Online Etymology Dictionary – yokel

1812, perhaps from dial. Ger. Jokel, disparaging name for a farmer, originally dim. of Jakob. Or perhaps from Eng. yokel, dialectal name for “woodpecker.”

And I always thought it was peckerwood…

This post is even more amusing if you have “Dueling Banjos” running through your head as you read it.

Some folk’ll never ask for disaster assistance for their BBQ grill that fell over in the rain, but then again, some folk’ll… like CY the slack-jawed yokel.

I must take issue to the characterization of the Disciples of Christ as some kind of wingnut, crackpot evangelical church. My wife is a member and believe me when I say that that characterization doesn’t even begin to qualify for her. Her sister’s boyfriend is an ordained minister in the Disciples church and obtained his degree by arguing his thesis that Christ’s divinity is irrelevant and unlikely to be true in any fashion.

As a church, they are most frequently associated with the UCC (to which Obama belongs). They are the first mainstream Protestant church to have a woman as their General Minster; one of their fundamental tenets is that “Individual members are free to follow their consciences; they are expected to extend that freedom to others. Members are encouraged to seek guidance from scripture, study, and prayer, but to develop their own opinions about most issues.”

As far as democratic issues go, they are one of the more bottom up churches I’ve ever seen, each individual church free to choose its own particularway of doing business with no upper hierarchy coming down on them. Now, yes, Reagan was a member, but so was LBJ, so is actress Frances McDormand, and so once upon a time was Gene Robinson, the Episcopal church’s first openly gay bishop.

Yes, there were splinters and are more radical right break away sects from the main body of the Disciples (let us not forget Jim Jones!), but to describe them as Talibanesque is worse than just a slander, it’s factually inaccurate.

Now me, I’m an atheist, so I think all their sky-daddy chin-music is hokum for the cornpone-lovers, but I’ve sat in on enough of their services to know that the characterization here is off base, way off base.

Gomer needs to put together a hi-powered PR team to help git him one of those Pullitizer Prizes for his semenal work on Scott Beaichamp. I’m thinking PJ Comix and Dan Collins just might be the guys to pull it off.

Think you can stomach watching CY interviewing Fred Thompson?

Test yourself.

Thank you, HTML, for giving us the correct spelling of “Guhuylk”. I shall be using it regularly from now on.

Yeah, just to echo The Critic, Disciples of Christ — despite the militant sounding name — are usually pretty lefty.

the more i learn about these hideous people the more terrified i become. it’s not as if they’re centralized in one remote spot; they could be living next door or on the next block.

it’s not as if they’re centralized in one remote spot; they could be living next door or on the next block.

You may want to report them to homeland security. Word has it they like blowing stuff up real good.

There is another sad group of yokels, those who want to become educated and go to college and are then forever doomed to arguments with their parents about why lacy matching curtains in floral prints aren’t going to make the house look better. (No, not me, my Mom).

Lesley–my street is like that movie “The Lost Boys”. I chased away the obvious “Kiefer Sutherland vampires”, the nutjobs with 8 kids who called me a dirty Mexican and all, but then the head vampire turned out to be the guy across the street from me, who has seemingly bitten the neck of the people next to him….anyway, we’re “not real Christians” now, so I just brought on the “dirty Mexican” Catholic statuary outside and the rainbow flags, incense, loads of Iggy and the Stooges, plenty of Bauhaus, and almost as much mockery as on this site. Oh, it’s on my blog somewhere. I’ll just write more. It’s too funny not to at this point, even though they are taking over. It’s kind of my topic.

This is the revenge of the Confederacy.

Disciples of Christ aren’t so lefty in the South. Or, at least, that’s my experience (though several have been personally friendly to me over the years).

I’m pretty sure he was specifying not Disciples of Christ, but Disciples of Christ (Ronald Reagan), which is different. I’m sure the regular DoC do not hold communion by passing out wafers made of baked sheets of Federalist Society screeds and drinking trickle-down.

Its worth pointing out that the fishbowl said Jokels are used to living in is rife with selective tribal blindspots. They get quite pissy when the “wrong people” get the power to go through their underwear drawer. Then its all about militias and Big Gubbmit, “outside agitators”, and so on.

Just watch as the “I got nuthin’ to hide” crowd does a total 180 on domestic spying when Hillary or Obama take the oath of office.

Why do you liberals keep bashing Christianity? Its only the single greatest force for good in the world. Jesus Christ the Holy Son of God came down to earth in the form of a Man. He was crucified and died so our sins could be forgiven, He was buried and three days later He rose from the dead! In order to get saved all you have to do is:

!. Know that you are a sinner and eternally seperated from God.

2. Believe that the penalty for sin is death, eternal seperation from God in hell.

3. Know that neither you nor your works can save you.

4.Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for your sins on the cross, was buried and rose from the dead in His physical body.

5. Ask Jesus to give you eternal life and sincerly mean it.

Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus is Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God hath raised Him from the dead thou shalt be saved.”

Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Only Jesus Christ can save you though His death, burial and ressurection. No one else can save you nor can any other religion, ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE YOU!

Pray a simple prayer such as this and truely mean it.

Dear Lord Jesus I know I am a sinner, I believe that you died for me on the cross so that my sins can be forgiven. I believe that you were buried and rose from the dead. I ask you to come into my life as my Lord and Savior. In Jesus name Amen.

My friend if you prayed this prayer and truely meant it, then rejoice because you are saved!

Ah, yokels, rubes, and cedarchoppers. I’ve known some down-home characters who were absolutely first-class human beings in every meaningful way. And I’ve known some who were living redneck-asshole archtypes, doubles for the two malignant hicks in the ‘Redneck Rampage’ picture. There are some pretty creepy guys out there in the boonies.

The yokel has scarcely any privacy at all. His neighbors know everything that is to be known about him…

What was true in 1926 was still very much true when I lived in a small town decades later. One reason I prefer cities.

Mr. Booger, you just believe whatever makes you feel good about your self. It’s what Christians are good at after all.

Gun Counter Gomer asking Freddie Thompson about “the will of the people.” Hee hee. Who else was big on “will,” again? They conveniently ignore the polled will of the 70% of the people who want us out of Iraq, of course. Not quite the “will” they’re talking about.

