Sweet Jesus, do I hate Victor Davis Hanson
Why do people like this hold vast influence over American foreign policy? Can someone please explain it to me?
Is Sky Falling on America?
By Victor Davis Hanson
The suicide-murders and roadside bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan sicken Americans. Soon-to-be nuclear Iran seems loonier than nuclear North Korea. American debt keeps piling up in China and Japan. And we think of angry Venezuela, the Middle East and Russia every time we fill up – if we can afford to fill up.
Then listen to Al Gore on global warming. Or hear Jimmy Carter on the current president. The common denominator is American “decline.”
Well, duh. 72 percent of Americans think the country is on the wrong track. While the Republicans deserve most of the blame for this, I’ll be the first to acknowledge that the Democrats have done jack-shit to make things better. The only difference is that they seem to send Bush mean letters before they rubberstamp his war policies.
Books by liberals assure us that our “empire” is kaput. Brace for the inevitable fate of Rome. Conservatives are just as glum. For them, we are also Romans – but the more decadent variety, eaten away from the inside.
Here’s a question, Vic- why do we want to be an empire in the first place? Empires are all about subjugating other people, stealing natural resources from other countries, and generally acting like bullying creeps. Why, why, why is this something we want to take part in?
In response, many bored Americans turn instead to the la-la land of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
Many people are horrifically stupid, yes, I agree. But I’d rather they plug themselves in to our vacuous and valueless popular culture than vote for Bush. A lot less people will die that way.
Hey, y’know what? We’ve gotten four whole paragraphs into this column, and I haven’t spotted one World War II analogy yet! Not one! Maybe Vic is turning over a new leaf, or maybe he’s decided to look for some new metaphors tha…
Yet American Cassandras are old stuff. Grim Charles Lindberg in the late 1930s lectured a Depression-era America that Hitler’s new order in Germany could only be appeased, never opposed.
Oop. Oh well.
It should be noted that:
a.) You spelled “Lindbergh” wrong.
b.) Lindbergh was a conservative who had sympathies with hardcore nationalist ideologies, while modern liberals don’t.
c.) After Saddam was ousted from Kuwait in the ’90s, he never invaded another country again; not exactly the stuff Hitlers are made of. Iran hasn’t exactly been bowling over Poland and France either, y’know.
d.) The WWII analogies are tired and boring. Look for some new ones. May I suggest my own brilliant essays on the Left’s failure to learn the lessons of Cola Wars and the Punic Wars?
After World War II, it wasn’t long before the Soviet Union ended our short-lived status as sole nuclear superpower. And when Eastern Europe and China were lost to communism, it was proof, for many, that democratic capitalism was passé. “We will bury you,” Nikita Khrushchev promised us.
After the collapse of the Soviet Empire in 1991, America proclaimed itself at the “end of history” – meaning that the spread of our style of democratic capitalism was now inevitable. Now a mere 16 years later, some are just as sure we approach our own end.
That’s pretty much the opposite of truth, Vic. We actually want to live in a country that gives prisoners the right to habeas corpus, that doesn’t torture people, and that doesn’t invade countries for no good reason. This isn’t destroying American ideals; it’s preserving them.
But our rivals are weaker and America is far stronger than many think.
Take oil. With oil prices at nearly $70 a barrel, Vladimir Putin, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Hugo Chavez seem invincible as they rally anti-American feeling.
But if we find alternate energy sources, or reduce slightly our oil hunger, we can defang all three rather quickly. None of their countries have a middle class or a culture of entrepreneurship to discover and disseminate new knowledge.
Holy shit, Vic! You just had a kernel of an OK (albeit obvious) idea! Let’s kick our oil addiction! That makes more sense than invading and occupying major oil-producing countries, no?
Russia and Europe are shrinking. China is an aging nation of only children. The only thing the hard-working Chinese fear more than their bankrupt communist dictatorship is getting rid of it. True, the economies of China and India have made amazing progress. But both have rocky rendezvous ahead with all the social and cultural problems that we long ago addressed in the 20th century.
I.e., their people will start demanding economic equality, which will make their economies vastly fairer than ours is gonna be.
And European elites can’t blame their problems – a bullying Russia, Islamic terrorists, unassimilated minorities and high unemployment – all on George Bush’s swagger and accent. The recent elections of Angela Merkel in Germany and Nicolas Sarkozy in France suggest that Europe’s cheap anti-Americanism may be ending, and that our practices of more open markets, lower taxes and less state control are preferrable to the European status quo.
See, this is what I don’t get about neocons like Hanson. They argue that the government shouldn’t interfere with the domestic economy to provide its citizens with vital social services. They basically think that everyone’s on their own, that they don’t deserve any help, that poor people deserve to be where they are out of laziness. This attitude, while totally wrong, would at least be somewhat logical if they took the same approach toward people in third-world countries. But those people, they say, are simply too stupid and backward to be left alone; rather, they must be changed by American force and be made into a collection of Mini-Me, Go-U-S-and-A-Sexy-Time colonies. I don’t understand how you can believe two completely contradictory things like that (and I don’t think Vic knows either, frankly; it would go a long way toward explaining why we so completely bollicksed Iraq up).
In truth, a never-stronger America is being tested as never before.
But wait. I just thought you called all our enemies a pack of wimps and Eurosissies. What’s going on here?
The world is watching whether we win or lose in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Middle East is either going to reform or remain an oil-rich tribal mess that endangers the entire world.
A better way to assess our chances at maintaining our preeminence is simply to ask the same questions that are the historical barometers of our nation’s success or failure: Does any nation have a constitution comparable to ours?
Yes. Many of them, in fact.
Does merit – or religion, tribe or class – mostly gauge success or failure in America?
Class does. Upward class mobility has been declining for years now, Vic. Not that you’d notice, since you’re too busy playing with your Greeks-v.s.-Trojans Model War Kit.
What nation is as free, stable and transparent as the U.S.?
Most of the industrialized ones. Our political elites have been failing us for the past six-plus years, and nobody is doing anything about it.
Try becoming a fully accepted citizen of China or Japan if you were not born Chinese or Japanese. Try running for national office in India from the lower caste.
Hey, when was the last time we had a poor person run for president? Hell, when was the last time we had a poor person- and by poor, I don’t mean they grew up poor, I mean they’re currently poor- run for Congress?
Try writing a critical op-ed in Russia or hiring a brilliant female to run a mosque, university or hospital in most of the Middle East. Ask where MRI scans, Wal-Mart, iPods, the Internet or F-18s came from.
Yeah, I don’t know where we’d be without Wal-Mart and F-18s. And the Internet is kewl, but everyone knows Al Gore invented it. So neener, neener, neener.
In the last 60 years, we have been warned in succession that new paradigms in racially pure Germany, the Soviet workers’ paradise, Japan Inc. and now 24/7 China all were about to displace the United States. None did. All have had relative moments of amazing success – but in the end none proved as resilient, flexible and adaptable as America.
That brings us to the United States’ greatest strength: radical self-critique. We Americans are worrywarts, always believing we’re on the verge of extinction. And so, to “renew,” “reinvent” or “save” America, we whip ourselves up about “wars” on poverty, drugs and cancer; space “races;” missile “gaps;” literacy “crusades;” and “campaigns” against litter, waste and smoking.
In other words, we nail-biters have always been paranoid that we must change and improve in order to survive. And thus we usually do – just in time.
Maybe the problem is that we give too much of a shit about being better than everyone? Maybe we can, like, learn from other peoples’ ideas instead of being imperial dumbasses? Have you learned one goddamn thing from the disastrous Iraq war?
Jesus Christ. I don’t care who the Democrats nominate in ’08, I’m supporting them wholeheartedly. Anything to stop people like Vic from having influence over our foreign policy.
Shorter VDH: It’s good for Americans to worry and fret. The Bush Administration has given us a lot to worry and fret about. Ergo, Bush is good for America.
