Fun With Numbers
I really expected Heather Mac Donald, who collects wingnut welfare from the Manhattan Institute in exchange for collecting statistics demonstrating the inferiority of the non-white races, to have weighed in on the uppity Harvard professor before this. Perhaps she’s been busy working on her new book about how education is wasted on Negro children. But no matter, she has at last turned her bile-dipped pen to Professor Gates in an article, winsomely titled “Promoting Racial Paranoia,” in which she argues that racial profiling doesn’t exist, that there are statistics to prove it doesn’t exist and that anyone who says otherwise, like Professor Gates and his Negro cohort in the White House, are just race-baiting. And, she insists, these two race baiters will bear the ultimate blame when the restless jungle classes are whipped up by such falsehoods to talk back to police officers or commit other indignities against the white race.
Mac Donald starts her uppity Negro schtick with this jab at Gates:
Here, in Gates’s own words, is what the caller observed: Gates and his “regular driver” from his “regular car service” were both on his front porch, “fiddl[ing] with the door.” (The New York Times recasts this delicious nugget from Gates’s limousine-liberal lifestyle as an interaction with a mere “taxi driver.”)
Blacks, you see, are supposed to take the bus back from the airport.
And, of course, Mac Donald can’t write on this incident without playing one more time the favorite trump card of wingnuts: black people are the real racists.
Gates undoubtedly means to imply that the 911 caller, in her timorous white racism, sees every black man as “big,” but it is he who is engaged in racial stereotyping, not her.
I get the feeling that if someone mentioned that all Ku Klux Klan members are white, Heather would accuse them of racial profiling
Okay, now for the statistics that prove that black men earn more than white men racial profiling doesn’t exist:
The ACLU and other anti-police activists have alleged for years that blacks are the victims of disproportionate and unjustified traffic stops, a charge that has become received wisdom among large swathes of the population. It happens to be contradicted by drivers themselves. The Bureau of Justice Statistics regularly polls tens of thousands of civilians about their contacts with the police. Virtually identical proportions of white, black, and Hispanic drivers — 9 percent — report being stopped by the police, though in 2005, the self-reported black stop rate — 8.1 percent — was nearly a percentage point lower than the self-reported white stop rate (8.9 percent).
Ha, libs! Blacks are stopped less than whites!! Shove that up your pansy butts!!! Or maybe not. People of a more critical bent than Ms. Mac Donald might remark that this counterintuitive result that cops stop white people at higher rates might be explained by another factor that just might cast these figures in a completely different light. And what might that other factor be? Car ownership perhaps?
Well, tell us, great Gazoogle, is the rate of car ownership by whites greater than, equal to, or less than car ownership by black? Why, it would appear that only about half as many blacks own cars as whites. Imagine that. And, of course, if a smaller percentage of blacks drive than whites but get stopped at the same rate, you don’t need to be Ms. Braniac from the Manhattan Institute to realize that driving while black is perilous.
As if this weren’t enough, Ms. Mac Donald has forgotten to mention a significant result of the study she cites. According to that study, once stopped by the police, blacks were more likely than whites to be issued a ticket, to have their car searched, to be arrested and to have force used against them.
Yep, statistics sure do prove that racial profiling doesn’t exist.
“(The New York Times recasts this delicious nugget from Gates’s limousine-liberal lifestyle as an interaction with a mere “taxi driver.”)”
What, exactly, makes Gates having a “regular driver” a “delicious nugget”? What does that have to do with his arrest?
Plus, I thought being rich and having access to limousines was the ultimate wingnut ideal. I guess it only counts if you’re white and Republican.
From http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/gatesgate-by-digby-i-have-been.html
Yes, I’m so glad someone pointed this out. Where are all the libertarian A-Man’s-Home-Is-His-Castle folks to defend Gates? Maybe they’re having a retreat somewhere and haven’t heard the news.
No, just Republican.
Oh, fer fuck’s sake. Gates travels all the time, he takes car service (which, in Boston, is often cheaper than a metered taxi) and he has, shockingly, settled on a driver who he knows and likes. This is hardly evidence of “limousine liberalism.” In the rest of the world, this is called “planning” and “being pleasant.”
Nobody in this case is entirely in the right anyway. Gates appears to be kind of a dick, with his whole “do you have any idea who I am” retort which seems to indicate some elitism going on (and not the good kind; I’m all for some kinds of elitism, like eating dijon). But was he arrested because he was black? Yeah, that seems pretty obvious to me. So I do sympathize with Gates, I just wish he weren’t also a dick.
As it happens, pandagon has an article about the lie of post-racialism up today, and it sort of dovetails with this one in that it’s also about conservatives talking out of their asses about how racism is over.
I think the term Old MacDonald was looking for was more along the lines of “limousine uppity-ness”.
Using a car service? Really? She’s shrieking and clucking about that? Has she ever lived in a place with expensive taxi licences?
I sometimes wonder if wingnuts really understand how facts work. Sane people find all available information on a topic and then draw conclusions. Wingnuts, as far as I can tell, do the kind of statistical cherry-picking you might expect of a sixth-grader in a class debate.
There are some, O’Reilly being a good example, who I think do understand and who just lie about it, because that’s where the money is.
I guess what I’m saying is that I just don’t get how such a large number of people can ignore the data on what happens after the cop stops the driver. The implications of that are punch-you-in-the-face obvious.
I know, I’m young and naive about teh stupid.
All I can say is….If I were arrested for “disorderly conduct” for trying to get into my own goddamned house, my reaction would be a lot less restrained than Mr. Gates’ was.
About a year ago, a friend of mine was out of town and i agreed to feed her cats. But upon reaching the house, I found that the key she had given me didn’t work. I called her, and she explained to me her method of breaking into her house for emergency purposes.
So, I followed her instructions, got inside, fed the cats and let her know that all was well.
At which time the police arrived, laudably quick.
I exited the house and basically handed the phone to the police for her to talk to them, showed my ID, and explained the situation.
They talked to her, examined the ID and then thanked me and left.
I was driving my company truck logoed with a public utility. The first things the officers asked when I came out of the house was if I had a work order.
It later occurred to me that I was in notable danger when I came out of the house abruptly in front of two policemen.
Except that I’m white, as were the police, who have a rather bad reputation racially in this town.
Some things are parallel here, others not. I didn’t act upset at being questioned, for instance.
On the other hand, the police officers didn’t approach me with the default assumption that I was a criminal–even though I had clearly broken into the house–the open window was two feet away. The barely asked me anything at all.
I offer merely for anecdotal comparison; make of it what you will.
Also, this
is great. I was an ignorant fool before, but now I know: lawsuits intended to keep the police from being allowed to do certain things are exactly the same as disbanding the police force entirely.
I’d actually be all for that if cops weren’t occasionally really necessary.
Aren’t these the same people who always want the government to get off their backs?
Can someone help me out with this?
We’ve got a nosey fucking Gladys Cravits (sp?) peering through her lace curtains–is this the first time she’s ever seen Gates? A tweedy old black fella with a cane? Gates’ NEIGHBOR, a PERSON THAT LIVES IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO HIM, doesn’t know him well enough/doesn’t want to know him well enough to distinguish him from the other garden variety marauding negroes that infest her street?
I confused.
…and her rant goes on for three effing pages. Sorry, no time to read further than page one.
The wingnut welfare gravy train needs derailing somehow.
I sometimes wonder if wingnuts really understand how facts work. Sane people find all available information on a topic and then draw conclusions. Wingnuts, as far as I can tell, do the kind of statistical cherry-picking you might expect of a sixth-grader in a class debate.