Well, that’s all well and good for those who choose to follow Jesus, but what does BB think of those who follow Ronald Reagan, and consecrate His memory by shouting that the first and second born children of other peoples’ families should be sent to war against various Canaanites real and imagined?

Bastion–why the heck do you fundies have to make Christianity look so embarrassing? Honestly! Almost everything you said is right out of the fundie book of witnessing. You brought up “works”, hence bashing the Catholic and Orthodox out there, you mentioned “know that you are a sinner” FIRST (that’s a BIG tip-off; I’m guessing Baptist by your ordering of this to-do list), and you quote ONLY from Romans.

Why do you fundies only quote from Romans? Why is LAW so much more important to evangelicals than LOVE (as Bruce Bawer put it in aptly in “Stealing Jesus”)? Why the masterful impressions of the Pharisees and the obsession with LAW when you claim to follow Jesus, who scoffed at all of these notions?

Fuck, I was just coming back here to see if I had different comment options in Safari….

Once you get saved make sure you find a local Church or Congergation that teaches the plain truth of the Bible so that you can grow in Christ. I personally am a Baptist. Try to find an Independent Baptist Church near you and make sure you attend weekly so that you can grow in your new relationship with Jesus Christ.

Because Pim, good works and being nice to people doesn’t save you. Only Jesus Christ can save you through the power of His death, burial and ressurection.

Jesus did indeed teach Christians to love each other and to do good works after you get saved. However those things can’t save you only Christ can save you.

You’re not a rabbi this week, huh?

good works and being nice to people doesn’t save you.

Who wouldn’t want to belong to a philosophy like that?

I wonder why Christianity has caused so many atrocities through history, just because it teaches that there is no point in being good to other people. . .

I never said I was a Rabbi. You must be confusing me with some other Conservative. Who might that be?

“Try to find an Independent Baptist Church near you and make sure you attend weekly so that you can grow in your new relationship with Jesus Christ.”

No. Not if it makes me a Bible quoting (much easier than coming up with your own thoughts and arguments) drone like you. Pathetic, humorless dolts like you have pretty thoroughly turned me away from any of those Abrahamic religions. If this is what it does to ya’ forget it!

Technical notes: The “New Media Paradigm’s” media player doesn’t have any controls besides play & pause. I suppose most of their Fox News demographic audience may not have mastered the remotes for their tee vees yet, so PJM may not want to confuse them.

Random questions: What happened to Simon’s hair? Does Gomer Pile think that yellow shirt & $5.00 tie look good?

You can’t go to Heaven unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. You are making a HUGE MISTAKE by not asking Him into your life Gundamhead.

Once you get saved make sure you find a local Church or Congergation that teaches the plain truth of the Bible so that you can grow in Christ. I personally am a Baptist. Try to find an Independent Baptist Church near you and make sure you attend weekly so that you can grow in your new relationship with Jesus Christ.

so its only good baptists that get saved? the catholics are screwed, I assume….

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have Everlasting life.”

No, BB, Jesus didn’t just teach his followers to to love one another, he taught his followers to love and forgive their enemies and those who hate them.

When you’re big enough to forgive bin Laden in public, then (and only then) will I take your religious pronouncements as anything more than self-justification and tribal clubbiness.

I never said only Baptists are saved. I only said that I personally am a Baptist. Anyone whether Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Episcopalian or Jewish who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior is saved.

They get quite pissy when the “wrong people” get the power to go through their underwear drawer.

I was once chased down a gravel road by a mental case in a pickup truck because I stopped my car to photograph some grain sheds gleaming in sunshine against an approaching summer storm.

He didn’t really get my ‘I like to take pretty pictures’ explanation but I did convince him I wasn’t from the gubmint.

Please make the troll stop typing his filthy obscenities. I don’t come here to be offended like that.

Why is LAW so much more important to evangelicals than LOVE

Well, what’s funny is when it’s the US Constitution, LAW isn’t very important to right wingers at all.

Oh, and you know what, Booger? I grew up with people like you. You can stick it up your ass.

Anytime one of these sanctimonious christians tells me I’m going to hell, I say, “Yup, I’ll see you there!” For some reason, it seems to piss them off.

And isn’t “Independent Baptist Church” something of an oxymoron?

Jesus loves each and every one of you. He wants to save you all and come into your lives as your Lord and Savior.

Hey, M. Bouffant. You live in WeHo, right? Or Hollywood?

A beautiful, smart, young woman with a great future before her died at the intersection of Melrose and Crescent Hts. Saturday night. I’m fucking bummed out.

I’m having some wine.

so its only good baptists that get saved? the catholics are screwed, I assume….

Not to mention the “unperfected” Jews…

My take is that if you believe in hell you’re going there, ’cause you know you’re an evil sinner. If you don’t believe, then it’s the sweet release of death, & cessation of consciousness. Can’t wait.

Jesus loves you g and wants to comfort you. Why don’t you ask Him right now to come into your life as your Lord and Savior? He loves you and wants to give you eternal life. Also I am very sorry about that poor young woman I pray that she is in the loving arms of God.

Buddha loves you Bastion, and just wants to show you the path to true enlightenment. Why won’t you let him into your life?

I never said only Baptists are saved. I only said that I personally am a Baptist. Anyone whether Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Episcopalian or Jewish who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior is saved.

Ok, that’s it. He’s a parody. Has to be.

They conveniently ignore the polled will of the 70% of the people …

But, y’see MB, those 70% aren’t real Americans. BB and F-GR were riffing those kind of “majority” statements in the previous thread. There’s no reason to assume that BB’s catch phrases only coincidentally google back to white power screeds. Just take their words at face value, and you’ll find they are pretty consistent.

I encourage you liberals right now to go to http://www.christiananswers.net

It has some very good Bible truths.

g, caught that on the other thread. And the other near mortality. Someone was killed in an accident two blocks from me (on Fountain near Fairfax) a few yrs. ago, when hit by someone being chased by the CHP. I got bad news today too.

