this tool’s water. He no longer deserves it.
mikey said,
April 21, 2008 at 21:17
Oh christ, it’s Deja Thread.
Seems to me I’ve heard this song before.
I’m pretty sure I know everybody’s position on “will hillary”, “won’t hillary”, “won’t obama”, “will mccain”, “won’t mccain” and “I’ll sit this one out”.
We seem delighted to keep shouting our positions at each other.
It’s all beginning to seem like a vaudeville routine.
Once more. The primary season ended in March. The media doesn’t want to say so because the ‘horserace’ moves product.
Hillary doesn’t want to quit ’cause she’s got nothing to lose but her supporter’s money, and who knows? A miracle COULD happen.
Except, no. Barack Obama is the nominee.
We should just quit encouraging them…
mikey
This thread came to a proper and just conclusion at 21:17.
Thank you, mikey.
WAS too. Eh, you know what I mean.
Hey, let’s check out the Nader blog: http://www.votenader.org/index.html
– Democrats bad
– FOX news poll good
– Krugman eeeeeeeeevil
– “Corporate liberal media.” BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Fucking moron isn’t even trying these days.
This is me being surprised.
This is all whistling in the dark. Leftists won’t say it out loud, but they must be thinking – Good Lord, if we can’t beat the Republicans under these circumstances, when will we?
Hillary Clinton probably can’t win the nomination, and if she does, all her mendacity and nasty ambition will galvanize voters against her.
Barack Obama belongs to an openly anti-American church and is married to an openly anti-American wife.
I look forward to reading the astonished and enraged posts by leftists everywhere when McCain is elected President.
Ugh. Nadroids and wingnut clowns.
Being right means having to put up with a lot. I don’t wish it on anyone (though certainly hope it for everyone).
Being
rightself-righteous means having to put up with a lot.Fixed.
Barack Obama is anti-American slime and Hillary Clinton is a self-serving opportunist with socialist ambitions. Neither one of whom will be good for America or Western Civilization. Take heed from this Canadian. Socialism does not work. My country is in ruins and is only begining to be fixed thanks to the Conservative leadership of our great Prime Minister Stephen Harper. But unfortunately, there are not enough Conservatives in the Canadian Parliament to make some much needed socially Conservative and free market reforms even though Stephen Harper wishes to do so. Do not let your country become like mine, Western Civilization depends upon America.
Bonzo, darling — pass the lube.
Again, convictions run deep. Evil is worth fighting.
Oh, Jesus, Bonzo — every single fucking time you come back from Stephen Harper’s house you have crabs! Pass the Kwell.
Oh, no, Bonzo — not the clap, too?!?!?
Thank God for socialized medicine.
This is all whistling in the dark. The anti-liberty fascists won’t say it out loud, but they must be thinking – Good Lord, if we can’t beat Ron Paul under these circumstances, when will we?
I look forward to reading the astonished and enraged posts by dirty socialist statists everywhere when Ron Paul is elected President.
The fact is, I am a heterosexual Canadian who enjoys heterosexual American movies like Heartbreak Ridge and Top Gun.
Western Civilization: Depends for America.
Western Civilization deep-ends on America.
What do you think of western civilization Mr. Ghandi? : “I think that would be a good idea!”
and so on and so forth
Hmm…. Stephen Harper reference + socialized medicine + closeted monkey fucker + chimp named after Ronald Reagan’s best friend = __________________________
I’m going with Mark Steyn.
Is that a joke or do you really think that Top Gun is a heterosexual movie? Watch that locker room scene again, dude.
locker room scene?
Everyone knows that movie is about Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer trying to fuck each other.
The fact is, the jets are cool but the gayometer is pinned.
D.N. Nation,
I’ll ask the same question that gets asked of many wingnut trolls here, because although I do not think of you as a troll you are frequently (dare I say constantly) guilty of the same “sins” as they.
What is your purpose for commenting here about Nader? Is it to persuade others to your point of view? Is it to blow off steam at whatever convenient target presents itself? If the former, understand that you are encouraging no one who did not already share your views to reconsider.
In point of fact, you’ve already significantly hurt your standing with people who do. Like me. I saw through Nader’s BS back then, but you don’t see me haranguing those who voted for him, easy as that would be. Why? Because being right isn’t the point. Convincing people to stand with the coalition is.
I was having a conversation just the other day about the inanity of modern leftist protestors. They’re blowing off steam, taking the excuse to act like assholes. What they are not is effective. And political protest without an eye toward the goal of the protest is pointless.
Much like your ranting here against past Nader voters. Do you understand?
Memo to Clinton and Obama supporters: your candidates’ differences are vastly smaller than their similarities.
I’m too lazy to read comments (115 at the mo’) but I’m betting there’s a whole lot of obamaniacs who are pissed off because you said he has a small dick.
What the……..I’m a star on the Great Orange Satan?
Your candidate sucks.
differences are vastly smaller than their similarities. Righto Frank. Both are too conservative for me but they’re what we’re stuck with. Nader types should run for office at the local level and build from that point.
Memo to Clinton and Obama supporters: your candidates’ differences are vastly smaller than their similarities.