So, wait, now American self-critique is a good thing? I thought it was a treasonous blame-America-first librul heresy?
After the collapse of the Soviet Empire in 1991, America proclaimed itself at the “end of history�…
You learn something new every day. Today I learned Francis Fukuyama is America.
Ah, yes, another fine performance by the VD man.
Among the hundreds of jackass wingnut commentators cluttering up the landscape, Hanson proudly stands out by combining pathetically inflated claims of historical expertise with an irrepressible need to show that he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about. One of the greats.
This is one demn fine piece of frothing.
“But both have rocky rendezvous ahead with all the social and cultural problems that we long ago addressed in the 20th century.”
…in spite of the violent, and often criminal, opposition of people exactly like me and those whom I defend.
“We Americans are worrywarts, always believing we’re on the verge of extinction. ”
…except when Saint Reagan proclaimed Morning in America.
“In other words, we nail-biters have always been paranoid that we must change and improve in order to survive. And thus we usually do – just in time.”
…and always, always at the behest of and thanks to and with the valiant efforts of the Left. Which people like me and the lying, greedy assholes I promote and defend always, always strive to thwart, prevent, and undermine.
Jesus Christ on a Segway, is this clown really that oblivious of what he’s so triumphantly and vaingloriously quacking?
We might not know the exact day Victor Davis Hanson, but we know what day he’ll never live beyond.
Either by heart attack induced by insult to his powerful sense of national chauvanism or by the sudden gripping fear that the Yellow Horde is about to march down Main Street U.S.A., the day the Chinese economy becomes the largest in the world is a day beyond which we won’t have VDH to kick around anymore.
“Conservatives are just as glum. For them, we are also Romans – but the more decadent variety, eaten away from the inside.”
Yep, there sure is a lot of being eaten away from the inside going on these days. You might start to think that these terrorist termites are even more dangerous to our freedoms than the terrorists in Iraq. We might even want to think about bringing some units home to round up some of those who eat us from within.
Get the showers ready, Dirty Hippies comin’!
Ok, I know this whole thing is one long piece of contradictory, wingnuttian drivel, but I need to stop, go back and ask one little nitpicky question.
China is an aging nation of only children
What the FUCK?
Does this mean ANYTHING? How can a nation of only children be an aging nation. Did he have a certain word count for this assignment so he just sticks random words in there, figuring nobody reads his crap anyway?
I don’t blame the War Nerd for burning down his grapes…
mikey
Whoa. Instant auto-preview. Sadly, No takes the technology lead!!
Does this mean ANYTHING? How can a nation of only children be an aging nation.
I think by “only children” he means they didn’t have any siblings, cause of the one child policy. What bearing he thinks this has on when they will leave the US in their economic dust I know not.
Brad, I’ve long come to the conclusion that the Beltway Aristocracy simply does not, under any circumstances, want to hear anything but their own judgements on anything. What VDH does is simply reinforce the Beltway’s perception that a) Nothing is wrong and b) America (and by America they are really thinking about themselves) will always be number-one-supremo regardless of what it does (they do).
It is a recipe for disaster but if you tell them that, well, you are shrill.
Mikey,
I think this is a critique of China’s one child policy. But it reads hilarious. I had to re-read it too. And I think the analysis is wrong. Everybody knows that China is a young country of only the elderly.
Ahh, I see. Only children. Gawd, I hope it’s just a very poorly phrased statement, ’cause if I’m dumber than VDH, I’m gonna need a plastic helmet and a fulltime caretaker…
mikey
I think by “only children� he means they didn’t have any siblings, cause of the one child policy. What bearing he thinks this has on when they will leave the US in their economic dust I know not.
Same here. That part about China gave me a chuckle. We must have stumbled upon a wingnut code-term or serious issue that we haven’t decoded yet. Maybe the beloved Neocon pillars of nepotism and cronyism can’t flourish in a country of “only children”?
Wow. After months of total obscurity, Preview Button of Team Sadly, No! suddenly reemerges with lightning speed. I hope someone got a urine sample.
George Santayana never met Victor Davis Hansen. If he had, he would have known there are worse things than learning nothing from history. If you remember nothing about history, you at least have a chance you’ll avoid repeating some previous fuckup by sheer accident. When you willfully learn exactly the wrong thing, you are guaranteed to fuck up over and over again.
Had the same thoughts as everyone else here upon reading the imbecilic construction “aging country of only children.” In order:
1. Can this possibly be true?
2. Wait, how can it be aging if they’re all children?
3. Oh, I bet he means they’re all “only children.”
4. But…what would it matter if they’re a whole country of people without siblings for the purposes of this argument?
5. Oh, yeah, Victor Davis Hanson’s an idiot. It doesn’t mean anything!
Thanks everyone for clearing up the “aging nation of only children” part. Now onto the bonus round!
In the last 60 years, we have been warned in succession that new paradigms in racially pure Germany, the Soviet workers’ paradise, Japan Inc. and now 24/7 China all were about to displace the United States.
What the hell is 24/7 China? Does it mean that China is open all the time? That Hanson is tired of hearing about China 24/7? Has China replaced the one child policy with a new 24/7 policy, the details of which haven’t been worked out yet?
We are in desperate need for translators of Hansonese.
Glad to learn you either changed your mind or weren’t serious yesterday about dusting off your Nader pin for ’08, Bradrocket. You had me worried there. And on the subject of another very consequential vote I’m alarmed to report that Pharyngula has pulled ahead of teh Sadly in the Silk Pajama election. Time to rouse that team of lawyers you’ve got on retainer.
China is an aging nation of only children.
WTFery that does even mean?
[…] comment on every problem in a recent Victor Hanson piece. Hanson […]
Hell, when was the last time we had a poor person- and by poor, I don’t mean they grew up poor, I mean they’re currently poor- run for Congress?
Well, Kucinich had to sleep in his car on the campaign trail.
He’s the exception that proves the rule.
as i’ve said before, i feel about as warm toward vdh as the romans did toward the numidians right around 219 bc. just sayin’.
also nice preview! woo!
and mikey, thanks for tackling the aging only children problem. that was confusing the hell out of me, but apparently you get up earlier than i do. right on, dude.
mikey, I’d go with the plastic helmet as a precaution. Works for me.
Jesus Christ, its like a fucking kaleidescope of categorization error, lazy thinking, and outright dishonesty.
The US has influence in the world directly proportional to its ability to get other countries to go along with ideas that serve its material interest. When the government acts like a tequilla-drunk redneck with a rocket launcher we make harder for other governments to play along– even when the deal is in their own county’s interest, too– without paying a domestic political price. Just ask Tony Blair.
Of course in the world of the Tribune of Fresno such diplomatic considerations never enter the equation. Fear and force are the only source of legitimacy he can imagine and if the US isn’t cockslapping anyone who dares to look at it sideways then the wogs might get the wrong idea about who’s running things. Its fucking pathetic.
I bet my local newspaper published this stupid, bigoted, non-internally-consistent, piece of cut-rate propaganda, too. Maybe I’ll write a letter and ask them why they publish this bullshit artist.
Uh, Vic?
“Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) leader Mayawati addresses a press conference after her party’s victory in the Uttar Pradesh state elections, in Lucknow, India, Friday, May 11, 2007. Mayawati, a fiery 51-year-old woman and India’s most powerful low-caste politician, was swept into power Friday in the country’s largest state and is set to become the chief minister of Uttar Pradesh, a vast, poor state that encompasses more than 180 million people and often sets the political agenda for the rest of the country. (AP Photo/Ajay Kumar Singh)”
Oh, and…
“By any standards, K. R. Narayanan’s journey, from Dalit or “untouchable” low-caste beginnings – often going hungry as a child and borrowing slippers to walk the long distances to school and college – to becoming India’s President and First Citizen in the late 1990s, was remarkable. Through tenacity, brilliance and a quiet but determined spirit, the unassuming Narayanan combated centuries of discrimination against India’s untouchables and proved to the world as a scholar, diplomat, federal minister and eventually President that he was no less a human being for being born a socially handicapped Dalit.”