Yeah, if you believe in a God who worries about whether or not people ‘believe’ properly in him or his son, and depending on this will send your dead ghost to live in happy land or eternal torture, you’re a childish idiot, and your God is a vain, tyrannical little sh*t who I happily invite to suck my *ss.

the appalling thing about what I wrote
the more i learn about these hideous people the more terrified i become. it’s not as if they’re centralized in one remote spot; they could be living next door or on the next block.
is that it matches what wingnuts say about blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, Muslims, homosexuals and lesbians, etc.

I guess this means I’ve become a wingnutacist or something.

As much as I’d like to embrace all of humanity, I find myself despising people who are hateful and vile toward others; but this makes me a hater too. I also hate them for stirring up this hatred in me…oh dear.

Does Jesus love Osama bin Laden or not, BB? And if he does, aren’t you compelled to do the same? What happened to the command to “love your enemies”?

I’m sure virtually all the trolls here are parodists, except when sent over by their masters when said masters are cut to the quick by something our kind & tolerant hosts have posted. You’ll note that BoogerB was pretty much a drooling idiot spouting the same ol’ same ol’, then suddenly starts w/ the Jeebus junk. May not even be the same person. Your typical fan of Cheesis K. would find it the height of naughtiness to call itself “Booger” on the internet.

When Jesus gave His Sermon on the Mount He was referring to private citizens in their own private matters when dealing with each other. He by no means had Nation States or Governments in mind when He commanded, “Turn the other cheek”, or, “Love your enemies”. He was referrig to private citizens. In Romans chapter 13 for example the Apostle Paul said that governments have “the power of the sword”, meaning the God given authority to wage war and put criminals to death.

But, y’see MB, those 70% aren’t real Americans.

Well, we wouldn’t want any of that tyranny-of-the-majority stuff. In a healthy democracy only the most batshit insane get their way.

I got bad news today too.

I’m sorry, m bouffant, about your bad news too.

It’s just shitty, is what it is. Someone who’s 26, or 15 isn’t ready to go yet.

and, booger, you can just shut the fuck up.

g, I pray that your friend is in the loving arms of God right now. I am very sorry about what happened I will pray for you.

What happened to the command to “love your enemies”?
And to turn the other cheek, rather than blindly lash out @ the first available target? Wha’hoppen, G. W. Bush?

It always amazes me that Christians explain what their god is like, then expect smart people like me to worship him. Let me get this straight . . . this god of yours is such a massive asshole that if you don’t grovel in front of him night and day, you’ll suffer FOR ETERNITY. You could be the best person in the world, help millions of people, whatever, but unless you get your grovel on, you go into EVERLASTING FIRE when you die.

Yeah, tell me again how “god is love” . . . .

You’ll note that BoogerB was pretty much a drooling idiot spouting the same ol’ same ol’, then suddenly starts w/ the Jeebus junk. May not even be the same person.

Bastion Booger is our old pal Saul.

I’m not going to heaven and I’m not going to hell. I’m an atheist who’s bored with booger, so I’m going to bed.

Thats not true. Once saved always saved. All you have to do to avoid Hell is ask Jesus to give you eternal life and truely mean it. Once you are saved you can never lose your salvstion.

Oh, that’s just wonderful. So you can be the biggest shit in the world, a fucking Nazi, and that’s just fine as long as you grovel.

Fuck you and your god, bb. Both equally useless.

As far as democratic issues go, [DoC] are one of the more bottom up churches I’ve ever seen, each individual church free to choose its own particularway of doing business with no upper hierarchy coming down on them.

That’s the fatal flaw of all ‘bottom-up’ organizations: they’re susceptible to the local (yokel) Strong Man who yanks his whole congregation in the direction of his own personal agenda. The good part is, individual worshippers aren’t supporting an encrusted hierarchy whose most important goal is ensuring the continued profitability of that hierarchy (and I say this as someone who grew up in the Catholic Church, which knows from encrusted). The bad part is, when one guy (almost always a y-chromosome guy) or a small cabal of like-thinking elders manages to take over their local congregation, there’s no real check on how far to one end of the sociopolitical spectrum they can “force” their fellows. If I read Garry Wills’ biography correctly, Reagan grew up as a Disciple because his mother wanted a strict Christian community that wouldn’t expel her for (a) marrying an Irish Catholic drunk or (b) having some fairly theatrical ambitions of her own… she was too “liberal” for the local Baptists and too “low rent” for the local Methodists. The few modern Disciples I have run across here in New England have been much more ‘traditionalist’ politically — many of them seem to be refugees from Episcopal or Methodist congregations that became a little to gay- or feminist-friendly. Which, in practical terms, means they will sanction a church wedding for a congregant’s 16-year-old non-attending daughter to the 17-year-old father of her toddler, but *only* if the presiding minister recites a 40-minute wedding sermon featuring references to every fallen woman, scarlet whore, and other sexy abomination that the board could find in their NKJV bibles, plus a coda specifying that bastardry was still preferable in the eyes of god to the crime of fetus-murder.

Because — to get back to HTML’s thesis — Yokel-dom is perhaps the natural state of humankind at the lowest level above hunter-gatherer. We are all psychologically biased towards our own “tribe”, and the Yokel perceives his tribe as those of his immediate neighbors who have as many similarities as possible with his own nuclear family. Within that network, when they’re feeling secure, Yokels can be generous and forgiving, as long as they believe their generosity is serving People Like Them. And while the original Mencken may have cherished the misconception that all Yokels lived in the rural reaches of the Pellagra Belt, quite a few of the modern tribe lives in big cities (think Archie Bunker, or the firefighters in RESCUE ME), and perhaps the majority of them live in the highly-sorted suburb/exurb “development communities” where even the colors of the houses, the height of the approved plants on the mandated front lawns, and the acceptable number of cars parked on each driveway are subject to fiat. Naturally, their favorite blogsites replicate their preferred lifestyle — individualism is permissible only insofar as it supports the general “theme” of each little like-minded community, and in those cases where commenting is permitted all posters are subject to ongoing inspection and frequent banning.

Booger believes if you say the magic words, you get a free pass to do all kinds of shit.

But if it means having to spend eternity with people like him, I vote for hanging with my homeys instead.

Oh and GOD IS ALWAYS CAPITALIZED PEOPLE!

Alright, Booger, you lame shit, why did your so-called god allow any of this to happen? What pathetic cop-out will you come up w/ this time?

