Hitler used it on everything.

Must be the hindu/buddhist connection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika I’ll bet it has tamari or miso in it. Jonah’s right: nasty.

Wait a second! That Swastika is Backwards!

Just turn your eyeballs inside out.

So does this prove that vegetarians are Nazis or Jews?

You marinade vegetarians in it before throwing them on the grill.

sophie brown said,

February 29, 2008 at 22:44

Must be the hindu/buddhist connection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika I’ll bet it has tamari or miso in it. Jonah’s right: nasty.

It would make sense considering that many Hindus are vegetarians.

Just don’t serve milkshakes, because that wouldn’t be kosher.

t-four: That’s what I thought too. I double checked, and there were both left and right facing swastikas on the subcontinent. That’s nopt exactly wat you’re saying but there it is.

But Siva! VEGETARIAN barbecue sauce? How the fuck can you have vegetarian barbecue? Oh, right. Got it.

Yeah, I think that’s Sanskrit or Telugu or sichlike.

There should be a law that green cleaning products have to come with swastikas because that kind of insidious shit is the zyklon b of liberal facsism.

What’s a good side dish with vegetarian?

Omnivore. Tastes of chicken.

As a Liberal Fascist, I enjoy this particular brand of Barbecue sauce when I dine on White Males – the Jews of Liberal Fascism.

If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?

humanities majors?

Maybe you put it on tofu or bean sprouts before barbecuing them.

I like it on embryonic stem cells. But only if they are produced by sperm and egg. None of these franken-cells for me, thank you very much. They must have souls or they’re just flat.

They must have souls or they’re just flat.

Aha! That’s what I’ve been doing wrong.

What’s a good side dish with vegetarian?

Beef. It’s what’s for dinner!

Was just reading Greenwald about Bush demanding the immunity for telecoms provision on the FISA/TSP/PAA legislation and it made me think of Arnie Ziff on the Simpson’s. “Because I am so respected, it would damage the town to hear it.”

Great.

The Nazi Vegan Hordes now have their Condiment Of The Concentration Camps.

We’re all doomed.

Speaking of doomed…

http://counterpunch.org/lindorff02292008.html

PeeJ–

While both right and left swastikas were found in various places around the world, the one depicted in the picture above was *not* found on the Nazi flag, which was, I suspect, t4toby’s point.

Here’s din-din

Condimentration Camp?

Barbecue sauce on grilled vegetables – I guess that’s for those who want to eat healthy, but not TOO healthy.

Vegetarian BBQ sauce is the sauerkraut of liberal fascism

Question: Is it kosher?

actor212 said,

February 29, 2008 at 23:35

Question: Is it kosher?

Speaking of Nazis… is it safe?

Andrew A. Gill,

That’s what I _thought_ I said. I see now that I said what I thought but didn’t think the thought was said as I think.

Not only am I prepared to retract any statmenet I may have made, I’m equally prepared to deny I ever said to begin with.

I like vegetarians. They taste good.

“So does this prove that vegetarians are Nazis or Jews?”

Yes. Duh.

That Swastika is Backwards!
It is in fact a sauvastika.
My ambition is to use that word in a Scrabble game.

I like vegetarians. They taste good.

See, I’ve got a dirty mind and consider that true* in a totally different context. I’m assuming, anway, and that’s central to my point. Also, Ralph Nader caused the Nazification of vegetarian barbecuing.

*More or less, anyway. Some folks are just funky, and that has more to do with a combination of basic hygiene (or lack thereof) and the daily intake of recreational poisons like alcohol and tobacco than pigging out on tofu. Is this all too much information?

Oh look, it’s made in Taiwan!

Hey, dumbass. The shwatickuh is backwards, which means it’s doubly reverse negative of all the negative connotations you didn’t think it hadn’t meant.

So suck on that.

If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?

If soybean oil is made of soybeans, whats baby oil made of?

doubly reverse negative of all the negative connotations you didn’t think it hadn’t meant.

Oooookay, but it was central to his point.

What’s a good side dish with vegetarian?
Nazi goreng.

Inside the label is there a coupon redeemable for one gold tooth?

mikey

I think we hit a new low. I blame Jonah.