“What nation is as free, stable and transparent as the U.S.?”
Well, thanks for playing, Victor. It’s nice to know that major respected members of the Serious Foreign Policy Club fail to have the same world knowledge as, say, the Junior World Encyclopedia.
As I have expressed before, each time someone wishes to infer equality between the two majority parties in the United States.
There is a reason this man is well-insulated in the embrace of the GOP, and not the Democratic Party.
I’ve been reading your stuff for awhile and I just wanted to tell you guys to keep it up. I used to be pretty apolitical (I couldn’t stand the talking heads). Eventually I started reading political blogs, both right and left, and I have to say, as someone who came into this without many pre-conceptions and gave each side a chance that you guys are totally right when you say that the wingers are angry, overly impressed with there own thoughts, humorless, and generally clueless. There could never be a blog like this one for the right. There’s just no comparison. Keep up the pressure! They’ve got nothin’ to fight with.
i had no idea that francis fukuyama was a synecdoche for America. huh. explains a lot.
this sort of douchebaggery (an idea expressed by someone on my side is in fact the defining idea of history) is such shitty history, such patently stupid debate tactics, as to make one wnoder if VDH got his degree at the U. of online Millography. seriously. I thought america proclaimed this the “era of the peace dividend.” so that’s what happened. or maybe some people thought one thing, some thought another, and to conflate either with world-sweeping analysis is to be an asshat wearing another asshat as a hat. on its ass.
Not to inject a note of pessimism here, but the destruction that we currently face is from within. And, with public education essentially in the hands of the left, we are losing critical mass in every generation.
BURN All THE SCHOOLS! NOW!
But after watching the situation here for over 50 years and knowing a little history, I for one feel that we are looking at an armed revolution. The country is divided like never before. The differences can not be reconciled. We have zero leadership. If I could, I would get my state to succeed as it did before. I can now understand why my ancestors fought for a free society under the CSA.
AND WAVE A CONFEDERATE FLAG WHILE YOU’RE BURNING THE SCHOOLS!
We just need to wake up to the fact that there are significant number of people in this country who do not believe in the Constitution, specifically many Members of Congress, and then throw them out.
Somehow we need to find a real leader, an inspirer, a man or women we can believe in. Not some robotic, schooled excuse of a politician.
And even if you don’t believe the human race is behind global warming (I don’t) imagine the excitement of watching Iran, Venezuela and other brutal regimes melting down as we use less and less of their one and only product – oil.
Save gas. Save energy. Not for global warming. Not to save money. But to kick the viscious, murdering scum of the world in the teeth!
WE NEED A POWERFUL, INSPIRING LEADER TO SMASH OUR ENEMIES, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC! AND NOT A POLITICIAN! THERE’LL BE NO MORE COMPROMISES!
Lovely people. Lovely attitudes. Lovely spellers, too.
From poster @ Town Hall:
And even if you don’t believe the human race is behind global warming (I don’t) imagine the excitement of watching Iran, Venezuela and other brutal regimes melting down as we use less and less of their one and only product – oil.
Save gas. Save energy. Not for global warming. Not to save money. But to kick the viscious, murdering scum of the world in the teeth!
I’m not so sure Baby Jeebus loves America as much as some people think. I mean, why’d He put all our oil under the countries of “viscious, murdering scum of the world?”
The US has influence in the world directly proportional to its ability to get other countries to go along with ideas that serve its material interest.
Indeed. And since dreams of empire are predicated on the view that international interaction is a zero-sum game, the rest of the world doesn’t play along when the US acts as an empire.
“What nation is as free, stable and transparent as the U.S.?�
Say, tell us about the American Civil War, the LA riots and Gore vs Bush again…
Was Victor Davis the Hanson brother who looked like a girl?
I’d like to believe that any American high-school student who submitted such a stupid piece of garbage for his homework assignment in history class would immediately see it get slapped with a big, red ‘F’. Maybe he’d then get a failing grade in current events, too, just for good measure:
“What nation is as free, stable and transparent as the U.S.?”
Hey, Vic, who decided to fire those eight U.S. Attorneys? We’ve had days and days and days of Congressional hearings on it, so we simply must know that answer, here in our Land of Transparently Free government. What has happened in Gitmo, or those Eastern European camps we’ve been operating? Where went our 8.8 BILLION DOLLARS, for which former Proconsul Bremer cannot account? What surveillance program was so objectionable that even JOHN ASHCROFT refused to approve it? Did President Bush send Mr. Gonzales to Mr. Ashcroft’s hospital bed? Tell me the answers, since you live in such a transparent country! I wish I lived in one!
Vic, next time you write a sneering denunciation of your fellow Americans for being unrealistically negative, you might want to get a fact right, or, failing that, at least avoid sounding like the least informed cheerleader in all of jingoistic history.
Ask where MRI scans… came from.
So I asked. Turns out that the 2003 Nobel judges decided to share the credit between Paul Lauterbur (of Urbana, Illinois) and Peter Mansfield (Nottingham, England).
That brings us to the United States’ greatest strength: radical self-critique.
Jeebus. Really? And here I was thinking that the US was full of complacent pundits treating each others’ self-congratulatory drivel as though it were real history or summat.
I mean, the people I hang out with think that Joy Division is the coolest band that ever was, and that Blakes 7 is the coolest scifi series that ever was, despite both hailing from the 80s.
So since we’re of one mind on these issues, and we don’t allow contradictory opinions to darken our glorious horizon of 80s-ness, then it’s fair to say that Australia is steeped in 80s English culture and the population is unanimous in their desire to see Avon and Servalan get it on.
Oh, an Australian invented the photocopier. For what it’s worth. At the government defense research establishment. Our government didn’t want to fund its development: after all, who’d want such a silly thing? We’re perfectly happy with roneos.
And extra big happy smiles to the awesome Instant Preview feature. I’m so excited, I think I’ll need a nap.
Quick! I need something to type so I can preview it!
Try running for national office in India from the lower caste.
You mean you can’t run for the national office in India if you are a lower caste?
That’d be news to the 10th President, K. R. Narayanan, who is a Dalit, and to the 11th President, who is a Muslim. In addition,
1. India had a woman Prime Minister way back in 1967
2. The chief minister of the largest Indian state is a lower caste woman
3. In the south the “Dalit” parties have held power for 35 out 60 years since India’s independence
4. The leader of the ruling party (and the leader of the lower and more powerful house in Indian parliament) is a woman of Italian origin.
Americans like Hanson need to STFU until americans elect either Obama or Hillary as President. They don’t get to lecture Indians or comment upon so called political inequality in India.
And there’s gotta be more. Let’s see, there’s Benazir Bhutto, elected PM of that noted hotbed of gender tolerance, Pakistan, not once, but twice. Oh, and Hannah Ashrawi, an eloquent and courageous voice of the Palestinians. Oh, and I know it’s all muslim enemies, all the time, but there oughta be some mention of the hard as nails Michelle Bachelet, President of Chile, self described agnostic and survivor of the Pinochet crimes. Bet I could find a bunch more, but those happen to be favorites of mine…
mikey
Oh, an Australian invented the photocopier.
I am not sure whether that is something to be proud of…
Getting back to V. D. ‘Synecdouche’ Hanson and his attempt to plant the US flag on the territory of MRI scanning, but if IIRC, the first clinically-useful MRI scans came from the University of Aberdeen. The first scanners in clinical use came from EMI and Toshiba. Am I boring you yet?
I am so MRI bored that my nails are perfect.
Oh, well played sir.
Is VDH the drunk and angry Brit?
And as we all know, the World Wide Web, without which the Internet would be useless to gasdouches like Hanson, was created by a Brit. In France. (Or maybe Tim Berners-Lee was on the Swiss side of CERN at the precise moment of creation… but anyway he was somewhere in Yurp.)