Am I correct in assuming one needs Firefox for the pie eatin’ contest? ‘Cause I’m tired of Booger, & I’m tired of Idiot Exploder 7 having a fit w/ Flash.

There’s a style guide for wingnuts. Great.

Go to http://www.christiananswers.net to have your questions about Christianity answered.

New term: Christroll.

I don’t believe Bastion Booger is serious. I’d love to hear about whether or not Gandhi is in heaven, tho.

Am I correct in assuming one needs Firefox for the pie eatin’ contest?

I’m using Firefox, and I’m having no trouble feeding our little friend all the pie he wants. I don’t know if it works with Explorer.

And once again, this is the same troll as Saul. He likes to play-act. A couple weeks ago he was a rabbi, today he’s a born-again Christian. He seems to be an adolescent.

Jim, it says on your my space page one of your interests is skepitism, what kind? UFOs?

Good line from Gandhi: “I like your Christ, but I don’t like most of your Christians.” So my guess is no, especially as he was defying a godly Xtian nation that was trying to civilize the “wogs.”

What makes you think I myself and Saul are the same person? We are not.

Oh, you checked the Sitemeter™ didn’t you? Tricky.

Booger, why won’t you be touched by the FSM’s noodley appendage?

He just wants you to go to heaven, filled with beer volcanoes and stripper factories!

Farten Burger!

That’s the fatal flaw of all ‘bottom-up’ organizations: they’re susceptible to the local (yokel) Strong Man who yanks his whole congregation in the direction of his own personal agenda.

I’m starting to attend the local Quaker meeting, and I’m curious to see if this principle applies there. I haven’t been going long enough to see a pattern, and in any case the Quakers don’t seem to have any “hook” like a position of power for a strongman to grab onto.

I’ve heard that some people don’t consider Quakers Christians, but I can’t imagine why not. Is it because they don’t insist on having you tick the box in the little Chick tract coupon that says “Yes! I have accepted Jesus as my personal savior (whatever the hell that means)!”?

Is it because they don’t support the various wars the Fundagelicals insist we have to fight so the world can end? Help me out here, Booger.

…oh, right, you like pie.

Personally I would like to see Volkswagens spilling out of a clown, not that I dislike clowns or anything.

My favorite line of this thread:

GOD IS ALWAYS CAPITALIZED PEOPLE!

No, not always. Watch: god. See? Wasn’t capitalized there.

And what exactly is the punishment for forgetting to use the GOD LOCK key? An eternity of hellfire and damnation! Or is this one just a misdemenor?

Not to mention the “flying rodent” backyard trebouchet.

Oh, and off topic (or is it back on, I can’t tell anymore), I used to work with the guy brandishing the crowbar.

I hit a raccoon with a crowbar once. The little bugger was eating the tomatos in my garden.

Herr Doktor, I think we’re the only ones paying any further attention to this thread. And remember, backyard trebouchets don’t fling rodents, people fling rodents. That’s according to the National Trebouchet Association.

GOD IS ALWAYS CAPITALIZED PEOPLE!

This reads better as “god has always capitalized people.”

No charge.

I had a little too much to drink me thinks.

Has anyone heard from Gavin lately?

…the height of the approved plants on the mandated front lawns, and the acceptable number of cars parked on each driveway are subject to fiat.

Are there actually places like that in the US, someone told me about that the other day and I thought he was joking. And us Eurabains are supposed to be over regulated. What happens if you grow your bushes 20cm too high?

As for Xtains, old Bill Hicks said it best; “.. eternal damnation for those who don’t accept Christ’s everlasting love…” (or words to that effect),

and BB love pie

Hey Sam. Good call! But UTAH IS ALWAYS CAPITALIZED, PEOPLE!

That Booger troll was a pain in the fucking ass!

I think he wants some more pie.

Lookit that chin.

I’ve seen carp with stronger, wider mandibles than CY.

It feeds its’ insecurity.

He looks like a fucking munchkin for cryin out loud.

My father-in-law was a Disciples of Christ pastor for 40 years before retiring three years ago. I can’t speak for other parts of the country, but here in the Northwest the DOC is a liberal denomination, and the members I have known are fairly laid-back people. Bible pounders they’re not. My wife said her dad never preached about sin or hellfire or damnation. “In our church, we stressed that God is love,” she said.

I used to go to church with her when we were dating in the mid-80s. I considered it detox from the ill-effects of a childhood spent in the LCMS. Eventually I renounced the Sky Daddy entirely. My wife occasionally attends a UCC church these days, but only if the Seahawks aren’t playing until the afternoon.

I avoid church religiously. You could say it’s my religion.

Make me believe.

Just take me away from this hell I’ve created

And I’m afraid.

I’m breaking my own vows slowly I’ll go down in flames!

when the pastor in two wet suits left this world, his final “Ooooh Gooooood! was probably in caps.

Pastor! You mean pass gaster!

Get it right!

Sudden outbreak of name-stealing again. Someone has too much spare time.

I’m the real Herr Doktor Bimler

Won’t the real Doktor Bimler please stand up?!

At least the current person using the Bimler name has done some research and noted my obsessions with (1) trebuchets, (2) clowns and (3) alcoholic excess. And he or she hasn’t turned offensive yet.
But I don’t think I’ve ever said “ass” (except in the donkey sense) — on account of being an Antipodean where we say “arse” — or mentioned raccoons.

You liberals are DOOMED!

GOD IS ALWAYS CAPITALIZED PEOPLE!

CAPITALIZED PEEEEEOPLE! You’ve gotta tell them. You’ve gotta tell them!

Shut your cake-hole, you Nazi.

You liberals are no match for my Right Wing Empire!

Bwahahahaha!!!

“Thats not true. Once saved always saved. All you have to do to avoid Hell is ask Jesus to give you eternal life and truely mean it. Once you are saved you can never lose your salvstion.”

No no my snot nosed troll. I was once born again. I am now an unbeliever. In fact, I’ll spell it out for you.

I reject God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. I reject them utterly and completely.

Anyways, I hear you like pie.

Plonk!

Yup, you sure do loves you some pie!

