Hell In A Randbasket
Kids today just don’t fear the fiery pits of Gehenna, warns ‘politically incorrect’ researcher-writer Bonnie Alba in an important Renew America don’t-think piece:
Fury of HELL denied
“I greatly fear that the denial of the eternity of future punishment is one wave of an incoming sea of infidelity.” Charles H. Spurgeon
If you read beyond the above quote, prepare to be challenged. Either that, or you will continue in your denial. In post-modern churches, you’re not likely to hear much about the eternal Hell that awaits all of us. Right up front, God does not want you to go to the Hell he has prepared for those who reject Him. (2 Peter 3:9)
God is like a psychotic health nut who runs a Taco Bell franchise — He wouldn’t eat a Gordita Supreme if you held a gun to His head, but He’ll shove it down YOUR throat if you ever so much as think He’s kind of a dick. And that goes double for anybody who’s at risk for diabetes.
Above: Charles H. Spurgeon tells his flock to go straight to Hell.
Up until the mid-19th century, warnings of Hell and God’s final judgment were very much part of the Gospel message preached from church pulpits. Then the age of enlightenment, so-called rational reasoning, entered into the minds of men.
Damn you, rational reasoning! If you hadn’t crept into our minds, surely we’d have invented a longer-lasting candle by now!
The post-modern humanistic, universalistic view of God as the God of Love ‘who saves everyone in the end’ has numbed the consciences of believers and unbelievers alike to the God of Creation and All his attributes.
The effect on unbelievers was the real rub — nothing could be more insidious than getting people who already didn’t believe in supernatural scaremongering to not believe in it all over again.
What most people know is that Jesus was ‘Love incarnate’ — kind and compassionate, who did miraculous things like loving, reaching out, healing, feeding thousands, teaching about God.
In reality, Jesus orchestrated drone attacks on Philistine villages, lobbied for offshore drilling and shot Peter in the face on a bow hunt.
Why would people need to attend church if God is going to save them anyway. If, there is no Hell. If, God is Love and nothing else. Why would people see a need to attend church if they don’t believe they’re not going to face any punishment for their sins and unbelief.
Also, why would people see a need to use proper punctuation to indicate an interrogative. If, there is no Spellcheck.
Jesus issued a strong warning to Jewish religious leaders, “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the damnation of Hell?” (Matthew 23:33)
Mel Gibson, call your office! Bonnie Alba’s got THE picture to revive your derailed career: ‘Snakes On A Plane 2: Heretical Hebrew-loo’.
There are many reasons given for decreases in church attendance. But I think this might be the one main reason: Christian ministers have forsaken the total Gospel as Jesus preached — Heaven and Hell. It is why the diluted message makes no impact on the hearts of human beings who are centered in themselves and their hearts hardened to stone. The conscience of a people are untouched by guilt and fear of God.
Truthfully, more preachers should jump out of bushes and yell ‘Boo!’ at random passers-by. That ought to scare them back into the pews.
Today’s God is more like a Genie in a lamp who grants the desires of our self-serving lives.
Which is why He was recently spotted wearing a bikini top and inexplicably shacking up with a young Larry Hagman. ‘Who Shot J.C.?’ etc.
Nothing funny about my joke: In a local coffee klatch, a guy asks ‘Who believes in Hell anymore?’ and one guy answers, ‘Those who are there.’
Nope, nothing funny at all.
god sounds like kind of an asshole.
It’s true – Jesus and Mary Magdalene were recently featured on ‘Hot Chicks with Douchebags’ …
God is psychotic. I came to that conclusion during catechism classes as a kid.
Jonathan Edwards, call your office.
I imagine the good Mr. Spurgeon would also inform us that sin also follows corporate law: you will burn in hell for the sins you commit, unless you incorporate, and then the sins fall upon the corporate entity, where different punishments apply depending on the state or commonwealth in which the sins were committed, subject to federal regulation of such sin, etc.
Today’s God is more like a Genie in a lamp who grants the desires of our self-serving lives.
You gotta rub Him the right way…
Jesus issued a strong warning to Jewish religious leaders, “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the damnation of Hell?” (Matthew 23:33)
Irony, go straight to Hell.
Sinners in the hands of an angry god. Jonathan Edwards, Massachusetts, 1741.
Also, God loves you so fucking much that He’s eternally on the edge of making you burn forever so you can understand His infinitely great love for you.
D. and T&U bringin’ the lulz early in the thread. *chuckling*
“Spurgeon also said, ‘It is shocking to reflect that a change in the weather has more effect on some men’s lives than the dread alternative of heaven or hell.'”
Well, according to you fucking nutballs I’m probably going to hell anyway, so I’d rather take up brain space to remember to bring my umbrella.
Why would people need to attend church if God is going to save them anyway. If, there is no Hell. If, God is Love and nothing else. Why would people see a need to attend church if they don’t believe they’re not going to face any punishment for their sins and unbelief.
Shhhhhh!!! Goddammit, Spurgeon, you’re giving away the racket!
As I’ve always said to the many faux Christians with whom I argue: if you’re only showing up because you’re afraid you’ll go to hell otherwise, that’s not “being saved”; that’s “being coerced”. You think an omniscient God isn’t going to see right through a cheap parlor trick like that?
I’ve also delighted in, many times, pointing out to the fundamentalists who attend churches that are All-Rapture-All-The-Time: why bother worrying about this? If you’re living the way Jesus told you to live, it’s not an issue for you anyway – so why isn’t your church focused on trying to help you do that instead of trying to scare the living shit out of you every Sunday? (and Wednesday…and Monday…and Friday…these fundie churches expect you to have your ass in a pew during every free moment)
Lest we forget, too, that wonderful way station that is Limbo.
1. There is naught but THE Heaven and THE Hell!
2. Wait, hang on a bit. Little too dichotomic dontcha think? Let’s insert a go-between where you can kinda hang out for a bit if we haven’t determined to which extreme you go.
3. Aw, nertz. Know what? Flock ain’t buying it. Too convoluted. Right out!
4. There is naught but THE Heaven and THE Hell!
5. ???
6. Profit. What? It’s religion. There’s ALWAYS profit. For someone.
‘It is shocking to reflect that a change in the weather has more effect on some men’s lives than the dread alternative of heaven or hell.’
Yea. I won’t need an umbrella in hell, but out walking today? I might.
Why would people need to attend church if God is going to save them anyway. If, there is no Hell. If, God is Love and nothing else. Why would people see a need to attend church if they don’t believe they’re not going to face any punishment for their sins and unbelief.
Um, to remind them that things will be better in the everafter, but that they might try, you know, to bring some of that to living today?
I think that message works better than SCARING PEOPLE TO DEATH!
My God is not a terrorist.
You think an omniscient God isn’t going to see right through a cheap parlor trick like that?
Also, too.
Jennifer,
Google “Frank Schaeffer”.
I think Google Books has his “Crazy For God” book for free. It’s a really funny look at evangelicalism, written by the son of one of its founders and a reformed nutcase Christian.
Chuck laments the end of the Inquisition, marked by the “so-called rational reasoning” in the mid 19th century? Ok.
Less time on rentboys and more time doing research please. Thank you.
In reality, Jesus orchestrated drone attacks on Philistine villages, lobbied for offshore drilling and shot Peter in the face on a bow hunt.
Jesus walked on the water, and swam on the land. He turned wheat into marijuana, and sugar into cocaine. Jesus was way cool.
Um, to remind them that things will be better in the everafter, but that they might try, you know, to bring some of that to living today?
Not to mention the fact that you can be part of a community with common values. Churches are just as much about community and family as they are about worship…unless you attend one of those huge fucking Wal-Mart style churches (aka, graft enterprises exchange money for the illusion of moral rectitude and self-righteousness).
Also, too.
It’s funny, in a sickening way, how everything Jesus said is the absolute antithesis of everything modern conservatives who claim to be his faithful servants say.
Hm. I’m not sure my brain is working correctly this morning.
Shorter Bonnie Alba: “There’s a New Testament? When did that happen, and what’s wrong with the Old one?”
Not to mention the fact that you can be part of a community with common values.
