Is it not enough, however, that Playboy…I mean, PLAYBOY, fercrissake!…had the decency to pull the piece just hours after Cimbaliclogic posted it? Why are we beating a dead horse made deader by the dead-horse-fuckers on the right wing?

“Classical Values”?

Oh, and Peggy Noonan, from like the Victorian Era. Maybe.

Hey, “Leave It To Beaver” *is* classic.

Yeah, well, I still think it’s important to point out that when mockery morphs into rape fantasy, it ceases to be useful mockery or even particularly funny, actor.

I can’t say I can see ‘hate fucking’ as rape: it basically describes what Ann Coulter does in, well, look at the title and decide for yourself.

OK, fair enough, DA.

National Review is responding with a piece entitled “Ten Liberal Women I’d Like to Shoot Outside of Church”

Alec makes an interesting point: there’s a difference between angry sex and a rape fantasy. I can’t say for sure which side Cimbalos falls on, but I tend to think that if Playboy had a problem with it, it was probably a rape fantasy.

Nothing wrong with those, either, so long as they remain a fantasy and the “rape” in question is consensual.

Rusty FTW!

Sure, but publishing said rape fantasy towards women who didn’t consent in any way to participating in it rhetorically or otherwise, on a prominent website, is pretty offensive.

Agreed, DA.

The key thing is that rape fantasies at best involve fucking someone until they like it, and are hateful because, not in spite of, their tendency to distill out the hatred and violence motivating the typical capital-r Rape. Hate-fucking (at least as I’ve always seen it used) involves fucking someone hard because you loathe them, and is usually both reciprocated and consensual. It’s fucked-up, but it’s not rape and not really worth moral censure. The equivalent would be some kind of surreal fantasy in which you fucked Coulter hard enough that she became Keith Olbermann. Which we’ve all had, sure, but it’s not worth talking about.

Mind you, I will defend I Fucked Ann Coulter In The Ass, Hard as both short fiction and a sexual fantasy, but hate-fucking is a crass, sordid thing and someone writing that has to know it.

Also, it’s worth remembering that fantasies tend to involve consent being much easier than it is in the real world, but that’s what they’re for. Acting out any sexual fantasy you’ve had about a celebrity would almost certainly be rape (I say ‘almost certainly’ because I’ve heard some people have had sexual thoughts about Andy Dick, and, well.) – but there’s nothing particularly evil about imagining consensual sex between yourself and someone who probably wouldn’t actually want anything to do with you.

Although the article couldn’t be called respectful by any reasonable metric, “euphemistically rape” is probably a tad bombastic in this case.

Sure, but publishing said rape fantasy towards women who didn’t consent in any way to participating in it rhetorically or otherwise, on a prominent website, is pretty offensive.

I think even if the article had been written in the context of IFACITAH it wouldn’t be appropriate, because discussing violent sex with people who don’t have any reason to like you is pretty rude and unless your mission statement involves being an asshole you shouldn’t be doing it. I agree that publishing it was a pretty idiotic move on the website’s part, but I think calling it a rape fantasy kind of undermines what rape fantasies tend to be about and what makes them wrong.

Hash comes in cans now? Why wasn’t I told?!

I really have to wonder why Playboy published that list in the first place; is this some sort of gambit to seem liberal again, after being associated with general regressiveness for so long? If so, then it fails, badly.

Then again, who’s in charge there these days? It can’t be Hugh; he is at that stage in a man’s life where he wears pajamas 24/7 for reasons completely unrelated to some antiquated hipster/swinger image. Have some of the Playmates just sort of taken over? I’d like to think that Miss February 1984, Justine Greiner, might have some say over things; she was always my favorite. Don’t publish anything by Guy Cimbalo any more, Justine! You’re too classy for that. I could always tell, you had that certain look in your eyes, wistful and all too knowing.

‘I Fucked Ann Coulter In The Ass, Hard’ is more defendable than the Playboy piece and is actually pretty good humor, in my opinion. It’s a one-off on an anonymous, purpose-built blog, which makes it a kind of cathartic release of a wrong but titillating idea held by many who’ve felt their blood boil over Coulter’s books and TV appearances. For two, the author shows full awareness of the borderline nature of the piece in the finale:

I considered how it felt to be a disposable instrument in someone’s personal debasement fantasy.

All in all, it didn’t feel too bad.

Batman,

I publish a blog regularly at a couple of sites. The owner usually takes a pass at reviewing what I post ahead of time. That’s probably what happened here.