I’m too lazy to read comments (115 at the mo’) but I’m betting there’s a whole lot of obamaniacs who are pissed off because you said he has a small dick.
The fuck you say.
The fact is, the reason Obama doesn’t wear a flag pin is because he’s got the American flag tattooed on his big black cock.
What could possibly be more patriotic than that? Imagine the self-sacrifice involved with having the American flag tattooed onto your cock. No man who does not truly love America would subject himself to such an ordeal.
Jennifer said No man who does not truly love America would subject himself to such an ordeal.
Absolutely right on. Let’s ask the right wing whackos to do a little self-sacrificing and find out how far they’re willing to go in the name of patriotism.
Snowwy- All I ask is
1) “I’m sorry.”
2) “I promise I won’t be enticed again.”
Two things. Not hard. Haven’t gotten either.
All we are saying, is give peace a chance.
Yes, Ralph Nader not only deliberately threw the ’00 election to Bush (nothing to do w/ the Supreme Court! Look over here! There’s a bright shiny object).
He’s single-handedly responsible for the Demo. “opposition” approving Bush’s War de Jour (Iran coming soon!), The Patriot Act, Bankruptcy Bill, refusal to fully investigate the DoJ scandals, 4th Amendment banned wiretapping, Katrina non-response, etc. How? Why? Well, the Demos were so upset that anyone would dare oppose them from the “Left” when they have all the respect & love for the Left that SHIllary does that they charged further right just to spite those nasty DFH’s (dirty fuckin’ hippies) who believe in outmoded ideas like Habeus Corpus, the Nuremberg Principles, busting up monopolies, etc.
Gore showed his true Progressivism by choosing a Veep like Holy Likud Joe LIEberman, who promised to hunt down Marilyn Manson for causing the Columbine massacre and never met a war he didn’t like (oops! unless, like Vietnam, he was young enough to serve in it, & it wasn’t directed at those evil hook-nosed Ay-rab Semites). While Nader’s an irrelevant distraction now, (& truth to tell, was in 2000 as well, we just gotta get in our symbolic 10 minutes of Hate against Goldm– Nader. And since we voted LIEberman to be VP, we’re always & indelibly morally superior to you grungy DFH’s!
Why is it that you leftists hate President Bush? Is it because you hate Western Civilization which he is standing up for?
Is it because you want to live under sharia law?
Or is it because you just don’t have a fucking clue as to who the enemy is?
I’ve had this same conversation with many of my ignorant countrymen and they have yet to give me a satisfactory answer as to their hatred.
If it wasn’t for the likes of President Bush and a few other brave Western leaders than our Civilization would be finished.
My country already foolishly lets in mohammedian immigrants while they persecute patriots like Mark Steyn who dare tell the truth about Islam and the state of our Western Culture.
The Canadian Commision on “Human Rights” are a bunch of traitors, especially that Quiesling Warman. I hope my country brings back capital punishment if only to hang those fifth columnists.
I’d be more convinced to vote for him if he had followed Oliver Reed’s example.
Oh, yeh, & despite anything I said above, T. Frank rocks! Even before “WWRong w/ Kansas”, there was his kick-ass periodical the Baffler.
Nonetheless, Hillary voted for BushCo war, & though I’m not entranced by Obama I don’t know if they make a big enough clothespin for me to shut off my nose while voting for Clinton Inc. Esp. since she has nothing but contempt for those Commies at MoveOn who dare to question the wisdom of our endless, righteous war against EastAsia
For FSM’s sake.
It’s a bad day when a Sadly, No! thread depresses me as much as a Monday at teh Borg.
Hey “aids monkey”, hoep you’s over in Iraqistan killin’ some o dem brown pipple for our syvilisation! I hear da littel wuns is easyest to off! Sum frends o mine in the Murines n plaec kalled Hadeetha said when they blue off the 2 or 3 yeer olds headses they hardlee even fought back. Gud lukk my frend!
Our war against “east asia” as you call it is righteous you self-hating prick. These savages murdered 3000 of your fellow counrymen and my fellow westerners on 9/11 and you dare to question the righteousness of this war! You and your leftist ilk should all move to Saudi Arabia since your’re just dying to live under sharia law as is evidenced by your opposition to your own country’s efforts.
Folks, I know it sucks serious balls, but Poopdeck Pappy’s gonna be President Poopdeck Pappy come January ’09. If there is one thing that the leadership of the Democratic Party likes to do, it’s lose. DLC/DNC/AC-DC/fuck-all will bitch about thanksralph, 527s, supremes, and whatthefuckever, but when push comes to shove, will hit the canvas with a speed that will make the late Sonny Liston smile down upon them….,
I’m thinkin the same thing as Thunder.
This is just ugly. It’s like left blogostan has colon cancer.
I’ll be really glad when Pennsylvania’s over.
And I’ll be REALLY glad when Hillary withdraws. And that sounds like more fun than I suspect it will be.
And I’ll be HELLA glad to see John “crazier than a staked dog” McCain debate Barack Obama.
No. I’m SALIVATING for that.