Well, it’s because they have a conclusion in their minds before they begin, and then they find the facts (or make them up) that support that conclusion, ignoring or skewing the facts that don’t. Technically, people of all groups, including liberals, can be guilty of this, but with conservatives it’s absolutely universal, because of the wide divide between the conservative worldview and reality.
The first report was wrong; the woman was not a neighbor, but someone who worked at Harvard Magazine (which also has offices on that street) and was coming back from lunch.
Gates’ NEIGHBOR, a PERSON THAT LIVES IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO HIM, doesn’t know him well enough/doesn’t want to know him well enough to distinguish him from the other garden variety marauding negroes that infest her street?
“Surely they’re not allowing those kinds to live in this neighborhood now. When I got this mortgage thirty years ago, the bank assured me there would be no such types living here. I’d better call the police just in case.”
Wrong. Blacks are supposed to drive other people back from the airport. Even if they’re professors at Harvard. In fact, how’d he get a position on Harvard’s faculty in the first place?? It must be teh dreaded Affirmative Action!!* Is his driver white? OMG! I bet he and a group of ACORN thugs deprived that poor man of his true role in society and now taunts him by forcing him into a subservient role.
Oh well, I feel we should thank Bruce McCulloch’s twin sister for proving that racism is alive and well in the U.S.
*I’m willing to bet any amount of money some dipshit will make such a claim before the week is out.
The first report was wrong; the woman was not a neighbor, but someone who worked at Harvard Magazine (which also has offices on that street) and was coming back from lunch.
God dammit, now my hypothetical dialogue is obsolete.
Heath MacDonald is an academic troll who makes a living misrepresenting the statistical findings of cherry-picked scholarly studies to prove her point. To say her citation style is sloppy is a gross understatement. Read her articles on the criminal justice system and campus rape to get a good idea of how intellectually dishonest she is.
oh. I get it.
Even so, she worked there, he lived there. And they’re both Harvard-affiliated. She must have seen him before.
Considering how many mildly-unruly citizens have been tasered by police across North America, I suppose Gates should consider himself lucky.
Clearly, the cop was wrong. He alone had the power to defuse the situation. He chose instead to exacerbate.
If I’ve been reading up on this correctly, that’s just what the cop says. We definitely know that one or both of the cop and Gates are lying about some particulars. Why take the cop’s word for it?
Thanks for the explanation, Stephen, but I feel like there’s still a piece missing. I mean, a fact is something that actually happened, by definition. Facts don’t care what ideas we want to support.
The wingnut who cherry-picks and skews the facts is essentially saying that whatever is inside his/her head is more important than what is actually going on in the rest of the world. Which is a pretty good summary of wingnuttery, now that I think of it.
If I’ve been reading up on this correctly, that’s just what the cop says. We definitely know that one or both of the cop and Gates are lying about some particulars. Why take the cop’s word for it?
Yeah, that’s a fair point. I can’t really see why the cop would make it up out of thin air, but it’s entirely possible that he was playing it up. It’s possible Gates simply informed the cop he was a Harvard professor (which would be a reasonable thing to say under the circumstances) and the cop erroneously took it as a “you can’t touch me” kind of comment.
Even if the cop is telling the truth, there is no law against being a dick. This whole idea that if you insult (or even just ask a question of) a cop you should expect to get arrested annoys me to no end.
The cop refused to ID himself and then arrested Gates even after Gates had Identified himself.
Of course Crowley is fucking lieing.
The cop was legally required to ID himself and the simple fact that he refused to Identify himself to the NOW identified Homeowner and Harvard professor clearly demonstrates a complete disregard for what the Black Man standing in front of him has proven.
All of the Reports and Blog posts came after the event. Statements about what words were exchanged have to be put through that filter. Re-called memories.
The only clear evidence we have of the “Thinking” of the participants are their actions.
Gates cooperated, Crowley broke the law…
No no no no no NONO NO!!!! You don’t GET IT! Liberals who make enough money to live well are FRAUDS whereas conservatives who make so much money they use the rest of us as plastic pieces in a giant fucking game of Risk are “sensible.”
What I’m wondering, is what do these conservative think-tank institutions do outside of churn out fecal mash from hackwit scholars? How the fuck do they sustain themselves unless it’s just pure donations, and what in the hell are objective third parties supposed to think of a building full of chowderheads who do nothing but scribble lies at the behest of the wealthy?
“building full of chowderheads”
V. euphonious. Maybe not a band name, but certainly an album name.
Oh, and someone tell that lying fraud McDonald it’s “it is he who is engaged in racial stereotyping, not SHE,” and not “not her.” There’s no idiot like a credentialed idiot.
You know, I’m not convinced that racial animus had anything to do with Gates’ arrest. I feel like racism may have had something to do with the initial call to the police (“there’s a black man trying to jimmy open a door, send someone out”) and I’m pretty sure the history blacks have experienced with police had a lot to do with the way Gates responded to the cop when he showed up, but as for the arrest itself, I still put that down more to God with a Badge syndrome, in which certain cops think that citizens (of any color or gender) question their authori-tay, make an insulting comment, or anything else, then the cop has full latitude to fuck up that citizen’s day by hauling them in just for shits and grins. I also think that Gates was out of line for berating the cop as racist just because he showed up to check out a report a citizen phoned in. That’s his job, whether the “suspect” is black, white, Hispanic, male or female. It wasn’t the cop’s fault the report was called in, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t his choice to take the call to check it out – he just happened to be the one on duty who was closest by or whatever.
All that having been said, the cop acted stupidly in arresting the man in his own home after establishing that it was, in fact, his own home. But again, in my eyes that’s not cut and dried evidence that the cop is racist, but very compelling evidence that the cop has a God complex. He may be a racist, but the facts we know from the case don’t prove that. They do prove that he’s a jerk. I think it’s a shame that the whole thing turned into some big issue about race when it should have been about police abuse of authority.
The most racially revealing part of the whole incident is all the white conservatives who have run around insisting that the cop was acting properly by arresting someone simply for talking back. I’m 100% sure they wouldn’t have had that reaction if it had been a white guy arrested in his own home under the same set of circumstances. In fact, a lot of the same people who think the cop did nothing wrong are the ones who were foaming at the mouth over the ATF raiding the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, where they knew illegal weapons were being stockpiled. Then, it was an unconscienable invasion of privacy for law enforcement to even show up, and they deserved what they got, including being shot and killed by the people inside “defending” their home.
Shorter conservative defenders of police misconduct: A police state for thee, but not for me.
The wingnut who cherry-picks and skews the facts is essentially saying that whatever is inside his/her head is more important than what is actually going on in the rest of the world. Which is a pretty good summary of wingnuttery, now that I think of it.
This is a good summary of conservatives, evangelicals and fanatics in general. You start with a “know fact”, like “The Bible is the inerrant word of God”, or “Muslims are evil”, or “Social medicine is bad” or “tax-cuts always lead to greater prosperity”, or “Racism is a myth” or “Blacks are the real racists, and then you seek anecdotal “evidence” to “prove” your point, and ignore inconvenient facts. Liberals, scientists and other open-minded individuals, by contrast, observe actual facts, draw conclusions based on those facts, and seek ways to apply those conclusions toward solutions to problems. If those solutions don’t work, or other problems arrive, we go back to step one, observation, and repeat the process.
This infuriates those who already know “the truth”.
I have an extremely difficult time believing Crowley would have arrested an elderly White Harvard professor for calling him a moron and jack-ass.
Just sayin’,…
What I’m wondering, is what do these conservative think-tank institutions do outside of churn out fecal mash from hackwit scholars?
That’s all they need to do.
And their funding comes from the people who have inherited fortunes, such as the Olin family and the Coors. The return on lowered income tax rates alone make the investments of these modern day randroids worth it.
