I’m in agreement. We should also raise the minimum age for smoking to 65 as well. No more lung cancer!!

Hey, whatever it takes to get that Lynda Carter porn!

I think by 65 a woman has finally attained the maturity necessary to weigh the pros and cons of participating in pornography.

I’m so grateful a man like Jon is looking out for my interests, and the interests of society at large, btw. We can’t get rid of gun-toting schizophrenics, so we need to stop women from exposing their nubile, perky breasts and setting off murdering rampages.

is it unfair of me to feel that a tiny bit of the reaction against Garance’s article isn’t a concern for women’s rights, but a fear that y’all will lose your porn?

is it unfair of me to feel that a tiny bit of the reaction against Garance’s article isn’t a concern for women’s rights, but a fear that y’all will lose your porn?

1.) I don’t watch porn (really, you can search my whole hard drive… er, that came out wrong)…

2.) I think the argument is more that if someone’s an adult at the age of 18- if they’re old enough to vote, if they’re old enough to be sent off to war- then they’re an adult, period.

I think Roy has this right- the problem in our culture is that WE HOLD THIS SORT OF STUFF AGAINST WOMEN IN THE FIRST PLACE. Whereas frat boys doing similar stuff, well, that’s just boys being boys.

Porn, schmorn. Why pay to look at what you can actually interact with for free?

I, for one, welcome our senior porn overlords!

P.S. Kathleen, you may have a point there. I’m going to have to wait for Anne Althouse to weigh in before I make a final decision.

I’m not quite ready yet to only rent movies like “Granny’s with Tight Fannies”…

is it unfair of me

No, that’d be mean and funny.

There is a market for this. The New York Times had an article on the subject back in December.

bradrocket makes a good point. Being a slut knows no gender boundaries, and in fact the biggest sluts I’ve known have invariably been male.
That said, this is just more white liberal self-superiority. (Please remember I’m a white liberal.) Garance knows better than these poor, drunken fools with no self-restraint or control, and the poor dears need to be saved from themselves. Obviously GGW is demeaning to women. So is Sex and the City.

A minimum age of 65 will drive the prices of “cherry poppin porn” to impossible heights!

Of course you realize that the age restriction would also apply to men, right?

Kathleen,
is it unfair of me to feel that a tiny bit of the reaction against Garance’s article isn’t a concern for women’s rights, but a fear that y’all will lose your porn?

Nah, just feminist. 🙂

(My favorite quote from this argument over at Pandagon:
Labor laws setting the minimum wage for appearing in commercial porn at $1,000 a minute would do a lot to put the ice on “Girls Gone Wild�, and without risking the danger of infantilizing women or hurting college kids taking pictures of each other naked in the dorm room for the hell of it. Plus it would be a good measure of which guys are using pseudo-feminist arguments to defend getting naked while drunk on camera because they are scared to death of losing their opportunity to jerk off to pictures of high school age girls. (Are 21 year old women that disgusting that seeing them naked isn’t an acceptable substitute?)

Garance knows better than these poor, drunken fools with no self-restraint or control, and the poor dears need to be saved from themselves.

Yeah, that was my general objection to it.

Also, Garance shoulda known that when the WSJ accepts an opinion piece from a liberal, it’s because it advances their own views, be they on economic, social or foreign policy.

the problem in our culture is that WE HOLD THIS SORT OF STUFF AGAINST WOMEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Comments like that are why I love hanging out here. Gives me hope for the next generation of men.

is it unfair of me to feel that a tiny bit of the reaction against Garance’s article isn’t a concern for women’s rights, but a fear that y’all will lose your porn?

Maybe that would make sense if anyone thought that an article by Garance Franke-Ruta will cause a chain reaction leading to the banning of all but granny porn. Somehow I think it won’t but I’m not going to be surprised if the handful of guys here who have bugs up their asses about feminist politics use your quote to get their anti-feminist freak on.

Presuming I’m one of that handful, lemme make clear. I love feminists. I was raised by one. My problem is with so-called radical feminists, who often use words like patriarchy to disguise misandry. (Not to say there aren’t legit points to be made about patriarchal power structures.) I think they’re largely hypocrites, trying to disassociate themselves from said power structures as a dodge of cultural guilt.
n that’s that.

Also, Garance shoulda known that when the WSJ accepts an opinion piece from a liberal, it’s because it advances their own views, be they on economic, social or foreign policy.