Hoo lordy. That’s gonna be good on about twelve levels…
mikey
Please don’t waste time responding to ‘monkey’, it is merely our relentless parody troll. Thrives on attention, doesn’t really care about anybody else.
It might as well be a rethuglican.
What I had in mind was divesting them of their silly fantasies before it’s too late. Already this country has been fucked over so badly that it’ll never recover until after I’m dead (but I have a kid to think about.) And I see so many of the “I’ll never vote for Hitlery/OmabaX no matter what, because I have principles!” knocking around here and elsewhere, selling the same rancid “there’s no difference” between ObamaX/Hitlery and Grandpa McCain, when they know damn good and well it’s bullshit. It’s the same mode of absolutist thinking that’s gotten us into this mess.
A lot of them are Naderites who refuse to repudiate their previous 2000 vote and admit that they made a bad choice, probably out of plain old human vanity – nobody likes to admit they were wrong. However, this reluctance to face reality is driving them to simply repeat their mistake yet again when the stakes are so terribly high. Now they can’t even pretend the stakes aren’t terribly high.
I’m not going to rake anyone over the coals who says, “I voted for Nader in 2000 but boy, under the circumstances that was a big mistake.” (Specifically if they lived in a swing state.) Perhaps they can be forgiven for not realizing how dire the consequences of their choice would be. I say to them, “I’m glad you woke up. Let’s not do that again, shall we?”
But still preaching the same idiocy of “there’s no difference at all between the Dems and the Rethugs” after going through the last eight years? That’s not idealistic, that’s not just delusional, it’s suicidal. They won’t listen to reason, or accept evidence that’s as obvious as getting hit with a shit-encrusted cinder block in the face: we have to put the Democratic candidate into the White House with not just a win, but a popular landslide. Perhaps these people can be embarrassed into not embarrassing themselves next time around. I’m willing to try anything at this point.
Having a true DFH president is going to have to wait a generation or two now. It sucks, but think of the children.
Your’re the one whose a fucking parody thunder. A parody of a westerner because you are a fucking joke. You live in the greatest civilization in the history of the world and yet you’re rooting for the islamo-fascists to win!
Are you that fucking eager to live under sharia law asshole?!
You fucking coward. Hiding behind your self righteous liberal philosophy. You think that if you just try to be understanding then the terrorists won’t kill you. Sorry but thats not the way the real world works asswipe.
You are a pathetic exuse for a human being.
The Canadian Commision on “Human Rights” are a bunch of traitors, especially that Quiesling Warman. I hope my country brings back capital punishment if only to hang those fifth columnists.
Do it yourself.
Coward.
For FSM’s sake.
It’s a bad day when a Sadly, No! thread depresses me as much as a Monday at teh Borg.
Don’t blame me. I gave it my best shot, and not even a big black cock tattooed with the American flag could change the subject.
H.A.A.M.
You’re a new one here, aren’t you? Gotta tell you, you may be stupid, ignorant, and bigoted, but you got fire in the belly, and that counts for…well, shit. You’re just stupid, ignorant, and bigoted. Are you having Adam Yoshida’s child?
Fecking moron.
Top Gun: What it was all about, heh heh:
Our war against “east asia” as you call it is righteous you self-hating prick. These savages murdered 3000 of your fellow counrymen and my fellow westerners on 9/11 and you dare to question the righteousness of this war!
Amen, brother! These Lefties probably were involved in packing the Trade Towers (including Building 7) with thermite explosives, so that they could enjoy Sharia Law.
On the other hand, you’ve gotta hand it to those Muslim dudes, Allah might just be bigger than our G-d! After all, he took idiots who couldn’t even fly Cessna’s and made them into Top Gun style pilots (sure wish OUR G-d could do that!) and even made them all invisible to airport security cameras!! I’m not complainin’ or nuthin’ but…..why in the hell didn’t a 12 foot high Jesus made of radiation just appear in mid-air in front of the Trade Center and stop the planes by holding up his hand? Unless he actually *wanted* us to be punished…
Anyway, it’d be cool if Jesus and Allah would have a big, winner take all wrasslin’ match, eh? Of course, if Jesus lost, we’d hafta wear turbans and all of that Arab-y stuff, not sure how that’d go down in Montana.
That wasn’t me who posted that about those movies. Someone stole my name.
My favorite movies are actually The Patriot, Braveheart and Glory.
How did this get into the wsj?
Hanx, Jennifer.
I’ll post a bad music video.
(Turn yur speakers up LOUD!)
I’ve had this feeling for a while now.
In 2000, I told myself there was no way in Hell Bush could possibly beat Al Gore. Bush was clearly a bullshit artist who, without the help of his family, would have been a failed businessman in some shitty bar in Houston. Bush beat Gore.
In 2004, I absolutely knew that Kerry would win. “The American people,” I told myself, “were fed up with the wars, the economy, and have finally seen Bush’s ineptness for what it is.” I was wrong.
It’s 2008 now. The last time we weren’t at war and had a healthy economy was when I was in High School. We’ve had the better part of a decade of constant, concurrent wars and economic growth that barely (if at all) kept up with inflation. I’m telling myself and everyone else that no matter who the Democratic nomination is, they couldn’t possibly lose to a dinosaur like McCain. I could still be wrong.