I have a very nice Kipling set, circa 1910, that I got rilly rilly chepe because of the faux-Hindu design stamped in gold on the red leather spines. I happen to love Kipling — used to be able to recite “The Wreck of the Mary Deare” from memory. And my pretty Collected Works is also useful in exposing the Liberal Posers who are willing to make sweeping denunciations of a particular writer from third-hand reports. It’s perfectly okay not to appreciate Kipling, but assuming that he “must” be a racist because all the Kool Kidz say so marks the kind of people I haven’t the time with which to be hanging about.

Also, Matt T, it will perhaps be helpful in the future to know that the chemical sweeteners in diet colas change the taste of tobacco addicts and vegetarians. Of course it may not be easy to get a hardcore vegan to drink Diet Coke, but fortunately I’m from the generation that got hooked on high-sugar, high-salt tastes with our Gerber purees.

While both right and left swastikas were found in various places around the world, the one depicted in the picture above was *not* found on the Nazi flag, which was, I suspect, t4toby’s point.

Bingo.

the chemical sweeteners in diet colas change the taste of tobacco addicts and vegetarians

And how would you know that, Annie? 😉

Careful, Anne Laurie. I have, on occasion, professed my enjoyment of and appreciation for both Kipling and Houseman and have, in every case, been taken firmly to task for my heathen tastes by people armed with high velocity full automatic advanced degrees.

In all honesty, I don’t enjoy those two particular poets any less, but I am substantially more tight-lipped about it…

mikey

Anne Laurie,
I did not know that, thank you for the illumination. Ahh, Coca-Cola, is there nothing you cannot do?

And to be clearer, I don’t know for sure if hardcore vegetarianism or even hardcore veganism make the practicioners taste icky ’cause all the vegetarians/vegans that did taste off, that I’ve come in that sort of contact, also went after cheap booze and smokes like they were goddamn Coneheads. ‘Course, it’s only in recent years I’ve pondered such things and I’m skeptical of the that situation arising anytime in the near future, so someone else will have to take up the research, I suppose.

But I’ll remember the Diet Coke thing. That’s kinda weird when you think about, two poisons cancelling each other out in that particular way.

Nazi goreng.

Heh, indeed. And from a Musilm country, no less.

Vegans/vegetarians are bland, tough and stringy due to the lean nature of their diet.

You really got to work ’em over with the meat tenderizer.

Hey, I posted this earlier today in the Hillary/Nader bloodbath back a couple of threads, but I guess wordpress ate it because it had an embedded linkie thing.

I think you’ll all get a kick out of the Althouse take on McCain – Hagee.

I caught the link from Greenwald, and it’s pretty funny.

It’s here:
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-is-mccain-appearing-with-raving.html

mikey

The fact is, liberals loved Hitler and still admire him for his social reforms. They hope that Obama or Hitlery will do the same, especially outlaw guns. Then they will be sorry and get rounded up. By the muslims who impose Shania law.

Very funny making fun of a sucessful patriot like Jonah Goldberg.

He was right when he so elequently pointed out in his book that the concept of vegetarianism was fully embraced by the Nazis, just like it is by the modern American left and eco-terrorist groups such as PETA.

To be quite honest, I never understood why anyone would want to be a vegetarian since God makes clear in Genesis chapter 9 that he gave all living creatures for mankind to eat.

I’m a fourth generation cattle rancher up here just outside of Billings Montana. I make my living raising the finest qualtiy black angus beef in North America. So the modern leftwing concept of vegetarianism is quite foregin to me as it is to all of us in the Mountain West.

Gary 2008 just flat sucks. Sadly, it’s gonna be pie for him…

mikey

Anne Laurie said,

I have a very nice Kipling set,

I have one too, but I don’t know where it is now — I haven’t Kipled in years.

Rugged In Montana spells RIM. Teeheehee.

RIM is a supreme Jonanist.

Jerkstore said,

March 1, 2008 at 0:22

If soybean oil is made of soybeans, whats baby oil made of?

Freshly squeezed aborted fetuses (or is it fetii?).

You’ve got to be tough to love old literature. I like Kipling too but an SE Asian friend can’t read him or Maughm for their racism/imperialism. I can’t read certain books for the cruel seixism in them. Other people don’t see how I can laught at Woodhouse, the Germany-sympanizers. Each view has merit, and to each his own.