“The world is watching whether we win or lose in Iraq and Afghanistan . . .”
. . . with a mixture of horror and bemusement, in light of the fact that the perpetrators of 9/11 are in Pakistan.
Up at 6, breakfast by 7, back in bed by 7:30
Lovin’ teh preview
Up at 6, breakfast by 7, back in bed by 7:30
Waitaminute here, Weiku. This is how you do jail. At least the early part of the day. Speaking from experience?
mikey
The experience from which I speak, sirrah, was serving as a hunting guide with Messrs. Chapman, Cleese, Idle, Palin, et al. The deepest part of Africa, indeed; and the same expedition on which we discovered the Batsmen of the Kalahari, I believe.
you guys are totally right when you say that the wingers are angry, overly impressed with there own thoughts, humorless, and generally clueless. There could never be a blog like this one for the right. There’s just no comparison. Keep up the pressure! They’ve got nothin’ to fight with.
Thanks, Gundamhead.
Allow me to further explain VDH’s “aging country of only children” bit. In China, the elderly are traditionally cared for by their sons. Daughters get married-off, and have little to do with the well-being of their parents. With the implementation of the one-child policy, suddenly, parents of a daughter were well and truly fucked. People began, in alarmingly large numbers, to kill any female infants the wife bore, until they wound up with a son. This practice became so widespread that there is presently a shortage of marriage-aged women in the country, and the rivalries between men for them can become violent, or even deadly.
Well, it’s off to see Pirates 3 for me. And tomorrow, it’s more IML. This is a busy, busy weekend for me–I haven’t even had the chance to watch the season finale of “Lost” yet, and I probably won’t get to until next week some time. Yo-ho!
To add to that, Marq, they’ve started raids across the border into Korea, and nasty little scams are cropping up in the big cities. Some dude will advertise a job, which the poor girls who’ve just come from the country will answer (they’ve come from the country because they’re so poor, and because they’re girls ie unvalued, and because they want to be not poor).
Before Tinkerbell’s Little Bell has time to dingle, they’ve been snatched to the farthest wilds of rural China, to be bride/slave to some toothless doofus with 3 acres and a goat.
And when I say ‘slave’, I mean really. As in ankle cuff and chain, in some instances.
Is VDH the drunk and angry Brit?
Are you thinking of Chris Hitchens?
Books by liberals assure us that our “empireâ€? is kaput. Brace for the inevitable fate of Rome. Conservatives are just as glum.[…]
In response, many bored Americans turn instead to the la-la land of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
“Comparisons between the America and the declining Roman Empire are vastly overblown, but fortunately the American public are too distracted by bread-and-circuses to give them any heed.”
You have to admire the gall of a man who is willing to stand there with his bare face hanging out, and make that argument.
Hansen’s piece is just more straw man drivel. The only people saying “America is on the decline” is the neocons wailing because we haven’t yet rained nukes on Teheran. LIbs don’t say America is declining; they say we’ve pissed off the rest of the world enough so that they turn against us every endeavor–ask Wolfie how many countries sprang to his defense.
“Comparisons between the America and the declining Roman Empire are vastly overblown, but fortunately the American public are too distracted by bread-and-circuses to give them any heed.�
Initially I was posting this comment with a bunch of spit all over it from a giggle-snort gone wrong, but preview cleaned that up nicely.
Nothing changes a tune from looney like a day in some reality shoes.
Throw a soldier’s uniform on the man and give him a day in Iraq. An afternoon should do it.
Thanks, Simba, yer right. I got my nutjobs mixed up for a minute.
Is VDH the drunk and angry Brit?
No, Clap Hanson is the man who thinks he’s living in fifth-century Athens.
herr MD
“synecdouche”
genius fucking christ on a string is that…something. brilliant, possibly.
The lighting on your pic of the great Victor Davis Hanson is washed out, making your image look ‘shopped. Here, I fixed it for you. Feel free to use it! The trick is to press [ctrl]-L (levels) and move that middle bar around.
Gavin, why are you calling yourself “The Hon. Dr. St. Rev. Bradley S. Rocket, Esq, PhD, MD” now?
The famous Khrushchev line meant “we will outlive you”, not “we will kill you”. The Soviets’ grand theory held that capitalism would inevitably destroy itself, and therefore an ultimate military showdown would not be necessary.
Oh, and iPods come from China. Says so right on the back of each one.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Owmygahdw!!!
The U.S.’s greatest strength is more like radical self-delusion.
Speaking of Kevin: Dude, seriously, why aren’t you in Iraq or Afghanistan? They could really use a true believer like you right about now; and a career in the army would have to be a step up from mowing lawns for a living.
The only question I’d ask about Brad’s wonderful piece is why would electing a Democrat be a magic protection against having idiots like this near our foreign policy? If they cannot stand up to a twenty-eight percenter, what makes you think they’d be able to avoid crapping their pants the first time some neocon thinktank sends them a policy paper promises a plague of locusts if we don’t bomb Malawi or something?
For my part, I’m busy figuring out who can play VDH in the movie version. I’ve got it down to Nick Nolte, Craig T. Nelson, and the guy who played Les Nessman on WKRP in Cincinnati.
OK, I confess. I’m only submitting this comment because I wanted to see what all the instant-preview fuss was about. It’s glorious!
We actually want to live in a country that gives prisoners the right to habeas corpus, that doesn’t torture people, and that doesn’t invade countries for no good reason.
Which is precisely why it’s a good thing I’m not going to be the next President, because I would quietly, extraordinarily render to Guantanamo all the conservative pundits who cheered these things, and let them rot for a year. You want to live in that kind of world, do you? Experience it firsthand.
Good thing for them that they’ve been wrong about everything to date. There isn’t even the possibility of information worth torturing out of them.
. . .Umm, I mean, cheered the destruction of those things. Alas; the nifty instant preview doesn’t work if you don’t actually use it.
Jillian:
While the majority of Democrats have shown that they don’t care about exiting Iraq nearly as much as their base does, and while Obama and Clinton (& Edwards?) have both refused to take an attack on Iran “off the table”, I still think that the Democrats are less psycho on this issue than the Republicans, less beholden to the Neoconservatives.
The Democrats have refused to take attacking Iran “off the table”, but just take a look at what the Repblican front-runners are saying on TV. McCain is up there singing, “Bomb Bomb, bomb Iran..” fer cying out loud. Romney is bragging about how he’s gonna torture any raghead who looks at the flag funny, and gushes that he wants, “Double Guantanomo” what ever that really means.
I still think there is a small but significant difference between the Democrats and the Republicans on issues of Pre-emptive war, torture, willingness to use Diplomacy, and certain constitutional issues. I know you are a socialist, and I personally think I may be one as well, but, unfortunately, it doesn’t matter what exactly we are so long as we are left of Bill O’Reilly, in the USA of 2007.
We have two parties that can get elected to the presidency. One is violently megalomaniac, paranoid-schizoid, and bigoted. The other is treacherous, weak, and divided. This is the reality of USA 2007. We have some smaller parties and groups that can have small but strategic, and possibly long-term, effects on the country and the process, like the socialists, the greens, the peace movement. Your earlier idea to start focussing on building up the Socialist groups was a good one. But in my view at least, we can’t neglect who gets to be president.
I don’t doubt that you know things that I don’t- and please feel free to list them and explain them. I don’t doubt for a second that the Democrats will backstab us leftists and continue on their vain, costly, and ultimately fruitless pursuit of winning over the right wing.
But, people forget that the Neocons are still in power now. They still have nearly complete influence over this administration. In a Republican administration, I still think they would have nearly complete influence. In a Democratic administration, they would have less than complete influence. I don’t know, I think that people forget how completely, and radically, Imperial and even Ceasarist the Neoconservatives are. And people forget that their power is basically the same now as it was in 2001, because their boy is still in office!