D.N. Nation, dude, I totally agree with you about Mr. Nader and his (fellow) Repub enablers. Here’s the problem, though: Seems that whenever you are kind enough to remind us of how much Nader sucks elephant balls, you attract another hatch of Reichtard lunatics to stink up the thread. I don’t know whether repeating the name ‘Nader’ three times in front of the metaphorical mirror which is S,N! actually calls up Teh Ancient Stupid, or if it’s just the intramural rancour that attracts them, but whatever. Sometimes being Absolutely Correct just isn’t enough reason to subject those of us who *didn’t* vote for *either* Repub in 2000 to more lackwit trolls, okay?
Adam Yosida is a patriot and a very knowledgable man. I am a big fan of his. If only more Canadians were as patriotic is he is.
You live in the greatest civilization in the history of the world and yet you’re rooting for the islamo-fascists to win!
Are you that fucking eager to live under sharia law asshole?!
This shit is just too stupid for words. I need to update my pie script.
Asshole. Who, left or right, is more into religious law?
Is it lefties or righties that want the courts to let them put religious iconography in the public square in america? Is it left or right that want to control women’s reproduction? Liberal or Conservative who want to censor sex and blasphemy on the TV and Radio?
Y’know, you show up here saying things that are clearly and demonstrably stupid, you’re just gonna look stupid.
But if there’s any one group that is perfectly aligned with “Shari’a Law”, as if you even understood what that term actually means, it’s christian conservatives. So you can call me a lot of things, ’cause I’m a liberal and a bit of a hippie, but if you want to wave this whole religious conservative/Shari’a Law thing around, and point it at the left which is mostly secular and opposed to religious edict, you’re just going to look as stupid as, well, as you actually are..
mikey
Wanna hate Canadians?
Go for it.
If it can get you off that “turning Iraq into a medieval abbatoir while planning Armageddon” kick, I’m game. Celine Dion alone is just cause.
But don’t think monkeyfag represents us – any more than Gary Ruppert represents you guys to me. Western Civilization doesn’t depend on America, it’s trying to survive it – outcome in doubt. Dude’s actually clueless enough to call a total gayfest like “Top Gun” a HETERO movie?! Hahahahahahaha! PROTIP: Wipe the Cheetos-dust off your chin & get Mommy to clean your room, twat.
I doubt he could get jiggy with Stephen Harper anyways: that fucker’s so scarce he makes Howard Hughes look like Lindsay Lohan. We know where Waldo is – he’s running Canada. Soon to be a fully owned subsidiary of Exxon.
Oh, & the 2000 election was well & duly STOLEN via the Florida Wilding tactic Rove brewed up, as well as the SC fix … & please recall (heh) how said theft was formalized by the Senate (including Gore!) when they callously blew off the furious Black Caucus in its attempt to have the whole sick circus subjected to a real investigation. Anyone else remember how fast Gore caved once the media began crying “sore loser”? You CAN win a legit US election with fewer votes – such is the magic of Electoral Colleges, where 50%+1 gets you ALL the seats in that state – but Gore did win outright in Florida, pure & simple … then threw it away when the real heat was on – & was immediately praised for his gentlemanly statesmanship. Which is why the “Draft Gore” meme makes my gorge rise. HE was more of a Bush-enabler than Nader.
The only way McCaveman wins is if he gets the Diebold Vote.
But that hack only becomes a viable strategy in a horse-race.
I seriously doubt he can bring it close enough to pull that shit again.
Believe it or not, a lot of us in that mystical place known as The Rest Of The World ain’t too orgasmic over the latest “Circular Firing Squad Tango” either. That is one UGLY dance. Especially when the GOP is playing Naval Chicken with aircraft carriers & talking about nuking a country that just finished allying itself with both Russia & China. Try the Watusi or the Mashed Potato.
Judeo-Christianity which Western Civilization was founded upon and Islam are two completely different religions.
Muslims are worshippers of a false god who commands his followers to murder anyone who refuses to convert.
Christians and Jews don’t believe in converting anyone by force. We know that conversion has to be a sincere act or else it is invalid. How sincere a conversion would it be if someone told you to accept Christ with a gun pointed to your head? Not very sincere.
Two entirely different religious traditions my friend.
Disregard that,
I suck cocks…
Hey Jim, doofus.
I’ve got news for you. Bush won Florida in 2000 fair and square. They recounted several times. And after every single recount, Bush was the winner. Get over it!
You’re just mad that saint algore isn’t the leader of Western Civilization. He isn’t and never will be DEAL WITH IT!
This is a stupid conversation.
I’m gonna watch the giants…
mikey
Footenote To Thee Yankes:
Canada reduced the Conservatives from 169 seats to 2 in 1993.
Feel free to copy us.
Christians and Jews don’t believe in converting anyone by force.
Of course not. Never has blood been spilled in the name of the One True Church.
Anyway, tell it to Arnaud Amalric.
I’m gonna watch the giants…
bastard. i have no cable.