How about now, smarty-pants?

A rancher, a rabbi, and a booger walked into a bar…

While both right and left swastikas were found in various places around the world, the one depicted in the picture above was *not* found on the Nazi flag, which was, I suspect, t4toby’s point.

wrong.

The swastika is always right handed.

Other countries can have other versions but those are not swastikas. Those are hakenkreuz’s (german) or flyflots or whatever.

The swastika is the holiest symbol of Hinduism (the om is a syllable, not a symbol) and is always right handed. (left handed ones are considered ‘evil’ and NEVER seen in India, whereas the holy swastika is everywhere in India, doors, cars, houses, temples, cakes, festivals, you name it, the density is greater than that of crosses in the vatican).

Buddhists also use swastikas (since Gautam was a Hindu prince) but NEVER left handed in India. Asian countries have mutated forms of buddhism and their own asian words of whatever marks they use (but those by definition are not swastikas since they are not a shubhtika).

Since that soda can has a left handed swastika, even without the writing, it is
immediately obvious that it cannot be Indian…

Rogered is no more a rancher than G W Bush is.

Foo, you’ve got some serious pedantry juju going on. Pity you blew it by thinking that barbecue sauce is soda . . . or were you perhaps distracted by thinking of how you might make your vegetarians taste better?

Vegetarianism is a very unhealthy lifestyle for a number of reasons. The most prevalant is the lack of protein one is able to consume in a vegetarian diet. Lets face it, there is no better way to get protein than a nice juicy black angus steak. Vegans are even more foolish as they cannot even eat dairy products or eggs. Now how the devil is one gonna get protein with that kinda panty waist diet! Leave vegetarianism to the Tibetan monks and Eurotrash panty waists! Nothings more American than a big plate of meat and potatos.

The fact is, liberals loved Hitler and still admire him for his social reforms. They hope that Obama or Hitlery will do the same, especially outlaw guns. Then they will be sorry and get rounded up. By the muslims who impose Shania law.

This could be the funniest, stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Yeah, you can find Americans everwhere who just LOVED Hitler. I mean, I can’t even go to work without being accosted by a bunch of skinheads, telling me how liberal they are, and how much they and I love Hitler. Wait. Huh? That doesn’t make sense…

Sorry, I won’t spend much time exploring the psychological damage and horror that is Wingnuttia.

I say Gary is one of our hosts driving traffic. Not even a fake conservative can post something like this seriously, right? I refuse to believe my beloved country could produce anything this laughable.

Perhaps we could have a Pedant Olympics here. Different events, maybe even individual and team competitions.

Or even shopping! My damn grocery store is just crawling with Hitler lovers! I mean, there they are, fondling the cucumbers, and spouting passages from Mein Kampf! Nazi literature all OVER the place, too!

Don’t bother responding, fake-stupid Gary. I won’t engage. I can’t dial it down that far.

ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

March 1, 2008 at 1:37

A rancher, a rabbi, and a booger walked into a bar…

A dyslexic walks into a bra…

Perhaps we could have a Pedant Olympics here. Different events, maybe even individual and team competitions.

I REALLY like this concept. Obviously, I couldn’t be a competitor, but I’d happily volunteer to be a judge, or that failing, an enthusiastic observer.

I can see categories for grammar, etymology, medieval literature, comparative religion, Lichtenstein, wingnuttery and so many more.

This could drive Teh Sadly into the “A” list…

mikey

RIM said: God makes clear in Genesis chapter 9 that he gave all living creatures for mankind to eat.

Except of course for those abominable shellfish.

A sheep, a goat and a pony walk into a bar. Bartender says, what’ll ya have. The goat says, nothing right now, we’re just meeting mickey kaus….

mikey

A sammich walks into a bar…

I can see categories for grammar, etymology, medieval literature, comparative religion, Lichtenstein, wingnuttery and so many more.

Wait. That sounds a lot like college.

Other people don’t see how I can laught at Woodhouse, the Germany-sympanizers.