Yea, they’re like AA meetings only without the coffee but with a sip of wine and a cracker.
Jesus walked on the water, and swam on the land. He turned wheat into marijuana, and sugar into cocaine. Jesus was way cool.
He was also a light brown haired, blue eyed white guy. Like me.
Yea, they’re like AA meetings only without the coffee but with a sip of wine and a cracker.
No wine where I went to church, but we always had coffee and lemonade after service and before Sunday school. Once a month was cookie Sunday!
Hm. I’m not sure my brain is working correctly this morning.
Who cares? It’s FRIDAY!
He was also a light brown haired, blue eyed white guy. Like me.
And he spoke English and rode a dinosaur.
No wine where I went to church
For some reason, we always had communion, every Sunday.
I think the minister was a drunk.
‘Who believes in Hell anymore?’
I’ve been married…
fundamentalists who attend churches that are All-Rapture-All-The-Time:
Back when I was in college, there was a nearby church with a billboard that said “Revivals every night until Jesus comes back” Well, I had the Jesus look going, or at least how Jesus would have wanted to look if he had been born a proper Anglo, so we always wanted to get me a robe and sandals and stigmata and walk in the front door one night and go “OK, OK, I’m back! Would you people please go home and relax now?”
It would have got me killed, but it would have been hillarious. Also, I suspect my friends just wanted to get me killed… not to mention inflict stigmata wounds.
For some reason, we always had communion, every Sunday.
So did we, but the “wine” was grape juice. Fucking teetotalling Protestants.
And he spoke English and rode a dinosaur.
He also kills a kitten when I masturbate, meaning my confirmed kill count rivals that of Hitler and Stalin.
‘Who believes in Hell anymore?’
I’ve been married…
Oh man, the Win is strong with this one.
Eternal torment for those who disagree with you. What’s not to like?
He also kills a kitten when I masturbate, meaning my confirmed kill count rivals that of Hitler and Stalin.
Just when you masturbate, though, right? I am NOT a kitten-murderer.
He also kills a kitten when I masturbate
Maybe this is why there are no cats in Chinatown.
Should there be a hyphen there? See what I mean?
And I still have to help kids make pet rocks at the library tomorrow.
Yeah, I don’t get it, either.
And I still have to help kids make pet rocks at the library tomorrow
Masturbation kills kittens, but bredding rocks? No problem!
bredding rocks
Do you use flour or cornstarch?
Just when you masturbate, though, right? I am NOT a kitten-murderer.
No, I was told that you’re not far behind me in the standings.
No, I was told that you’re not far behind me in the standings.
Either you have a direct line to God or you know someone very, very creepy…
Maybe this is why there are no cats in Chinatown.
I also like Kung Pao “chicken”. So I can’t say for sure.
That’s not why.
Annnnnnyway, isn’t this basically what the GOP decided back in, oh, ’bout 1979 or so?
It’s much more profitable and successful to scare the living shit out of people — especially if you can get them to be afraid of things that don’t actually exist. That way, they can never prove you wrong since they can’t prove it doesn’t exist.
Or, um, something. That made a lot more sense before I typed it.
Maybe this is why there are no cats in Chinatown.
That’s not why.
What? Chinese don’t masturbate???
bredding rocks
Do you use flour or cornstarch?
Please. Stone dust.
Either you have a direct line to God or you know someone very, very creepy…
There’s a giant leader board that comes to me in my dreams. I can see all of the people I know, acquaintances and sadlynaughts (we’re owning the whole division). You know, I’d be good at making up one of these religions. I’m gonna get a garbage bag full of mushrooms and design my own religion. Mine will be fun–none of this stupid protestant austerity shit or catholic guilt. No hating on teh gayz, and no vote coaching for stupid congregation members. And nudity will be encouraged.
Annnnnnyway, isn’t this basically what the GOP decided back in, oh, ’bout 1979 or so?
Well, they took a look at how successful it’s been for Christendom over the last 2000 years and stole the playbook.
“And nudity will be encouraged”
Nudity occurs in my house on a daily basis.
total gospel
Sheesh. Like fat and salt, they put annihilation fantasies into everything.
Or, um, something. That made a lot more sense before I typed it.
It made perfect sense. It’s quite a racket. I’m really shocked that the mafia hasn’t started their own churches. They could totally wipe out the existing mob that runs them–they’re all a bunch of pussies anyway.
Please. Stone dust.
Ooooooh, look at the fooooodie!
Well, they took a look at how successful it’s been for Christendom over the last 2000 years and stole the playbook.
Eh, authoritarianism is as old as humanity itself.
Nudity occurs in my house on a daily basis.
Not mine. We’re Never-nudes.
Curse that 19th century post-modernism!
Nudity occurs in my house on a daily basis.
I have a Thursday night gospel spanking session.
Please. Stone dust.
Which type?
Sandstone is gritty. Granite is a bit tough.
Limestone is the old standard but those in the southwest use turquoise.
If we aren’t sinners then Jesus wasted his time. Sin 4 Jesus everybody!
Why would people need to attend church if God is going to save them anyway.
You know, as an atheist, I think a God who really loved everyone including the most unlovable, and wasn’t cruel and illogical enough to punish infinitely for finite crimes, might actually be worth worshiping, were he to exist, and in that case people wouldn’t “need” to attend church, they’d want to.
God is blonde, blue-eyed, and speaks in thees and thous.
And he hangs out with an awesome horsey.
“TruculentandUnreliable said,
July 16, 2010 at 17:27
Nudity occurs in my house on a daily basis.
Not mine. We’re Never-nudes.”
Hope you have lots of cut-offs.
Please. Stone dust.
Which type?
Schist. We’re full of it here in New York.
Hope you have lots of cut-offs.
Funny, that’s what I said just before she slammed the door in my face before calling the cops.
Sin 4 Jesus everybody!
I’m trying! But it’s hard typing with one hand!
“Funny, that’s what I said just before she slammed the door in my face before calling the cops.”
Sounds like something she needs to share at our next meeting.
Hope nothing was cut off.
Sounds like something she needs to share at our next meeting.
Only if there’s gin.
Sin 4 Jesus everybody!
God is my co-sin.
You know, as an atheist, I think
It’s good just at that.
Also: sin 4 Jesus = ~-0.76 Jesus. NOT MUCH JESUS.
I have a Thursday night gospel spanking session.
I went to the Sunday night gospel drag show at this Atlanta gay bar once. Best time I ever had listening to church music.
It’s good just at that.
That may be the best thing that I’ve seen since yesterday.
Atheists are often very grumpy and bitter
OMG it’s SO TRUE!
Classic projection. It’s Christian fundies who are always butthurt about something.
“Bonnie Alba”? C’mon, Dana Carvey. You aren’t fooling anyone.
I am very nice to all children, by they way, even the self-righteous little shits who stare me down in Target and look like they belong in Village of the Damned.
I went looking for something a little more light in the RA neighborhood and found this delightful passage from Lisa Fabrizio:
All the conservative tropes are there — the hatred of soccer, the belief that people force you to watch television, the love of the imaginary magical world of the 1950s (yes, all baseball players were educated gentlemen back then), the veiled racism, attacking new-fangled things (the HRD) that have been around for over two decades, criticizing people for their language skills when your own writing shows you need to spend the summer with a dictionary and grammar guide. Renew America is a slot machine of stupidity that always pays out.
Sin 4 Jesus everybody!
God is my co-sin.
There you go, off on a tangent.
Every time I read a whinger going on about religion I think about the unarguably most moral, most Christian President of the last century and how he is (arguably) the most despised by them. I enjoy the hell out of it.
“Classic projection. It’s Christian fundies who are always butthurt about something”
They just have to be persecuted because it is the one Beatitude that they can achieve without, you know, giving up anything.
the pervious iteration of which was a mildly entertaining TV show from the late 1950?s that is remarkable today for the gentlemanly conduct of the players and their ability to speak in complete sentences.
1) “Pervious”? I know Ted Klusezewski was in it, but come ON!
2) He musta missed the one with Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle. One slurred and the other was drunk.
Who? Carter or Obambi?
There you go, off on a tangent.
STOP MAKING FUN OF TRIG!!!
