Yeah, I think it’s sad too that helping people get health care is politically poisonous. But that’s America, baby.

I am literally crying. Where did it all go so horribly wrong? I would love to make a hilarious joke about it (I had one for “The Club for Growth,” which is a joke already, but you beat me to it with “Club for Rich Kids,” Brad) but I can’t. It just too painful to see the rich living forever while “those” people are expendable. Ugh. Rubber cement, here I come.

helping people get health care is politically poisonous

This.

WTF happened to “compassionate conservativism”?

So, this eye-opening tidbit, in light of $P’s ‘Canadian Revelations’, a Mitt/Moose ticket is pretty much off the table, eh? Dammit.

There is something deeply, deeply wrong with middle-class and working-class conservatives who oppose universal health care.

WTF happened to “compassionate conservativism”?

Simply put, it was crushed by the rapidly-shifting Overton Window.

Remember, Dubya “was always a liberal” now.

There is something deeply, deeply wrong with middle-class and working-class conservatives who oppose universal health care.

There is something wrong with anyone who opposes it. You’d like, in 2010, that people would realize that in order to perpetuate the species, we are going to have to help one another — and not just during an catastrophe.

Palin 2012 looks increasingly inevitable.

I can hardly wait. We say there’s no Peak Wingnut, but surely this level of stupid and crazy cannot be sustained.

There is something deeply, deeply wrong with middle-class and working-class conservatives who oppose universal health care.

There is something wrong with anyone who opposes it. You’d think, in 2010, that people would realize that in order to perpetuate the species, we are going to have to help one another — and not just during an catastrophe.

Uh, double post? FYWP, coz i didn’t do dat.

This is rich

My fav:

Everything changed for Atlas on September 11, 2001. She immediately began to immerse herself in gaining a full understanding of geopolitics, Islam, jihad, terror, foreign affairs and the imminent threats to our freedoms that the mainstream media and the government wouldn’t cover or discuss.

“Imminent threats to our freedoms”?? No mention of indefinite detentions, lighting the up Constitution with a lit stogie, etc… xenophobe much?

“There is something deeply, deeply wrong with middle-class and working-class conservatives who oppose universal health care.”

Trace it back to Nixon, who first realized that while trying to woo middle and lower-class voters from the democrats using economic incentives got him savaged by the wealthy and the Goldwater wing of his party, convincing them that they were a different, nobler tribe under attack by the socialist barbarians had no downsides at all.

Everything changed for Atlas on September 11, 2001

She discovered that when implantees shrug, people watch.

You’d think, in 2010, that people would realize that in order to perpetuate the species, we are going to have to help one another — and not just during an catastrophe.

This is my A #1 with a bullet problem with the US. There is such a fetishization of the individual in all areas of life that we’ve actually made people’s lives worse. Without widespread acknowledgement that we are, in fact, a society and that our actions do affect other people, and that we share a finite number of resources that are dwindling quickly, we’re fucking doomed.

Without widespread acknowledgement that we are, in fact, a society and that our actions do affect other people

Socialistcommuniststalinistcubfanfascistcollectiviststatist.

It’s like I don’t even know you.

Hey, no sign of actor212- if you’re lurking, I fully expect to see you in Brooklyn.

If you’re not afraid…

And because he committed this wicked and dastardly act, Mittens will find his political career essentially over.

I dunno. McCain was as much a heretic to teh troo conservatiffs and he still grabbed the nomination… just ahead of Huck, himself a heretic.

Electability remains such a big fucking deal in the primary game, and the thing with Mitt, despite his underwear and healthcare heresy, is that the Repubs – especially its corporate sponsors – see him as nationally electable. Moose, not so much.

I am a betting man, and Mitt is a warm favorite in my books for the GOP nomination. Moose will probably quit, Huck isn’t pro-business enough, and none of the others have name-recognition. Club4Shrub will suck it up on Mass-care, Romney’s their only realistic choice.

Socialistcommuniststalinistcubfanfascistcollectiviststatist.

Wait, did you just call me a CUBS FAN???