All the Nader hating reminds me that at this moment in alternate reality land where Gore won two terms (and obviously that would mean the country would be a shining city on the hill with world peace and rainbows and all that) we’d need the commisars beating everyone into the voting booth for Joe Lieberman.
Bush stole Florida fair & square!
They stopped the last & most thorough recount when it was becoming obvious the others had been bogus – flunk history much?
Saint algore?
Uh, maybe lay off huffing those paint-chips, huh?
Brain-dead troll is brain-dead.
Ed Marshall said,
April 22, 2008 at 4:33
All the Nader hating reminds me that at this moment in alternate reality land where Gore won two terms (and obviously that would mean the country would be a shining city on the hill with world peace and rainbows and all that) we’d need the commisars beating everyone into the voting booth for Joe Lieberman.
It hurts me to say this to a guy named Ed, but just shut the fuck up.
Judeo-Christianity which Western Civilization was founded upon and Islam are two completely different religions.
How strange, then, that you act exactly the same.
Dude, yer pullin’ my tinkler…….I went to the Great Orange Satan and there weren’t nuthin’ ’bout ole Rugged (boo hoo).
Why shut the fuck up? Because it hurts a cherished fantasy? I voted Nader 2000 over mideast policy specifically. Camp David and Clinton/Gore Iraq policy. Their foreign policy trajectory towards Iraq may actually have slowed some with Bush winning. Colin Powell was moving towards at least a more sane sanctions regime regarding Iraq. The West Bank and Gaza were moved from “disputed regions” to “occupied territorities” when Bush came in. Gore would have brought Pollack and O’Hanlon and even crazy ass Mylroie and 9/11 would have given you the same result with Gore playing Johnson in 2004.
Gore would have brought Pollack and O’Hanlon and even crazy ass Mylroie and 9/11 would have given you the same result with Gore playing Johnson in 2004.
Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, d00d. You’ve covered your ass, now.
Sadlynauts, why not just say that Nader is a dick, and be done with it? He didn’t cause Gore to lose. That honor goes to whatsername in Florida, the corrupt politician who struck all those blacks from the voter rolls. All she got for it was a stench that follows her everywhere.
Nader didn’t make Gore lose. And Nader will never win a political office as long as he lives. Nobody is into that guy anymore. He has no effect on anything, at this point, except that the very mention of his name can still piss everyone off. Get over Nader. He’s a done deal. Kaput. Finit. Arguing about Nader is now exactly as useful as arguing whether Spiderman can beat Batman, or the other way around.
and one step farther, the reason I’m not OK with Hillary Clinton winning is that she is going to bring in the same goddamn people and she’s going to do the same damn things Clinton did. What she has decided to make as policy positions for the Democratic primary means absolutely nothing. I’ve seen this show before. Barrack would bring in a different set of filth but I can see him giving a damn if you put a million people in the street and I can’t imagine Hillary caring at all.
Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, d00d. You’ve covered your ass, now.
No, whatever makes you feel good about yourself. Obviously no one really has a crystal ball but are you willing to try and make a case that Gore was set to purge out the Clinton mideast team which was ideologically identical to the worst elements of Bush Jr.’s?
Arguing about Nader is now exactly as useful as arguing whether Spiderman can beat Batman, or the other way around.
Spiderman makes you gay, but Batman makes you gayer?
and one step farther, the reason I’m not OK with Hillary Clinton winning is that she is going to bring in the same goddamn people and she’s going to do the same damn things Clinton did.
Yeah, it’d just kill me to have to live through those years again, the booming economy gave me this terrible sense of possibility, as though I could do almost anything, if I tried.
That’d be SUCH a bummer!
Nader is deader than a fucking roadkill pigeon. And so is Gore, deader than a dog who got smashed by a truck. They are dead.
There is nothing, now, except for whether Obama, or Clinton, can defeat McCain, and whether the US can somehow not start a war with Iran.
There is absolutely nothing except for a fucking neocon vampire attacking, and us holding a wooden stake.
Well, since no one here agrees on much of anything, how about Ann Althouse for President?
LA Confidential Pantload said,
April 22, 2008 at 5:00
Well, since no one here agrees on much of anything, how about Ann Althouse for President?
Wineboxes in every kitchen!
/Althouse campaign manager
Awww, I guess I got all pissed off too.
Maybe I should not comment when I am tired and cranky.
Yeah, Althouse for president!
Actually….. no.
Thunder – I was sort of thinking (well, actually not much thinking, with half a fifth of whiskey onboard) of the Althouse-Pammycakes ticket: Drunken Wingnut Wimmens Roolz!. Think of the free PR a campaign could get on every sad-assed porno site on the internet tubes.
WTF is with these trackbacks?
how about Ann Althouse for President?
And the Ann Althouse Committee to choose Ann Althouse’s running mate (chaired by Ann Althouse) has chosen…rattatattarattatattarattatatta…Ann Althouse!!
Think of David Brooks, David Broder, George Will, etc. sucking up to rethuglican ticket, as per their boss’s orders.
Althouse-Pammycakes brings gravity-ass to the ticket!
Thunder,
So it’s a go?