#

Bastion Booger said,

Once you get saved make sure you find a local Church or Congergation that teaches the plain truth of the Bible so that you can grow in Christ. I personally am a Baptist. Try to find an Independent Baptist Church near you and make sure you attend weekly so that you can grow in your new relationship with Jesus Christ.

Sounds suspiciously like “Saul,” the “Jooz fer Jeebus” troll.

ugh…i’m going to bed, but i just wanted to check in real quick as a christian who is not crazy and who would rather go to the dentist than proselytize, any day (and i don’t have dental insurance, so that is a frighteningly expensive proposition.)

i apologize for those of us who think that it’s cool to try to browbeat/shame/threaten others into saying magic words or converting or “getting saved” or whatever, or who have missed the entire point of the gospels altogether. we’re not all like this, i promise. i don’t believe in hell, don’t support war, think that social and economic inequality is a critical spiritual issue, have positively no patience whatsoever for homophobia, and i think we all were born just fine the first time around.

goodnight.

Herr Doktor, I was surprised to see you mentioning raccoons: I didn’t think there were that many of the little buggers in NZ. Of course, I’ve only visited there the once, and for all I know the last few years have been raccoon-a-go-go in our eastern neighbour.

Are there actually places like that in the US, someone told me about that the other day and I thought he was joking. And us Eurabains are supposed to be over regulated. What happens if you grow your bushes 20cm too high?

Sadly, Yes! — although as part of our Amurkin resistance to your effete Eurabian metricky-zation we measure our “neighborhood eyesore” lawns in inches, not centimetres. You have heard (mostly insults, probably) about “gated communities”? Well, only some of them have actual gates, but many ‘planned developments’ require people buying homes to sign contracts, or covenants, stating that they will adhere to a list of Thou-Shalts and Thou Shalt-Nots. The usual argument is that any deviation lowers the property value of every other house on the street, because the sort of people who want to live in a planned development don’t want to have neighbors with unorthodox ideas. Most of the common caveats — properly watered lawns not over 3″, no front-yard decorations except by prior approval, all condo windows to be faced with white or buff coverings — are pretty innocuous. But quite a few are taken, if not intended, as “dog whistle politics”… like rules about “no vehicles with business logos to be parked in driveways” or “no more than ‘x’ vehicles per household”, which are said (meant?) to discourage working-class/ethnic/immigrant multigenerational extended families (or, even worse, groups of 6 or 8 or 10 unrelated ‘illegal immigrants’ or ‘students’, who might rent a house from an absentee owner).

Usually the punishment for any violation of these codes is a simple fine; I understand that in some of the richer communities they prefer to hire professional landscapers to mow the offending lawn or remove the unauthorized garden gnomes, and then bill the nonconforming householder for the expense. On the other hand, there are periodic stories in the news about neighborhood squabbles that go beyond mere sniping — right after 9/11, there were a spate of stories about patriotic Americans choosing to display American flags in ways their neighbors found unseemly (in some cases, because the flags were floodlighted & the glare kept people from sleeping). And a couple of weeks ago, I vaguely remember a story about an elderly lady in the Salt Lake City area who was actually arrested for “failing to respond to repeated complaints” about her messy lawn — she was too frail to do her own yardwork and couldn’t afford to pay to have it done for her.

Of course, I get all this information second-hand, since I’ve never been able to afford to live in a community with such restrictions (assuming that I’d want to). On the other hand, Willard “Mitt” Romney lives in a town (Belmont, Massachusetts) that is notorious for its resistance to all offensive incursions of modernity… they have successfully resisted not only McDonalds but Starbucks, cable television, and (from our experience driving through) post-1960s highway maintenance standards. But, as I’m sure Willard would tell us, the important difference is that we Americans do not permit mere government bureaucrats to impose their nit-picking “standards” upon us — we prefer to do our OWN freedom-inspired nit-picking, by gosh!

“Dear Lord Jesus I know I am a winger, and that my life is a constant stream of rank hypocrisy, naked greed, willful ignorance, incandescent hatred for people I’ve never met and whose actions have never effected me, lying about those with whom I disagree, and sexual proclivities that would make a porn star blush. I believe that you died for me on the cross, by which I mean “sure, whatever, just make with the forgiveness and don’t pay too much attention to my business dealings or the contents of the back of my wardrobe”. See you same time tomorrow, Amen.”

But, as I’m sure Willard would tell us, the important difference is that we Americans do not permit mere government bureaucrats to impose their nit-picking “standards” upon us — we prefer to do our OWN freedom-inspired nit-picking, by gosh!

Never buy anything that is governed by a Homeowners’ Association. It’s like having the legal destiny of your property determined by a herd of weasels on crack cocaine!

Sorry. That last comment somehow wound up in the wrong window.

i apologize for those of us who think that it’s cool to try to browbeat/shame/threaten others into saying magic words or converting or “getting saved” or whatever, or who have missed the entire point of the gospels altogether. we’re not all like this, i promise. i don’t believe in hell, don’t support war, think that social and economic inequality is a critical spiritual issue, have positively no patience whatsoever for homophobia, and i think we all were born just fine the first time around.

[De-snarking]
Sarah:
Don’t apologize for the Saul/Boogers of the Intertubes. Those of us who grew up in small towns and who had to go to Church every Sunday realize that he’s hardly a representative sample.

…Besides, I vaguely remember “Pastor Chuck” telling us that it’s a sin to speculate about the faith–or lack thereof–of others.

…aint it a shame you beat you wife on a Sunday, aint it a shame.

I did let Jesus into my heart. That’s why I am a liberal!

From the Gospel of Matthew..34″Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37″Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40″The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41″Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44″They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Gee, no mention of tax cuts for the rich, no gay bashing, no wars for profit, huh. Just a lot of stuff about helping those who need assistance….

and pie is nice…

Good lord. I was going to do a jews for jesus comment but I didn’t know it had been trolled out. Shit.

Once again, Anne Laurie slays. Great stuff.

Crap, Safari still had me as Pim’s Ghost. Oh well.

Bastion–ain’t it kind of funny that I was able to peg you as a Baptist right off? I was even going to ask if you were with an unaffiliated Baptist church, but I went to bed instead. You are going by the playbook. Are you one of my neighbors, actually? Because I hate to think that there are more of you out there. Cripes, there are. It’s a fucking underground coup taking place in the world of those who have separated from us “secular degenerate trash” (as the neighbors I ran off used to say).