There is such a fetishization of the individual in all areas of life that we’ve actually made people’s lives worse. Without widespread acknowledgement that we are, in fact, a society and that our actions do affect other people, and that we share a finite number of resources that are dwindling quickly, we’re fucking doomed.

I’ve argued for years – based on my original research consisting of reading other people’s opinions – that modern suburbia fucked us more than we can ever describe. People in small towns realize they are part of a society, because they interact with their neighbors all day, every day. People in big cities realize they are part of society because they interact with all sorts of people all day, every day. People on all farms other than subsistence farms realize they are part of society because they need to sell their produce and buy supplies and the mechanisms of those crucial transactions are based on outside forces.

Only people in modern formless suburbia (as opposed to old-style town suburbs) believe the fiction that they are somehow free spirits, unconnected from their surroundings. This was bad enough when these suburbs were new, but is far worse now that we have two generations raised there.

Wait, did you just call me a CUBS FAN???

I didn’t call you “unreliable.”

Am I wrong to think that the essentially the problem for Romney is that he was a competent (in an old school “Rockefeller Repub” kind of way) Governor in Mass, and has essentially been forced to run against that ever since?

Everything changed for Atlas on September 11, 2001. She immediately began to immerse herself in gaining a full understanding of geopolitics, Islam, jihad, terror, foreign affairs and the imminent threats to our freedoms that the mainstream media and the government wouldn’t cover or discuss.

A lot of people were talking about those things before 9/11 and she wants a cookie for caring now. It’s morons like her that forgot about the bombing in ’93 that tried to topple the towers (and the prior decades of highjackings, bombs, etc.). The reason they don’t bring that prior stuff up is because they weren’t paying attention to it and were obsessed with BJs and tails wagging dogs. I’m not suprised she’s another member of the repulsive and egocentric “history started the morning of September 11 because it caused me to soil some perfectly good pants” crowd.

Am I wrong to think that the essentially the problem for Romney is that he was a competent (in an old school “Rockefeller Repub” kind of way) Governor in Mass, and has essentially been forced to run against that ever since?

There was a great Onion video on this called “Romney rejects accusations of tolerance.”

Well, at least one good thing as come out of the Tea Partiers. Gotta take those silver linings when you can.

The individual mandate is diametrically against what free-market conservatives believe in.

Did anybody else giggle out loud when they read this?

Only people in modern formless suburbia (as opposed to old-style town suburbs) believe the fiction that they are somehow free spirits, unconnected from their surroundings. This was bad enough when these suburbs were new, but is far worse now that we have two generations raised there.

Absolutely. I complain about growing up in small-town Kansas, but I think it was a healthier environment than the cul-de-sac where my husband grew up. Modern suburbs are bad for the economy, the environment, and people’s mental and physical health. Their existence is also going to be a huge problem when we run out of cheap fuel.

Modern suburbs are bad for the economy, the environment, and people’s mental and physical health. Their existence is also going to be a huge problem when we run out of cheap fuel.

Not necessarily. We can use them to field test first-person shooters.

Wait, did you just call me a CUBS FAN???

I didn’t call you “unreliable.”

Come to think of it, Cubs fans seem rather truculent, too…

However, I am a lifelong Royals fan (as much as someone who is terribly bored by baseball can be a fan). More importantly, I try not to behave like a fucking jackass.

Modern suburbs are bad for the economy, the environment, and people’s mental and physical health. Their existence is also going to be a huge problem when we run out of cheap fuel.

Not necessarily. We can use them to field test first-person shooters.

I like the cut of your jib.

I like the cut of your jib.

Veiled foreskin holocaust reference.

Sorry for the misplaced-posting, WP freaked out on me and as a result my cpu vomited on me.

Only people in modern formless suburbia (as opposed to old-style town suburbs) believe the fiction that they are somehow free spirits, unconnected from their surroundings.

“This we know: The Earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the Earth. All things are connected alike the blood that unites us all; Man did not weave teh web of life, he is but a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.”
— Chief Seattle, 1852
Dwamish

Romney has a fortune at his disposal, and a lot of the party leaders lining up behind him. I’m not going to bet him down just yet.