…You start with a “know fact”,..and then you seek anecdotal “evidence” to “prove” your point, and ignore inconvenient facts.”
I like to call that “Certainty Addiction.”
The all encompassing need for ‘Certainty’ drives their every breath.
The fact is, you liberals start with a “know fact”, like “The Bible is made up”, or “Muslims are great”, or “Social medicine is awesome” or “tax-cuts make poor people die”, or “Racism is why everything bad happens” or “Blacks are as intelligent as white people” and then you seek anecdotal “evidence” to “prove” your point, and ignore inconvenient facts. Consrvatives, scientists and other open-minded individuals, by contrast, observe actual facts, draw conclusions based on those facts, and seek ways to apply those conclusions toward solutions to problems. If those solutions don’t work, or other problems arrive, we go back to step one, observation, and repeat the process. Liberals suck.
Oh, fer fuck’s sake. Gates travels all the time, he takes car service (which, in Boston, is often cheaper than a metered taxi)
Not only that, but if you live in Cambridge you learn pretty quickly that a lot of the local cab companies can’t be counted on to show up when they’re supposed to. If we flew more, or lived farther from a cab stand, I expect we’d have a car service too. And we’re not exactly, y’know, wealthy.
I didn’t see in the police report where the witness described the two black men as “big”, but Gates is (according to one police report available online) 5’7″, 150 lbs and walks with a cane. If the witness did, in fact, describe him as big, she must see the boogeyman pretty much everywhere she looks.
Interesting that we don’t hear more about the woman who called the whole thing in. She’s apparently a fundraiser for Harvard Magazine, and the first google hit for her name is their fundraising page. Which, miraculously, doesn’t seem to have her name on it. Curious.
Oh sweet Jesus. Gary also wants to be a cut’n’paste troll. Unfortunately for the Ruptard, he’z doin it rong.
Hey Gary, “Dubya”.
You lose.
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Conservatives start with egregious straw man arguments, like, “The Bible is made up”, or “Muslims are great”, or “Social medicine is awesome” or “tax-cuts make poor people die”, or “Racism is why everything bad happens”, then coose to refute those straw mwn, rather than address actual positions they find uncomfortable debating.
“Consrvatives[sic], scientists and other open-minded individuals.”
They all look alike to her.
This just in from
subHuman Events:[…]
In wingnuttia, unlike comedy, timing is poorly understood.
40 brave ‘murikan patriots shout down 4 ACORN petitioners and think that’s something to brag about. Genius who made a video of the event uses song wherein the protagonist laments his inability to afford medicine despite working his ass off. Malkin breaks out thug label for what look like ordinary folks to me.
Gary Ruppert said,
…. Liberals suck.
Keep dreaming, Gare-bear, but no still means no.
She wasn’t a neighbor, she works down the street. Also, here’s his house, covered porch, large bushes; she may not have had a clear view even of their backs as they were turned toward the stuck door, and, considering the location and driveway markings, she might not have even known it was a personal residence. I guess I’m just not so sure we can denounce someone for racism because she called the cops when she saw two guys trying to shoulder in the door.
Proposed new slogan for teabaggers: “It takes ten of us to have the balls of one person.”
Isn’t this the point in this Cargo Cult Ritual where us “libs” are supposed to go ape shit over the complete disregard for the Sanctity of the American Flag?
But Holy fuck,… I love that “Captain Flaggy McFlag” outfit.
Better question to ask is what incentive the cop has to tell the truth at all? Here in FL asking “why” the officer wants to see your ID is “refusing to give an ID.”
fX’rd
IOKIYAR
OT, from Fox “News” on the abuse photos: “The photos depict clear instances of abuse — though not torture — that included beatings and in some cases deaths during battlefield detentions in Iraq from 2001-2006.”
Beatings are not torture? Even when they die?
tigrismus – exactly. That’s why I said racism “MAY HAVE HAD something to do” with the initial report. I saw owlbear upthread doubting that a white elderly Harvard professor would have been arrested…but if it was the right cop, yes, he would have been had he “sassed” the cop. Having been almost hauled in myself a couple of times for simply questioning bad cop behavoir, without using bad language, threats, or interfering with what they were doing, I know all too well that there are cops who feel like being questioned by a 5’5″ white woman is sufficient reason to fuck up your day. That of course doesn’t prove that the cop is NOT a racist, but the evidence is much stronger for “the cop is a jerk” than “the cop is a racist”.
It seems to me:
1) Calling the police to report a possible break-in is entirely reasonable.
2) The police responding to such a call is obviously necessary.
3) (and this is the crucial part) The homeowner getting angry at the fact that the police were called is also an entirely reasonable, understandable response, if perhaps not the ideal response in the situation.
Racism or not, arresting the homeowner for his very predictable response is the only clearly wrong action I see here.
Almost, isn’t actually you know Arrested.
And if that cop did haul in a white professor in the very same situation an abject apology would have been issued an hour after it happened.
I’ve been digging around and I haven’t seen any similar reports of elderly white Harvard Professors being arrested in their homes.
Funny how that works.
And does the liberal media mention that white 911 caller Lucien Whalen was only 2′ 3″? No, it’s because of the big-people bias of the M$M.
But sexism exists.
CUNT.
A $40 Town Car from the airport is a delicious nugget of a lifestyle? Dowhatnow? What is the Real American (Camaro Conservative?) way to get to the airport? Drive your Hummer and then park across 5 spaces in the short-term parking area? But if he had done that, it would be proof that global warming isn’t real. And if he didn’t get stopped while driving himself, that would be proof that the cops aren’t racists because they could’ve gotten his black ass earlier if they were. And the handicapped sticker that his car would have would be proof that we’ve already made special accommodations for him as a society and shouldn’t it really be one per customer on those sorts of things? Gates might be black and crippled but she is Canadian (a kind of disability, certainly) and Caucasian and you don’t see her asking for a special parking spot AND an entire month devoted to her history. Just the special spot would be fine.
So I guess that leaves paying $65 to take a regular taxi instead. $65! Imagine that! A liberal so used to being chauffeured around that he doesn’t know what us regular folks know, which is you can get a town car for just $40. And you get the same guy every time, so you don’t have to explain the fastest back-door route home, and the back rarely if ever smells like vomit. But I guess when you’re mentally sick with liberalism, you wouldn’t notice the physical sick around you. When you have limousine liberal money, you don’t choose the cheapest or fastest option. When you’re a pro-big government spendocrat, you don’t mind the extra inconvenience. (Look how Al Gore put that word right in the name of his movie. Liberal dog whistle!) Just like socialized medicine.
Breaking the law by refusing to give his name and badge number?
The existence of that noted anti-police organization the ACLU explains why racial profiling by the police is an enormous problem in Toronto. The ACLU made it all up…
Here is my pure speculation, but it would be irresponsible not to. In the police report Crowley says he was driving an unmarked administrative vehicle. So perhaps he has been given strictly administrative duties for some period of time and when the call came through and he happened to be closest to the address he saw his opportunity to get into the action, make a collar and be a “hero”. Upon his arrival it was immediately clear to him that there was no crime and no chance to be a hero. Then to add insult to injury the homeowner was hostile rather than thankful to the would be hero and that’s when the ego took over.
So 4 “ACORN affiliates” getting harassed outside the Stop and Shop is “ACORN’s Waterloo”?
What is it with people “meeting their Waterloo” with these people? Is there some historical-facts-that-can-be-used-as-clumsy metaphors-a-day calendar they all got for Christmas this year?
I once met my Waterloo, but you know, we just didn’t click.
If there is one thing that can be said about those anti-health care activists, it’s they are living the dream.