Hmm, so Garance is kind of a whore, huh?

[Runs quickly]

Sixty-five is still far too young for ultra porn.

It’s already illegal to film people who are minors. So is it the age that’s the problem here, or the sobriety status of otherwise legal participants?

Tell me he’s joking. Tell me he’s not such a paternalistic Eddy that he thinks he should be able to tell women they’re not capable of mature decisions until they’re retired. And why is it just women? “I think by 65 a woman has finally attained…” Last I checked, there are men in porn too. Should this senior porn be able to have young, nubile men in it? I’m imagining the hot, young pool boy with Ellen Barkin… Okay, now I need a melon baller so I can remove that chunk of my brain.

Seriously, even if this is tongue in cheek (how is that possible when his head is up his ass?) it’s still paternalistic, misogynistic bullshit. Had a progressive woman wrote it, I could buy it as satire/snark, but given the source…

Somebody needs to get acquainted with Mr. Swift’s brand of satire. Like the Jon Swift of old, he takes on the language and arguments of his rivals in order to expose their foolishness. And he’s very, very, very good at it.

Should this senior porn be able to have young, nubile men in it?

Of course not!

Jon Swift is completely serious. And, for that matter, I really went to Lilliput.

This article makes me think the United States needs a Porn Czar. I am willing to take responsibility for the quality of the United States’ porn output.

While we’re at it, anyone want to be the Recreational Drug Czar? I can even wrangle for a Booze Czar for the more traditional hedonists.

I know the search will be tough, what with all those conservatives trying to harsh our collective buzzes, but I am up to the task.

I dibs pot czar.
Too bad.
I called dibs.

One wonders why people haven’t gone after the people who are supplying the liquored-up 18-year olds with the booze. You know, bars and stuff.

Similarly, is there no recognition in law that people are a little nuts while drinking and that consent is reallly really really important?

“Raising the minimum age for participating in pornography to 65 would just be the first step to returning America to the greatness it had before the 1950s when sex began to warp our culture.”

It sure was great when sexism, segregation, and zenaphobia were raging full force, don’t you think?

Ah, the pre-50s. When white men could be superior and not have to think about it. Those were the days.

While we’re at it, anyone want to be the Recreational Drug Czar?

I dibs pot czar.

Sorry, db, this is a job that calls for decades of experience. I would, however, be delighted to have you as my deputy…

mikey

Isn’t there something of a problem with responding to a specific suggested solution to a specific problem by saying “What we really need to do is take down the Patriarchy!”?

Maybe I am feeling too pessimistic these days, but that ain’t really gonna happen.

So then it seems to me, what everyone is saying is that the status quo is better than a porn consent age of 21. In which case, then let’s say that, rather than a fanciful “when the patriarch is defeated these problems will be solved!”

BTW… Have any of you heard of the sex positive movement?

I wonder why sex = evil. That does not seem like a very progressive position to take.

Exploitation is exploitation. But if a 19 year old wants to work in the sex industry, why is that evil? Is sex Dirty? Nasty? Wrong? We all make decisions in our lives that we regret later. But because this has to do with flesh, it is worse?

I don’t buy the arguement that pornography is automatically bad. There are shades of grey to everything. (Bring on the attack dogs.)

So then it seems to me, what everyone is saying is that the status quo is better than a porn consent age of 21. In which case, then let’s say that, rather than a fanciful “when the patriarch is defeated these problems will be solved!�

For what it’s worth I don’t honestly care if a regulation like this passes or fails. It’s such a small area affecting such a specific subset of people that in a way it’s hard to imagine it being a big deal.

OTOH, such people are adults, and adults will do what they do, and is everyone who photographs a naked under-21-year-old subject to this? Is it retroactive? Why should someone who’s 19 and earning a sober living doing it be rendered unemployable? Why should they be unemployable in any case? Would a better law be “do not discriminate against people who have once been naked”? Does the rest of the world and the internet give a shit about US law?

Is denying agency to young girls something that forestalls things like this or adds to them?

It seems that no one has yet called dibs on booze czar. Never let it be said that I refused to heed the call of duty.

*hic*

“…isn’t a concern for women’s rights, but a fear that y’all will lose your porn?”