McCain won in NH in ’08 by being “the other guy” in the race and generally running to the left of the pack. Sucking up hard to the Washington media got him momentum to propel him to victory. Otherwise, ’08 should have been Romney’s year. If Mittens can get the media under control, he’s got the cash and the charisma to pull the RNC his way. He won’t be the Tea Bagger candidate, but the way the rest of the candidates are charging righward that might be more a distinguishing feature than a ding on his credit.

I can see Romney winning on the same path that gave the nomination to McCain.

Yes, Romney’s certainly open to all kinds of attacks on him as a flip-flopper, the same kind that sank John Kerry. I support such attacks; I’d rather get even than mad.

Also, the only thing he has going for him is money and everyone knows it… Which means if it’s him versus Obama, the fight really is Barack’s to win or lose. People may elect Romney if they’re mad enough at Obama, but certainly not on his own merits.

“This we know: The Earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the Earth. All things are connected alike the blood that unites us all; Man did not weave teh web of life, he is but a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.”
– Chief Seattle, 1852

No man is an island;
No man is an island:
He’s a peninsula!
– Jefferson Airplane

The fault doesn’t necessarily lie with suburbia. I grew up in a suburb that was a thriving community. It was not the modern phenomenon of people driving out the garage in the morning and back into the garage in the evening and not interacting with neighbours at all. You had kids playing street hockey (or tag, or kick-the-can, or…) at all hours, block parties, everybody knew everybody…

It was basically a small-town environment, except that all the businesses were a mile away.

I know anecdotes are not data, but my point is it doesn’t need to be individual atoms of selfishness sitting at home guarding their Precious. That is a result of all sorts of cultural changes, not just zoning laws.

No man is an island;
No man is an island:
He’s a peninsula!
– Jefferson Airplane

“Bulls On Parade!”
-RATM

Only people in modern formless suburbia (as opposed to old-style town suburbs) believe the fiction that they are somehow free spirits, unconnected from their surroundings. This was bad enough when these suburbs were new, but is far worse now that we have two generations raised there.

Of course, this is compounded by the fact that most of these people work long hours because they are terrified that they’ll be laid off, have long solo commutes from distant workplaces, and just want to slump down in front of the tube or computer when they finally get home.

Mittens will find his political career essentially over.

Nah. It’s his turn, that’s how the modern GOP works. McCain supported the greatestthreattoamericaevar of the day, immigration reform, and he still got the nomination anyway cause it was his turn. Bob Dole was an ancient old fart who ran strongest against HW Bush in ’88, and he got the nomination in ’96 cause it was his turn. HW Bush ran strongest in ’80 against Reagan, ’88 was his turn. Even Reagan was favored for the nom in 1980 cause he challenged Ford from the right in ’76, and lost. Only exception since Nixon was Bush the Dull, and that one could be chalked up to regret on the part of the base for throwing out his old man and letting in Teh Clenis.

Only thing that would keep Mittens from the GOP nomination in 2012 would be a dead girl/live boy issue, and maybe not even then if it happened early enough in the cycle.

I know anecdotes are not data, but my point is it doesn’t need to be individual atoms of selfishness sitting at home guarding their Precious. That is a result of all sorts of cultural changes, not just zoning laws.

Fair enough. Let me phrase it this way: shitty zoning creates an environment that tends toward shitty society. Good people can buck this trend, but many people won’t; just as bad people can buck the trend of social interaction fostered by good planning, but most people won’t.

Addendum to myself: Let me phrase it this way: shitty zoning creates an environment that tends toward shitty society.

Headshots are the most effective way to kill zombies.

WTFF? Why does everyone let these dumbfuck teabaggers run their pukeholes without challenging them? Seriously!

Response: “So your proposing a solution which consists of doing nothing and letting the millions of uninsured working people go without health care, or lose everything as a result of getting sick?”

What response would they have besides “um…yeah”? None.

I really believe the MSM is in love with this whole folk hero persona these cuntfaced teabaggers are trying to portray.

No man is an island;
No man is an island:
He’s a peninsula!

VPR?

Headshots are the most effective way to kill zombies.