They just have to be persecuted because it is the one Beatitude that they can achieve without, you know, giving up anything.
We already lost John and George. I’m not giving up anymore Beatletudes without a fight, dammit!
STOP MAKING FUN OF TRIG!!!
*LOUD GOLF APPLAUSE*
Oh, VERY nicely played, sir!
Martini?
Who? Carter or Obambi?
I thought he meant Woodrow Wilson, who was an actual minister.
The pervious edition was MUCH more fun.
Martini?
Thank you, I think I will.
Renew America is a slot machine of stupidity that always pays out.
But the payout is in buckets of poo
“I greatly fear that the denial of the eternity of future punishment is one wave of an incoming sea of infidelity.” Charles H. Spurgeon
This line is so great because it reveals so much from people who love double meanings and dogwhistles. He “fears” it in the sense that it’s going to happen, and all you faithless will burn!.
“We already lost John and George. I’m not giving up anymore Beatletudes without a fight, dammit!”
And I’m not giving up my jaunty haircut!!
Renew America is a slot machine of stupidity that always pays out.
STOP FEEDING IT QUARTERS!
Froley said,
July 16, 2010 at 17:44
Now I’m just confused.
But wasn’t Wilson a racist?
“We already lost John and George. I’m not giving up anymore Beatletudes without a fight, dammit!”
I hate how judgemental I get about my own work.
This works better with BeatleDudes…
But wasn’t Wilson a racist?
A racist Democrat of the early twentieth century…whoda thunk?
I like the Beatletudes better myself.
From the Sermon on the Tonight show:
Blessed are the Liverpudlian for they make songs that are catchy and danceable
And I still have to help kids make pet rocks at the library tomorrow.
That has got to be the easiest craft project ever.
“Here’s a rock. Class dismissed!”
“We already lost John and George. I’m not giving up anymore Beatletudes without a fight, dammit!”
Yeah. Nowadays, a Beatitudes reunion would be like a Beatitudes tribute concert.
“Here’s a rock. Class dismissed!”
YEAH! Let ’em learn about petting rocks on the street, where we did!
That has got to be the easiest craft project ever.
Right? WTF?
Ooh, you can make one out of grass, too!
Hey, there’s an ice cream making program that day, too…why didn’t I get to help with that one?
And I still have to help kids make pet rocks at the library tomorrow.
Make sure you stick to the more kid friendly varieties. Marble is good, Sandstone is good, Flint is pretty high strung, Granite is friendly and playful but doesn’t know it own strength, so you really have to watch it around kids.
“We already lost John and George. I’m not giving up anymore Beatletudes without a fight, dammit!”
You just know Ringo is going to live forever.
Ooh, you can make one out of grass, too!
I get stoned on grass too.
HEAVEN OR HELL
LET’S ROCK
Eh, authoritarianism is as old as humanity itself.
It is, but here in US AMERICA, we got away from the whole peasant class with our uppity unions and satanic graduated tax system, and home ownership and credit. Eventually the right wingers figured out that independent thought, upward mobility for the bourgeoisie and poor classes, and ownership in anything was killing their profits. What better way to get back in their pockets than with superstition and mysticism? All authoritarianism stems from one or both of those things.
You just know Ringo is going to live forever.
There’s a school of thought that says Ringo is a zombie.
Think about it: He was George’s best friend and the cover story is that Harrison died of brain cancer?
Eventually the right wingers figured out that independent thought, upward mobility for the bourgeoisie and poor classes, and ownership in anything was killing their profits. What better way to get back in their pockets than with superstition and mysticism? All authoritarianism stems from one or both of those things.
Gotcha. Yeah, the Enlightenment and modernism were totally a bitch for the oligarchs, no?
Oh, and Moozilums got to be less medieval, right?
Ringo ate George’s brain?
Gotcha. Yeah, the Enlightenment and modernism were totally a bitch for the oligarchs, no?
Endless source of butthurt and temper tantrums. That’s why they pine away for the “good old days” like any future shocked crybaby bitch is prone to do.
Hope you have lots of cut-offs.
Well I know the Catholics and the Jews do.
*rimshot*
That’s why they pine away for the “good old days” like any future shocked crybaby bitch is prone to do.
Seriously. Its people like this that make it hard to be respected as a future shocked crybaby bitch.
“Hope you have lots of cut-offs.
Well I know the Catholics and the Jews do.
*rimshot*”
Why did God want all of those foreskins and what did he do with them?
Why did God want all of those foreskins and what did he do with them?
Make wallets. Where do you think expandable luggage came from?
Wingnuts would be shocked to know how much they share in common with Osama Bin Laden.
All of this talk of circumcision is making me very, very uncomfortable. ‘Nam-like flashbacks. Trigger warning, please people!
Seriously. Its people like this that make it hard to be respected as a future shocked crybaby bitch.
Well, when your intended audience knows so little about history (Enlightenment in the mid 19th century?), it’s not so hard to be respected. It seems strange that anyone could not understand that our branched government and Bill of Rights are a DIRECT product of the Enlightenment.
Why did God want all of those foreskins and what did he do with them?
I thought he used them for crafts since macaroni is so overdone.
Why did God want all of those foreskins and what did he do with them?
Where do you think fried “calamari” comes from?
“tsam said,
July 16, 2010 at 18:41
Wingnuts would be shocked to know how much they share in common with Osama Bin Laden.”
Ya know, they’d take great umbrage at that but the fact is–Garyfied!–it’s true
I thought he used them for crafts since macaroni is so overdone.
Un dente?
Also, foreskin and overdone pasta probably have a similar flacidity
Actually, it goes further than the governmental system. The Enlightenment debunked the idea of rule by divine right, which paved the way for the Declaration of Independence. It wasn’t religious thought that brought us here, it was rational thought.
“Whale Chowder said,
July 16, 2010 at 18:49
Why did God want all of those foreskins and what did he do with them?
Where do you think fried “calamari” comes from?”
With enough breading and frying I betcha they taste the same.
“With enough breading and frying I betcha they taste the same”
I would add something about “sauce,” but someone might get the wrong idea.
With enough breading and frying I betcha they taste the same.
I’ve heard that about foreskin; like squid, you either cook it for 2 minutes or two hours.
YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.
Ya know, they’d take great umbrage at that but the fact is–Garyfied!–it’s true
As any intellectually dishonest, sanctimonious fucking jackass would do. IOKIYAR. At it’s worst, it justifies having mistresses and demanding faithfulness of women.
I’ve heard that about foreskin; like squid, you either cook it for 2 minutes or two hours.
Also: clean them out really well, you never know what you’re going to find in there.
Gotta love the Wonkette
I bought some calamari today. Just for kicks and grins. More and more I’m regretting that.
Nobody talks about how an all-forgiving, all-loving deity will throw you into a torture pit for all eternity, and this makes me sad.
Tangentially related…no, it’s really not that tangential…um, did you know that when the military confiscates captured Taliban computers there’s tons of PORN on it?
“Alright, if you’re God, reveal your Godhead.”
zzzzzzzzzzppppp
“No, no. No. No.”
(~4:34)
Got about as prepared as I’ll ever be … but said challenge was not forthcoming. Failed guilt-tripping aplenty & exposition of textbook neurosis, yes – challenge, no. Also, my access to & apprehension of physical reality is not a perfidious act of “denial,” much like my access to oxygen does not mean I despise anaerobic bacteria … unless I’m also in “denial” about the wonders of healing via crystals, Yogic Flying, channelling ancient warriors, ad nauseam.
What turns me off about mysticism is that it’s the product of other smelly hairy critters just like me – & we’re actually kind of predictable when it comes to making crazy shit up to freak each other out.
Fire, thunder, spot-on predictions from talking shrubberies, making the dead walk, making the sun stand still in the sky, cats turning into dogs, evil overlords battling heroic messiah-dudes, flying scorpions with boobies, multi-headed Mecha-Demons, yadda yadda yadda. All impossible as hell … & all stuff a bright nine-year-old could come up with on a dare.
Reality?