I don’t know if I’d go that far. From what I understand, Wodehouse was vacationing in an area the Nazis took over instead of returning to England, apparently not aware of how serious the whole situation was, and told some funnies to his fellow captives. This was used as a series of radio broadcasts aimed at America (not England), which, of course, was friggin’ stupid. Wodehouse was thoroughly checked over by MI5 and they decided that while he had indeed pulled a Woosteresque boner, he wasn’t a traitor or sympathizer. Exhibit B is the character of Roderick Spode. I’m not sure how one can read The Code Of The Woosters, written in 1938, and figure Wodehouse had facist sympathies.

Here’s a defence of Wodehouse by none other than George Orwell.

And you defend reading P.G. Wodehouse because that shit is fucking genius. Nothing humanity has done has been funnier. Maybe A Night At The Opera.

And you defend reading P.G. Wodehouse because that shit is fucking genius. Nothing humanity has done has been funnier. Maybe A Night At The Opera.

And “Rain in the Doorway”

mikey

I’m a huge Thorne Smith fan.

Obviously, I couldn’t be a competitor

You sell yourself short, sir. I for one would not relish coming up against you in the Comparative Weaponry or Recreational Chemistry divisions . . .

Nah, I lack the necessary discernment.

I’ll pretty much shoot anything that goes bang.

Blow up anything that make a big boom and a pretty flash.

And consume anything that pops, sizzles or purrs…

You can’t have a Pedant who’s all “Yay for Everything”.

Kinda defeats the whole purpose….

mikey

ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,

March 1, 2008 at 2:20

A sammich walks into a bar…

…and the bartender says, “Get outta here!”

The sammich says, “Why do you want me to leave?”

The bartender replies, “Because we don’t serve food here.”

mikey said,

March 1, 2008 at 2:56

Nah, I lack the necessary discernment.

I’ll pretty much shoot anything that goes bang.

Blow up anything that make a big boom and a pretty flash.

And consume anything that pops, sizzles or purrs…

Here’s what I learned about science from school:

If it blows up, it’s chemistry.

If it’s slimy, it’s biology.

If it doesn’t work, it’s physics.

. . . and the thread says, “No, I’m a frayed knot.”

What?

Damn you Buddha. Damn you to hell.

I had to go to the bathroom.

Susan, Mikey, Matt T: Plum Wodehouse also had a considerable effect on my literary style, although these days the Spousal Unit is a more dedicated fan than I. Have to look up Thorne Smith, though. And you all (along with GBear and Hoosier X) have reminded me that I need to re-read some of my H. Allen Smith books, because H. Allen had the best jaundiced view of Teh Sacred All-American Heartlanders after a certain Mr. Clemens.

So this duck walks into a bar, and he looks very happy. He says to the bartender, “Hi! My name is Huey! I’ve had a wonderful time being in and out of puddles all day.”

After he orders a drink, another duck comes into the bar, and says, “Hi! My name is Louie! I’ve had a wonderful time being in and out of puddles all day.”

After Louie orders a drink, a third duck walks into the bar, and the bartender says, “Let me guess…. your name is Dewey, right?”

The duck replies, “Actually, the name is Puddles. And don’t ask me how my day went.”

Anne Laurie and whoever:

Wodehouse, yes, in the pantheon.

But for something v. American and more recent, run do not walk to read The Dog of the South, by Charles (“True Grit”) Portis. Re-issued in 2000 and a laff on every page.

If I recall aright, the main reason PG & wife failed to leave France before getting overrun by German soldiers was that they were concerned about the prospect of their dogs being forced into quarantine by the British authorities, and thus delayed too long.

Now, if you want some real racist fun, try Bulldog Drummond — or even the early Saint, as the actress said to the Bishop.

Oh, Anne Laurie, I envy you. While I re-read Thorne Smith with a certain regularity, you can discover it all for the first time. Those are the real belly laughs.

In Mr. Smith’s world, everyone drinks with a vigorous dedication I find admirable, from start to finish, no one is sober. They also have a charming dificulty keeping their clothes on, with a kind of a naughty, jaded innocence that will make you smile. And there is ALWAYS a courtroom scene, with a judge desperately TRYING to do the right thing be frequently unable to make heads nor tails out of the drunken, erotic, magical exploits of those in his courtroom.

All written in the 1930s when so much was possible, and so much was frowned upon.

