Okay, if this story gets legs, I might actually get excited.

I mean, *you* know that the WH sees the Christian Right as a puddle of n00bs, and *I* know it, but they are, en masse, too stupid to realize it without someone near the administration saying something overt about it.

Here’s hoping they aren’t too stupid to realize that’s exactly what this is.

Here’s hoping they aren’t too stupid to realize that’s exactly what this is.

I think that when you’ve been used for so long, you pscyhologically block out reality if it’s too painful. People like Marie and Pastor Swank are too far gone to bring back.

I mean, have you ever had a friend who was in a relationship with somebody abusive? Y’know how it’s like completely impossible for you to tell them the truth because they only resent you for it? That’s what this is like.

Haha! I bolded the same parts in the post I did about it before I emailed you.

My guess: They’ll come to grips with Scanlon and Abramoff being a scumbag, but nobody else. I KNOW president bush loves womb babies as much as I do! evidence otherwise is evidence planted by satan! etc.

I mean, have you ever had a friend who was in a relationship with somebody abusive? Y’know how it’s like completely impossible for you to tell them the truth because they only resent you for it? That’s what this is like.

I used to be a crisis intervention counselor on a domestic violence hotline, so I know exactly what you mean. I’d still be doing it, if full time job and full time school didn’t completely own my ass.

We get taught in training for the hotline that the average number of times a woman leaves her abuser before she stays gone is seven. Whether or not she makes it, then, becomes a matter of if she’s ever able to work up the courage to leave the first time, and if she lives through attempts two through six to leave his sorry ass.

You’re right; the religious fruit loops have only tried to leave old man GOP once now. Never mind.

Anybody want to have a drink with me? Too fucking depressing otherwise.

I feel sorry for domestic abuse victims that this happens to, but I don’t feel sorry for douches who are trying to control my life.

(Let’s not talk right now about whether or not they’ll grasp what’s going on.)

(Let’s not talk right now about whether or not they’ll grasp what’s going on.)

I honestly, honestly would feel good about myself if I could shake one or two of them into reality. I almost do feel sorry for the poor buggers.

Sure, it would be nice, but how often do true wingnuts realize and/or admit to being wrong?

Sure, it would be nice, but how often do true wingnuts realize and/or admit to being wrong?

Well, if my current reading is anything to go by, the answer to that question is that they take their shoddy justifications to the gallows with them.

Jillian, that book looks interesting. Are you enjoying it? (That’s probably not the correct verb choice for the subject matter, but you know what I mean.)

Watch for Chazmo and the 101st to scrutinize the memos for evidence that they are Rathergate-style forgeries. Watch for MJ’ and the Thong Patrol to claim that Scanlon was a Democratic mole. Watch for the neo-Nazis to harp on how Abramoff, a Jew, was manipulating the Christian Right, and this just confirms everything their tiny little brains believe.

Dan- I still can’t get over the fact that Evangelicals are only pro-Israel because they think it’ll help Jesus come back. I mean, that has to be the most fucked-up thing EVER.

It’s not just because it will help Jesus come back. It’s also because when that happens, all the Jews will either convert or be cast into the fiery fires of Hell, where they will all catch fire and burn in fire for eternity*. Evangelicals are the pyromaniacs of Christianity.

*In fire.

Note for any psychiatrists who might be reading: The reference in my previous post to “pyromaniac” was intended in the colloquial sense of “someone who likes seeing things* on fire.” I am not attempting to diagnose anyone as a pyromaniac in the DSM/clinical meaning of the word.

*For example, Jews who fail to convert at the Second Coming.

Jullian, as a member of the Christian right, I am offended by your characterization of all of us as “stupid.” I suppose that’s the label you assign to anyone who disagrees with you. Wouldn’t you call that arrogance? Another name we on the right are consistently called is “intolerant.” Well, is assigning a disparaging label to a whole group of people with varying levels of intelligence, your idea of tolerance?

In little deference to the good Dr. of tasty sandwiches, intolerant is the word. There is no other word that accurately describes the Christian right’s views on a number of issues, and this bog, on a daily basis points out this intolerance, usually paired with a side of hypocrisy. And yes, stupid may be pushing the envelope. I consider them quite dim.