Now, if he gets away with it again, then Playboy is probably aware of this.

Acting out any sexual fantasy you’ve had about a celebrity would almost certainly be rape

Speak for yourselves, boys. In my fantasy world it’s just me and George Clooney and no rape or hate sex is allowed.

Batman,

I publish a blog regularly at a couple of sites. The owner usually takes a pass at reviewing what I post ahead of time. That’s probably what happened here.

Now, if he gets away with it again, then Playboy is probably aware of this.

I don’t know much about blogging on a big scale, but I have to imagine that if that’s the case it’s a sort of failure on Playboy’s part: the assumption on print media’s behalf seems to be that blogging represents some kind of fad, something that happens on its own, and will either go away or can be used to draw in customers without much effort. I imagine a good editor would have fixed this issue before it happened.

If you’ve got some kind of corporate image to maintain, you definitely want to take blogging seriously and look into hiring staff to maintain efficiency, security, style, content, etc without the expectation that they generate content.

And then there’s the other thing: everyone has lapses in judgement and taste, and a lot of people write drunk or high. Guy Cimbalo’s wasn’t that severe, but its appearance in a major periodical’s online presence means someone has to dive on their sword, and the lack of a professional editor managing content posted means that it has to be him. It’s as unfair as the accepted procedure for fact-checking being to respond only in cases of exceptional error and in that case sack the writer responsible.

Speak for yourselves, boys. In my fantasy world it’s just me and George Clooney and no rape or hate sex is allowed.

I meant that in the sense of George Clooney probably wouldn’t consent to have sex with you, not in the sense that you’re fantasizing about pinning him down in a prison cafeteria as he begs for mercy and is inexplicably dressed as a British schoolboy.

The point was mainly that hate-fucking fantasies involve an element of consent even though actual consent would be improbable even by the standards of sexual fantasy, and that puts them on the other side of the fence from rape fantasies, which revolve around consent being meaningless because your dick is magnificent.

I agree with DA here. Stuff like the Playboy piece is both wrong and gives the mouthbreathers an easy way to deflect the real issues by saying The Left(tm) is full of hate.

That’s why when I wrote a piece about Ann Coulter pegging Sean Hannity, I made it clear it was consensual.

Hate fuck as rape? Not in my disgusting fantasy world, which if you entered say as Jennifer Lopez did in The Cell, you’d notice it to be oddly less gay looking which surprises even me.

Anyway, the sex with my republican adversary is scorching hot, incredibly wrong and always mutually agreed upon. We both feel dirty, but no crime is involved.

Take for instance the Prince Harry-looking douchebag in the Con rap video. We’d meet in a Dartmouth library, the sexual intensity would be too great for him to resist, and skipping over the specifics, it ends with him trying to wash off the sin he enjoyed so much. In a hot shower. With an SOS pad.

Not that I think he’s really hot, but he needn’t be for a dumb fantasy.

Leaving aside the rape discussion, and admitting guiltily to a few guffaws at the article*, it is deeply misogynistic calling the various women “shrew” and “harpie” and so forth.

* – mostly I laughed at the career synopses of these people, which were largely spot on in terms how they are actually awful people

DA, good job coming out against this though. It is over the line.

George Clooney probably wouldn’t consent to have sex with you

alec: EXCUSE ME? George Clooney LIVES to have sex with me. Now get off my sex-fantasy island.

By the way, I don’t have a dick, magnificent or otherwise. Perhaps that’s why you don’t seem to understand MY point.

Is this the same as a “grudge-fuck”?

Using my Conservo-Speak translator:

“What’s the fuss all about? Hey, if Gitmo is a country club for dark people, then what’s wrong with a little sexual role-playing? Plus, isn’t this a violation of his First Amendment rights?”

He’s George Clooney, ma’am, and even if he weren’t being a celebrity kind of involves living in a world where Scarlett Johansson is a fatty and Kate Moss is old. Whether you’re beautiful or ugly by normal-people standards is pretty irrelevant. Like everyone in Hollywood, he would think of the average fantasy sex island the way we might think of rural Oklahoma.

By the way, I don’t have a dick, magnificent or otherwise.

That would disqualify you from doing the raping in most rape fantasies, but that’s not the point: hate-fucking isn’t normal as a sexual fantasy (I think it would pretty much ruin anything for me) but it’s not beyond the pale. We have to deal with these things in recognition of the influence of personal taste but conscious of the fact that there’s an objective metric by which judgement is appropriate.