A joyous exploration awaits you..

mikey

Huh. Thorne Smith. Never heard of him, which delights me. A new author to explore is always a joy. Any of you fans want to recommend a title to start with, or should I go chronologically?

They are ALL hysterical. The stray lamb, the bishops jaegers, skin and bones, the nightlife of the gods, my favorite is rain in the doorway, but I’ll make you this promise. Read one, you’ll be on the hunt for the rest. It’s irresistible….

mikey

Look!

Smut Clyde said, “What’s a good side dish with vegetarian? Nazi goreng.”

Funniest thing I’ve read in weeks. Thanks, Clyde.

Some novels are on-line; the site says the copyright in Britain is expired.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/forgottenfutures/smith/smith.htm

(The link didn’t work earlier.)

Left-handed swastikas (which I will choose to call sauvastikas from now on) are common in Korea today.

Is it too late to make a joke about pot-stikas as an auspicious side-dish?

Did someone mention Pedantry? Ahem:

Notions that sauwastikas are considered “evil” or inauspicious versions of the auspicious swastika in Indian religions have even less substance, since even Burouf counts the svastika and the suavastika equally among the “sixty-five auspicious signs”.

I know the leather-bound Kipling set of which Anne Laurie speaks… my mother had the same edition (now in big sister’s custody). Here’s an image of Kipling’s swastika logo.
———————————-
And there is ALWAYS a courtroom scene,
Yes yes yes — with a red-faced apoplectic judge shouting at the protagonists in a futile attempt to restore decorum and uphold the dignity of the law.

Here’s a bit from “Rain in the Doorway” just as an example of the wonderful chaos that is a Thorne Smith novel:

Tenderly feeling his ear, Mr. Owen followed the boy to the senior partner’s private office. Here he was enthusiastically received and escorted up to one of the largest cocktail shakers he had ever seen. The Major, owing to his strength and size, was wrestling with this frost-coated vessel.

“It’s nice to drink a lot of cocktails before luncheon,” Mr. Larkin was telling everyone. “Of course, if you drink a whole lot of them you get quite drunk, but then, getting drunk is sort of nice, too.”

Mr. Owen received this surprising shred of information with a proper display of interest as he accepted a glass from the hands of the hovering Dinner. After he had swallowed its contents he was inclined to agree with Mr. Larkin. “It’s nice to get drunk before dinner, too,” quoth the Major, his deep voice rumbling pleasantly through the room.

“One can’t get drunk before Dinner,” the senior partner put in. “Dinner is always drunk.”

“No,” the small man objected. “He’s always getting drunk, but he never quite is—not dead, I mean.”

“Come! Come!” cried Mr. Larkin hospitably. “Drink up, everybody. To the new partner and the old ones. We simply have to get a skinful to stand that Kiarian luncheon.”

“Oh,” said Mr. Owen, visions of Satin in his mind and prints of her teeth in his ear. “Is that where we’re going?”

“It is,” replied the Major gloomily. “I’d much rather take you to a sporting house or a gambling dive.”

“So would I,” agreed Mr. Larkin. “I told him to remind me about brothels. Now, don’t forget everybody, bring up brothels.”

Mr. Dinner produced his notebook and made a painstaking entry.

“I have it down in black and white,” he announced, looking up from his book. “Here it is,” and he read: “Everyone is to remind H. Larkin about brothels.”

“That’s almost too black and white,” observed Mr. Larkin. “In case you were found dead, I wouldn’t want people to get the idea I had to be constantly reminded about brothels. No normal man should be as absent-minded as all that, should he? I know I’m not.”

“No,” said Mr. Dinner, his eyes blinking thoughtfully. “What you need is someone not to remind you of them. Suppose I put down a note like this: Everybody is to try to keep H. Larkin’s mind off brothels. How would that do?”

“It won’t do,” Mr. Larkin replied after a thoughtful pause. “People might get the impression I thought altogether too much about such places, and I wouldn’t like that, would you, Mr. Owen? You wouldn’t like it noised abroad that you just couldn’t think of anything else even if you seldom did.”

“Certainly not,” Mr. Owen agreed, and tossed off another cocktail. There was nothing out of the ordinary about this conversation. They were all jolly good fellows, sound, sensible men, and they drank delicious cocktails.