If you think it is strategically better for you to focus and building up the Socialists, and simply ignore the Democrats, and the presidential race, then OK, that makes sense for you. I don’t feel that I will do that. And it frustrates me when people say there is no important difference between Democrats and Republicans. I can’t forget that we live in a country that is mostly considering itself an empire, and which has thousands of ICBMs still pointed all over the world just waiting for someone to hit the button, and which has a new policy of torture and kidnapping, called Extraordinary Rendition, and the populace of this nation/empire is getting used to endless war, and this nation/empire may very well hit an economic crisis soon.
I am sorry to write at such length Jillian, and I don’t want to sound lecturing, its just that this brings up things for me.
Furthermore (to what atheist said), two words:
Supreme Court.
Or, to put it in even more stark terms:
One of these people is going to be the next President of the USA:
1. John McCain
2. Rudy Giuliani
3. Mitt Romney
4. Fred Thompson
5. Hillary Clinton
6. Barack Obama
7. John Edwards
8. Al Gore
That’s it. All the choices you get. So actually, you get only Three choices.
You can not vote. Doesn’t work for me.
You can vote for someone else. Fine, but that vote is not going to serve to offset a wingnut vote, and it’s not going to change the above fact. If you need to do it, fine, but it seems like you can’t then righteously complain about the outcome. Your guy never had a chance.
Or, you can select one of the actual candidates, even if it’s the one you find least distasteful, and support the hell out of them. Remember, the ultimate winner of the election will be one of those choices, pretty much no matter what you do.
You have to ask yourself. What would this country look like after four or even eight years of McCain, Romney or Giuliani? How about after four or even eight years of Clinton, Obama or Edwards? I haven’t made up my mind yet (I’m leaning towards John Edwards), but I will before the end of the year, and then I’m going balls to the wall to help get them elected. Sometimes it’s important to simply know what you DON’T want…
mikey
atheist. its also worth noting that the PNACers sent several ZOMG WE MUST TOPPLE SADDAM NOW!!1!!! letters to the White House in the mid-and-late-90s (with their shills in Congress mouthing the same words) and the president– the Democratic president– blew them off.
Its true that the two major parties are frustratingly alike on some policies but the whole “meh, they’re all the same” thing doesn’t hold up under close scrutiny. On foreign policy, Dems are more-or-less where they have been for decades: a general consensus around American Exceptionalism, the use of international institutions and trade agreements to ensure that no other country can try to fuck the US without fucking itself more, and projection of force as a backstop to diplomacy.
The Repubs have gone way past that. To them, diplomacy is weakness, force and threats of force are the only sources of legitimacy, and if the US isn’t kicking the shit out of some smaller country to “make an example” then our power is on the wane.
Democrats’ foreign policy is paternalistic and arrogant. Republican’s foreign policy is murderous and, ultimately, suicidal.
Ifthethunderdon’tget ya said:
Furthermore (to what atheist said), two words:
Supreme Court.
_________________________
Bingo. I’ve been saying this since 1999. I’m beginning to feel like Cassandra.
One more neocon making appointments to the Supreme Court, and it’s all over for the whole Land of the Free thing. Things are bad enough now.
Ouch. Looks like you guys want to keep ‘talking’ to Iran until they are a nuclear power and can tinker with their neighbor’s governments without fear. I guess it makes sense. ‘Talking’ has such a good track record with tyrannical regimes.
Oh wait, maybe Iran is what you call a democracy? *shiver*
Thanks, Kevin, but I couldn’t eat another bite!
Iran nuke ALL-ONE-GOD DILUTE DILUTE OK! Damn hippies! Feed the homeless, feel superior. There has to be someone I’m superior to, right? We’re ALL-ONE or None! Exceptions eternal? Absolute none!
Friggin’ hippies.
I hear ya, guys. I really do. And, for the record, I honestly *do* think there are differences between the Democrats and the Republicans.
I’m just not sure they actually matter.
If those differences do not result in actual, substantive policy differences, what difference does it make?
I hate to be so negative. But this disillusionment on my part goes all the way back to that annoying, arrogant bastard Clinton. Bill Clinton was substantially to the right of Richard Milhouse Nixon on a number of issues, for Christ’s sake. And this is what gets sold to us as “progressivism”.
Believe it or not, I actually am a Democratic voter at this point, for the most part. I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Bill Nelson last time around, because I couldn’t bring myself to vote for anyone who supported the Military Commissions Act. But mostly I’m a Democratic voter because I no longer think anything I can do politically will make a difference one way or the other. I think we’re past that point. I think we’re committed past the point of no return to the project of American Empire, and anything we do at this point is mostly just a delaying tactic. I think that even if we end up with a Democratic president next time around, he or she will find that the field of possible foreign policy options has narrowed to the point where they will have to make choices they don’t like, simply because they’re the best of a bad lot of choices. And the Democratic actions of the last week are in large part what have gotten me thinking this way.
If I had the cash, I’d leave for Canada next week. I wonder sometimes if we might be able to get the neocons to set up some sort of charity fund for those of us who see the last couple of years in this country as America’s Stalingrad – as the battle that, in retrospect, turned the tide past hope of recovery. They could give us the cash, we’d leave, and they’d have unrestricted access to the mechanisms of power in the country.
Don’t think I take any joy in this, and don’t think I’m not aching to be shown wrong. I look forward to eating a massive helping of crow on this issue. But until someone gives me a reason to think otherwise that I find convincing, I have to be honest about the way I see the world today.
Just glad I don’t have kids.
I would never say Bill Clinton was or is a progressive, Jillian. Here’s a quick quote from wiki:
Clinton was a New Democrat politician and was mainly responsible for the Third Way philosophy of governance that came to epitomize his two terms as president.
It suited the purposes of the wingnuts and neocons to call him a liberal.
As for the DLC and their ‘Third Way’, they suck. It’s a failure (see Harold Ford, current DLC chair…and loser in the TN senatorial campaign to a total schmoe in a most Democratic year).
None of their countries have a middle class or a culture of entrepreneurship to discover and disseminate new knowledge.
VDH missed a chance here to sneer at the effete nations of decadent Europe. He could have pointed out that the French (for instance) also lack a tradition of entrepreneurship, and that’s why they had to steal the English word for it.
Jillian:
OK, if that is the way you see it, then I can understand your view. If you believe that the actions taken by a Democratic president would not ultimately be able to change the Imperialistic course that the country is on then your earlier statement makes sense. I see things a bit differently but I cannot say that that is not the case.
If you are serious about the Neoconservative charity, I don’t think they would do it, and even if they did, there would probably be some kind of nasty scheme attached. It seems like there always is with them.
I am sorry to hear that you feel this way, and I hope you can find something which would offer you some hope in the possibilities of our species, this society, or your own actions, or at least a sense of peace.
Thanks, atheist – I do okay, for the most part. Life’s pretty good – the trick is to just enjoy it one day at a time. If you look at the big picture, it’s depressing as hell, but right here and now – today – is mostly sweet. I have a nice bottle of wine chilling in the fridge, some funky tropical sorbet in the freezer, and I think I’ll sit around tonight and watch Star Wars. Can’t ask for much more than that!
Overall, I really do think the country’s fucked, and what I’m trying to figure out now is what actions can I take that will help stabilize it without making things worse. My big worry right now is that actions that look like they might help make things better might actually make things worse. Things like – will people become more complacent if more Democrats are elected to office? I just dunno, and I haven’t had enough time to think it over lately….that’s what summer vacation is for.
As far as Bill not being a liberal – I completely agree. BUT……..I betcha if you polled a hundred random passersby on the street, all of them would say he was a liberal. Folks who think of themselves as conservative would sneer at the mention of his name, and folks who think of themselves as liberals would be horribly offended that you implied Clinton was anything other than the savior of the Grand Liberal Agenda. This is part of the reason why I think the country’s fucked, btw.
We’ll see what happens. There’s always reason to hope, I suppose.