Don’t even get me started. Reality is just TOTALLY FUCKING WILD. Salvador Dali & Frank Zappa’s theoretical love-child would be a sleeping kitten in comparison in terms of sheer gratuitous manifold weirdness. The more I find out about it, the weirder it gets … & for a dedicated afficionado of the bizarre, that is some serious Cream Of Awesome Soup right there.
I’m pretty sure my mother believes in Hell. I’m sure she did when I was a kid, and she still speaks of people having to explain their actions to the Lord when they die. I suspect she’s more into the C.S. Lewis separation-from-God version and less the Dante’s-fire-and-brimstone version.
The thing is, she speaks of it like she’s sad when people go to Hell, like it’s the worst tragedy, and that she has a duty to try to help them (or me, as the case may be) live right and NOT go there.
The way American conservatives talk about it, they just LOVE it when other people go to Hell. They think it’s jim-dandy. Nothing better than imagining your enemies suffering an eternity of torment because they didn’t listen to you. It’s a cliche for a reason: Puritanism is the fear that somewhere, somebody might be having a good time.
Seriously, though, I won’t be surprised if we start to see more this kind of right-wing whinging. See, the “real Jesus would be a liberal” arguments are pretty effective. I mean, in getting your point across, not in changing wingnut minds. So I can understand why they’d now want to remind everyone how mean and judgmental god is.
You will see more of this kind of thing. Bookmark it, libs.
Gotta love a thread that works in Beta Ray Bill. Cultcha – we haz it.
Jesus walked on the water, and swam on the land. He turned wheat into marijuana, and sugar into cocaine. Jesus was way cool.
Gimme that old time religion!
What songs are on Jesus’ iPod? He has an iPod, right? Not a Zune?
So I can understand why they’d now want to remind everyone how mean and judgmental god is.
“The Kid is all right, nice, easygoing, fun to have around, a little bread, a little Manischewitz, he’s a good boy. The Old Man, though, oy gevalt, you never saw such craziness! Love you / hate you / love you / hate you – such a mashugana you never saw you did!”
“Tangentially related…no, it’s really not that tangential…um, did you know that when the military confiscates captured Taliban computers there’s tons of PORN on it?”
Research! I was just researching the on-line habits of Christians! You know, we must know all about our enemies!
The term “squiddah” on the Cape refers to lonely squid fishermen who, at sea for some time, take their pleasure where they can, shall we say.
They’re not known for tossing the used ones overboard. See first line, above.
Damn it. Foreskin holocaust humor and I was out at lunch.
Today’s God is more like a Genie in a lamp who grants the desires of our self-serving lives.
Did any of you ever see that episode of I Dream Of Jesus where Jesus turned Major Nelson’s boss into a monkey? Classic.
Tangentially related…no, it’s really not that tangential…um, did you know that when the military confiscates captured Taliban computers there’s tons of PORN on it?
No, I didn’t know that, but it does fall right in line with the phenomenon that showed that statistically, the largest consumers of pornography in America live in the Bible Belt. That’s hilarious. It’s not so tangential, it is the embodiment of absolute, shameless hypocrisy and depravity. It also gives a look into the mentality of the mystical and zealous, revealing it for the complete bullshit that it is.
“Today’s God is more like a Genie in a lamp who grants the desires of our self-serving lives”
Is anyone else picturing Spurgeon rubbing a lamp feverishly?
Is anyone else picturing Spurgeon rubbing a lamp feverishly?
That’s no lamp!
Rubbing something. And now I’ll thank you to remove that thought from my brain.
Is anyone else picturing Spurgeon rubbing a lamp feverishly?
And then pink smoke, and Jesus pops out, does that little head-nod thing and POOF, giant sammich.
Exactly. And it explains why so many wingnuts are diaper-wearing whore-mongers with wide stances and a yen for meth.
AWESOME.
Shorter John Hinderaker:
Today’s God is more like a Genie in a lamp who grants the desires of our self-serving lives.
Oddly, I believe it was Calvin who set forth the basis for the “how rich you are is an indication of how much God loves you” thing that we today call the Prosperity Gospel. And he was a pretty fire and brimstony guy, that Calvin.
Such a thing happened at the 2008 Fanime Convention in San Jose.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=50955080111&v=wall
http://thequietrage.blogspot.com/2009/05/fanime-san-jose-california.html
B4 and I are trying out our new Synchronized Posting routine. You like?
mark f said,
July 16, 2010 at 19:28
Most comprehensive Shorter ever. Well done.
All the conservative tropes are there — the hatred of soccer,
There is a connection with soccer and hell.
B4 and I are trying out our new Synchronized Posting routine. You like?
Only if you’re grinning madly and wearing nose plugs.
Gimme that old time religion!
Careful what you wish for.
Well I know the Catholics and the Jews do.
Objection. Raised a Mary-worshipper, can testify that we do not have the snip-snip obligation. Maybe we did back in the day.
the girl behind the counter couldn’t tell us who Ulysses Grant was
Those liberal public schools are so awful, she probably thought the Civil War was about slavery, too. Quick! Somebody call the Texas Bullshit Textbook Commission!
the girl behind the counter couldn’t tell us who Ulysses Grant was
He’s the dude with comely and shapely thighs who sailed the
wineblood-dark seas.Chris said,
July 16, 2010 at 19:28 (kill)
Oddly, I believe it was Calvin who set forth the basis for the “how rich you are is an indication of how much God loves you” thing that we today call the Prosperity Gospel. And he was a pretty fire and brimstony guy, that Calvin.
Aha! THAT ‘s what must have been in the last panel! The dog chewed the crap out of the paper that day so i never got to read it.
I once organized a party to mark the Feast of the Holy Circumcision (January 1), and served cocktail weenies with little calimari foreskins. They were quite popular.
The thing is, she speaks of it like she’s sad when people go to Hell, like it’s the worst tragedy, and that she has a duty to try to help them (or me, as the case may be) live right and NOT go there.
The way American conservatives talk about it, they just LOVE it when other people go to Hell.
I think that’s more of a personality difference between individual conservative Christians. I was pretty close to a fundie church for my first two years of college and most of the people in it were more like your mother. But a few, like my college roommate (and I believe the pastor himself), I’m pretty sure were gleeful at the prospect of all those Mary worshippers, Mohammed worshippers and Darwin worshippers going to hell.
Wingnuts would be shocked to know how much they share in common with Osama Bin Laden.
Oh, they are. But they know its all the liberals fault for making them both that way.
You will see more of this kind of thing. Bookmark it, libs.
As the middle class degenerates into poverty, people will feel more and more out of control of their lives, or their destinies in this nation. That’s when the religious zealotry goes to 11.
Now, even the intertoobs have turned on
HTML fail:
http://wonkette.com/416704/captcha-gods-playing-cruel-joke-on-sarah-palin
Most comprehensive Shorter ever. Well done.
Thanks! Let me see if that’s indicative of momentum.
Shorter Power Line, 07/16/2010:
Of course, the Shiela Jackson Lee video is pretty bad. I’m just going to assume she meant to talk about Korea.
Yet they won’t understand they (partly) brought it upon themselves.
Jim, that was awesome. May we all be eaten first.
He’s the dude with comely and shapely thighs who sailed the wine blood-dark seas.
Yeah, I read about him. Did you know it took him like seven years to sail home after the siege of Richmond?
Wingnuts would be shocked to know how much they share in common with Osama Bin Laden.
No they wouldn’t. Have you ever seen those videos of crazy preachers talking about how much they envy the imams for having so many believing followers ready to kill themselves for their god (the suicide bombers)?
Yeah, I read about him. Did you know it took him like seven years to sail home after the siege of Richmond?
Just to find out that Mrs. Grant was entertaining William Seward as a suitor.
As a Razorback fan, I will always remember Ulysses for the half-court shot that beat Louisville in the NCAAs in 1981.
As a Razorback fan
I, too, enjoy pork and bacon products.
Yet they won’t understand they (partly) brought it upon themselves.
No, they won’t. In fact the worse it gets, the more they push for the same old bullshit that ruined everything in the first place.
No they wouldn’t. Have you ever seen those videos of crazy preachers talking about how much they envy the imams for having so many believing followers ready to kill themselves for their god (the suicide bombers)?