Dear Kathleen,
1. Replace “porn” with “guns”.
2. Replace “women’s” with “victims'”.
3. Re-read.
4. Remove foot from mouth.

One of my regrets in life, is not taking the career path of being paid for sex…

Dear Kathleen,
1. Replace “porn� with “guns�.
2. Replace “women’s� with “victims’�.
3. Re-read.
4. Remove foot from mouth.

I don’t get it. I know SN has a healthy percentage of gun-nuts, but there’s a far better case for getting rid of guns than controlling flashing 18-year-olds.

My Aunt Nettie says:

“I honestly think that what we really have to keep off the Internet is Granny Porn. This is far more insidious and dangerous to the species. Now, speaking personally, I used to have a set of shanks and a front porch that caused men to pop their toppers at a clean hundred yards distance, but today, anyone who caught a glimpse of me in the buff would go blind or insane. You put a couple of centerfolds from the American Journal of Geriatrics up on the ‘Net, and you’d be able to hear gent’s equipment sucking back so far up their insides they’d be singing soprano in the church choir. So help fight Granny Porn and Save the Males! Send your generous contributions to nettie@dearauntnettie.com and I will put them to good use.”

Sex is a good thing. Period. End of discussion.

This is coming from a Dad who has a 13 year old daughter, understanding that inevitably, she will be having sex in 15 – 20 years…

We could also consider not allowing any “consent form” to be legally binding if the signatory can prove intoxication at the time, but that would open up a whole ‘nother can of worms.

Similarly, is there no recognition in law that people are a little nuts while drinking and that consent is reallly really really important?

Yes, in fact, there is exactly that recognition in the law, which is one of the reasons Francis is in trouble: he specifically targeted legally incapacitated women and often bullied them into signing consent forms–which, as we all know, doesn’t actually count as “consent”. (He was also not terribly concerned if his subjects were actually 18, with is the other part of the problem.)

But none of the feminist blogs I read support Garance’s proposal: the paternalistic, “poor silly women need to be protected because they are too stupid to make their own decisions” attitude (from the audience) is too overwheming. Also, as a few have pointed out, this proposed law wouldn’t be enforced in good faith anyway, not as long as the misogynistic “slut-shaming” cultural attitudes continue. This proposal would just be another stick with which to beat the horrible, evil women who acknowledge their sexual nature.

So in response to “is there anything that can be done short of dismantling the patriarchy”, yes, there is: enforce the anti-predator and anti-fraud laws, even when the folks who break them produce profitable, popular, mainstream porn.

The British Heart Foundation is way ahead of Jon Swift. Forget the woman, look at the man!

Many of you old fellas could have a career.

Re: the British Heart Foundation ad

If you don’t know how to do it, I’ll show you how to walk the dog.

I’m afraid I missed your point Vic. Some gun rights people care less about victim’s rights than losing their guns? And?

“is it unfair of me to feel that a tiny bit of the reaction against Garance’s article isn’t a concern for women’s rights, but a fear that y’all will lose your porn?”

Um… no. However I’ll point out that the issue with Girls Gone Wild and the ilk is that it represents a really ugly side of porn. There is this lack of respect, exploitation, and reasonable consent that isn’t nice at all. A mainstream porn actress at least goes through some process involving consent and is earning a living. Porn is a skeezy business, but it’s honestly skeezy. GGW ain’t even that.

but there’s a far better case for getting rid of guns than controlling flashing 18-year-olds.

Maybe so, Bubba, but there’s no effective methodology for doing either, making the entire argument academic. It’s like deporting teh illegal aliens, or switching over to hydrogen fuel-cell autos. You can make a case for doing it, but it can’t actually be done…

mikey

Additional comment.

Instead of raising the age of consent for such things, one could pass one law that would help, require that the photographer get signed consent 24 hours after the shoot unless they have consent on file.

As the newly appointed Porn Czar, my solution to this “thought experiment” is to allow women who are exploited by pornographers to kick pornographers in the nuts and keep the profits from the sales of said nut-kicking porno movies.

Thank you. I will now return to my GOP-provided golden palace, which seems to be crumbling. Must be all the hippies taking over the whole damn country…

Garance was a bit silly, but boys who think this:

“Porn is a skeezy business, but it’s honestly skeezy.”

are living on a different planet.

Wow.

It’s hard to believe that there are people so unacquainted with the concept of satire that they think Jon is serious. Doesn’t anyone read Mencken anymore?