Is it wrong to fantasize about consensually fucking the stupid out of Marie Jon’?

I think George Clooney would totally consent to whatever it is MzNicky asked of him. She’s fabulous.

I think George Clooney would totally consent to whatever it is MzNicky asked of him. She’s fabulous.

The most fabulous woman on Earth could get turned down by Steve Buscemi without a film credit. It’s kind of how America works. The key thing is that she, like everyone else who has healthy sexual fantasies, would know to ask.

I’m a little skeptical about how well the converse works, but it’s at least worth considering that cultivating a sexual gaze in which your partner’s consent is meaningless is going to encourage you to do fucked-up things.

seabiscuit is the number one dead horse i’d like to hate-fuck.

is that so wrong?

The most fabulous woman on Earth could get turned down

Are you arguing that certain sex fantasies are unrealistic?

Now there’s an interesting question– where does what I’ve heard one forum called “revenge porn” fall in this spectrum? It *can* involve unpleasant sexual acts, but it’s not really the *sex* that interests the fantasizer.

(Transmetropolitan has a good example of the kind of stuff I mean: “You ought to be peeled, salted, driven through the streets by mental patients with spiked planks, and then used as a toilet and jizz-catcher by baboons in heat. At best.”)

Thank you Doctor Missus Marita!

And why doesn’t alec understand why George Clooney is my fantasy sex object rather than Steve Buscemi?

Are you arguing that certain sex fantasies are unrealistic?

Well sure. Take for instance me and my gf’s common fantasy of getting tattooed by Kat Von D, and then things get a little hot and it all ends up into an awesome threesome with my gf fucking Kat Von D with her strap-on while she sucks on my dick.

Totally unrealistic. We don’t live in L.A.

I would totally do MzNicky but I gotta say the fact that she has owned up to finding Tucker Carlson hot almost ruins it for me. Almost.

seabiscuit is the number one dead horse i’d like to hate-fuck.

Equus-ite!

It’s OK, George, you know that I bat for the other team, anyway.

Tucker Carlson’s bow tie is the No. 1 neckwear accessory I’d like to hate fuck.

Oh George. We’ve discussed this before. The question was to name a wingnut that might be considered attractive. For example, the het guys were all “I’d do the Malkin thing” and “Laura Ingraham? I’d hit it” and other such abomination. Tucker reminds me a little of an English prof I used to know, so there it was. I was drunk, I was young, I didn’t know what I was doing, okay? Now get back over here.

Also, Peggy Noonan?

Some things in life need to be mysterious.

Is it wrong to fantasize about consensually fucking the stupid out of Marie Jon’?

Not wrong. Just impossible.

Tucker reminds me a little of an English prof I used to know, so there it was.

Jesus Christ, woman, at least sleep ABOVE yourself!

Is this going to be a Wing Nuts I’d Like To Fuck thread? Because I’ve got this one I’ve been saving up about Megan McArdle and an allusion to Galt’s Gulch….

It’s not the crime of the century, but yeah, it’s pretty stupid and sexist. Now if only the conservatives can take this newfound awareness of the existence of sexism and apply it to situation where any woman is the victim, instead of just those women that are on their side.

Not exactly holding my breath for that one, though.

The problem with adding wingnuts to a Hate Fuck fantasy is that they focus on the hate and the hate alone. Pretty soon, what’s consensual becomes criminal and you have to shake off that fantasy and bury it somewhere deep inside your mind. I suggest laying it to rest where you’ve buried the images of Ken Lowery’s Palin boner.

Maybe that’s why my love life resembles a fan convention for “Misfits Of Science” – that is, sparsely attended and more than a little pathetic. I’m trying to have sex with people who I actually like. Silly Matt.

I’m trying to have sex with people who I actually like.

If I did that, I wouldn’t have to leave my apartm–

Um, nevermind…

seabiscuit is the number one dead horse i’d like to hate-fuck.
Flogging them is evidently too vanilla.

the ongoing buffoonery of wingnut punditrix
If this is not amended shortly, I will have to change costumes and assume my secret identity as Pluralisation Pedant.

punditrices?

punditrices?

You give them too much credit: pundit-tykes.

I just hope Marie ‘Jon was not on that list.

Is it wrong to fantasize about consensually fucking the stupid out of Marie Jon’?

with k-lo watchin & masturbating

Out, demons of stupidity! Out, I say!

No. Actually no. I do not have respect for them as whatever. I think they are disgusting people who help to create a climate in which being a doctor can get you killed. They don’t have any “dignity” as humans or anything else.