Get your ass to the Catholic Answers site, Bastion. You obviously believe (like most fundies) that modern Catholic beliefs are still pre-Counter-Reformation, if you even believe that the Counter Reformation happened. I’ll even bet you think Luther didn’t believe in the veneration of Mary. Wrong again. The official Catholic position on works is that they are a necessary outgrowth of one’s belief. If they don’t happen, then you aren’t following something right, but they don’t buy you a ticket to heaven.

Hell no I won’t go to a local indie Baptist “church”! Not without a Crucifix and some Holy Water and pepper spray just in case! Those freaks are engaged in the cultural rape of several countries that are majority Catholic or Orthodox, neo-colonialist “church seed-planting” regarding people they refuse to recognize as Christians, and which I am fighting locally. The former Soviet countries have it bad enough without fundies there trying to turn them all into evangelical Baptists, or those “poor, ignorant Mexicans” as the church secretary put it. Honestly.

Bastion, the cruelest thing you evangelists can do is to engage in this destruction of cultural heritage and brainwashing which involves stripping people of their belief in Purgatory and prayers for the dead. It is CRUEL, and I know that your ‘church’ probably engages in it. Knock it off.

Pim, you’re in Kansas, right? Have any of the whackjob Church of Christ people there? We have tons here, and they make the Baptists look liberal. Not just the standard-issue ‘no smokin, drinkin or swearin’ stuff, but *no instrumental music* in church! Also, just in general, they are the most sectarian and self-righteous denomination I’ve ever been acquainted with. They tend to be relatively well-off, and if you forget it, they’ll quickly remind you. They’re a lot like Mormons but w/out that somewhat redeeming, ‘historical underdog’ cache. Or the cheerfulness.

Funny about the anti-Catholic stuff, there’s always been a lot of that around here, too. IMO, the absolute worst in that regard are the hardcore Pentecostals, who are, btw at once the most typically poor but also the most ‘show-biz’ of the local evangelicals. And I don’t just mean their services. Most people know of their de facto female dress code (which in my nasty moods I might describe as “trying to make the ladies look as homely as possible”), but all that forced modesty has an ostentatious counterpart among the males. If you see a guy in the grocery store (and you will) whose style and easy-sleazy demeanor reminds you of third-rate Wayne Newton impersonator, it’s certain he’ll be a Pentecostal — all the men look like caricatures of 1970’s televangelists. And they are the most tenacious proselytizers I’ve ever seen. They also, sadly, are subject to the most economic control by their pastors; I know of several who have to ask ‘permission’ before they or their family can make any substantive purchase, take on any new debt, etc. — gotta keep the tithes rollin’.

(BTW, all the above are descriptions of white congregations. *Black* Pentecostals I don’t know much about except that they are way more classy, seem far less pushy, and their church bands are the best I’ve ever heard bar none; if there were a congregation locally, I’d go to services in a heartbeat for just that [which reminds me to kick myself for not going to Al Green’s church when I lived in Memphis].)

HTML Mencken,

Don’t get me wrong. I wasn’t arguing that the Disciples of Christ are lefties like the UCC generally is, just that all my experiences with them and their own charter statements make them hardly fall into a Taliban-like category. My sister-in-law’s boyfriend argued his thesis in Nashville, hardly a northern liberal bastion and the seat of the church. Yes, they are much bigger down south, even bigger in southern Ohio than in northern Ohio where we live now, but I’ve rarely heard a Disciple even use the word “hell” much in a religious context.

My father-in-law is a Goldwater man going way back and he’s probably one of the most rightwing Disciples I’ve ever met and even he hardly counts as Talibanic.

But, as always, your mileage may vary.

Why is LAW so much more important to evangelicals than LOVE

The Bible’s definition of “love” is “doing what God wants”. Go ahead, look it up yourself.

For instance, a normal human hears “love your neighbor” and thinks “I guess I ought to bring Mr Jones a jar of preserves this weekend”. The Good Christian’s idea of “love your neighbor” is to make sure they don’t do anything untoward in the bedroom.

Don’t blame me — I voted for Barrabas.

I’m pretty sure ol’ Booger is Saul – the giveaway was the identical misspelling of truly as “truely”. It’s a tell, Saul.

Kiki, I love the “wingnut’s prayer”.

At one of our gated communities, a Latino family somehow managed to get a foot in the door as it were. They liked to have family get-togethers on the weekend. The charming neighbors of these folks began to complain about the “noise” and the “cars”. They actually tried to get this nice family tossed out of the neighborhood. Bear in mind, these homes are purchased, not rented. Still, run afoul of the neighborhood association, and they’ll do what they can to disenfranchise you. I despise the burbs.

My friend married a yuppie prick, from whome she recently got the inevitable divorce, and they purchased a condo in the burbs. They couldn’t have a pet that weighed more than fifteen pounds. She got a small dog, and would take it out in the morning to do its business. Her next door neighbor would come out and stand on the porch to make sure she picked up all her dog poo. He would assure her that he would turn her in if she did not get the poo picked up instantly. (I believe the fee was $50 for leaving a dog turd in the yard.) This same gentleman had hookers visiting a couple times a week. Nice guy. Classy.

They also, sadly, are subject to the most economic control by their pastors; I know of several who have to ask ‘permission’ before they or their family can make any substantive purchase, take on any new debt, etc. — gotta keep the tithes rollin’.

You are describing my childhood. The men of my congregation also had to call our pastor before disciplining their wives or children. Yeah, you read that right. We even had a private church-school behind the main building so the kids wouldn’t run off and get no fool ideas from outsiders.

HTML–sometimes, yeah. I’ve been in Kansas off and on since 90, and these freaks were not here before. BTW, they are using the term “Evangelical Free” on many of the churches of that type here now. If only the term meant what I wish it did. But yes, that and these “Independent Baptist” churches (read: we’re too radical to stay with the organizations). Lawrence is the last bit of sanity left, and that’s a tad ironic since Lawrence is completely nuts. It’s all relative, I guess, especially when the Phelps’ are just about 20 miles away.