The fact is, Thomas Frank thinks that class warfare will win. He himself knows this is incorrect, he can whine about Kansas all he wants but America is a Christian, Conservative nation that believes in hard work, the free market, and free speech. The liberals want to silence all who disagree, and they start in the media and in the schools. Promotiving diveisive envy will not play well in Peoria, my friends.
Bush/Cheney 08, 12, 16, etc.
LA Confidential Pantload said,
April 22, 2008 at 5:15
Thunder,
So it’s a go?
Let the fun-raisins begin!
Gary,
Go fuck yourself with a shovel. Right now. And please repeat at regular intervals each day.
We’ll expect weekly progress reports. Now get the fuck out of here. Thanks.
“beer bongs spiked with cough syrup”
I would definitely like some of that.
nobody–you can point & laugh, but in Kansas in 96, Nader wasn’t allowed on the ballot. And he needed a percentage of votes nationwide to get federal funding (that added up to anything meaningful). Clinton was going to win, Kansas was going to go to my dear Baccalaureate speaker Bobdole. My vote mattered in the sense that it added to Nader’s funding, but otherwise? Not much. My local vote mattered, and I used it well. And Kansas was hardly the only state in that position.
OK, since then and the era of hanging chads and Court Jester induced Presidency, things have changed. BTW, was anyone else at the rally at Union Square in SF when Bush was given the big prize and “Bush Street” was changed to “Puppet St.”? One of my fondest memories, though before I had a decent camera.
Look, I’m here to tell you guys what I told the Shiites in Al Qaeda: knock off all the bullshit.
Toby–poor Gravel, I should have made him a blimp too. It just seemed funnier at the time to make one for Chuckles over at Little Green Footballs, considering his obsession with RONPAUL(!!!!) at the time.
Right–try tons of anti-seizure meds….HAHA! I’m typing this now just trying to hang on and make my fingers work…..dammit, I used to be a really fast and smokin bass player. Lyrica is supposedly addictive and causes “euphoria” though. Who knows, I’m being thrown head first into pharmaceutical madness, and I can take questions…LOL.
I don’t know, I don’t support Nader other than my above comment (well, I’m strangely drawn to his hair…). I do agree that he is definitely the typical straw-man in application. How many on the left decry Perot other than for his existence? I’ve posted my voting record so it doesn’t bother me, but Bill Clinton was my first vote. I had just turned 18. I almost managed to bowl Phred Phelps into his wife at a rally, too. Damn, I’ve had a fucked up life. I wish Burroughs hadn’t died. Toby, remember his local antics, or before you left? ROFLMAO!!! Shot-gun art definitely needs a come-back, Bill or no Bill.
You might say to yourself:
Hmm, I’d like to eat mikey’s pork and pasta dinner.
And you’d be right. It IS hella good. Garlic and herb shells served beside a crispy grilled center cut boneless chop.
But know what? Tonight, the sauteed green beens stole the whole deal.
They may very well be the best thing I’ve ever eaten.
Al dente steamed green beans sauteed with bacon, olive oil, garlic, onion, mushrooms butter and herbs.
Hoo, goddammit. That’s good stuff.
Now, carry on…
mikey
As night fell, the warring tribes retreated to their camps to count their dead and await tomorrow’s battles…
Whereupon, the most delicious scents emanated from their cookpots…
mikey
Ready! Fire! Aim!
“Just one problem: HRC’s been taking her cues from Rovian talking points, so I’m not sure how that’s gonna work against McCain.”
It worked in 2000 in the Republican primary…
not that I’m a Clinton supporter or anything, but just sayin
Mikey, I love you like a brother — which I guess means one of us should be beating the shit out of the other — but please, shut up. It’s Passover, which means I can’t eat pork. Hell, I can’t even eat the pasta. But the green beans sound good. Tell me about the green beans again… What??? BACON???
Dammit!
‘Sokay, m’man.
I’ve got righteous kosher tollhouse cookies in the oven.
Yum…
mikey
Personally, I’m more than a little tired of being told that The Greater Good requires that I hug people who keep kneeing me in the nuts.
But that’s just me.
“Don’t blame me. I gave it my best shot, and not even a big black cock tattooed with the American flag could change the subject.”
Jennifer, the tattooed cock (tale) kicked ass. Don’t feel bad.
LAC Pantload; I have the same fear. “Gramps” could pull it off.
Forgive me, folks, too much duty and not enough leisure to engage in rapid-fire comment exchanges…
Joe Max: You, I understand. And I tend to agree.
D.N. Nation: Dude, I get you, but nobody owes you an apology for past mistakes, and most especially not for past votes. Don’t make elections about you, because they’re not. They’re about all of us together. And other than a singular pair of people who I won’t name because I don’t want to spark up a fight I don’t have time for, I can recall no one here who has not said they’re totally unwilling to do the wise thing and support whichever Dem gets the nod.
Atheist has it right, IMHO. Nader is dead. Stop killing him and let us get to engaging today’s enemy, John McCain. And let’s work to convince those who say they’re considering Nader that their best choice lies elsewhere.