No, but it I felt absolutely no shock in reading this. Does it seem like we’re doomed as race sometimes? It seems like a miracle we’ve made it this long.
“Only if you’re grinning madly and wearing nose plugs.”
Omg. N_B is surveilling my office.
tsam, you are almost ad fatalistic as my Mom and me when we talk about this stuff. We should conference call you if one day we all feel like slitting our wrists.
Omg. N_B is surveilling my office.
He must have put in his cameras after I put in mine. I mean, I saw Smut Clyde’s, B^4’s, and Actor212’s when I put in mine, but I didn’t notice his.
tsam, you are almost ad fatalistic as my Mom and me when we talk about this stuff. We should conference call you if one day we all feel like slitting our wrists.
**huff, huff….**
too….late….GBCW
Omg. N_B is surveilling my office.
Hey babe…wanna see my spirit level?
Found it. It was in the Jesus Camp movie (never could bring myself to watch it but read the IMDb memorable quotes);
Uh yeah…
“Omg. N_B is surveilling my office.
He must have put in his cameras after I put in mine. I mean, I saw Smut Clyde’s, B^4?s, and Actor212?s when I put in mine, but I didn’t notice his.”
*chortle*
tsam, you ok with this?
Hey babe…wanna see my spirit level?
Doesn’t the tool fall through their spectral hands?
“GBCW”
I am not aware.
They can look all they want. I get the good stuff, don’t I?
Does it seem like we’re doomed as race sometimes?
Not over this. Because overall, there are so few people who actually, passionately believe in this stuff.
Like I said on an earlier thread; most conservatives are “Christian” which means they take their traditional families to services every Sunday morning, participate in church activities all Sunday afternoon, then get together over beers in the evening and talk about how concerned they are that the President’s a Muslim. It’s important to them to be part of the Christian Group, but as a label, not as a set of values.
Doesn’t the tool fall through their spectral hands?
And into their ectoplasmic laps! [mad laughter]
GoodBye Cruel World.
Anagram from the psychotic legions at Kos. “Another GBCW diary”…
That place has turned into concern troll central. I can’t even read the comments anymore, let alone get involved in the discussions.
“July 16, 2010 at 20:06
They can look all they want. I get the good stuff, don’t I”
Indeed.
Found it. It was in the Jesus Camp movie (never could bring myself to watch it
That damn thing was the scariest movie I’ve ever seen.
“July 16, 2010 at 20:07
GoodBye Cruel World.
Anagram from the psychotic legions at Kos. “Another GBCW diary”…
That place has turned into concern troll central. I can’t even read the comments anymore, let alone get involved in the discussions.”
Omg,tell me about it. Only thing worth reading is hatemailpalooza.
Not over this. Because overall, there are so few people who actually, passionately believe in this stuff.
It’s not so much who believes it passionately, but the amount of power they wield.
When Bush Jr. claimed that he took orders to invade Iraq from a “higher power”, that sent chills down my spine as it should for anyone who isn’t a complete fucking moron. When your creepy neighbor kills somebody and says “God told me to do it”, you think “INSANE, LOCK HIM UP”. Why didn’t we say that about the guy who said God told him to kill at least 100,000 people?
That place has turned into[…]
Not to give y’all a big head but this is the only place I’ll read all of the comments in a multi-hundred comment post.
Yeah, that good.
Why did God want all of those foreskins and what did he do with them?
Leather coats for His pet rocks.
GBCW until this acronym was explained I figured it was another hot club like CBGB that I never heard about until 10 years past when it mattered.
The fact is, Hitler and Stalin redistributed income and killed millions of people, and they were of The Left. Obama is doing the same, and the treasonis traiters and fifth colum within USA are sapping our resolve with class warfare.
The fact is, Hitler and Stalin redistributed income and killed millions of people, and they were of The Left.
They were corporatocrasists, which makes them the Dick Cheney of the mid-20th Century.
Not to give y’all a big head
Damn. Now I have to zip up.
“Why didn’t we say that about the guy who said God told him to kill at least 100,000 people?”
Well, for one thing, he had the greatest military the world has ever known at his disposal………..
“Not to give y’all a big head”
Too late! We all have boners now.
Also, on the flip side of this topic, (and this may be based on a comment I read here at Sadly, No!) I read a theory a whlie back somewhere that if these religious types weren’t all so sure that they had this buetiful paradise in heaven to look forward to when they die they just might take better care of the planet they’ve got to live on.
I once organized a party to mark the Feast of the Holy Circumcision (January 1), and served cocktail weenies with little calimari foreskins. They were quite popular.
Dude, I’m notorious citywide.
Where was my fucking invite????
It’s not so much who believes it passionately, but the amount of power they wield.
But the passionate, true believers are never the ones who actually wield the power. Bush may have been a con artist and he may have been a true believer, but either way, he wasn’t in charge – Cheney and the rest neocons, who don’t give a toss about God, were. Palin would be the same. Huckabee wouldn’t, but he doesn’t have the votes (in no small part because the Republican elite doesn’t like him, and the media they control tells the base not to either).
Dammit, N_B.
77–lulz
Gary, tu fais chier.
the treasonis traiters and fifth colum within USA are sapping our resolve with class warfare.
Not only that, they are corrupting our bodily fluids.
have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
It’s incredibly obvious, isn’t it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That’s the way your hard-core Commie works.
Probably been said before, but it was John the Baptist who said the brood of vipers thing. Bible fail!
I read a theory a whlie back somewhere that if these religious types weren’t all so sure that they had this buetiful paradise in heaven to look forward to when they die they just might take better care of the planet they’ve got to live on.
That should not be a theory. I’ve read actual statements from Rapturists that state there’s no need to be conservationists since only the damned will remain after the rapture
The funny thing is that Bonnie Alba thinks she is being persuasive.
We all have boners now.
*glancing at your panties*
Small, but effective.
Sorry about that, Actor212. Entertainment was provided by a friend of ours who is trying to grow his foreskin back.
Where was my fucking invite????
At the time, he probably didn’t know you swung that way.
Or no, you heathens didn’t realize that.
Also, you can’t blame the Old Testament for the whole Fire and Brimstone thing. Fact, most of our image of Hell comes from Dante and his immortal fanfic.
Raised a Mary-worshipper, can testify that we do not have the snip-snip obligation.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Um, I mean…nevermind.
Breaking:
Cat fight between Romney and Palin camps over who is dumber.
Developing………..
Probably been said before, but it was John the Baptist who said the brood of vipers thing. Bible fail!
Believe it or don’t, they both did, according to whomever wrote it. Of course, the reference is to religious teachers in both accounts, you’d think she’d pick up on that. I guess she’s found it easier to purse her lips and look primly around at the other people they OBVIOUSLY meant.
Breaking:
actor admits he has a small boner.
Entertainment was provided by a friend of ours who is trying to grow his foreskin back.
He can borrow mine!
TMI?
actor admits he has a small boner.
Small. Like the Taj Mahal is a small erection for a woman.
A dead woman.
A dead woman.
*packing trunk*
*packing trunk*
Um, what are you *putting* in that trunk?
Not to give y’all a big head but this is the only place I’ll read all of the comments in a multi-hundred comment post.
me too. But I’m just keeping track of the zombie-haters.
I think zombies are awesome. And great in bed.
me too. But I’m just keeping track of the zombie-haters.
First against the wall, bitches!
Um, what are you *putting* in that trunk?
You think I’m sticking around to take the rap because zrm killed some Gary Condit intern, you’re crazy! I’m taking a cruise to new England!
I think zombies are awesome. And great in bed
They eat well.
They are great at everything. Really. I can’t say enough good things about them.
I think zombies are awesome. And great in bed.
Word to the wise: epoxy.
Looks like Spurgeon wasn’t too afraid of hell to live the good life off of his congregants. $2000 suit and fatty-fat-fat*.
*-think Leo Bloom
They are great at everything
Asskisser
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Um, I mean…nevermind.
Whoa–that was close
Maybe after dinner and drinks.
Why would people need to attend church if God is going to save them anyway. If, there is no Hell. If, God is Love and nothing else. Why would people see a need to attend church if they don’t believe they’re not going to face any punishment for their sins and unbelief.