“You see?” cried Mr. Larkin. “He agreed with me. Put that notebook away, Dinner. There are some things I should be allowed to handle for myself. Besides, after we’ve finished that shaker, I think we’ll all be primed to call on Hadly at the bank and demand a line of personal credit for our new partner. He has to have some money, you know, or else he’ll be spending all of ours.”

The two other partners looked at Mr. Owen with frankly alarmed eyes. Evidently it was a decidedly disagreeable possibility.

“No,” murmured the Major, “that wouldn’t be so good.”

“Good,” gasped Mr. Dinner. “It would be just awful. Let’s rush to the bank.”

mikey

It’s all about the Venerable Bede.

Eths and monophthongs rock the 8th century.

liberals loved Hitler and … hope that Obama or Hitlery will do the same, especially outlaw guns.
Outlaw guns? If Gary ever gets a fact right, we will know that a quantum fluctuation has ruptured the time-space continuum and opened a wormhole through to another dimension.

Look, an ð!

Smut Clyde–

Excellent link.

Shtuppert and his ilk also fail to mention that, even if there were a hard and fast gun ban in place in Nazi Germany, it really doesn’t matter when 18 million adult men are in the Wehrmacht and SS and another 8 million boys are in the paramilitary Hitler Youth–all learning how to shoot to kill with some of the finest weaponry in world history.

BTW–how did you make the eth??? I’m basically computer illiterate, so I’d really like to know.

I assume this has been mentioned before (I’ll be damned if I’m reading all those comments.) but the Nazi Swastika breaks to the right. There are actually several types of Swastikas, and other symbols that use it in addition to other markings. The breaks-left one is primarily Buddhist symbol.

I did not so much steal the Nazi goreng joke, as rescue it. It was just lying there, going to waste…

Shtuppert and his ilk also fail to mention
That particular Gary was a parody Ruppert, but it was a good excuse to link to the Straight Dope page.
Someone should write a Greasemonkey script that patches the HTML page-source, inserting tags so that if a Ruppert comment includes the words Shania Law then it appears on the screen in bright pink lettering. Preferably someone other than me.

ð = & eth;
— but without the space after the ampersand. Also þ = & thorn; . Unicode makes these craven concessions in an attempt to appease the militant Icelandic hordes, but I’m sure they will merely lead to fresh demands.

I’m not sure, and I may be in well over my head, but I think I’d really like to run with the militant Icelandic Hordes.

I’m pretty sure we could intimidate your average american shopkeeper.

Into giving us, well, shit….

mikey

Why do you not stock Fermented Shark Fin, american-shopkeeper níðingr?
And the Sheep-head? There is no sheep-head on the shelf! It is a deliberate on our cuisine!
Þá vil ek bjóða þér hólmgöngu ok þat!

mikey and susan of texas: Thorne Smith is the best! I’m so happy to hear you love him as much as I do!

When the Nazi Vegan Hordes meet the Militant Icelandic Hordes there can only be one way to determine supremacy…

…a Rune-Off!

Sigs v Isazs at dawn.

Leave us alone. We like it here under the dragon. It’s nice and warm.

I think we hit a new low.

Ahem.

Some days work really produces.

Righteous Bubba said,

How dare you Sir!

HOW DARE YOU INSULT SAINT RALPH LIKE THAT!1ONE!

I’ve been living in India for the last couple years, and that symbol — the proper, ancient Vedic version — is in use all over the place. The Nazis took it, turned it backwards and rotated it 45 degrees — and believing it a symbol of powerful Aryan black magic, made it their own.

The Hindus, by the way, saw the perversion of their holy symbol as a blasphemy… But the wise among them also believed that the divine forces would balance the karma in the end.

Generations later, in India, they continue using the proper Swastik symbol as it was originally intended. And only the grossly ignorant and deliberately uninformed go all giggly when the symbol is seen displayed prominently on products, on signs, on buildings, and on many, many holy sites.

Fortunately we don’t live in India so it’s HILARIOUS!!!!!!

Oy, India! You stole our Fylfot! Ya dirty stroðinn! Wanna make something of it?!