Ruh-roh, here comes the engineer-architect flame war…

I thought Mittens would get the nod in 2008. The really scary thing about him is he can sound “reasonable” and “centrist” and all of that shit. [shudder]

Headshots are the most effective way to kill zombies.

You’ve seen mine, it appears.

Headshots are the most effective way to kill zombies.

And fuckface teabaggers…

Only people in modern formless suburbia (as opposed to old-style town suburbs) believe the fiction that they are somehow free spirits, unconnected from their surroundings.

If there is any place in America where this is true, where people are unconnected from their environment, it’s suburbia.

I know anecdotes are not data, but my point is it doesn’t need to be individual atoms of selfishness sitting at home guarding their Precious. That is a result of all sorts of cultural changes, not just zoning laws.

I agree, and I’m glad that you had that experience. I would still point out, though, that any modern suburban model relies on the car in order to exist, which creates a huge host of problems beyond lack of community. Hell, if you just want to take a jog in a suburban neighborhood, you have to do it in the street because there are no sidewalks.

this is compounded by the fact that most of these people work long hours because they are terrified that they’ll be laid off, have long solo commutes from distant workplaces, and just want to slump down in front of the tube or computer when they finally get home.

And since a community hasn’t really been established, their kids slump down with them instead of playing with other children.

Headshots are the most effective way to kill zombies.

And fuckface teabaggers…

But that would be wrong.

I thought Mittens would get the nod in 2008. The really scary thing about him is he can sound “reasonable” and “centrist” and all of that shit. [shudder]

“reasonable” and “centrist” is the new “left-wing commie anarchist”

I fully expect to see you in Brooklyn

I’m getting my inoculations as we speak. The Rum House,right?

I eally believe the MSM is in love with this whole folk hero persona

Every story that comes out in the news, everyday, is a puff piece. I mean, you must have seen THIS nonsense.

And since a community hasn’t really been established, their kids slump down with them instead of playing with other children.

The first time I heard about “play dates” I was stumped. (NVPS) When I was a kid I went down to the 4th floor of our building to play with one friend, or across the street to play with another, or around the block to play with a third…or they came and found me. It never occurred to us that we should plan interaction and it never occurred to our parents that they should plan for us. Can that happen in suburbia? Sure. As easily as in a town or city? I doubt it.

Uh…NVPS = NVPR.

Or maybe that should be NVPS %=> NVPR.

N__B,

It’s not just the subby environs that creates the whole “play date” thing. It’s the fact that mom AND dad have to work, which means that parents have to schedule times when they can drive across town.

Sure, there’s a population density thing. When I grew up on my block alone there were five or six of us, then the next block another half dozen, and eventually we could cross the street and that’s how the Crips were born.

But I digress. We lived in a community, but mothers were always around. If not mine, then someone’s who would rat me out.

It’s the fact that mom AND dad have to work, which means that parents have to schedule times when they can drive across town.

Both my parents worked and my father’s job had him out of town for weeks at a time. But our neighborhood didn’t require me to be driven anywhere.

It’s not just the subby environs that creates the whole “play date” thing. It’s the fact that mom AND dad have to work, which means that parents have to schedule times when they can drive across town.

It’s also the fact that parents are scared shitless (overactive amygdalae?) about letting their children out of sight. When I was a golden-curled moppet, we’d have the run of the neighborhood until dark in the summertime.

When I was a golden-curled moppet, we’d have the run of the neighborhood until dark in the summertime.

Me too 4Bs. Someone told a story here a few days ago about Finland (think) how kids were left alone for half an hour (swimming in 40 degree water; which is not good btw) because there is no fear in that country of abduction ect. Granted the sheer size of the US means more nutzoids but in recent years a culture of fear of the unknown has dominated. And as a result we just stay indoors and bomb ppl with drones, from far away.

We lived in a community, but mothers were always around.

Interest. Newsletter. &c.

You know what the real problem is with kids these days? They won’t stay the fuck offa mah lawn.

Man did not weave teh web of life, he is but a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.