That’s right, getting rid of Hell means damaging the church franchise, which has made so much money for us for so long. This ‘touchy-feely’ church is a threat to our business model! We would all have to get jobs and stop robbing credulous old ladies!!
If they are so concerned about Hell and eternal damnation, perhaps they might want to consider this:
41″Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44″They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45″He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46″Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
(Matthew 25:41-46)
DrDick,
From your keyboard to Jesus’ ears.
Maybe after dinner and drinks.
And I had to give you roofies….
NPR Science Friday: Climategate = bullshit (from the Captain Obvious journal of the No Shit, Sherlock archive). I kinda hoped the would pull one of the wingnut bloggers on there to get his bag smashed by a real scientist, but sadly, no.
More like from his lips to my keyboard. I am not a believer of any sort, but I have to say that the teachings of the Rabbi Yeshua were among the influences on my becoming a socialist. Unlike most of the conservatards, I have actually read the Bible, in its entirety and not just selected passages.
DrDick said,
July 16, 2010 at 21:29
I’ve been trying that line on wingnuts for a long time now. I’m not religious, really, but I believe VERY strongly in that ideal–that you serve some higher purpose with unconditional charity and service. Wingnuts just wants they dividends, muthafuckas. IOW, that’s one of the parts of the Bible that they choose to ignore–at their peril, I would hope.
omg. *sides hurting*
Unlike most of the conservatards, I have actually read the Bible
This is what annoys me most about the whole “anti-Christian” thread I keep running into.
If you read, I mean really read, Jesus’s teachings, you’d be a lefty in a heartbeat.
As long as they’re roofies and not troofies. Those things will fuck you up.
omg. *sides hurting*
What’s her name? Mowgli Obama?
Well presumably Jeebus already knows what he said.
He also said something to the effect that “if you don’t believe what I’m telling you about me and my dad, you won’t get into heaven” which I find a little more difficult to accept. Thoughtcrime, bitches.
He also said something to the effect that “if you don’t believe what I’m telling you about me and my dad, you won’t get into heaven”
Yea. Except that was about “doing unto others” and shit. You know, the crap you already do….
If you read, I mean really read, Jesus’s teachings, you’d be a lefty in a heartbeat.
And whether you believe the religion, the Gospels provide a damn good way to live your life. I try to follow it myself, despite not being very committed to the whole God thing.
This is what annoys me most about the whole “anti-Christian” thread I keep running into.
It is quite clear that the conservative and Republican positions on pretty much every issue are in reality literally anti-Christian.
The Rabbi Yeshua preached pacifism, renunciation of the world, and communalism. He would have reacted to capitalism as he did to the money changers in the temple.
Glad you aired that.
He would have reacted to capitalism as he did to the money changers in the temple.
IMO, if he had known about democracy, he would have insisted there be a place for governmental welfare programs and money for the poor.
In His day and age, government was run to enrich the ruling family. Look at Rome. Look at Herod’s Jerusalem.
If He had an inkling about freedom and individual rights, He would have demanded that government of the people, by the people and for the people by FOR the people, first and foremost.
Funny that an omniscient God missed that…
Speaking of unChristian Christians, the Mormon Church, you know, the “True, Reformed Church” with its reformed Aaronic priesthood (uh, whatever) has been telling its members–many who paid 10% pre-tax tithes faithfully for years–that they shouldn’t look to the billionaire Morg for assistance during these economically tough times.
Meanwhile, the Profits are sinking $3 Billion, maybe more into a fancy mall within site of the SLC Temple.
Now what is amusing is people saying “what did I pay tithes for”? as if Mormon tithes are something like union dues (which, at least in my union, the union local can get back from the international in certain situations, or which the individual might get back in the form of assistance during a strike or similar circustance).
Hello? The Morg is not a democracy.
In His day and age, government was run to enrich the ruling family. Look at Rome.
I just did. And while Nero was widely reviled for being perceived as doing just this, it was far worse under the renaissance popes than during the time of the early emperors.
For one thing the different ruling families would war bitterly trying to get the next popedom and combine their lands with papal lands.
In this situation, having regnal succession would actually look like a reform. Lol.
regnal? I guess I mean kingly.
eh, whatever.
And while Nero was widely reviled for being perceived as doing just this, it was far worse under the renaissance popes than during the time of the early emperors.
Yea, but He was dead already, so we can’t exactly blame Him for that, can we?
The Rabbi Yeshua preached pacifism, renunciation of the world, and communalism. He would have reacted to capitalism as he did to the money changers in the temple.
The money-changers in the temple are of course capitalism at its finest. The outrage is to take the sacred and make it profane. While I don’t see much sacred in giving doves to some fat priests to slaughter so that Yahweh won’t smite you for some transgression (um, why don’t you just apologize to the person you wronged?), I do believe there is a need for the sacred in human life.
Part of what is so soulless about American culture is that we commercialize absolutely everything. The National Park system was an attempt at pushback to this (before the parks there were billboards along every railroad and highway and all over beautiful natural places).
Well, actor, I don’t think there was a literal Jesus, anyway. Jesus was a revolutionary code-name (“Joshua” as in the great Jewish warrior from the Torah). The Book of Sirach was a pseudonymous 1st century BCE text who author styled himself “Jesus”. The mythical Teacher of the Essenes is styled “Jesus”. Many of the sayings attributed to “Jesus” probably come from the Essenes.
Some of the people referred to in the Bible, such as John the Baptist, Simon and James, were either real religious leaders or real revolutionaries, but “Jesus” himself is strangely absent from the historical record. There were many would-be messiahs and of course all the elements of Jesus’ supposed life and ministry come straight out of other myths about dying and rising gods.
There’s plenty of good material in the NT. It comes from the Persian religion, Zoroastrianism, which was their take on some Indian religious and philosophical ideas (including some minor demigods from the Indian pantheon). (There’s a book, Jesus in India, which notices the influences and takes this idea in a more literal direction. You might like it.)
Gnostic Christianity predated Orthodox Christianity and gnosticism does not have a literal, in the flesh Jesus.
If gawd existed, it would be necessary to deny him.
Also: sin 4 Jesus = ~-0.76 Jesus.
Stop making fun of trig!
Well, actor, I don’t think there was a literal Jesus, anyway.
Tacitus would disagree with you.
J Neo Marvin said,
July 16, 2010 at 22:31
AHEM
Aaaagggg. Shoulda known I can’t outwit you clever people.
Can I have a martini anyway since it’s my birthday?
Can I have a martini anyway since it’s my birthday?
Of course! Happy birthday. I’ll make a double.
Can I have a martini anyway since it’s my birthday?
Sure!
Of course! Happy birthday. I’ll make a double.
You’re awfully free with my fucking gin!
You’re awfully free with my fucking gin!
Maybe if you sprung for something better than Aristocrat, I wouldn’t have to be.
Maybe if you sprung for something better than Aristocrat, I wouldn’t have to be.
The Tanqueray bottle didn’t fool you?
41?Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
There you go! Proof right there that Jesus was to right of center, politically. He also rode a donkey into town on Palm Sunday, proof that he thought of Democrats as dumb and inferior beasts. Did you ever hear of Jesus riding an elephant? No, of course not. He had way too much respect for his close personal friend, Ronald Regan, to ever do such a thing.
I think it’s pretty important that the notion that Christianity was for anyone other than the Jews was all Paul’s idea. He was supposed to be the Messiah for the Jewish people (a pretty popular thing to be at the time, as other commenters have mentioned).
There’s no indication he ever thought non-Jews would listen to his message. He was happy running a little mom & pop neighborhood religion, by Jews, for Jews, and then Paul came along and turned the thing into freaking JFC.
How shall we fuck off, oh Lord?
Mmmmmmmm thanks (hic). Work is going so much more nicely now.
The Tanqueray bottle didn’t fool you?
No, sorry. *Everyone* knows that you’ve had that same bottle for years and keep refilling it with cheap gin.
Believe it or don’t, they both did, according to whomever wrote it. Of course, the reference is to religious teachers in both accounts, you’d think she’d pick up on that. I guess she’s found it easier to purse her lips and look primly around at the other people they OBVIOUSLY meant.