But yes, these people are taking over previously very secular suburbs in which the mention of “my personal relationship with Jesus Christ” used to make people run screaming instead of bringing on any sense of “fellowship”. I mean, I do have “non-vampire” neighbors left who also run screaming, but generally in most cities in the MidWest urban revitalization is HUGE, and political affiliation is increasingly defined by which area one chooses if living in a basically white neighborhood. Fewer and fewer liberals choose the outer ring suburbs these days, while almost no conservatives (or at least Republicans) choose the older or early ring suburbs, now almost referred to as “in town”.

This is why I’m a reverse snowbird and spend much of the year down in Tampa with the rest of my family. Better to be an Azagthoth than tormented by these increasingly annoying dolts. Besides, at least in Tampa, it’s all already developed and I don’t have to watch fields I love being destroyed daily. No one here understands when I get upset over the destruction of the land. No one.

HTML, I love you man, and you’re right about many things, but let me say a couple of words in defense of my home church, the Church of Christ. (I no longer attend – for that matter, I no longer attend ANY church of any denomination – unless I’m visiting my folks, and I don’t like much of what it’s become, but I want to dispel a couple of things here.)

First – even within the CofC, there’s a surprising amount of divergent opinion. Yes, many of them are non-instrumental (though that by itself is not a marker of the most conservative branch – that would be the One Cuppers), and while I no longer agree with that interpretation (I feel it’s based more on class structure than anything theological or scriptural, and the scriptural explanation is ex post facto), I can at least understand it. And it’s not without some nice side effects – people with very little music education otherwise learn to read in four parts and sing harmony. As someone who teaches music theory, I can appreciate anything that makes voice-leading rules more intuitive.

Second – the more theologically liberal* divisions of the CofC tend to be more politically conservative (since their more liberal theology allows more religious interaction in the public sphere – this is Ken Starr’s branch), and politics has usually been unmentioned from the pulpit in the theologically conservative branch, since politics should not be tied up with salvation (“render unto Caesar” and all that). My grandfather preached in the CofC for most of his life, and also voted Democratic in every election – including McGovern in ’72 (he died in ’83, but he was liking Gary Hart at that point). His sister, my beloved Aunt Ginny, went to her grave in May 2001 proud of the fact that the last vote she cast was for Al Gore and against “that idiotic so-and-so Bush.” (There’s a reason she was my favorite aunt.) My cousin is a deacon in my home church, and a player in local Democratic poliltics (such as they are in southern Indiana).

It’s something of an irony, but the most conservative branch theologically is more diverse politically than you might think. I’m not saying you’ll see a groundswell of support for same-sex marriage or Dennis Kucinich, but there are many members of the Church of Christ who vote Democratic even at the Federal level. It’s no monolith.

Now Ken Starr’s branch, yeah. Those guys is nuts.

I have many disagreements with the theology of the conservative branch of the CofC, but I do feel honor-bound to point the preceding things out. HTML, keep fighting the good fights.

WF

*the differences in theology between the conservative and liberal wings of the CofC appear miniscule to outsiders, but on the inside they are huge and legion. It’s like a theory of Theological Relativity or something.

the more i learn about these hideous people the more terrified i become. it’s not as if they’re centralized in one remote spot; they could be living next door or on the next block.

Huh! Tell me about it.

the appalling thing about what I wrote

is that it matches what wingnuts say about blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, Muslims, homosexuals and lesbians, etc.

Lesley, there is one major difference between your comment and what the wingnuts say about “The Others”:

Your discrimination and/or fear is based on the person’s behavior. I think this is the logical and acceptable basis for reacting to other people.

If someone goes around bragging about shooting stray cats or dogs, being afraid of that person is the “correct” response: when you consider it’s not that far a jump to shooting people or wonder what happens to any stray bullets, it’s pretty clear that this person represents a real, physical danger to the people around him. (If your belief system condemns cruelty to animals as wrong, then loathing him is also appropriate.)

(the rest of this waaaay long comment has been moved to my own blog; link in name)

[…] My very, very long response to a comment over at Sadly, No!: […]

Another Kansan–I second Lex. Around KC, the vast majority of the new churches are i) gigantic and ii) not affiliated with the major sects. They’re mostly fixated on christ–I guess the big sky daddy is too judgmental or something–and on letting you know christ is just their bestest buddy. He seems kinda forgetful, tho–most of the yahoos, if in a bunch, can’t walk across the floor without letting god know; they’re awfully nervous. “Here I go, god, walkin’ across the room now god, praisin’ you, sweet jeebus, blah blah.” Lots of arm waving and praising loudly. It’s friggin’ awful.

I did let Jesus into my heart. That’s why I am a liberal!

Woodrow fan: Now that’s a bumper sticker I’d love to have.

All you have to do to avoid Hell is ask Jesus to give you eternal life and truely mean it. Once you are saved you can never lose your salvstion.

OK. Hey, Jesus, how about some eternal life? I’d really appreciate it, you know, because there’s lots of stuff I’d like to see and do. Thanks, Big J.

There you go. I asked Jesus for eternal life, and I really meant it. I guess I’m saved now, right? And I can never be unsaved now?

Sweet. Now I can go back to being a culturally Jewish atheist and snarking on wingnuts and god-botherers, and AIN’T NOTHIN’ CAN TOUCH ME, BABY!

Bastion… You really don’t seem to actually understand theology. You just sound like you’re parroting things mommy and daddy told you when you were little. The phrase ‘Accept jesus as your lord and personal saviour’ does not mean that you get an automatic pass into heaven. ‘Accepting Jrsus Christ’ means living by a code, asking for forgiveness when you sin and actually meaning it. It is not meant to be a mechanism by which you become part of Elohim itself, it does not make you a divine instrument.

Dogma does not state that ‘good acts are not required to enter into heaven’. It states that you can not reach heaven by way of good acts alone. While I can see how an arrogant and wicked man such as yourself would fail to see the difference, there is a massive one. Clearly, you do not care about committing good acts yourself. That in itself is a sin, and I do not believe you have or will ever ask for forgiveness for that sin honestly. You don’t believe you’ve done something wrong, so you don’t really believe you need forgiveness. Your arrogance in claiming to know the mind of God is also a sin. You do not know who goes to hell and who does not, but the surest way to earn yourself a place in there is to pretend that you do.