So, as a right wing Christian you don’t have any problem with the Republican tools referring to you as a “whacko”? Excuse me if I’m wrong, but that’s a bit intolerant. Maybe it’s time for you to see the light, Doc. Aren’t you tired of being used?

I don’t have any problem saying it. Most modern day, north-american christians ARE stupid. At least that’s been my experience. Sure there are exceptions, but most are just simple minded people looking for a religion and worldview that doesen’t challenge them to think. Ever. Just say the words and your soul is redeemed. I’m sorry but that strikes me as monumentally stupid and lazy.

mmm lemonhead, it’s unfortunate that you seem to have relied exclusively on this blog site to formulate your views on the Christian right. Most of these articles you are presented with here are written by those among the Christian right who are at the most outer fringe of the right wing. Moreover, in case you hadn’t noticed, most of the information you are exposed to on this site is accompanied by a particular left-wing bias. Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with that, but, personally, I prefer to expose myself to points of view on all sides before forming opinions.

celticgirl: I’m not aware of any Republican “tools” who have called me “whacko,” so if you know something I don’t please fill me in. It wouldn’t surprise me, since I’m sure there are Republicans out there who think I’m too liberal. Nevertheless, if they do think I’m “whacko,” I would like to find out their rationale for assigning such a label to someone like myself.

Timmah, I wonder if you might entertain the hypothesis that perhaps you may have underestimated or prematurely judged at least some of the Christians you’ve met. I appreciate the honest feedback from all of you, however.

Dr. BLT, either you’re being disingenuous, you haven’t read the post, or you think you simply can’t be one of the people mentioned in the memo.

In fact I have underestimated some. There was a very nice native fellow I used to go to school with who basically had christianity shoved down his throat on the reservation. The sort of bloke who never really thought about what he believed. We actually had long talks about science and belief, it’s funny actually, I knew more about traditional native american beliefs than he did. Eventually we both came to the the conclusion that modern day christianity was harming, not only his small reservation, but indeed, the world. And we both (after some research) came to thoughouly respect some of the ancient native core beliefs, which are very good lessons on the whole, respect nature, plan for the future ect. If you want to know why we thought christianity was so bad for them, one needs to only look at the history of our dealings with Native situation in Canada, which is, of course compared to the US’s history of genocide there, a friendly tap on the shoulder, but according to me is still one of our darkest periods. There was rampant sexual abuse and other forms of horror inflicted on the natives in the special residential schools we had, and they were denied the right to learn about their own culture, as we substituted a bastardized version of ours.

Jullian, as a member of the Christian right, I am offended by your characterization of all of us as “stupid.”

Well, if you’d stop dazzling us with your remarkable grasp of genetics, I’d probably have less reason to characterize you as stupid. As far as the rest of your ilk goes, I’m not even the first to make the observation. In the words of John Stuart Mill – “While it is not true that most stupid people are conservative, it is true that most conservative people are stupid.” The founding fathers were wrong about a lot of things, but they sure knew whom to turn to for good source material.

I suppose that’s the label you assign to anyone who disagrees with you. Wouldn’t you call that arrogance?

Plenty of people who disagree with me about a great many things are quite brilliant. In fact, considering the caliber of the university I attend, I consider it a great honor to have had strident disagreements with some of the best minds in the whole damn country.

And then there’s you.

Believing myself to be more intellectually gifted than you isn’t arrogance. Believing myself to be more intellectually gifted than the guy who wrote the textbook for my WWII class (who also lectures at my university) would be arrogant. In your case, it’s more – a reflection of basic cognitive skills.

Jillian, that book looks interesting. Are you enjoying it? (That’s probably not the correct verb choice for the subject matter, but you know what I mean.)

It’s pretty fascinating, flea. Eichmann was just a regular dude – loved his wife, failed in business a lot, wanted to do right by his family – and killed millions of people in the process.

The creepy thing is how he is NOT a “monster”. He’s just a guy. And if a guy like him could do the things he did, then there’s no telling who else could do it, or where it could happen again. Unless we stay on guard against the traits that brought Eichmann to power in the first place, in fact, it’s pretty much a surety that it will happen again.