Personally, I continue to agree with the point Amanda made on Pandagon. If we turn this into a dispute of labor rather than of ages of consent and blah blah blah, I think we’d make a much faster push towards a change. I’m not sure how you’d go about it, form a porn actor’s guild or a porn local 111, but it’d probably go a long way towards reducing the skeezeball tactics of a lot of companies.

I’m going to need a LOT MORE POT!

I say we seize BC and demand they expand growing operations…

Invade Canada, Herr Rove?

Execellent idea! Who’s with us!!!

Better than an invasion. Why don’t we just take BC, Washington, Oregon and Northern California and form a nation of our own? Between Sili Valley, Microsoft and Boeing we’d have a strong economic base, and between Mendo, Humboldt and BC we’d have approximately two pounds of pot for every man, woman, child and dog…

mikey

GGW comes across as hateful and just creepy and women hating to me,and that’s my objection. It breaks my heart that Francis is rich off it and there’s some demand for it, ya know,as a woman I don’t feel safe in this culture as it is,that Francis is some sort of hero makes me want to puke. I’m trying to raise a son in this madness,to love and care about women as people,everytime I see one of those commercials on teevee I feel like I’m fighting a losing battle.

As far as a porn actors union or whatever goes,hell,Nevada regulates brothels and the like,it’s not impossible.

I’ve tried typing a response to this all day,and this still isn’t quite right,but I’d have to go into personal details and the like to make my points better and I can’t go there with people I don’t know.

I have no issues with sex,I like sex,it’s fun,feels good and can help people bond. But so much of that is lost in our culture,it’s a commodity,and used as a tool to cause hurt and damage to others. Ack,I’ll hush now.

Mikey, on behalf of the state of Washington, I agree to your terms. And to demonstrate my good will, I bring Starbucks to add to the list of cash cows.

angryoldbroad- no, I agree that the way sex is portayed in our culture is very stupid and degrading, in that it is completely non-relational. GGW is the epitome of teh stupid in our culture- it’s the equivalent of barging into a bathroom and taking pictures of people while they’re on the can. The act of going to the bathroom/taking off one’s top isn’t shameful, but the way it’s shot and portrayed is humiliating to the person it’s done to.

Also, who has been portraying Francis as a hero? I haven’t seen any articles praising him that I know of…

Francis is a hero to the idiots buying his tapes to the tune of millions a year,there seems to be a whole circle of people surrounding him who thinks what he’s doing is just dandy.(I have heard guys defend this crap,not in print perhaps,but I have heard it,more than once) I guess it’s the demand for GGW that bothers me,it’s not just stupid Brad,it’s hateful.

Welp, put it this way- the reason those guys are buying those tapes is because they’ll never be with a woman, and thus never reproduce. Feel better now? 😉

Nope,lol.

Mikey – as you are the new pot czar for the new nation of (Laidbackistan? Greenitalia?) can I offer my resume for crop ecologist? After all, we need to assure the public that the crop is grown in an organic and sustainable manner and that the quality is acceptable.

Oh hell, I’ll settle for joint spinner

Why don’t we just take BC, Washington, Oregon and Northern California
Seems to me that you’ll also be gaining control of the hop-growing regions. One or two beer drinkers will have something to say about losing control over strategic resources…

Amanda has been going on and on about this for days now. Her posts say she doesn’t agree with Garance, but her behavior is all, teh 21 year girlz need pertection from the misogynist pedophiles!!!!

Mikey, I second that idea, but can we throw in Hawaii? For somewhere to go in the rainy season.

Agreed, Lesley. Where I live, the rainy season ended . . . well, today. And it will start again, probably, oh, I’m guessing . . . Wednesday.

Puppy Pron!

That would be the nation of Cascadia , actually. I’m totally in. We also bring our Bigfoot and tree octopus mojo.

but there’s a far better case for getting rid of guns than controlling flashing 18-year-olds.

Maybe so, Bubba, but there’s no effective methodology for doing either, making the entire argument academic. It’s like deporting teh illegal aliens, or switching over to hydrogen fuel-cell autos. You can make a case for doing it, but it can’t actually be done…

I don’t buy any of that, but it’s for another thread. Let’s just continue agreeing that Joe Francis is awful.