Many factors are converging at once to make this blog very enjoyable.

Left-handed swastikas (which I will choose to call sauvastikas from now on) are common in Korea today.

So are left-handed smokeshifters.

mikey–

Never read Smith. I love that excerpt. I’m signing up. Ten thous. thanks!

I know very little about Kipling aside from what I have gleaned from his work. When I read “White Man’s Burden,” I thought Kipling was certainly being ironic or sarcastic, but in a very subtle way that the jingos wouldn’t get it.

(Like the way conservatives use Springsteen’s “Born in the USA” at campaign rallies without really paying attention to what it SAYS. (But then “not paying attention” seems to be one of the few things they are good at.))

I may be wrong about Kipling. I’ve read mountains of his poetry, The Jungle Books, the Just-So Stories, The Man Who Would Be King, and some other assorted short stories, so I’m not any kind of an expert. But I just find it hard to believe that such an intelligent, witty, perceptive, entertaining writer could have written something as seemingly blunt and stupid as “White Man’s Burden” unless he’s being critical.

I suspect that his feelings toward the East were somehwat complex, a confusing mixture of romantcisim and nostalgia on one hand, and an educated ambiguity (at worst) or strong disgust toward imperialism on the other.

But like I said, this is my view based on his writings alone. I read White Man’s Burden in class when I was TA for an American History class (I was talking about the Philippine Insurrection after the Spanish-American War) and it seemed to work pretty well as a criticism of American actions in the Philippines.

On the swastika debate: I know there are a number of differing symbols that American call swastikas, and I know that these symbols appear in many world cultures that differ markedly from Nazi usage. But I don’t know which is left-handed and which is right-handed. I’m looking at both varieties and I can’t see that one is more right-handed than the other. (Although I do know which one was most used by the Nazis. Is that the “left-handed swastika”? )

The Kipling swastika is the good one? Is that right?

The swastika shows up, in a stylized form, in the Mandelbrot movie. Of course, you can see anything that you want to in the Mandelbrot set . . .

Did you hear about the man who asked a woman if she liked Kipling? She said, “Why no, I’ve never tried it.”

I may be wrong about Kipling… But I just find it hard to believe that such an intelligent, witty, perceptive, entertaining writer could have written something as seemingly blunt and stupid as “White Man’s Burden” unless he’s being critical… I read White Man’s Burden in class when I was TA for an American History class (I was talking about the Philippine Insurrection after the Spanish-American War) and it seemed to work pretty well as a criticism of American actions in the Philippines.

Hoosier X: Bingo! Kipling was an Englishman of his times, but more importantly, he was an Indian-born Englishman, and a poet (or therefore a poet, quite possibly). “Baa Baa Black Sheep” is one of the most horrifying autobiographies of an abused child ever written, and the semi-fictionalized STALKY & CO, under its cheerful Boys-Own bluffness, isn’t much less heartbreaking. Kipling’s writing about Teh Lower Classes is informed by the same personal experience as Dickens’ or Twain’s fiction, and that’s one reason all three writers have been so widely translated — and loved.

“I don’t know, you naughty boy, I’ve never kippled.”
Say it right!

Courtney Thorne-Smith? Really? Of Up Your Jim or whatever that show is? Wow.

H. Allen Smith rules, as they say. Another forgotten/neglected funny man is ol’ S. J. Perelman. Both worth a look, & you never know what you can steal from them!!

And the better picture of the swastican linked to by Herr Doktor Smut says it’s for making Hot Pot Food tasty. Hippies!!

Susan of Texas – thank you, thank you! I love having someone new (to me) and great to read; and bonus points for being public domain!

Wow, nazi goreng and pot-stikas in the same thread. Herr Dr.’s really got his game today. I stand in Woosteresque admiration. As Bertie never found reason to say:

“Smut, you stand alone.”

I was going to suggest Hermann Goreng as an alternative punchline, but I’m pretty sure Nazi goreng is better. Still, there it is. Feel free to use it if your victim doesn’t get the better joke.

Vegetarian BBQ sauce huh? What an odd concept.

Do you know why guys don’t like to eat vegetables? Cuz they’re so hard to get back in their wheelchair afterwards…

Yes, I know….I am going straight to hell