Sorry folks, I’m just not a funny guy. ‘s why I don’t comment much, though I read SN with the fanatical devotion of a Jesuit monk. Haven’t missed a word in more than a year.
Obama! And I can’t even vote in your election.
The neocons might want to rethink that whole Canada-US one country-one-dollar idea. I mean, with the exception of Mark Steyn and a handful of other nutjobs, there’s probably 25 million people here who’d never vote Republican (well…not the kind you’ve got now).
I haven’t been following the news about the character assassination, but Hillary and Obama might want to think twice if they’re engaging in this childish bullshit. Past the election when one of them is in power they don’t want to be spending billions of hours having to mend those fences, not with all the work there is to do repairing the damage of the Bush administration.
Hey, here’s a thought. Maybe they can share the presidency. There’s more than enough work to do! Two heads and all that. Of course they’d have to get along.
For the good of the country. You know, like they be telling US. Or you.
As for supporting Hillary, well as Doris Lessing said, sometimes you have to support movements, parties, and players you don’t like because circumstances (in this case, the alternative) require you to.
“the most delicious scents emanated from their cookpots…”
I’ve got a large fresh pig’s leg (the portion just below the ham, but above the hock) and two hunks of pork belly (with decent amounts of lean included) sitting in some brine for an experiment tomorrow.
I’m gonna cook them up on the Weber, with the cover on and the fire low. I want to get the leg skin crispy somehow, too.
Don’t know what I’ll serve ’em with, and we’ll be eating earlier instead of later in the day, since we see the couples’ shrink at 5. Then again, maybe we’ll eat after getting everything off of our chests.
I’ll report back either way.
Past the election when one of them is in power they don’t want to be spending billions of hours having to mend those fences, not with all the work there is to do repairing the damage of the Bush administration.
Ah-fuckin’-men to that. I’ve actually been fretting about this lately. Whomever gets elected, be it Obama or Clinton, is going to be terribly hampered by the animosity this divisive primary is causing. I admit that I used to respect Hillary and now I think she couldn’t pass a polygraph test about what she ate for breakfast, but I intend to vote for her if she’s the nominee. Anyone who won’t is nuckin futs.
I wanted to vote for Nader in 2000. Back then I still had respect for him, for his past as a consumer advocate, and from what I knew about him his positions were a lot closer to mine than Gore’s. (And Good Dog, Holy Joe for a running mate? Hard to swallow.) But in the end I voted for Gore – I was in a swing state, Iowa, and the state did indeed go for Gore, as it had for Clinton in the previous two elections. I’m glad I voted for Gore. I knew Bush would be terrible, although I didn’t know just how terrible, and I didn’t want him to win. It was obvious Nader wouldn’t win. I was pissed off at the Nader voters for a while. I used to ask my Nader voting friend in Seattle who didn’t like Gore because he “wasn’t pro-choice enough” how she likes her pro-choice preznit now?! But I’m over that. As atheist said, Nader’s dead. At the risk of sounding like Ann Landers, the past is over and done. We can only go forward. Let’s do it as one, and let’s do it with a vengeance. Please. We can’t let McCain win.
/ends drama, staggers off to watch Indochine in bed
D.N. Nation:
– Democrats bad
No argument here.
– FOX news poll good
People cite polls which are in their favor. Nothing new about that.
– Krugman eeeeeeeeevil
Well, he is. He’s a liberal dancing monkey for the status quo.
– “Corporate liberal media.”
You are aware that “liberal” is used as a term of criticism by the Left, right?
Are you going to claim that Michael J. Smith et al. are Republican operatives, too?
Fred Phelps calls himself a Democrat so would you vote for him over McCain? Or would you choose NOT to play along?
A Clinton presidency would have all the same bullshit as a Republican administration but labeled as a “Democratic Administration”. Why do we democrats keep doing that to ourselves?
The cry “Anybody called a Democrat/Republican gets my vote” is one of the reason this country is spiraling down. Demand a little more and be tough enough to deal with the consequences of standing to your principles.
Oh, and after reading a bit more, shouldn’t it be fucking obvious to you that “corporate liberal media” is intended to describe liberals in the media like Paul Krugman, because it’s no surprise that the WSJ or whatever doesn’t cover Nader?
Demand a little more and be tough enough to deal with the consequences of standing to your principles.
Thing is, I seriously doubt this country can take a pure-strain Republican anymore.
Can’t do it anymore.
We can’t let McCain hold the office, not at all. He will kill this country before we find even one politician who could stand by the principles we’re to stand by.
Hillary’s awful, no doubt. But she will not plunge us directly into the fire, not before she figures out how to save her own ass.
I’m not asking people to support her, I’m just saying to recognize her flaws as a human being and politician can keep this nation alive longer than McCain’s.
So you think a Democratic congress would let McCain get away with same bullshit Bush did?
The log jam of pig-fucking corrupt repukes that has allowed Bush to shit on the constitution will be flushed this cycle.
A McCain impeachment could be rather cathartic…
Imagine the self-sacrifice involved with having the American flag tattooed onto your cock.
Does that comply with federal flag-folding regulations? I sense an outburst of Malkintent coutrage.
owlbear1:
Yeah, I kind of do.