Righteous Bubba said,

but there’s a far better case for getting rid of guns than controlling flashing 18-year-olds.

I don’t buy any of that, but it’s for another thread. Let’s just continue agreeing that Joe Francis is awful.

That’s it. As part of my duties, I’m going to have to shoot you and confiscate your porn.

That’s it. As part of my duties, I’m going to have to shoot you and confiscate your porn.

I’d be happier if you confiscated my guns and whacked off.

OK, but since I seem to have run unopposed for Booze Czar, I’d like to point out that prior to, during, and after said shooting and confiscation I’ll be passing out quaiches full of single malt. Or perhaps I’ll just be passing out. Who knows?

Just to totally rain on mikey’s parade, between the pot and the beer and the sun, this Brave New Country To Be Named Later is going to have a total workforce productivity factor somewhere between two sclerotic hamsters and a small circle of hacky sack players.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I’m totally with ya, but who’s gonna pay for the Twinkies is all I’m saying.

Way to be all Kevin about it, billy. Some of us here in Cascadia manage to work the equivalent of two or three jobs and still find time for an inebriated hackysack extravaganza come evening. In other words, the Twinkies are on me.

Inquiring minds are wondering whether Ganesh Bengal Cat has done things in the past which have since brought him shame or haunted his career…
http://web.archive.org/web/20001018012741/http://www.cat-scan.com/

billy pilgrim doesn’t know about BC’s booming pot industry where the hamsters are not only productive but unionized.

I’ll accept the new age of consent for appearances in porn if we can also raise the age of consent for joining the military to 65. If we’re not mature enough to understand the consequences of flashing for dollars at 18, we’re certainly not mature enough to consent to risking death, dismemberment and PTSD in military actions. Upon mature consideration, I think that many people 65 and older will decline to join the military unless the fate of their country is at stake, so yet another problem (stupid wars) can be solved.

I’ll accept the new age of consent for appearances in porn if

Oh you will, will you?

Hello. My deaf geriatric malamute came to work with me today and my workplace’s productivity shot up by 25%.

Sorry mikey and all your would be citizens, I called dibs. Quite clearly. And you may be experienced mikey, but this is the probably sole field in which I’m not going to automatically defer to you. Details are not forthcoming, but… yeah.
However, I will allow mikey to be head of the west coast offices. Hell, I’ll be happy not to deal with all those High Times readers.

“Dr Zen said,

Garance was a bit silly, but boys who think this:

“Porn is a skeezy business, but it’s honestly skeezy.�

are living on a different planet”

If you know people in the industry, then you can have an opinion, otherwise no.

When I managed a porn store, the granny movies were pretty popular. The 80 year old was pretty disgusting, though.

Sorry mikey and all your would be citizens, I called dibs. Quite clearly.

Well, on my flight home, I have a layover in Amsterdam, so I’ll volunteer to go and try to normalize diplomatic relations. I figure after sucking down a balloon bag from the vaporizer at De Kuil, we can pretty quickly get to work on hammering out the nature of our cross-continental …

Uh, cross-continental …

what were we talking about?

While we’re at it, anyone want to be the Recreational Drug Czar?

I dunno, I’m a bit leery. After all, if you just go by the name, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a hell of a lot of fun.

Damn. I hadn’t thought of that double-think aspect. The role of Non-Reproductive Sex Czar is probably reserved for celibates, and I would like to withdraw my self-nomination.

I dunno, I’m a bit leery.

Bwahahahaha.

Oh. You mean it wasn’t a pun on Timorthy Leary?

Sorry, sorry. Carry on. (Begins furiously washing self in embarrassment).

Timothy. Timothy, dammit.

Snflgshwmmflgh preview button…

Shorty Lesley: “What’s sarcasm?”

God I suck. Argh ruined a perfectly good joke.

SHORTER Lesley. Damn.

Shorter Luna: “What she said.”

Reading comprehension – the lost art!

All you would be Cascadians can sell geoducks to GGW buyers as well. They’ll love ’em! (But didn’t those dilrods @ Boeing move corporate HQ to Chicago? Well, teach ’em a lesson by seizing the means of production!)

Self-appointed Czar of All That Is Pleasurable (“Legal” or Not)

Completely random like that has nothing to do with the topic at hand:

http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

Err.link. I’m on a roll. I’ll stop now before I get my own name wrong.