I remember watching The Passion in a church basement full of evangelicals… and getting to the parts where the religious leaders and high priests are accusing Jesus of heresy and witchcraft because, if he’s got powers that they’ve never heard of, that can only mean he’s a tool of the devil
… and I was looking around the room the whole time thinking “am I really the only one picking up on the irony here?”
I remember watching The Passion in a church basement full of evangelicals
And you lived to tell the tale? I’m impressed.
Hm, one of my comments from earlier seems to have disappeared…
Thanks a lot vs for getting me over to the Onion. Now I will probably be spending my money on a T-shirt.
Aaand, there it is. WTF?
Now I will probably be spending my money on a T-shirt.
Oooh, that’s a good one!
my fucking gin!
That’s panty-peeler and you know it!
Lol…that’s a gooder. I say buy.
That’s panty-peeler and you know it!
I find that vodka works better.
Not on me, of course.
And while Nero was widely reviled for being perceived as doing just this, it was far worse under the renaissance popes than during the time of the early emperors.
Yeah, everyone seems to forget that Europe took one giant step backwards after the rise of Christianity and was the medieval version of the Soviet Union for the next millennium while the Muslims, the Chinese and others prospered, grew and thrived. And the commies get shit for seventy years of totalitarianism… try a thousand.
The money-changers in the temple are of course capitalism at its finest.
Much better; it’s modern American conservatism at its finest. They money-changers weren’t just prospering for their own sakes and at society’s expense… they were also exploiting religion for financial gain. See televangelists for future reference.
That’s panty-peeler and you know it!
That or paint remover.
…you’ve had that same bottle for years and keep refilling it with cheap gin.
That’s not gin.
I’ve read actual statements from Rapturists that state there’s no need to be conservationists since only the damned will remain after the rapture
We had James Watt as our Secretary of the Interior promoting that notion in the 80s. He also made a big stink about the Beach Boys playing a big show in D.C. Don’t recall if this was before or after Dennis Wilson had a fling with Reagan’s daughter…
while the Muslims, the Chinese and others prospered, grew and thrived.
I do enjoy pointing out to my students on occasion that in 1492 Europe was the foulest third world backwater imaginable and the the centers of commerce, learning, art, science, etc. were in the Islamic world, India, and China. Tenochtitlan was the largest city that any of the Spanish Conquistadors had ever seen (larger than any in Europe). That it was only the vast quantities of gold, silver, and other resources (the gold supply in Europe quintupled in the first century after the conquest) that they looted from the Americas that raised them into preeminence.
That it was only the vast quantities of gold, silver, and other resources (the gold supply in Europe quintupled in the first century after the conquest) that they looted from the Americas that raised them into preeminence.
LOL, are you saying Europe only got ahead by stealing from brown people?
That’s so raaaaaaaaaaaaaacist!
That’s so
raaaaaaaaaaaaaacistpolitically correct, which is raaaaaaaaaaaaaacist!Fixed.
DrDick it is truly sad how few people are aware of that. Have you read Jack Weatherford’s Indian Givers? I have given a few copies of that book to friends who needed to learn some history.
I do enjoy pointing out to my students on occasion that in 1492 Europe was the foulest third world backwater imaginable and the the centers of commerce, learning, art, science, etc. were in the Islamic world, India, and China
Didn’t the Crusades pretty much stamp out Arab and Islmamic world progress? I know the Early Middle Ages were the real Dark Ages for the West, and wasn’t this kind of the high period of Islamic progress in arts, sciences, medicine, etc? I seem to remember that things fell apart a little bit after the conquests.
That’s not gin.
That explains the tangy aftertaste.
. cerevisiae said,
July 16, 2010 at 23:28
I have though it is aimed mostly at a popular audience and there are a lot of better sources available, which I have also read. I am a cultural anthropologist who specializes in Native North America and political economy.
DrDick it is truly sad how few people are aware of that. Have you read Jack Weatherford’s Indian Givers? I have given a few copies of that book to friends who needed to learn some history.
How are still buying the Columbus story the way it’s taught in grade school?
That explains the tangy aftertaste.
TangyRay. The real name before those commercials with the pimp lookin’ dude.
Didn’t the Crusades pretty much stamp out Arab and Islmamic world progress?
Not really. There was some decline in the later Middle Ages, but that was mostly a consequence of internal divisions and conflicts and not really anything to do with the Crusades. The entire Renaissance was a product of borrowing knowledge from the Arab world. By the 15th century, the region was weakened by political divisions and other factors, which would make it easier for the Europeans to conquer them in the following centuries. The one advantage that the Europeans had was that the constant warfare which had plagued them since the collapse of Rome had led to massive innovation in military technologies, especially when they had proper financing in the 16th and subsequent centuries.
Except it’s the New Testament which actually gets into the whole “wailing and gnashing of teeth” business with vigor. Old Testament brutality is corporeal — old I AM punishes his people with destitution, disease, and diaspora. The Jesus of the Christian Bible doesn’t give a flying fuck about how well people do in life — in fact, his preaching and that of his successors is full of suggestions to dispose of your wealth, to reject your life and family, to accept slavery and poverty, and to wait for the liberation of the grave (and the ultimate victory over same).
I was set to blather on at length about what this says about Judaism and Christianity, how they were formed by different influences, how this mirrors the relationship between Hinduism and Buddhism, but then I realized this is Sadly, No and it would end up being a eulogy for Captain Clown.
Tsam, that would be most of the country. and DrDick these were not really academic types and I was looking to show them that there is a lot of history that is not taught in high school.
Didn’t the Crusades pretty much stamp out Arab and Islmamic world progress?
Arab maybe, Islamic no.
I’m not sure when the Arabs fell – I do know that eventually, the Arab empires and most Arab lands fell under the control of the Turks (the Ottoman Empire popped up at the end of the thirteenth century, long after the First Crusade). Exactly how, when and why that happened, I don’t know. But I think the fall of the Arabs owes more to the Turks than to the Europeans.
Islamic progress didn’t end with them though, since the Ottomans kept on going for a long time. Actually, during the Rennaissance, the French sought (and got) an alliance with them against Charles V of Spain. For the French to do this despite the religious outrage they knew it would cause all over the Christian world, Ottoman power must have been worth quite a lot.
Tenochtitlan was the largest city that any of the Spanish Conquistadors had ever seen
And the only one they had ever seen that was clean. Coming from benighted Andalusian backwaters where the sewage and muck was shin deep in the streets they still managed to hold on to their steadfast idea of their own superiority. Maybe they were Republicans.
Book recommendation: 1491
Tsam, that would be most of the country.
Sad. Nothing but sad. But then we’re still debating whether to teach creation in schools or actually educate kids. Anyway, it must be nice to have a national holiday in a country you never actually set foot in.
“I do enjoy pointing out to my students on occasion that in 1492 Europe was the foulest third world backwater imaginable and the the centers of commerce, learning, art, science, etc. were in the Islamic world, India, and China”
Just not so. Europe by then is on par with other sophisticated civilizations, more or less, depending on your precise criteria. The statement might pass if you substituted 900 C.E. for 1492. I’d give you maybe even 1100 for Christian Europe outside of Italy. After that, you have the Commercial Revolution of the Middle Ages, which you ought to read something about.
More interesting and more accurate: Europe’s cultural renaissance (not the famous one Burckhardt concocted on the basis of the visual arts, but the comprehensive economic growth of the continent after 1050) depended absolutely on the recovery not only of classical texts, but of the ARABIC authorities who had already elaborated and extended classical western (yes) culture. Google “Averroes” (ibn Rushd), Avicenna (ibn Sina), and Alhacen for key examples.
What I tell my students: European philosophy or science up to and through the Scientific Revolution could not have happened without prior medieval Islamic learning. One built entirely upon the other. The classical heritage was passed to Europe through Islamic civilization. That’s ultimately more mind-blowing a jolt to the historical consciousness than the falsehood quoted above.
As for the decline of Islamic science and philosophy, it’s not the Crusades that did it. It’s the Turks and the Mongols. But then the Ottomans developed a sophisticated court culture by the sixteenth century (and of course were taking over all of SW Europe).