This type of softcentred mincery is why you have a centre-right pollie posing as a liberal handing all your money to the banks and no chance whatsoever of a health system that benefits the people.

Have some of the Playmates just sort of taken over? I’d like to think that Miss February 1984, Justine Greiner, might have some say over things; she was always my favorite.

Add in Miss November 1975, Janet Lupo, and I’d say you’ve got the right idea.

Srsly, WTF is the attraction of this “hate-fucking” thing? There does not exist a penis so perfect that I would EVER want it anywhere near me if it came attached to a conservatard. I don’t even care if he goes up on the backstroke or whatever that move is that’s supposed to make a ‘tard irresistible to the laydeez. No dick is worth that much degradation.

Come to think of it, I also don’t get the “need” to feel dirty before you can enjoy it. Just as I don’t get the whole jumping-around-in-cheerleader-costumes or skanky-black-leather-mini things that the Asian White Supremacist and the Coultergeist, respectively, have going. But wait, they don’t do that for SEX, nooooo…they do that to get a male audience to take them seriously.

Sex + Conservatism = Epic, Icky Fail.

“Hate-fuck” sounds like “War For Peace” or “Compassionate Conservative” to me … semiotically I “get it” but fail to see the point as it relates to my version of reality. Why would I want to make someone I loathe get their rocks off – or make myself feel like shit afterwards by intentionally preventing same? Sounds like a lose-lose to me.

Plus it just doesn’t pin my yikes-o-meter, y’know? Hate-fucking sounds evil enough, yet it doesn’t have nearly the same frisson as the internment-camps & firing-squads wingnuts like to toss around like brownshirt-bunting.

Is it wrong to fantasize about consensually fucking the stupid out of Marie Jon’?

You’re gonna need a really humongous, er, consent-form. I’d stock up on food too – but I fear that’d just be a two-week vacation wasted.

Alec:

Elizabeth Hurley
Hugh Grant and Divine Brown

Just sayin’.

HFYWP.

I used to call what me and one woman from my past did as “hate-fucking”…we couldn’t stand each other personally, but somehow what always started as slinging insults and even short bursts of me deflecting direct physical assaults from her always ended in really crazy, sweaty room-destroying escapades that still leave me questioning my sanity (and the structural integrity of my lower back) all these years later…As for Cimbalo’s article…I can’t imagine any of the wingnut shrews in the same capacity…Malkin’s repugnant views outweigh any outward cuteness she may possess and i can’t imagining her channeling that nasty seething psychosis of hers in any kind of productively sexual way and the same is true of the rest of Cimbalo’s picks…and Pam Atlas? Man, not even with Doughbob Loadpants’ probably-inverted genitals…besides, isn’t taking advantage of the mentally ill in that capacity a crime in most states?

as for calling them shrews…well, i won’t apologize…these folks live in a world where they can celebrate the murder of a doctor and try and pawn off any responsibility for where their words and actions may have contributed to it, but the second you infringe on their notion of personal dignity, you are the epitome of evil and barbarism…fuck ’em

Playboy took it down and the mirror is 404ing for me so I can’t see for myself but, was there anything in the article that made clear that hatefuck = rape, or is this another case of wingnuts calmly and rationally looking at something from every angle and then deciding it means the worst thing possible? The same way they decided having empathy meant punishing white people.

The first thing I thought hatefuck meant was just angry sex. Angry sex is consensual sex, just angry.

It can be pretty great btw.

Clearly, if the all-knowing men in the room think there’s nothing wrong with the piece or with a concept as creepy and violent as “hate fucking”, who are we foolish women to judge? Come on, ladies, you know no one will love you if you keep using the R word.

I thought “hate-fucking” was more like the explanation for James Carville and Mary Matalin’s marriage.

Jesus, chocolatepie, not all the women here think hatefucking is synonymous with rape. Writing an article fantasizing about it is creepy as hell and brain-achingly stupid, and I frankly don’t get the allure, but folks who hate each other sometimes have sex willingly for whatever reason.

this is ridiculous. that list was hilarious, which is really the only way to measure the effectiveness of offensive humor.

that some namby-pampy liberals want it gone as much as those it offended scares me a little bit. they kill people they disagree with and we can’t make fun of having sex with people you’re attracted to but think are the antichrist??? did I just walk into an episode of “Leave it to Beaver” or something?

there was such a focus on the humiliation/domination of the women that it is very hard for me not to interpret it as a rape list.