Because we all know that Iran is TEH MOST EVILEST COUNTRY EVAR (at least this week) and no amount of diplomacy or engagement could ever be better than nuking them. I mean, it’s not like there has been a large proportion of younger, moderate Iranians who have been gravitating toward Western culture and democracy for two decades. Nope. We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Interesting choice of words, “can tinker with their neighbor’s [sic] governments without fear.” Apparently, to Kevin, only the U.S. is allowed to tinker with Iran’s neighbors’ governments, with or without fear.
Simple pleasures are good for the soul, yes. I think I will be watching that Pirates of the Carribean III movie tonight, with my girlfreind, & maybe get some Indian food afterwards. Or maybe we will go to the river and feed some ducks.
And yes, stabilization is a good word for what I am after politically at this point as well. It may sound lame but, I think it is necessary if we are to start grappling with larger issues, like the steadily increasing inequality in this society, like the vast, and real, danger of global warming.
The Bill Clinton as stand-in-for-“Liberals” thing has been quite annoying, and rather absurd. What is even stranger is that, according the Neoconservatives, George H. W. Bush was also a ‘liberal’. Considering the importance and even centrality of deception in the Neoconservative strategy, and the way that they view society as being composed of people who must be lied to and manipulated, it is difficult to discern what, exactly their true beliefs may be. However, a film I saw had prominent Neo-cons stating point-blank that they felt George H. W. Bush was a liberal, in light of his refusal to occupy Iraq.
So, there are all kinds of bizzarre ways that our current propagandistic media contort reality, and politics.
OK, so I ‘m not gonna read 80 somethin’ comments to see if someone has already said this, but honestly, if it costs me 3 freaking dollars to drive in air-conditioned comfort for something like 17 miles I consider it a bargain. I used to ride a bicycle to work in MIAMI, and 3 dollars for 17 miles is so damn cheap I really believe almost anyone can afford it. Yeh, it sucks to pay more than I did before, but give me a break–I’ll bet most of us pay way more for our damn cell phone and internet (or perhaps TV) than we do for basic “get me from here to there.” Transportation is a simple need, but if you wanna bitch, try out the cost of HEALTH CARE (freakin’ SURVIVAL!!11!!) as a point of frustration, rather than a stupid tankful of gas.
OK, so I read the orignial post now and see I am completely off -topic, but this is the internet and I’ve had too much to drink, so I’m hitting the submit button right about no
“Looks like you guys want to keep ‘talking’ to Iran until they are a nuclear power and can tinker with their neighbor’s governments without fear.”
And we all know how dangerous that combination can be. Ask the tens of thousands of dead Iraqis, many of them showing signs of torture.
Seriously, ‘thinking’ like this is what makes neo-con gasbags like VDH so odious. If the United States wanted to encourage Iran to build a-bombs, we would invade a neighboring country on a pack of lies, then grind our once-mighty military to flinders in a failed occupation. Lacking a conventional army, we’d have to use the threat of our nukes to bully other countries. Iranians can see that the United States, during the Cold War, didn’t attack an opponent who had a credible nuclear deterrent.
“Oh wait, maybe Iran is what you call a democracy?”
It’s a constitutional republic, but with too much influence from religious conservatives. Such a country should never have nuclear weapons, or the ability to invade other countries, and the rest of the world should use force to prevent the accumulation of those powers. I’m glad to see we agree.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that you say about Iran and nuclear capability, you MUST also say about Israel or you are clearly just another asshat with an agenda. Israel is not even a signatory to the NPT. Iran is, and continues to allow inspections. Iran is legally entitled to the nuclear program they have, while Israel is not, as they have not signed the agreement that makes their peaceful program legal. Their weapons program is utterly illegal.
Is iran working on weapons? Maybe. Probably. Hell, their leadership would be malfeasant if they weren’t considering their geopolitical situation. But first, the IAEA should have to come up with some evidence. And if the world thinks they can just simply take away rights from a nation that have been specifically granted to that nation by treaty, you better start worrying about living in a world without rules. ‘Cause that has a funny way of coming back to bite you in the ass…
mikey
Well, I see that the site I depend on so much for snarky humor and other post-Spy self-indulgence has turned, at least for now, into a serious forum to discuss troubling trends and our responses to them.
Not that it’s a bad thing, per se. I’m into serious discussion as much as the next lefty/lib guy or gal.
It’s a sad, sad state of affairs that we’re in, largely due to the actions of a cabal that waited patiently in the shadows until the moment was right, then did what they had to do to seize (and so far, keep) power.
As my mom always said, it’s time for us to hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.
OK, now – can we please bring back teh snark?
Qetesh the Abyssinian, a Blakes 7 mention, and I thought I was the only person that still recalled that. The special effects were particularly dodgy & where the was ‘Blake’ anyway? They must be dusting it off for a movie soon!
Longer, somewhat more cogent VDH.
….many bored Americans turn instead to the la-la land of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.
Sooooo day before yesterday, Mr GetsPaidForSocioPoliticalCommentary.
Lindsay Lohan!
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3217066
Kevin, if you feel so strongly about the “war” in Iraq, then why aren’t you there? Seriously.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that you say about Iran and nuclear capability, you MUST also say about Israel or you are clearly just another asshat with an agenda.
I can’t believe I just read this.
You’re comparing a Western-style democracy, a secular country that has no official religion, to a hostile nation under the dominion of clerics for whom anti-Western and anti-American sentiment is a mainstream part of the dialogue, as is DENIAL OF THE HOLOCAUST?
Who’s the asshat with an agenda? I love it, though, when partisan bitchery leads to denial of reality. Way to be on the same side as David Duke on an issue.
Yes, Israel has performed its fair share of human rights violations…just like us, and just like any other Western nation – which makes it JUST LIKE IRAN, right?
You are right in comparing Israel to Iran, though, at least in one way: Israel has the right to exist, and Israel isn’t going anywhere.
Just like Iran – no matter what the 300-loving madmen pushing for war with the Persians might believe.
The special effects were particularly dodgy & where the was ‘Blake’ anyway? They must be dusting it off for a movie soon!
Oh, lobbey, you make me as warm and fuzzy on the inside as I am on the outside. I’ve always said the effects were not at all special, were indeed extremely mundane. I particularly liked the “spaceship” corridors that shuddered when somebody ran through them. That’s a very special kind of effect.
But the great asset of Blakes 7 was the characters and the stories. No 2-dimensional characters here: Blake was a monomaniacal revolutionary, Avon a self-centred genius who deplored everyone and would happily sell them all for cash, and Servalan, as the villain, was extraordinarily camp in her evening gown and spike heels, even in the middle of a forest. Bless them all, and the conflicts they suffered. Nary a disposable ensign to be seen (cough Star Trek cough).
As for your “Where was Blake” question, it’s clear you missed, or have forgotten, the glorious first and second series, wherein all was set up. Oh, those heady days of running from the Federation, then attacking in a lightning guerilla raid, all led by Blake (and diverted by Avon).
Takes me back to my yoof.
You’re comparing a Western-style democracy, a secular country that has no official religion, to a hostile nation under the dominion of clerics for whom anti-Western and anti-American sentiment is a mainstream part of the dialogue, as is DENIAL OF THE HOLOCAUST?
Let’s take this piece by piece.
Western-style democracy: Perhaps, in that they have elections. But they also discriminate by their own laws against Palestinian Arabs, whether Muslim or Christian.
secular country that has no official religion: Are joo cray-zee? Look at their immigration laws, for starters.
a hostile nation: “hostile” depends on your point of view. There are thousands upon thousands of dead Palestinians who’d say that Israel is plenty hostile. Or do they not matter? Is a nation only “hostile” if it’s hostile to Murrka?
under the dominion of clerics: Well, think about Hagee and all his lunatic followers who get regular invitations to the White House, and influence policy. They want to bring on Armageddon, and the Preznit goes along with them. I’d say that’s pretty damn dangerous.
anti-Western and anti-American sentiment is a mainstream part of the dialogue: Ever looked at the US media? Anti-Muslim sentiment is a pretty large part of the mainstream dialogue.