Averroes, btw, was a major guide and source for Thomas Aquinas. So was Avicenna (d. 1039), although Thomas’ teacher, Albertus Magnus, followed Avicenna’s teachings much more closely.
Yes, the only medieval thinker most people know, whose doctrines are the official dogma of the RC Church today, read, revered, and parroted Muslim thinkers. All the great theologians of the period did.
Given that the High Middle Ages was the high tide of crusading fever and of the Spanish “Reconquest”, that means Christendom’s relationship with Islam was rather complicated, to say the least.
Avicenna was a physician, too. His million-word long encyclopedia of medicine, the Canon, was a standard textbook of medical learning in European medical schools from the c. 1150-c.1650.
Wapsie –
There may be some hyperbole in my comment, but, at least according to the sources I am familiar with, Europe really did not have the volume of commerce, the numbers and quality of universities, the scholarship, or the technological sophistication of the other regions.
shouldn’t it be “all His attributes”? Ah, now the entire essay finally makes sense.
Yes, the only medieval thinker most people know, whose doctrines are the official dogma of the RC Church today, read, revered, and parroted Muslim thinkers. All the great theologians of the period did.
Muslim Christian relations are a long and complicated story, and not nearly as cut and dried as the fundies of today make it sound.
One thing I enjoy that came out of Vatican II;
Good thing to pull out every now and then against Muslim-haters in the Catholic community.
*Everyone* knows that you’ve had that same bottle for years and keep refilling it with cheap gin.
Thass not jeep chin! Thass shop telf stuff!
Hey! Hey!
WTF
I’m learnin’ stuff here.
Well, bust out the rotgut and keep drinking till the learning stops.
They [zombies] are great at everything except driving
Also do I get a gold star for staying out of the the religion fracas? ‘Cuz, if I don’t the I’m not gonna sit on my hands* any longer.
* not a VFFR. I don’t think so anyway.
Also too FFYWP
‘Cuz, if I don’t the I’m not gonna sit on my hands* any longer.
If you were a zombie you could stand on your hands.
If you were a zombie you could stand on your hands.
Only after they fell off, of course.
I’m learnin’ stuff here.
They have some nerve, don’t they. Especially as it’s Friday night for most of us.
I’m learnin’ stuff here.
Sickening, isn’t it?
WC
more problems at that site; The Ho and I are planning for Sunday; if we meet great if not there’s always plan B. PS, NF-99 is fucking awesome
Pupienus: Gotcha on Sunday, hope to see ya.
I’m too stupid to get “NF-99” but maybe when I get home and have a drink or three (oh Pusser’s Rum, is there anything you can’t do?) I’ll finger it out.
PS: What do you have against puppies anyway?
So, wha’d I miss?
I just came back from the weekly Righteous Rave at the Church of Christ, Hedonist.*
*We put the “E” in Eucharist.
The thing I find ironic in this is the right-wing nutbag shouting and stamping his feet about how the filthy liberals have turned God into a genie, when one of the more common cliches of Internet atheists is shouting about how religious people just see God as a wish-granting Sky Fairy (or, well, genie).
Two different sides of the argument, and they both complain about genie-gods.
I am NOT a kitten-murderer… Should there be a hyphen there?
Ix-nay on the “kitten murderer” alk-tay. No need to put ideas in tigris’ head.
I’m too stupid to get “NF-99?
National Forest road 99 a.k.a. Windy Ridge; off NF-25 south of Randle. A destination road for
sportbikers (of all stripes) throughout the great PNW.PS: What do you have against puppies anyway?
Funny you should ask – this evening the Ho told me he wants to get a cute one tomorrow (maybe as an anniversary present?)
*We put the “E” in Eucharist.
You owe me a new martini and keyboard.
PS – I never see Ducatis up there. Wusses.
Ix-nay on the “kitten murderer” alk-tay. No need to put ideas in tigris’ head.
Ms. Cat would reciprocate any aggression a hundred-fold.
You owe me a new martini and keyboard.
Don’t you have a plastic slipcover for your COM-PU-TOR?
Funny you should ask – this evening the Ho told me he wants to get a cute one tomorrow (maybe as an anniversary present?)
ZOMG DO IT! Puppies!
RE: larnin’ stuff – I just put up a book report over at my joint – about GERMS.
Don’t you have a plastic slipcover for your COM-PU-TOR?
Yes but it’s so nasty and slippery after the Ho uses that machine I hafta take it off. He keeps breaking the browser too – it only brings up pr0n anymore.
Ix-nay on the “kitten murderer” alk-tay. No need to put ideas in tigris’ head.
Ms. Cat would reciprocate any aggression a hundred-fold.
Ms. Cat is just the kind of partner in crime I’m looking for. I mean OH OOK AT THE ICKLE KITTY!
PS – I never see Ducatis up there. Wusses.
Clearly I must embark on a 3500 mile round trip on a sport bike to defend the honor of the gentlemen from Bologna.
I’m not sure when the Arabs fell – I do know that eventually, the Arab empires and most Arab lands fell under the control of the Turks (the Ottoman Empire popped up at the end of the thirteenth century, long after the First Crusade). Exactly how, when and why that happened, I don’t know.
The fall of Byzantium to the Arabian peoples from the gulf and levant, along with a pretty fast conversion rate (to Islam) in the states that bordered byzantium. Once Byzantium fell, Ottoman turkey became the center of Islamic power, as the militarily conquered all the Muslim states, as well as a host of others. At its peak, it reached right into Spain, and up into what is Austria today. However, what most Islamophobes dont know (and dont want to know) is that the Ottoman empire allowed Chritians, jews, etc, to continue to worship their own religion. Compared to the shit that went down during the Inquisition (among other great Christian movements), it really was a more civilized approach.
…it only brings up pr0n anymore.
Feature not a bug.
Do NOT disturb the tigrises.
Bouffant, that picture is AWESOME.
Right after they swilled down all that Southern Comfort. Poor bastards just keeled right over.
Bouffant, that picture is AWESOME.
Thought of you when I saw it, & kept for appropriate occasion.
(If I’d typed “Do NOT tease, etc.” I would’ve really been on to something.)
Bouffant, that picture is AWESOME.
Jupiter’s angry red orifice is strangely disturbing.
Don’t tease the tigridia.
If gawd existed, it would be necessary to deny him.
This. For certain values of gawd, natch.
But surely we must bomb those heathen Arabs to teach them of the infinite love of Jesus?
I just last night thought up this joke:
Q: What’s got a six-foot wingspan and can’t act for shit?
A: Jessica Albatross.
Hence I present a new version:
Q: What’s got a six-foot wingspan and a deep-seated loathing for all of humanity?
A: Bonnie Albatross.
Found this today on facebook;
????????????????????
“Doing good deeds” is considered a conspiracy for self-benefit? Must be nice to live in a world where altruism has been so completely abandoned as a value…
If He had an inkling about freedom and individual rights, He would have demanded that government of the people, by the people and for the people by FOR the people, first and foremost. Funny that an omniscient God missed that…
If God was really dictating the text of the Bible, why didn’t he put in a commandment to boil water before drinking?
a mildly entertaining TV show from the late 1950?s that is remarkable today for the gentlemanly conduct of the players and their ability to speak in complete sentences
I grew up in the late 60’s/early 70’s reading biographies of sports stars. It was mainly because, even at the age 9, I wanted to see them naked and the books sparked my imagination (mmmmm…..locker rooms…..mmmmmm) but still, they were fun to read, full of heroics and wins and all that. They were also incredibly sanitized and of only passing acquaintance with the real lives of ballplayers in all all sports.
Then Ball Four came out. Woah nellie! It was scandalous, all the tales of players drilling holes in dugouts so they could look up women’s dresses (“beaver shots”), the casual racism, the hints of drug use (mostly speed), the cheating on wives etc. The book is 40 years old, so if someone is still clinging to the myth of ballplayers “back then” being a bunch of God-fearin’ Boy Scouts, they need their head examined.
If God was really dictating the text of the Bible, why didn’t he put in a commandment to boil water before drinking?
Fluoridation.
I wish I could have been there with you.
Your were