[ “Goatse” joke goes here ]

No man is an island;
No man is an island:
He’s a peninsula!
– Jefferson Airplane

I am Iraq
I am Ire-land!
— Simon and Garfunkel

“So your proposing a solution which consists of doing nothing and letting the millions of uninsured working people go without health care, or lose everything as a result of getting sick?”

What response would they have besides “um…yeah”? None.

Their response, of course, is “FREEDOM!” “WOLVERINES!!1!” “BLARGH!”

To which I always respond, “Yep, freedom to go bankrupt if you or someone you love gets sick.”

You know what the real problem is with kids these days?

They, along with adults, think everything’s about them?

You’re so vain
You probably think this bill is about you
You’re so vain
I bet you think cloture’s about you, don’t you? Don’t you?

fuckface teabaggers…

Talk about your redundant redundancies.

“So your proposing a solution which consists of doing nothing and letting the millions of uninsured working people go without health care, or lose everything as a result of getting sick?”

What response would they have besides “um…yeah”? None.

Possible wingnut responses:

1) People are only unemployed because they want to be, since we make unemployment benefits too generous. If we cut UI, and stopped letting poor folks use the emergency room, the problem would disappear.

2) What are you, a fascist?

3) What’s that? Some people have jobs without benefits? Well, that’s the free market at work. If they didn’t want that job without benefits they wouldn’t have taken it, so the fact that they have it is proof that they are content with their situation.

4) What are you, a socialist?

5) You just wish we had rationing like in Canada, but in Canada everybody dies young and all the Canadians hate their medical care. See, here’s a Fraser Institute report that proves I’m right.

6) What are you, a communist?

7) Why do you hate The American Way, Freedom, Mom and Apple Pie?

8) What are you, a Cubs fan?

SocraticSilence:

You’re letting your perceptions of CommonwealthCare (the program’s actual name, believe it or not) sweeten your concept of Romney’s competence. That and dismantling the pathetic, hack-ridden Metropolitan District Commission and replacing it with the pathetic, hack-ridden Department of Conservation and Recreation. Calling him a space shot is too kindly; better to say he essentially quit halfway through his term without actually resigning and went walking around the country slagging his own state for the wingnut base’s votes.

If Mitt and MooseSnatch can’t pair up for the Big Dance- then, who shall stand beside him? Or behind him, urging him on? Or urghing on him? Or something like that. The point about his ‘turn’ being due has merit, in light of the past Republican progression (damn, that’s an awkward phrase- Republican progression). Still enough time for the Obama crew to drop the plot, though, without real leadership. Mitt’s face will become some sort of ‘Big Daddy Problem Solver Superman’, that schtick plays well with the numbskull crowd (if you piss your pants over the terror hype, you’ll just love our Mitt diaper liner, new for 2012). Dammit, I am a sick man.

It’s still amusing to see these two sides of the party go at each other, even though they have to know that they don’t have a freakin’ chance without each other. Nice to see someone else’s coalition fall apart for once.

Bonus OT Conservatives eating their own:
LOL FOOTBULLET!

@ Lurking Canadian: Nice list of responses. Sounds like you covered it well–now how about finding a journalist with in IQ above 12 to actually fight them back…but no, not here in the good ol’ US of Apple Pie and 12 gauge motherlovin fuckin freedom, son!

@ N__B: Mmm, there’s no response to that shameful accusation…

@DKW:

Here’s the best part…

It has also emerged that both the Bush administration and Rudy Giuliani’s law firm have employed lawyers who defended Gitmo detainees

Turns out the Jack Bauer of Mayors was involved in the jihadi sympathizing!

I don’t even have a mom joke. Off my game today. Also.

2) What are you, a fascist?

I wanna go fast.

Turns out the Jack Bauer MeHoff of Mayors was involved in the jihadi sympathizing!

Fixtorz

Any true “conservative” health plan relies on two key elements for the uninsured: prisons and workhouses.

Turns out the Jack Bauer MeHoff of Mayors was involved in the jihadi sympathizing!

Fixtorz

Nice save, Esteev.

If the right wants to splinter into a thousand little pieces over stupid purity tests, I’ll be there laughing the whole time.