It’s amazing how much more important stupid things like voting seem once you realize that.

It’s not just because it will help Jesus come back. It’s also because when that happens, all the Jews will either convert or be cast into the fiery fires of Hell, where they will all catch fire and burn in fire for eternity*. Evangelicals are the pyromaniacs of Christianity.

Actually, if you ever want to turn an evangelican conference into a brawl, bring this up.

Don’t listen as the resulting “debate” over dispensations, the mechanism of salvation, covenants, pre-Christ saints, etc.. is so jaw-droppingly dumb and illogical it will blow your mind.

Don’t listen as the resulting “debate” over dispensations, the mechanism of salvation, covenants, pre-Christ saints, etc.. is so jaw-droppingly dumb and illogical it will blow your mind.

But it will soon feature in a direct-to-DVD thriller starring teen heartthrob Kirk Cameron! He’s so dreamy!!

“…considering the caliber of the university I attend…”

Jillian, you just thought you’d slip that line in there did you, thereby single-handedly debunking your assertion that you’re not arrogant, just smarter than me!? Humility is the beginning of wisdom. You haven’t begun to begin.

Jillian, you don’t know my level of cognitive skills. I happen to have the credentials to test yours, but I don’t believe you have the same credentials to test mine. But wait, here I am allowing myself to bite at your attempt to get me involved in some type of adolescent academic peeing contest. I’m just not going to go there, Jillian.

Oh, you’ve already demonstrated your profound mental ability to the great amusement of everyone here. Any more such performances from you are gravy, really. Ever plan on addressing your adorable claim that there’s no scientific evidence to back up the claim that sexual orientation is genetically shaped? Because that was the best one so far, I have to tell you.

And believe me, the school I go to is nothing to brag about, namewise. It’s a very old state university that happens to have a very good reputation in my particular field. I am lucky enough to be being taught by some of the best minds in my discipline, and I appreciate every minute of it.

On the downside, it probably lessens my patience for dealing with pseudointellectual blowhards. Looks like you’re getting the brunt of it lately. Too bad. Perhaps if you’d stop spouting off about things you sorely lack the requisite educational background to justify holding positions on (like the genetic basis for sexual orientation), we might even get along with each other.

It’s just that the only thing I dislike more than bigots who hate you to your face are bigots who hate you behind your back and couch it in pretty language to disguise the fact.

Jillian, speaking on behalf of the masses again, in an effort to try to discredit me, are we? It’s an old trick and I can’t blame you for trying to resurrect it, Jillian. Why don’t you dig up some of those studies you’ve assumed I’m too stupid to grasp that supposedly definitively prove your hypothesis once and for all. If you’re so smart, then you should be able to translate information you regard as over my head. If you’re as smart as you claim to be, then you should be able to break it down and explain it in terms even a supposed idiot like myself could understand.

PS: Thanks for the compliment on the “pretty language.”

Eichmann was just a regular dude – loved his wife, failed in business a lot, wanted to do right by his family – and killed millions of people in the process.

Why golly gee, that almost sounds like a certain president who shall remain nameless.

Thanks, Jillian – I’ll add that title to my endless “Books to Get” list. Someday they’ll find me buried under a collapsed stack of unread books, and serves me right.

So Evangelicals are stupid if they believe what they’re told, and stupid squared if they believe that the high proportion of Jews doing the telling (many supposedly converts to xianity of some strange sort) is anything other than coincidental. In order NOT to be stupid, they have to believe that all these jewish, christian, muslim, etc., overtones are meaningless and that the real explanation is to do with the greed of corporations – but preferably they should not become marxists at this point. Correct so far?

Since the subject of what I suppose I can start calling “antisemite-baiting” has come up, I shall again pluf this excellent column by Justin Raimondo, who is presumably (at least by Dan’s logic) a gay libertarian crypto-nazi:
AntiWar

I prefer to expose myself to points of view on all sides before forming opinions.

[Sorry to jump on this so late!] Actually, doc, that’s something I can more-or-less agree with. But…
If I may play devil’s advocate for a moment, and throw in some pop-culture references to render the entire thing as shallow as possible… wasn’t that exactly the argument that Emperor Palpatine made to Anakin Skywalker while he was seducing him over to the Dark side of the Force in “Revenge of the Sith”? Not the role model I think we should actively emulate, somehow. Though, if I could cast purple lightning from my fingertips, well, that could be fun….