“…blacks were more likely than whites to be issued a ticket, to have their car searched, to be arrested and to have force used against them…”
And I doubt their attitudes -whether they are humble (respectful) or not- made much difference in how they are treated. It may well be well-to-do African Americans in expensive cars are treated worse than others.
Minimal teh googling suggests that much of Crowley’s job was community outreach, neighborhood watch stuff. Seems like a good possibility he’s out of practice with making a call. But he’s right in there with the blue line against the community schtick.
In my Utopiary, cops would alternate three years social work/community building with three years patrolling over the course of their career. And they’d start off on the social work.
OT Just sharing something I find mildly amusing. In my neck of the woods, money for the D.A.R.E. program has been pretty much taken out of the budget. So now they are begging for donations on the sidewalk. And the sidewalks they have chosen to hang out at are all in front of Walgreens drug stores, establishments that sell both drugs and alcohol.
The limousine comment pisses me off. As others have pointed out, it’s often cheaper than a taxi and if you have a regular driver you know/trust, it’s safer and more relaxing. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Harvard had an account with one or more car services (pretty much ensuring that it would be cheaper than a taxi). It’s just a fact of life in a lot of the Northeast metropolitan areas. It makes me mad that Mac Donald is paid for her ignorance. Like Upton Sinclair said: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”
money for the D.A.R.E. program has been pretty much taken out of the budget.
Wow – I hadn’t realized the war on drugs would be won so quickly!
But seriously, did somebody somewhere finally nut up and admit that that authoritarian crap wasn’t working, or what?
Hell, if Gates had his own helicopter, pilot, landing spot, and personal courier service, that wouldn’t change anything about the story. That wouldn’t change whether his political ideas are correct. Indeed, how he gets to and from his house is completely irrelevant. So the limousine comment is not just incorrect, it’s also just a brainless snipe by someone trying to score wingnut welfare points.
They don’t seem to have a comments section after her column. Gee, why don’t they want reader feedback?
Oh, DARE. I remember you. The officer you sent to our classroom was later accused of molesting female juvie inmates. Good times, good times.
I’m not sure of the generational distribution here, but did anyone else who was subjected to DARE find themselves more curious about drugs after the program than before? I mean, you spend weeks being told how drugs are bad, drugs will ruin your life, drugs will kill you… you start to wonder what’s so great about them, that people will go to such lengths to get high.
And for us, “high” was never defined. No one would explain to me what being “high” was like. Even then, I though one day I would just have to find out.
As G. Gordo said, “Head shots. Head shots. Kill the fuckers.” Next time Gates had better be packin.
And since I’m in chatterbox mode, what’s up with the names of all these anti-drug campaigns? There’s DARE, REBEL (“Reaching Everyone By Exposing Lies”, an anti-smoking campaign), DEFY (“Drug Education For Youth,”), probably others.
It’s like they’re shouting, “We’re cool! We’re anti-authoritarian, like you kids! YES WE ARE!!! WE ARE COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I heard they want to institute a St. Ronnie memorial anti-drug campaign called DEIFY. Oh, no, wait, they just want to deify him in general. I was WONDERING what the “consistently pristine smell of his hair treatment” had to do with narcotics.
I’m not sure of the generational distribution here, but did anyone else who was subjected to DARE find themselves more curious about drugs after the program than before?
I was in high school when Nancy first burbled “Just Say No!” and in college and being a big pothead when the really hideous moralist / triumphalist GHWB-era shit was getting underway – so I can’t really comment, but it always struck me as counterproductive. Like you say, having cops come around and bellow that they’re anti-establishment hipsters is pretty absurd.
I have some late-eighties antidrug lit lying around someplace, which I collected because I thought the stereotypes of drug users in it would one day look like the caricatures of Japanese people from WWII. Not quite as extreme, but pretty crazy. And it’s amazing how pervasive those stereotypes are even among people on the liberal side of the issue, even today.
Don’t take “drugs” when you’re young because it can screw up your development and leave you stupid or a runt.
Don’t abuse “drugs” when you’re an adult because it’s fucking expensive.
m,kay?
owlbear1 – that’s about all they’d really need to teach, innit.
Could modify the curriculum a bit for rich kids, I suppose.
So Tintin, much as I like to agree with you on stuff it looks like you may have done a bit of bad statistics yourself — if Cruella DeVille is citing that report accurately, it says that black *drivers* are stopped at a rate similar to white drivers. The fact that fewer black people own or drive cars wouldn’t enter into it.
Of course, the fact that once stopped, black drivers are more likely than whites to be ticketed, searched, arrested, have their tail light smashed with a nightstick and then get a ticket for having a busted tail light, and be called “boy” really undermines the whole “we live in a post-racial society” claim.
Could modify the curriculum a bit for rich kids, I suppose.
…and stop all that ‘trickling down’?
Let’s not forget that for someone like Heather car ownership would be meaningless, cause everone knows that if a black man is driving it it’s probably stolen.
…and stop all that ‘trickling down’?
Hm. Maybe we could increase it by saying that if you must use drugs as a (rich) adult, you should be sure to bring enough for everybody.
The cop mentality, of which there is an inexhaustible reservoir in the population, is what has to be eliminated. They think of themselves like the dominant males in a baboon troop, and any individual they encounter is supposed to perform some ritual of abasement before them, or they’ll make them pay for it. Of course, in evolutionary terms, what you’re doing is presenting yourself to be mounted. (If you’re a woman, you’re supposed to just do that as a matter of course.)
That said, Gates did seem to behave like something of a dick, but if I had a gimpy leg and just got off a plane from fucking China, I probably would too. And the cop might, and I stress might have had second thoughts about arresting him if he’d been white, but sometimes their need for this dominance/abasement ritual, which they crave like a drug, swamps all other considerations.
The only person I’ll unreservedly defend is the woman who called 911. As I understand it, she just worked at a building at the end of the block, and was walking by. Even if she knew Gates by sight (unknown), she probably didn’t know where he lived, and my understanding is he had let himself in the back and was working on the door from the inside, so all she saw was the driver trying to pry the door open from the outside. I think calling that in was totally reasonable.
The study defined drivers as “anyone who operates a vehicle a few times a year or more.” That’s a pretty broad definition and wouldn’t factor out the differences in time on the road between those who own motor vehicles and those who don’t. It’s reasonable to assume, given the disparity in vehicle ownership, that blacks spend less time on the road and should account for much less of the traffic stops than whites..
Gates’ NEIGHBOR, a PERSON THAT LIVES IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO HIM, doesn’t know him well enough/doesn’t want to know him well enough to distinguish him from the other garden variety marauding negroes that infest her street?
I think the woman who called police was not in fact a neighbor, but someone who worked in the vicinity. In any case, when you see someone you don’t recognize force his way into a house, calling the police is a perfectly understandable, even laudable, reaction. It’s not this lady’s fault that that dumbass cop went off the rails.
So Gates is the very first Harvard Professor to call a local cop a moron and a jackass after a bad day? If it were simply the dominance ritual at play I’d think there would already be a record of white professors being hauled in for being “dicks”.
I’m not sure of the generational distribution here, but did anyone else who was subjected to DARE find themselves more curious about drugs after the program than before?
I don’t think it was DARE at the time, but when I was in elementary school (4th grade, maybe?) the local police liaison to the schools burned a dish full of marijuana leaves so that we’d know what it smelled like and could leave any situation where we detected the scent (or more likely, so that kids could more effectively rat their parents out). I don’t think it really had the effect they would have hoped. Did this happen anywhere else, or is that just a rural Oregon thing?
Hell, I recognized Gates when I ran into him at the Andover shop and I don’t even attend harvard. He was really nice though, and helped me pick out a tie for my dad.
Did this happen anywhere else, or is that just a rural Oregon thing?