And they can be forgiven for being anti-American, given that the US overthrew their democratically elected government in 1953, installing the Shah and the most brutal regime in the Middle East (and possibly the world, at least until the US overthrew the governments of Chile and other South and Central American nations). And the US continues to threaten them, blame them, and excoriate them, despite the attempted approach of more moderate folks.
Oh, and they’re not really anti-Western, just anti-US. Understandably so. They were quite happily modernising and moderating, until Bush stuck his fat foot in his mouth and started abusing them.
as is DENIAL OF THE HOLOCAUST: (a) we don’t know how many of the people believe that, so it could just be another ploy by Ahmedinedjad The Shit-stirrer, and (b) the US government denies most of its own atrocities, despite plentiful evidence and being the home of freedom, democracy, and ponies for everyone.
Israel has the right to exist, and Israel isn’t going anywhere.
True on the first, but I’ve a correction on the second. Israel is indeed going somewhere, at a great rate. Israel is bulldozing its way through Palestine, pursuing an ongoing policy of genocide with the express support of the US government (for decades).
As far as a comparison between Iran and Israel goes, there are some similarities. Both are full of ordinary people who just want to get on with their lives. The government of one oppresses people inside the country, the government of the other oppresses people outside the country. Is one better? No.
And when was the last time Iran bombed anyone? We’d be going back for more than a decade. When was the last time Israel bombed anyone? Last December.
Also, don’t toy with Mikey. You don’t know where he’s been.
“After the collapse of the Soviet Empire in 1991, America proclaimed itself at the “end of historyâ€? – meaning that the spread of our style of democratic capitalism was now inevitable”
Francis Fukuyama == America. He is large, he contains multitudes? Who knew?
Lons wrote: “4. But…what would it matter if they’re a whole country of people without siblings for the purposes of this argument?”
Meaning that each couple has a single child, so the median age of the population is rising, ie, ‘aging’.
The way he said it was awkward, but it’s true. Japan is also aging, but not because of an enforced population control policy – in Japan it’s because (I think) people are putting off marriage and childbearing until later, and having few children voluntarily (the price of living space is probably a huge incentive.)
VDH could have just said China is aging, and been done with that. Eventually, India’s uncontrolled population growth will probably demonstrate that China’s one-child policy wasn’t such a bad idea afterall, despite the demographic bumps.
[/lurk]
Ooh, ooh, is there really an autopreview? I’m afraid to touch it or it’ll break–
[lurk]
Wow! I love the Internets because I always learn something new. Today I learned Pat Buchanan (A Republic, Not an Empire: Reclaiming America’s Destiny) is a liberal because as VDH (with the emphasis on VD) says: “Books by liberals assure us that our “empireâ€? is kaput.” Who knew? And has anyone let Bay in on the secret?
a secular country that has no official religion, to a hostile nation under the dominion of clerics
A secular country? Mostly. No official religion? Gimme a break.
And what the heck does ‘a hostile nation’ mean in reality? Nothing.
Israel is hostile to the Palestinians, Iran, Syria, indeed most of the middle east. Iran is hostile to Israel, officially hostile to the USA (although much of their populace isn’t). The USA is hostile to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela, Syria etc. etc. etc.
A hostile nation, gimme a break. Everyone is hostile to someone. I’m hostile to people who use meaningless, emotional, manipulative terms in debates, OK?
“Iran nuke ALL-ONE-GOD DILUTE DILUTE OK! Damn hippies! Feed the homeless, feel superior. There has to be someone I’m superior to, right? We’re ALL-ONE or None! Exceptions eternal? Absolute none!”
Dilute! Dilute! OK!!!
Much truth upthread, but my question is a simple one. Why is it that friends of America can piss all over the NPT and anyone we don’t like can’t even enjoy the legal benefits it provides? Nukes are nukes, my friends. If you think nukes are good as long as you or your buddies have them, you haven’t thought the whole nuclear war thing all the way through…
mikey
Mikey, it’s the same reason why friends of America can commit all the human rights violations they want to. It’s why we defended Augusto Pinochet, Ferdinand Marcos, and a host of other people.
It’s a constitutional republic, but with too much influence from religious conservatives. Such a country should never have nuclear weapons, or the ability to invade other countries, and the rest of the world should use force to prevent the accumulation of those powers. I’m glad to see we agree
To build on Paddy Mac’s comment:
It’s easy enough for a country to call itself a Democracy, but it is open to serious criticism when its electoral system is set up to ensure that the list of authorised candidates for the top position does not actually include any people whom the electors might genuinely prefer.
And Iran has problems too.
Such a country should never have nuclear weapons, or the ability to invade other countries, and the rest of the world should use force to prevent the accumulation of those powers.
And, to the extent that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, we need look no further than idiotic statements like this to understand why. Hell, the saber rattling is driving them to it, even if they wouldn’t have gone there on their own.
Jesus christs tits in a mason jar. Has ANY American ever even read the NPT? Even the wikipedia article? Makes me wanna put a wingnut in a hole and throw books at him…
mikey
When I walk my dog we pass a lot of other dogs being walked. Some she challenges, but she and this one other dog play an extended game of “I can ignore you harder than you’re ignoring me.” It’s a doggie status thing, saying, I have so little respect for you I won’t even deign to notice you. This when they’re standing two feet from each other.
Iran is sick of being treated like a pariah. Granted, it’s earned a measure of that disrespect, but the US embassy incident was nearly thirty years ago. A lot of Iranians are tired of being punished for their parents’ misdeeds. Isn’t this why they’re working on a nuke? To force the world, primarily the US, to stop playing these stupid doggy status games and show a decent measure of respect for one of the world’s most ancient civilizations. If we keep playing I-don’t-see-you, don’t we risk making them mad enough and desperate enough to consider using a nuke, not just building one? Starting a polite, non-committal conversation, something that would smooth their feathers and ease their wounded pride, might be the safest course.
Oh, by the way, my dog indulges in these doggy status games becuase she knows I’m holding her leash and won’t let her get into any real trouble. Who’s holding Iran’s leash?
“…Makes me wanna put a wingnut in a hole and throw books at him…”
What a waste of books.
Mikey, I suspect that Paddy Mac was appreciating another of life’s little ironies.
Well, sure.
I knew that!
mikey
mikey, it’s the same reason Bush thinks the Bush doctrine of preemptive warfare in ‘self defense’ is only permissible for the US.
I mean, crikey, Iranian meddling in Iraq is a prime example of the Bush doctrine in action.
Granted, it’s earned a measure of that disrespect, but the US embassy incident was nearly thirty years ago.
And the US efforts in overthrowing the democratically elected Mossadegh government were over 50 years ago, which earned the US a whole lot more than just disrespect in Iran. Particularly since the effects for them lasted about 26 years (and which also make the embassy incident more than a little understandable).
A lot of Iranians are tired of being punished for their parents’ misdeeds. Isn’t this why they’re working on a nuke?
No, actually. Well, in a sense, yes: they’re being punished for their nation’s ongoing failure to kowtow to the US. And I think they’re more likely to want to build a nuke (please note that there’s no evidence that they’re actually working on one) because the US government has been threatening and abusing them, and has invaded and occupied and devastated the country next door.
What would the US do, d’you think, if Russia had invaded Canada, stomped around there for 4 years, during which they kept up an unrelenting barrage of threats and abuse at the US? Including repeatedly claiming that the US was evil, that there was a need for “regime change” throughout the North American continent, and that the US was responsible for Canadian resistance?
Who’s holding Iran’s leash?
Don’t know, don’t care. I think Iran is a mature country capable of walking without a leash. What I want to know is who’s holding Bush’s leash? And who the fuck let him out of his cage?
Good points, all! I totally was into whatever you were saying!
But why did no one ever fix the loony toons pic to my one that is actually beliievable? Is the some kind of left wing conspiracy?