Dear Bastion Booger,

Now Fuck off…in my name.

I am a transplant in Seattle, because going to school with the Phelps kids, and even being taught by an actual Phelps, convinced me that Topeka was a non-starter. Oh, and a majority of the people you see in the grocery stores are overweight.

Saul is so lame. Bastion Booger? Lamer. Even the name is lame. Lame.Lame.Lame.

And that is an affront to all who have truncated mobility, let me tell you.

Can’t believe I didn’t say it before – but what a fun video game “Redneck Rampage” was. Nice snag.

Booger,

Any site that includes the morons at AnswersinGenesis as a “partner” clearly is more full of shit than my son’s diaper.

OOO!

They’re…partners. HAHAHAHAHA. I wonder who’s the bitch 😀

Yeah, Booger is lame, but he’s the same as my fucking neighbors. Well, the ones who have picnics and crap when I’m trying to garden to Patti Smith.

Les–I know! I even rented “Jesus Camp” on a bet with some sane neighbors that the “kiefer Sutherland vampire” family would be in it, but I think they went to “Pharisee Camp” instead. Les, where I live, I moved away for 5 years and then moved back to the same neighborhood. Now my favorite field is destroyed for a retirement community and there are about 5 mega-churches within a 5 mile radius. And no one’s buying houses, otherwise I WOULD move closer in. As it is, I just have to refugee most of the time to Tampa, which seems like relative sanity compared to this.

Crap, even the old Presbyterian church down the street is now a “Bible Church”!! Check out “Mardel” bookstore if you get a chance. I think it’s a big chain, national I think. These people are planting the seeds.

OK sorry, one of them is mowing outside and just seeing his ass is getting me riled up. You guys are going to turn me back into a blogger, and I’d sworn off of it. Oh well, satirical tales of the worst of the lot of them won’t hurt. Everyone here thinks I’m going to hell anyway. Maybe even in a handbasket, my preferred method.

the plain truth of the Bible so that you can grow in Christ.

Eww, that sounds nasty.

Her next door neighbor would come out and stand on the porch to make sure she picked up all her dog poo. He would assure her that he would turn her in if she did not get the poo picked up instantly. (I believe the fee was $50 for leaving a dog turd in the yard.) This same gentleman had hookers visiting a couple times a week. Nice guy. Classy.

Well, Candy, I’m sure if the hookers had crapped in his yard he would have picked it up *instantly*. Hmm… maybe that’s why David Vitter was into diapers… perhaps his hookers lived in a neighborhood with a really strict Homeowners Association!

I entirely agree that GOD IS ALWAYS CAPITALIZED PEOPLE, in the sense that gods, whether this Yahweh/Yeshua/Holy Spirit threesome, or Vishnu, Zeus, Thor, or even the not-god Gautama, are always based on HUMAN BEINGS WRIT LARGE. You’d think people would have got past these anthropomorphic sky beings, but you would be wrong.

Lex says:

“Everyone here thinks I’m going to hell anyway. Maybe even in a handbasket, my preferred method.”

Well duh, if there’s a handbasket to ride in, why walk?

Megachurches, shmegachurches. You ain’t had no churchin’ til you’ve sat in with a good old-fashioned snake-handling congregation. You wanna talk about some scary folk. They make your garden-variety evangelicals look like intellectuals.

OneMan–I wasn’t sure if it was a choice between the handbasket or being thrown straight down. But shit, if it’s walking I’ll just be my normal ODD self and do the opposite. Of course throwing Purgatory out the window, as well as a merciful God, that just really leaves most of us screwed.

At least they’re honest though. They’re throwing a party at God’s place and only their friends are invited.

I entirely agree that GOD IS ALWAYS CAPITALIZED PEOPLE…

Good point, Invigilator, but I’m sticking with my reading of “god has always capitalized people.”

Surely you’ve heard of angel investors?

They’re throwing a party at God’s place and only their friends are invited.

And yet we stinky libruls refuse to greet this snub with the proper combination of envy and begging their forgiveness! How are the God People going to enjoy their Very Exclusive Party without the heady sight of all our non-Godly noses pressed to the glass?

That’s the sure sign of a “fun” party, when the most enjoyable part is knowing that your enemies weren’t invited, right? (/snark)

“Go to Hell in a Handbasket” was always my favourite roller-coaster ride at Inferno-World.

thanks, ruthie. i appreciate it.

Anne–but then I did them one better, and ended up becoming a Christian, and now I’m wondering who the heck these people are kicking me out of this little club they’ve decided on. I’ve tried telling them to look into this Jesus guy, and they seriously respond by quoting some rule from the Book of Romans. I steer clear, because when I don’t I end up really offending them, which really doesn’t bother me.

My Mom did them one better though (she’s a Catholic, too). With the bitching about gay marriage, my Mom told these fundies here that Jesus spoke about monogamy, love, and how people should be married, but never condemned homosexuality, therefore he was pro-gay marriage. They don’t bother her either, she moved back out of Kansas for a reason. But I liked her retwisting of one of their idiotic statements to come up with that one.

One of the tenets of the Disciples church is tolerance. So you can end up with with one Disciples congregation that’s a classic university-campus left-wing-looney group that makes everything that Rush says about Lieberals look true, and not 5 miles away you have another Disciples congregation that’s your classic anti-gay, anti-alcohol, upwardly-mobile conservative African-American church.

Which nicely illustrates the point of why religious folks should fanatically support separation of church and state – because the right-wing fundies don’t just want to make American a “Christian” nation, they want to make it *their* kind of a Christian nation, which goes against a lot of peoples’ good Christian beliefs. (Imagine the fundies distress if the liberal wing of the UCC-Disciples-Unitarians-Quakers imposed *their* version of Christianity on the Baptists!)

Imagine the fundies [sic] distress if the liberal wing of the UCC-Disciples-Unitarians-Quakers imposed *their* version of Christianity on the Baptists!

It’d serve their asses right. I don’t see how this could possibly be a bad thing, as far as religious imposition is concerned.