I’m sure that if this had happened in my elementary school, I would have remembered it.
(Come to think of it, I was in college when Ronnie was elected…so never mind.)
P.S. D.A.R.E.
~
I am so old.
So old that I was subjected to the first wave of Nixonian drug education, a special week of events in my sixth grade Science class. It included film strips (remember them? No? I didn’t think so) about how demented you would become if you experimented with a broad range of psychoactive products from acid to glue.
I don’t think it worked.
Saw a great bumpersticker once, in Maine, in the original font that said:
D.A.R.E To waste taxpayer dollars.
If you’ve made it to old age some of them must of taken hold.
Hmm, not sure how I became anonymous. Anyway, I know the cop that does the DARE program at my local school loves it because he gets to drive the car. The Dare car is usaully the coolest sports car that they’ve confiscated in a drug bust. They paint with the DARE logo and the DARE cop gets to drive it to the school and in parades and such.
I love the fact that DARE is reduced to having bake sales now. That, my friends, is change we can believe in.
I used to see those DARE bumperstickers on cars back in the 80”s and I had the idea to make my own sticker that said:
DARE to keep Dogs Off Rugs!
But I never did.
Would probably be a rich republican by now…..
Years ago when DARE was new and a big deal I had friends who had a child in middle school. They kept the kid out of DARE. He did play in the school band. They related to me with great amusement a tale of a school function in which the band participated. The function’s purpose was to hype the DARE program. When the DARE kids came out with their t-shirts and banners the band played Chicago’s 25 or 6 to 4. My friends were slightly disappointed that they didn’t play Purple Haze to end the evening.
Most people I know can’t even keep the dog(s) off the couch.
The fact is, most black people are not that smart.
Gary, get a fuckin’ job.
The fact is,
most black people areGary is not that smart.Whenever I see Heather MacDonald, I feel a slight twinge of shame, because she’s one of only two even remotely famous people from my prep school class. (The other is actress Dana Delaney.)
o/t
Link
I will not link to what this Rabbi allegedly did during his regular child abuse operations, but It aint good.
Gates undoubtedly means to imply
And she would know this how?
Don’t argue with owlbear1, he’ll just get frustrated when you don’t fit into his idea of what you should be(us V them), call you a racist and then return triumphant to the Land of Azeroth™ to regale night elf dancers with tales of his heroism for the cause of civil rights while reclining on a field verdant.
This.
the local police liaison to the schools burned a dish full of marijuana leaves so that we’d know what it smelled like
My mother taught second grade, and at one point told me (in a tone designed to inform me that she knew what it smelled like) that this had happened. I don’t know (and doubt) if they did this for second graders. This would have been mid-1970s around my end-of-high-school, start-of-college time. I was probably a moderate partaker at the time (including at home).
What I find odd is the sheer number of people who have bought into the whole “Pot is bad bad bad and will turn you into an addicted crack-dealing hooker” thing. You’d think that anyone with any experience with it at all would know better.
My parents pretty much said, “It’s illegal, and getting arrested sucks, so we’d rather you not do it.,” which is at least honest.
They even said the extraneous punctuation.
valkyr of science, you might need to watch out for that, extraneous punctuation can be hereditary.
WTF, That guy is like a real life Bender! Not in a good way, obviously.
Back on topic, what are the odds that a black man having ID in his back pocket would have been shot in a similar situation?
I second ITTDGY’s link. We do need effective anti-drug education in schools, but preferably without the creeping classism and racism that has wound up in DARE.
duh, I meant a working class black man.
Niggiz is the new Jews.
To Sarah:
Best wishes and thanks for the mammaries!
Blacks in dress shirts are the blackshirts of liberal fascism.
I will not link to what this Rabbi allegedly did
Which rabbi?
The one saying ‘you’ll give us a kidney or you’ll never go home.’
Yes, a Rabbi!
Um… just to kind of clear up one point here… Dr. Gates doesn’t appear to have identified Sgt. Crowley’s behavior as based in racist attitudes until after he had presented his identification and the sergeant was still questioning him as to what he was doing there. Inasmuch as one can say that any of the documentation of the incident is accurate, both accounts, Sgt. Crowley’s and Dr. Gates’s, appear to agree on that. Given prior history–hell, even I know the Cambridge cops have a reputation for profiling–it would not seem the most unusual thing in the whole wide world for Sgt. Crowley to continue to press the matter even after Dr. Gates presented identification that confirmed his claim that he was indeed the resident, nor would I fall to the ground prostrate with astonishment to hear the head of the DuBois Center speculate that the sergeant’s continued pursuit of an occasion for arrest was based in bigotry.
I’ve read Sgt. Crowley’s report of the incident, and it’s very, VERY carefully structured to cover his questionable decisions. It’s almost as though he took what he had learned to present in the racial profiling classes and used it to craft a plausible reason for the arrest. Imagine that.
My take is this: the response to the burglary-in-progress call was already compromised at the time Sgt. Crowley approached the house, because nowhere in his report does he indicate that he had bothered to find out the name of the legal resident before approaching. He had time to do so–he responded to the call, then waited for backup to arrive before approaching–but apparently made no attempt to learn the identity of the occupant of the house. At that point, whether it’s a technical foul to the Cambridge PD or not, he’s already screwed up his response to the call, and the best thing for him to do when he realizes he’s messed up in front of a Harvard prof is to maneuver the guy into a position where he can be arrested. That way, when Dr. Gates raises his entirely understandable fuss over being persecuted after he had already clearly established his right to be in the house, Sgt. Crowley can say, “Well, of course the guy is going to claim harrassment–after all, I had to arrest him!”
Just his luck that Sgt. Crowley had to jack with one of the world’s most respected, most highly credentialed experts on abuse of government power aimed at the African-American community. Then again, his name floors me: “Jim Crow-ley”. Perhaps it was fate?
Earlier this year, we saw “African American Lives” on PBS, and one segment has stayed with me since. Morgan Freeman had heard that there was a relationship in his ancestry between a white man and an African-American woman, and was quite bitter about it: “I can’t pretend it didn’t happen,” I recall him saying, and the look of shame and anger in his face was heartbreaking. Dr. Gates and his team researched the Freeman family history, and at the conclusion of the segment, Dr. Gates laid a photograph before Mr. Freeman. It was a picture of the graves of the couple–right next to one another. He was able to prove to Mr. Freeman that the relationship he saw as originating in an abuse of power was, in fact, a courageous love match between people who were breaking both law and custom to be together, and who lie together still.
Dr. Gates is not a person who lives on the surface, and I hope Sgt. Crowley takes this opportunity to learn something beyond what he’s evidently been teaching the Cambridge cops. I wouldn’t want the inciting incident to be some crap I’d started, but I’d love to have the chance to have a beer with Dr. Gates and the President and hear what they have to say.
Has anyone, by the way, remarked on Pres. Obama’s ability to speak about racial profiling in Cambridge from his own experience? I know it would be rude and invasive and indefensible to sneak a camera into that (justifiably private) meeting, but… what a chance that would be!
Yes, a Rabbi!
Silly Rabbi! Kidneys are for tricks!
“Pot is bad bad bad and will turn you into an addicted crack-dealing hooker” thing. You’d think that anyone with any experience with it at all would know better.
exactly, and when these kids try pot, and find it mostly innocuous, they also wonder what other drugs they have been lied to about….
It’s like the abstinence kids becoming sexually over-active…
Turley calls Rosenbaum a rabbi. Where does he get this information?
Blacks, you see, are supposed to take the bus back from the airport.
Sure they don’t mean the -back- of the bus?