We’re professionals at circular firing squads, not actual ones. A Democratic congress will only be effective at reining in the President if it’s a Democrat in the White House. Our media can’t do its job correctly in either situation, so that’s fucked as a rein-in.
I now have to choose between two versions of the Danish flag as a penile tattoo.
The Great Gazoogle informs me that the rectangulardannebrog version “should fly only during the day, and only on special days. There are a number of official flag days, though they are not mandatory. In addition, you should fly your flag on personal special days, like birthdays, weddings, etc.”
I prefer the elongated, swallow-tail splitflag version: “If you use one, it should fly day and night while the house is inhabited.”
I love our circular firing squad. It insures we don’t all don’t walk off the cliff.
What Smut, not big enough for both?
🙂
hmm, two “don’ts” make a “can’t”.
Too much space already taken up by the Skull-&-Crossbones, owlbear1. This way I am prepared for those times when the temptation strikes me to spit on my hands and “hoist the black flag”.
A Danish pirate?
Sorry but that sounds kind of flaky to me.
Quandary solved. I have decided to have the Dannebrog tattooed on my scrotum instead. This will prove that I have the flagstones.
I wanted to vote for Nader in 2000. Back then I still had respect for him, for his past as a consumer advocate, and from what I knew about him his positions were a lot closer to mine than Gore’s. (And Good Dog, Holy Joe for a running mate? Hard to swallow.) But in the end I voted for Gore – I was in a swing state, Iowa, and the state did indeed go for Gore, as it had for Clinton in the previous two elections.
Good-hearted & practical is always a good combo.
& no, I’m not saying that those who voted for Nader are impractical…
Maybe I should get a Hungarian/Bohemian flag penile tattoo, just because I’m a big ‘ol honky?
i’d get the louisiana state flag tatooed on my dick, but it has fucking pelicans on it.
the louisiana state flag … has fucking pelicans on it.
That probably sounds better in proper Heraldic terms.
we see the couples’ shrink at 5.
Does this involve your Russian friend? I feel obliged to point out that of all known languages, Russian has the most romantic way of saying “I love you” — “Ya lyublyu tebya”. Lots of lip activity there, plus incontrovertible proof of the dexterity of one’s tongue.
owl–unfortunately for people around me (though I’m quite happy with it), that’s kind of my whole life. Sticking to things regardless.
Phelps calls himself a lot of things. Hey, he was just a peaceful protester in way-too-tight-biker-shorts the day it was either him or me rolling down the hill at KU. Locally he’s a bad joke. Somehow he became a bad joke with a website.
Now that things are critical, I’m Obama all the way. I agree with what you said intensely. I want the most outside I can get. Maybe I just listened to too much Patti Smith as a kid. (No racial pun intended). Owl, I agree 100%. We can’t keep doing this to ourselves.
Growing up in Topeka, I remember seeing Phelps on public access TV. He would be at every city council meeting, in running shorts and a windbreaker and wrist bands, complaining about this or that specific inanity while the council just rolled their eyes. Then he took to the streets, making such an ass of himself and his family that it had the effect of pushing the ambivalent Midwesterners firmly to the gay rights side of the street.
Funny how that works.
nobody–you can point & laugh, but in Kansas in 96, Nader wasn’t allowed on the ballot. And he needed a percentage of votes nationwide to get federal funding (that added up to anything meaningful). Clinton was going to win, Kansas was going to go to my dear Baccalaureate speaker Bobdole. My vote mattered in the sense that it added to Nader’s funding, but otherwise? Not much. My local vote mattered, and I used it well. And Kansas was hardly the only state in that position.
Not tracking. You voted for him in 1996….but did you vote for him in 2000?
Absolutely. Sure, he’s not hitting as well as he did, but he’s only had like 60 at bats. I mean, for an almost-40 guy with no history of steroids, the Blue Jays were fools to…
huh?
Oh. Thomas Frank. My bad.
I supported Obama mostly because he was right on the Iraq war from the start
July 27, 2004 – “I find myself in fundamental agreement with George W Bush on the war in Iraq” – Barack Obama.
Wanna run that one again, sport?
If you’re wondering why actor212 didn’t leave a link to that statement by Obama it’s not just because he’s lazy and has bad internet manners, it’s because Obama never said that. He said something along those lines but actor212 has taken it out of context and edited it for our reading pleasure. The real story can be found in this Media Matters piece.
Lawnguy, didn’t you have a link at one time in your name?
What happened?
I could be mistaken, as that is my default mode (being mistaken, that is.)
Toby, if I did it was to a goof like the one in this comment. I do have a shell of a blog but I’ve never linked to it here.
I seem to remember a picture of you, in a tree? I don’t know, my memory is terrible.
I think I once linked to a picture of me rappelling amongst trees so you’re on the right track but why I did that is a mystery to me.
Had something to do with showing each other that we weren’t…something?
Do you live in the NW, too?
No, I live on Long Island. Or as many people out here pronounce it, lawnguyland. Hence the pseudo.
Lawnguylander — you win the thread for best secret origin story!