Personally, I think you guys are being too pessimistic. Obama is where Reagan was in 1982. Terrible economy, middling approval rating, other party probably making big gains in November. Then what happened? The economy got better (you know, relatively), and he won the biggest landslide election ever. The economy will be better by 2012, so not only will the Dems be more secure, but the angst and outrage that’s feeding the Teabaggers wil dry up and they’ll go back to their basements.

Personally, my money’s still on Mitt’s Mormonism being the straw that will break his back.

Not so much from our side, but I get the feeling the same people who freak the fuck out over the Catholics we’ve allowed into national office would just as soon smash the shit out of Romney if it looked like he might make it to the big show.

To the economic royalists in the Club for Rich Kids, helping any person get health care is a direct affront on their Randroid ideology.

To be fair, what they object to is compulsory insurance. Of course, without that, you can’t have compulsory coverage with no “pre-existing condition” bullshit, and without that, you’ve just got the same pile of pus we have today.

I’m a little cranky because I just found out my deductible got raised from $250 to $1,000, meaning that having a couple of blackened toenails removed will cost me $600 or so that I hadn’t planned to spend. I realize I don’t have that much to complain about, because it won’t break me, but it still sucks.

Personally, my money’s still on Mitt’s Mormonism being the straw that will break his back.

Agreed – though not here in Utah, of course – but everywhere else yet another facet of the Southern (Baptist) Strategy would come home to roost.

[i]I really believe the MSM is in love with this whole folk hero persona these cuntfaced teabaggers are trying to portray.[/i]

The MSM seems incapable of reporting political matters outside the frame of a horse race.

“Health care reform is fading!”
“Obama is rallying!”
“Democrats are building momentum!”

Having grown bored with the old two-horse race, they are creaming their keyboards to have a NEW DARK HORSE!!!

I nominate “Randroid” as THE official scientific term for far right free market wingnuts.

(pause for flashback vertigo as i remember seeing The Market, that lumbering whale, jump the fence as grown boys hollered ‘Free Market!’ what a great movie that was. And the whale was… killer.)

flip-flopper… mormon… health-care commie…??

Am I the only one who thinks that this “Double Guantanamo” stuff should be a disqualifier? You know, I remember there were times in the U.S.of A. when supporting illegal torture camps was, like, not a good thing…

Tear him for his verses!

Hey, no sign of actor212- if you’re lurking, I fully expect to see you in Brooklyn.
If you’re not afraid…

I just want to say that RIchard Dawkins is a fine public speaker.
Not that I’m gloating or anything.

I just want to say that RIchard Dawkins is a fine public speaker.
Not that I’m gloating or anything.

He wasn’t there.

Your name came up, tho, in relation to an fMRI given to a patient watching alternating screens of a squirrel and a test pattern.

Only people in modern formless suburbia (as opposed to old-style town suburbs) believe the fiction that they are somehow free spirits, unconnected from their surroundings. This was bad enough when these suburbs were new, but is far worse now that we have two generations raised there.

how did I miss this? O yea, work. damn.

I take back everything bad I’ve ever said about you, N__B. For an engineer, you’re remarkably clear-headed.

Well, MOSt of the bad things I’ve said about you.

Not necessarily. We can use them to field test first-person shooters.

free-range feedstock lots for zombie NOMs.

I’m with St. Trotsky and that other guy. Mitt’s problem is that as a Mormon he could get elected Governor only (excluding Utah) in dirty F’in Hippie Liberal places like Massachusetts. There is zero chance that the right-wing Christers of the South will ever let him win a primary outside of New England or Utah. He’d have a better chance as an enviro-papist. Which is delightful, because it burned my ass as a MA native to watch him in teh various GOP debates refer to Massachusetts as if it were soem sort of insane asylum of liberal crazies, of which he’d been made warden and assigned to try to civilize them. F him. Massachusetts elected you because they didn’t give a shit about your magic underwear. You will never get the GOP nom because so many of them do.

We can use them to field test first-person shooters.

free-range feedstock lots for zombie NOMs.

See? This is why we can’t have nice things. You’re always horning in on the necessities.