My dad was a combat vet, and I have a tale about this subject. Some friends and I were going into a bar with live music, sort of seedy, more than seedy, the dregs. And the bartender points to my friend and says “We don’t serve that kind in here, you have to leave.” And my friend says “I’m not a droid, I’m a cyborg.” And they get into the whole long discussion about if he’s enough organic to be in the bar. I mean really! And finally this guard fella wants to see his papers and I say “You don’t need to see his papers, you’re not looking at a droid.” And so then he says that just having some organic in you doesn’t make you live, that the ‘la-dee-da-Daleks are always claiming they’re not droids when they hover around live folks, but ever’body can see they’s as metal as a spade’. Well, finally, everybody gets all settled down, for a while anyway.
Good point J, now I’m confused, Is he or isn’t he?
My mother taught second grade, and at one point told me (in a tone designed to inform me that she knew what it smelled like) that this had happened. I don’t know (and doubt) if they did this for second graders. This would have been mid-1970s around my end-of-high-school, start-of-college time. I was probably a moderate partaker at the time (including at home).
My elementary school experience would have been right in the middle of the 1980s, so it was splat in the middle of the “Just Say No” years. But there were a lot of kids who didn’t realize that the leaves won’t do much for you who made extra sure they got a good whiff. Y’know, just so they could be sure they’d know it in the future. Again, probably not the terrifying effect the officer was going for.
I will say, my brother and I wandered off into the forest a lot (we were right on the edge of town, and why ride your BMX bike on the street?), and my dad made damned sure we knew what the plants looked like. That was more for “turn straight around and get the hell out of there” purposes. Not really safe to stumble upon someone’s patch.
The AP story Turley links says Rosenbaum is “a member of the Orthodox Jewish community in the Borough Park section of Brooklyn.” It also says the politicians and rabbis arrested in the wider federal investigation have not been accused of running organs.
I went to college in a small Wisconsin town (and I KNOW this sounds like the start of a Penthouse letter) and lived in a house on Main Street for a while (really!) we would sit on the porch, not quite in the front but still clearly visible from the street, and clean our stash. Throwing the seeds over the railing into the bushes.
Eventually, of course, some rather impressive plants grew up, getting 4 or five feet tall.
The cops in this small town never recognized them.
Like I said, not a Penthouse story. Maybe High Times.
D.A.R.E… to do what you’re told.
The Rabbi needs to take a page out of Jack Thompson’s and scientology’s playbooks, claim harvesting human organs as part of his religion. Sure it didn’t work for either of them but this is the dance he chose to dance and dance it he must! If people went around not finishing their dances we’d have footprint silhouettes all over the place and I for one am sick of tripping over things!
(Social) Science Made Stupid.
I couldn’t care less about this whole TIAT, but doesn’t MacDonald’s use of ‘stop rate’ make the inequality of car ownership into a moot point?
Is this statistical FAIL on my part, or what?
[Tintin adds: people who own cars drive more than people who don’t, so the lower ownership rate means that even though blacks on the whole drive less than whites they get stopped as much.]
Mark Steyn vs. graphs.
More Science Made Stupid. The picture of the dumb dinosaurs is one of my favourites ever.
Silly Rabbi! Kidneys are for tricks!
Wins the internets for the whole weekend, at least
exactly, and when these kids try pot, and find it mostly innocuous, they also wonder what other drugs they have been lied to about….
…which is precisely why, when speaking to my now-17-year-old niece about drugs over the past few years, I’ve been very clear in telling her that just because some policeman comes into your school and tells you that everyone who tries pot ends up as a heroin addict and he’s full of shit on that point, he’s not full of shit when he tells you that meth and cocaine are very, very bad news. And followed up with, look, most of the people I know have at least tried pot, and none of them are addicts. That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to do; some people don’t seem to have any problem with it, but others do. It is, however, illegal and getting busted isn’t anyone’s idea of a good time. So proceed at your own risk. And stay the fuck away from meth and anyone who does meth.
My sister, predictably, interpreted this as “you told her it was OK to smoke pot!” My response was, “did not.”
eminently reasonable advice, Jennifer.
Advice which WordPress apparently ignored, because it is acting all meth-addled…
The problem with tacking pot onto the list of eeeevil druuuugs has always been that no one can point to anything particularly bad about it, except for the fact that it’s illegal. The effects of meth are readily identifiable–just look at the pictures the smoking gun posted showing “before and after” mugshots of users who were busted a few months apart. The transformation is horrible and shocking: within a short period of time, an ordinary, or even attractive person is transformed into a hollow-eyed, skeletal shadow, with open sores covering the face. Anyone who has witnessed a friend succumb to meth addiction is familiar with what it does to their personality. A friend of mine referred to this as “instant asshole–just add meth.” Likewise, drugs like heroin and cocaine are potential killers; there’s a good reason these are illiegal. In the meantime, the worst thing that will happen to you if you dabble in the doobie is that you’ll get busted.
The picture of the dumb dinosaurs is one of my favourites ever.
I like the skunkosaur. Also the dinosaurs playing chess.
Tell all the people who go to rehab for pot that it’s harmless. Tell all the people that attend Marijuana Anonymous meetings or AA meetings because they can’t stop smoking it on their own. It may not have as quick of an impact as meth or cocaine on a person’s life but it’s not innocuous. I wish.
You know, when my car didn’t work, or when coming back from the airport, I often ordered a taxi or rented a car. I enjoy driving, so having a driver is silly, tho it doesn’t cost that much more… People like Gates or my spouse can continue working or sleeping while riding, so a driver saves them lots of money.
But even so, using a taxi service to get groceries home from Costco, I still got the same driver five out of ten times, and could’ve requested the same driver had I thought about it in advance.
So uh… Yeah.
OK, fine, it’s not “innocuous”, but it’s a damn sight safer than alcohol, not to mention all the legal prescription drugs that are out there. The point is, by feeding kids some updated version of “Reefer Madness” , we lose credibility that we need if we’re going to steer them away from the really nasty stuff.
Tintin said,
The study defined drivers as “anyone who operates a vehicle a few times a year or more.” That’s a pretty broad definition and wouldn’t factor out the differences in time on the road between those who own motor vehicles and those who don’t. It’s reasonable to assume, given the disparity in vehicle ownership, that blacks spend less time on the road and should account for much less of the traffic stops than whites..
I’m not sure how you’re getting from your A to your B. The study’s consistent with several interpretations, the one that involves the least fiddling with data is that there’s little different in traffic stops based solely on race. Your interpretation require assuming that (a) the definition of “driver” really does create differences in mileage based on race; (b) the study’s respondents did reflect, on average, different mileage driven by race; (c) the difference in mileage was reflected in different numbers of traffic stops; and (d) various statistical dealies dealing with the shape of the curve didn’t matter (in particular, having lots of “close to zero” mileage is going to mess up the shape of the curve.)
There’s lots of wrong with what’s she’s doing, but I’m not so sure she’s misinterpreting this study.
What I’m wondering, is what do these conservative think-tank institutions do outside of churn out fecal mash from hackwit scholars? How the fuck do they sustain themselves unless it’s just pure donations, and what in the hell are objective third parties supposed to think of a building full of chowderheads who do nothing but scribble lies at the behest of the wealthy?
Their function as semiotic septic-tanks is vital to maintaining the status quo – if the owners of society can’t get a few whores with Ph.D.s to back up their bogosity they lose any shadow of credibility. In MacDonald’s case, credibility & intellectual rigor is a trivial toll for an easy gig that keeps her in frumpy suit-coats with a full belly for as long as she can keep bloviating.