Oh my gawd. The sheer level of antisemitism here is boggling. How dare anyone slam a country like Israel?!one!
Its not like Israel was ethnically cleansed into existance…
The problem is not islamic supremacists. It’s Christians trying to say that they don’t believe in evolution! At least when the jihadists say ”Allahu Akbar’, they’re only trying to behead people, not like those evil Christians who are trying to actually prove things that probably aren’t true!
Get those evil Christian bastages, so we can move along to peace. The islamists will of course support your actions.
Oh, and death to america.
Hey, why are you still using that lame looney toon image, when I gave you one (for free) that looks much more real? Don’t be all partisan, Gavin (aka Brad Rocket). As they say, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
We all agree that the crazy right is better than the left at making images (we’ve got to work a bit to make them look good, and let’s face it – only the right loves to work), and I GAVE that one to you.
Don’t be gay. Take the pic. It’s free, and makes you look compitent! (well, would have)
neo-CON-men like Hanson are BOMBASTIC IMBECILES who think they have a GOD-given RIGHT to PONTIFICATE their USELESS BITS OF CLASSICAL and PAST HISTORY that they try to use to CONNECT America with their WARPED vision of EMPIRE! Victor, you and neo-CON-men HAVE YOUR SHIT-FOR-BRAINS FILLED HEADS UP YOUR FUCKING ASSHOLES—REMEMBER, THE ROMAN EMPIRE FELL, AND SO WILL AMERICA IF IDIOTIC MORONS LIKE YOU CONTINUE TO TRY AND INFLUENCE THOSE IN POWER LIKE THAT Torticola Brainiac Walking Bucket of Bolts Dick-LESS B(ugger) Cheney and other neo-CON-men of Bushland Uber Allies. GET A LIFE, Hanson, though that may prove to be an effort for an effete FUCKHEAD and SELF-ABSORBED SOCIOPATH neo-CON-man and DELUDED SIMPLETON, who by the way still thinks we can WIN in Iraq—WHAT A FUCKING MAROON ya are, Victor David Hanson!!!!!!
WHO recently said: “These Jews started 19 crusades. The 19th was World War I. Why? Only to build Israel.” Some holdover Nazi? Hardly.
It was former prime minister Necmettin Erbakan of Turkey, a NATO ally. He went on to claim that the Jews – whom he refers to as “bacteria” – controlled China, India and Japan, and ran the US.
Who alleged: “The Arabs who were involved in 9/11 co-operated with the Zionists, actually. It was a co-operation. They gave them the perfect excuse to denounce all Arabs.”
A conspiracy nut? Actually it was former US senator James Abourezk. He denounced Israel on a Hezbollah-owned television station, adding: “I marvelled at the Hezbollah resistance to Israel … It was a marvel of organisation, of courage and bravery.”
And finally, who claimed at a UN-sponsored conference that democratic Israel was “much worse” than the former apartheid South Africa and that it “undermines the international community’s reaction to global warming”?
A radical environmentalist wacko? Again, no. It was Clare Short, a member of the British parliament. She was secretary for international development under prime minister Tony Blair.
A new virulent strain of the old anti-Semitism is spreading worldwide.
This hate – of a magnitude not seen in more than 70 years – is espoused not just by Iran’s loony President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or radical jihadis. The latest anti-Semitism is also now mouthed by world leaders and sophisticated politicians and academics. Their loathing often masquerades as “anti-Zionism” or “legitimate” criticism of Israel.
But the venom exclusively reserved for the Jewish state betrays their existential hatred.
Israel is always lambasted for entering homes in the West Bank to look for Hamas terrorists and using too much force. But last week the world snoozed when the Lebanese army bombarded and then crushed the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp, which harboured Islamic terrorists. The world has long objected to Jewish settlers buying up land in the West Bank. Yet Hezbollah, flush with Iranian money, is now purchasing large tracts in southern Lebanon for military purposes and purging them of non-Shiites.
In the US, “neo-conservative” has become synonymous with a supposed Jewish cabal of Washington insiders who hijacked US policy to take us to war in Israel’s interest. Yet when the US bombed European and Christian Serbia to help Balkan Muslims, few critics alleged that American Muslims had unduly swayed Bill Clinton.
And such charges of improper ethnic influence are rarely levelled to explain the billions in American aid given to non-democratic Egypt, Jordan or the Palestinians, or the Saudi oil money that pours into American universities.
The world likewise displays such a double standard. It seems to care little about the principle of so-called occupied land – whether in Cyprus or Tibet – unless Israel is the accused.
Mass murder in Cambodia, the Congo, Rwanda and Darfur has earned far fewer UN resolutions of condemnation than supposed atrocities committed by Israel. A number of British academics are sponsoring a boycott of Israeli scholars but leave alone those from autocratic Iran, China and Cuba.
There are various explanations for the new anti-Semitism. For many abroad, attacking Jews and Israel is an indirect way of damning its main ally, the US: by implying that Americans are not entirely evil, just hoodwinked by those sneaky and far more evil Jews.
In the US, there are obvious pragmatic considerations. Some Americans may find it makes more sense to damn a few million Israelis without oil than it does to offend Israel’s adversaries in the Middle East, who number in the hundreds of millions and control nearly half the world’s petroleum reserves.
Cowardice explains a lot. Libelling Israel won’t earn someone a fatwa or a death sentence in the manner comparable criticism of Islam might. There are no Jewish suicide bombers in London, Madrid or Bali.
This new face of anti-Semitism is so insidious because it is so well disguised, advanced by self-proclaimed diplomats and academics, and now embraced by the supposedly sophisticated Left on university campuses.
When national, collective or personal aspirations are not met, it is far easier to blame someone or something rather than to look within for the source of the failure and frustration. More recently, someone must be blamed for getting terrorists (with oil and its profits behind them) mad at us.
That someone is – no surprise – once again Jews.
Victor Davis Hanson, a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution in San Francisco, is a regular contributor to the New York Post, in which this article originally appeared
Hes far from a loony and youre all way out of your depth sitting in your plastic covered furniture sets and eating you 99 cent mac an cheese
think about that next time u try to blame leaders for doing what youre all too scared to do yourselves…
If it wasnt for banner waving gun toting testosterone filled He-men fighting for our freedoms and starting wars so that we wont have to lose the same war when its inevitably started against us all you girly men cowering under your beds clawing at your mommy’s and wives ankles in fear would get ass rammed and raped by the reality of the world which is “the biggest dogs win”. The flip side is as you are proving “the smallest dogs cower and make a lot of noise because they=weaklings and are ineffectual and bringing about change, so they cry and cry booo hoooo”
get a clue youre opinions are not heard and they matter for nothing….only those with power matter, and you fags have zero!!!!!
idiot americans said,
November 12, 2007 at 17:30
Yes, idiot americans do say the sorts of things you say. Good point.
Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog. 🙂 Cheers! Sandra. R.
I love your site. 🙂 Love design!!! I just came across your blog and wanted to say that I?ve really enjoyed browsing your blog posts. Sign: ndsam
Sign: umsun Hello!!! rcuwwymhyw and 345ssgfhphzye and 6256Great Blog!
Sign: zdbrw Hello!!! mvucv and 9403hwyewxuhra and 4607 : I will try to recommend this post to my friends and family, cuz its really helpful.
Well, here we are in the summer of 2014!
Isis – or however they are spelling it –
seems to be the new Taliban and is sure
going out of their way to ensure a return
of U.S. troops to Iraq. Good ‘ol VD has not made
them a priority yet, though. I would like to
point out, however, that IF Sadaam (sp?)
were still there, (and, no, I’m not particu-
larly fond of SH; but I would damn-sure
rather hear about him and his antics, thanVD-H!) his neck-of-the-woods likely
would be the last choice of a group such
as Isis! BTW – I found this article because
I hate his (VD-H) fukin guts too! How lovely when someone sees stuff like I do!