Sadly (much like people will take a cop’s “word of honor” as gospel, even after the videotape shows he or she is a lying sack of offal), many if not most folks think that if the purveyor of deranged nonsense has an advanced degree, even if it’s in a totally unrelated discipline, that degree’s magical alchemical powers somehow transform said bullshit into gold. “Trickle-down theory” comes to mind … “Unitary Executive” is a pretty hilarious one too.
Conservatives & liberals alike fall prey to confirmation bias, but liberals tend to view it as a flaw, while conservatives are more likely to view it as additional proof.
Appeals to authority are a kind of logical fallacy – but just try getting a conservative to accept this as a fact & watch the hilarity ensue.
I remember reading that pot was criminalized in the first place by using a very large dose of “it turns scary black men into scary black supermen who will rape our wimmen!”
If I remember correctly, that would mean Fear of a Black Planet = I can’t get high at splash mountain.
I remember reading that pot was criminalized in the first place by using a very large dose of “it turns scary black men into scary black supermen who will rape our wimmen!”
Close. The very first pot laws in the country were local ordinances in TX and other states bordering Mexico. Part of it was cultural fear and ignorance, part of it was that criminalizing a recreational drug that the migrant farm/field/ranch workers used that white homesteaders didn’t offered an easy way crack down on the brown folks. Before that, it was anti-opium ordinances in San Francisco that targeted Chinese immigrants for much the same reasons (keep in mind this was a time when you could get Laudanum over the counter and morphine rigs from the Sears catalog). The Reefer == Scary Negro trope you mention came later.
But, yeah, a common theme through every wave of new drug laws has been the ginned-up fear that Drug X was leading to miscegenation between the targeted ethnic/racial group and your precious, virginal lily-white daughter.
Really???
Seriously???
I’m not sure anymore. I mean, I know irony is dead, and all, but wow.
They don’t make enough Windex to clean that motherfucker’s house.
I’ll see your racial profiling and raise you one Holocaust:
http://www.plumbbobblog.com/?p=5188
Illustrated.
Yeah, it’s just Betsy McCaughey-style crap about Obama killing granny but, whozza. I guess if you believed that the whole bill was going to be misread as much as McCaughey misreads the bit about living wills, you’d wanna, you know, stop Hitler, or leave the country, or, I dunno, arm granny or something.
…Fear of a Black Planet…I can’t get high at splash mountain…
Narrowcasting but, whoa, very narrow. Gary Ruppert narrow. All of the hospitals/clinics/labs I go to to are as diverse as, say, the army or the post office. Adding racial/ethnic diversity to health care–a fairly minor goal of ObamaCare–would mean, where I live, hiring a bunch of, doh, Christian white guy health workers.
The “get whitey” talking point is the rhetorical equivalent of wearing a white t-shirt with “Fear of a Black Planet” printed in white on the front and “Splash Mountain” in giant black letters on the back to show your support for, I dunno, a Krishnacore musical about Jim Crow. Take a number. Next.
…Seriously???…
Nixon goes to China, etc. Lord Saletan? Saint Kristol! He’s either a fool or a saint. He walks among the ruins without human concerns. Barefoot.
Oh, and I’ll see your racial profiling and raise you one Holocaust:
http://www.plumbbobblog.com/?p=5188
Illustrated.
Yeah, it’s just Betsy McCaughey-style crap about Obama killing granny but, whozza. I guess if you believed that the whole bill was going to be misread as much as McCaughey misreads the bit about living wills, you’d wanna, you know, stop Hitler, or leave the country, or, I dunno, arm granny or something.
This clearly references the oppressive deification of male-gaze hetero normative modes of synthesis in a semiotic blancmange of post-structural teakettle barbecue hatstand fishmonger.
“And their funding comes from the people who have inherited fortunes, such as the Olin family and the Coors.”
And those are not just any fortunes, neither. Coors is better known, as the purveyors of pisswater swill, made from the aquifer below the Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant — by minimum-wage recipients, no less. (I had the displeasure of meeting a student from that family in my university days, and I do believe the other hammers had expelled him from their bag, for giving the rest of them a bad rep’.)
Olin owns the cigarette-paper factory in North Carolina. I went to Summer camp there once, to escape the pollution of New York City, and found the truly disgusting scent of that plant wafting over the picturesque valley where the camp sat. For someone raised on the odors of (pre-EPA) New Jersey, it was still a revolting stench which made camp breakfasts a unique challenge in retention.
Yep, this wingnut welfare-queen proudly takes money from drug dealers to push racism. What’s not to like, really?
In mantis-shrimp-related activities, a chap has just finished his talk on “The molecular genetics of color and polarization in stomatopod crustaceans”.
He describes mantis shrimps as “vicious, violent and vindictive… during the Bush years [he] thought the country was being run by stomatopods.”
Conclusion: They have “the most ridiculous color-vision system ever to evolve”.
I now return you to your normally-scheduled semiotic blancmange of post-structural teakettle barbecue hatstand fishmonger.
I’m as big a fan as stream of consciousness as you’re likely to find but for the life of me I can’t figure out what you’re saying. I recognize all those words but your post makes no sense to me.
Sure thing there Sparky, Gates is the bigot for bringing up racism on his blog. What would Crowley have to do to demonstrate his bigotry? Scream, “Hands on your head, coon!” , “Hey Boy! What you doing in this house?”
BTW, It’s Trollops I woo and it’s my pop-locking feats of legerdemain that leaves them sighing for more, dweeb.
Smut, this is yet another example of why I treasure your comments so: the linking of stomatopods with the Bush regime is absolutely priceless, and I bow before your inestimable taste and intelligence.
Tincture: I’m with you, although I was far too insecure to say it.
By the way, I’m surprised more people haven’t latched onto the “Gates-gate” nomenclature – it’s quite the perfect recursive form that might finally put an end to the passion for calling everything “Thing-gate”.
Just saying it makes me giggle.
Me mad! Me smash! Me no need know what me talking about! ME SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH!
Joe Klein already ruined it for everybody, Just Alison.
Yep, sure thing smassh, gnassh.
What does Crowley have to do in order to earn the same label as Gates?
Well, some evidence of racist behaviour would be a good way to show there was racist behaviour, that is, doing something actually racist instead of just majorly dickish. Though after the short time you and I have spent together, I fully expect you to not understand the distinction.
http://www.intheagora.com/archives/2009/07/stupid_disorderly_conduct_laws/
tl;dr They’re both dicks. Gates is allowed to be one in his own home, Crowley is not.
Crowley gets to break the law and ignore Gate’s identification and Gates is the bigot for then ‘bringing up racism’ after is this just done to him. That is what you are saying tincture.
the linking of stomatopods with the Bush regime is absolutely priceless,
I can’t take credit for the association. Must credit T. M. Cronin.
I have just been listening to an explanation from another speaker about how Papilio butterflies use microstructure and photonic bandgap structures to make the colour than is blacker than black.
owlbear1,
No it’s not. I never said anything like that, do you even read other people’s posts or just use the time thinking of what drivel you’re going to post next?. You’re still acting like I ever excused what the cop did. You’ve had this shit explained to you several times, you’re either a fucking moron or a fucking liar. You’re harshing my super-happy-fun-time w/ your idiocy. Go away and take your strange and misplaced terms of affection (sparky, wtf?) w/ you.
I think it would be hard to make a convincing argument that Gates wasn’t acting racist during the event. His own version of events shows his bias. Cops abusing their power are complete fuckwads. Gates is just a racist fuckwad.
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/23409.html#comment-954509
Are you saying you were nymjacked?
the linking of stomatopods with the Bush regime is absolutely priceless,
I can’t take credit for the association. Must credit T. M. Cronin.
Cronin also reckoned that mantis shrimps diverged from other crustaceans so long ago, and evolved separately so far, that they’re “more like Martians that pass among us and kill things.”
I think he rather admires them…
I’m saying it’s like we’re using two different languages, I’m using English and you’re using Fucking Moron.
How is it i give you 2 + 2 every single time but you keep coming up w/ 5? No, wait. Don’t answer that.
Are you going to get around to actually answering the question or a you just looking for attention?
owlbear1: What does Crowley have to do in order to earn the same label as Gates?
Well, first, to set the scenario up properly, Crowley has to get a PhD and join the faculty of a university. Then one fine day he has to “break in” to his own house. Then
ProfessorPatrolman Gates has to come over to Crowley’s house in response to a neighbor calling in a suspected burglary (for all this to work, by the way, Gates would have to take up a second career as a police officer). Then even after Crowley demonstrates that he is, indeed the home-owner in his own house, Gates must arrest him and take him to jail on a manufactured technicality anyway. Then Crowley will have “earned the same label as Gates.”Works for me, plus they could carpool.
…I recognize all those words but your post makes no sense to me…
Good point! The current “when minorities take over health care, watch out whitey!” talking point makes no sense either. I’m glad we got that out of the way.
However, I more or less understand what’s going down with the “Obama’s gonna kill granny” talking point. Apparently, just saying “living will” out loud once every five years kills off all the old folks. Yup, that’s what happens to them. I bet you were wondering.
So there.
So as long as Crowley doesn’t scream any racial slurs or mention race he can’t ever be a true racist fuckwad like Gates.
Is that the line?
owlbear – others here have said they don’t see clear cut evidence that this incident was racially motivated. I’m one of them. Not every instance involving a white person and a black person in which the black person gets the short end of the stick are racially motivated (the same goes for the reverse situation). Racism is one specific form of being a dick. It seems everyone is in agreement that the police officer was guilty of dickism, but not everyone sees the fact that the officer was white and the victim was black as absolute proof that the officer is a racist. The reason being that the officer didn’t seek out the situation to begin with, we’ve heard no evidence that he used racial epithets during the encounter, and we’ve been presented with no evidence that the officer has shown a pattern of racial bias in the past. The officer may indeed be a racist, but some of us don’t think that just the fact that he is white and the victim was black is sufficient evidence to conclude that racism was the motivation here. Add to that the fact that most of us have experience or knowledge of policemen throwing their weight around and arresting people for no good reason, regardless of the skin color of the two parties involved, and you come up with the conclusion that reasonable people who are not blind to the racism in society can look at this and say “I’m not sure race played a factor in the cop’s behavoir in this particular incident.”
You may disagree, as is your right. I would have to say that your interpretation, to me, looks rather reductionist. It’s as if you were looking out a window and saw a woman running down the street screaming, and saw a man 30 feet behind her running the same direction, and concluded that the woman is running from the man, based on just what you saw. But perhaps they’re a couple out for a walk and as they rounded the corner, saw that their house was on fire. Or perhaps they don’t know each other; the woman is upset about something and the man is just out for a jog and happened to be running in the same direction. You can’t know for a fact from just seeing the two of them running past the window exactly what is going on.
To wit, you should recognize that a reasonable person could interpret this situation differently than you have, for all the reasons listed above.
You’re right, that does make no sense. The words of death dealy is kinda disturbing. Think it can be anytime once every five years or has to be when the moon i in a specific spot, like when raising Count Duckula? Either way I think somebody should warn the old folk.
Damnit that last thing was @ thetragicsongwildfire!
Jennifer nailed it though.
Gates appears to be kind of a dick, with his whole “do you have any idea who I am” retort which seems to indicate some elitism going on
Or he could know, like I would, that the cops know who lives at his address, and ought to know that he’s a bit of a celebrity who’s been on the TeeVee more than a few times, so is entitled to try to break into his own home.
Just a thought.
…entitled to try to break into his own home…
Now, we’re talking. Gates was “entitled” to break into his own home by affirmative action, the Great Society, and Clinton’s dick. It’s a wonder he didn’t drive a Cadillac through the front door.
…I think somebody should warn the old folk…
Well, don’t startle them by saying “living will” out loud. Use gentle terms like, oh, euthanasia or mercy killing.
Jennifer, the cop broke the law when he refused to identify himself. After he had already been given Gates’ identification.
If I understand your rules correctly, Crowley would have to have said something like, “Bullshit Nigger I ain’t buying it” in addition to completely ignoring the Harvard Professor standing in front of him in his own kitchen?
Jennifer could you provide me with evidence of a even a single white Harvard Professor who has been hauled in this fashion?
Standard point in situations like this: terms like “racially motivated” and “racist” tend to imply active prejudice on the cop’s part. I don’t think everyone who claims this is a race issue is suggesting that. Myself, I think there’s a strong argument that whites (and cops especially) tend to be more suspicious of the motivations and behaviors of blacks. It’s possible for this baseline cultural prejudice to have affected Crowley’s decisions without his being David Duke or thinking “boy, I’m going to show that uppity black what for, I tell you what.”
It’s more like this: cops are less likely to lay off when they feel someone’s being mouthy, disrespectful, and/or disruptive, while whites are more likely to perceive equivalent behavior from blacks as disrespectful and/or disruptive than from whites. That’s how you get a situation like this without conscious racism on the cop’s part.
One of the real failings of our national discussion on race (to cynically use a term of no real meaning) is that we seem to regard racism as a purely individual, active, aberrant state of mind rather than a shared part of our culture. This makes it a lot difficult to call out and eliminate racist behavior in the vast majority of Americans who aren’t actually white supremacists. Regardless of whether it’s intended, saying “that was a racist thing to do/say” tends to be received as “where’s your hood, cracker?”
owlbear, no one has argued that the cop acted properly. Not here, anyway. The issue is that you want to insist that there is only ONE possible explanation for the way this played out. Other people think the evidence doesn’t conclusively prove that ONE explanation, that in fact, there could be other explanations. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible that your assumption is correct; only that based on what we know, your assumption is not the only possible explanation.
At this point, you’re just being willfully obtuse.
Thank you Djur, you nailed that quite eloquently.
Anybody need some Ham? I’ve got fist-fulls of it.
Actually I was trying to get to a point. I concede Crowley’s incompetence is a huge factor in this issue, I agree Gates was a dick. What I was trying to get at is that not every bigot uses bad words and that simply bringing up racism is not a racist act.
And I am trying to find that line? The line when an action becomes racism. Not words, but actions.
Jennifer,
Crowley, racial profiling educator, in a situation that he should be aware is charged with potential race issues – does fuck all to defuse the situation.
He’s gets called a racist and a bigot and who knows what else. This hits him so hard that in order to save face, he arrests an old man who walks with a cane for “being loud on your own front porch”.
Is he a “God with a Badge” asshole? Absolutely yes. Is he a racist? From my reading, very likely the worst kind – the “some of my friends are black/hispanic/gay” kind. The kind who when accused of racism – has a story ready about how there was this one black guy who…
A non-racist cop would have recognized the dynamic and been especially careful to avoid the conflict. Would have known the response from Gates wasn’t coming from nowhere.
But otherwise, I agree with you that the Cop With Attitude problem is (in this specific case) a more serious issue than the race issue.
An innumerate statistician, interesting.
Basically,
racist : cop :: black people : all non-cops
As long as they receive deferential treatment, they’re almost civil, but they’re always looking for an excuse.
Tintin, you’ve still got it wrong about the statistics re drivers. In a race-blind system, you’d expect the percentage of stopped drivers from any race to be the same. The percentage of people in a given race who actually drive is irrelevant. You said:
This is true for actual numbers, but not for percentages. Do you have the raw numbers?
Since the population of black drivers doesn’t vary here, it is impossible that something should affect the raw numbers but not the percentages.