Rowan, I have no idea who Justin Raimondo is. He may be gay, he may be a libertarian, he may even be a crypto-Nazi, but I’ve never heard of him before, so I can’t tell. But I’m trying to figure out your purpose in giving us the link. What’s your point? That it’s not antisemitic to claim that the war in Iraq was engineered by The Jews for the benefit of The Jews? I beg to differ. Your judeophobia is showing. (Doc BLT, I may in fact be making a diagnosis here. Feel free to chime in.)

Seriously, dude, Jews make up less than 2% of the population of the U.S. Less than a quarter percent of the population of the world. There is no worldwide — or even nationwide — Jewish conspiracy to control your thoughts and actions. Your time would be better spent worrying about real things. Like the space aliens hiding under your bed.

read the article, dood

I read the article, “dood.”

Here’s the thing, Rowan. Indicting Libby is not antisemitic. Claiming that the actions that took us to war in Iraq are the result of a shadowy global Jewish conspiracy — that’s antisemitic. Not to mention paranoid.

Dan, I have to give you credit, “judeophobia” is more creative than my informal “diagnostic” label of “homophobia phobia” (pertaining to those who try way to hard to be politically correct as it pertains to their views on homosexuality for fear of being called “homophobic.” I’m not sure I want to join you in putting that label on Rowan however, and further alienate Rowan from myself. Despite the apparent fact that Rowan and I seem to have disparate world views, Rowan appears to be the closest thing to a “troll mate” that I have come across of late. Most trolls have been scared off by the Amishesque shunning that goes on at this site. Very few of us are able to weather the storm.

“Most trolls have been scared off by the Amishesque shunning that goes on at this site. Very few of us are able to weather the storm.”…

There you go again, BLT, with the shunning remarks. I’m tired of dressing my point up, so I’ll just spell it out.

Welcome to the internet. It’s a nasty place sometimes. I’m surprised you haven’t gotten used to it by now, but give it time, and you’ll come to realise that debate on an unmoderated forum doesn’t always reach the pinnacle of civility you seem to be striving for.

In fact, this site is far more civilized than most corners of the internet, and if you can’t get used to it, perhaps you can move on to another forum, perhaps on a sesame street fansite. You’d be hard-pressed to find stuff to be offended about there.

Also, Doc BLT, as I understand it, shunning involves not having anything to do with the shunned person — not speaking or having any interaction (or even contact) with him/her. Given that people here respond to your posts with some regularity, I’d hardly say that shunning happens here. Dogpiling, maybe, but not shunning.

Dan, I was waiting to find out when “someone” would do their homework on the Amish culture. You are absolutely correct, shunning is a far more passive activity than the virulent, aggressive “Dogpiling” that goes on at this site. Heretofore I was allowed to get by with that less-than-adequate term, but it looks like you’ve now forced me to give it up.

Random Guy, you’ve given me a bitter pill to swallow, but it appears to be reality-based, so I’m afraid I’m going to have to swallow it. Sesame Street, here I come! Oh no, I forgot about the cookie monster!!!

Doc, if you want to see “virulent,” go visit Little Green Footfetishes and read their comments section. Of course, Chazmo requires registration before posting, so the self-selected wingnuts over there don’t usually have many opposing viewpoints to jump on… but they are virulent nonetheless. Vitriolic, vituperative, vindictive… all those great “V” words.

This place is a Sesame Street forum by comparison.

OK, Dan, that may be the case, but if you ask me there is still far too much road rage on this “Sesame Street.”

“Today’s Sesame Street is brought to you by the letter ‘W.’ ‘W.’ “Wrong.’ ‘‘Wrrrooonnnngg!’ ‘W!'”

Suckers

Sadly, No links to an article about some emails fromer DeLay aide Michael Sanlon that lays out the Rove/Nixon/Atwater Southern Strategy in a way that would get a liberal yelled at on “Meet the Press.” For background, Scanlon’s goal is…

OK, Marq, so I guess that makes you the sponsor.

There’s no Dubya in “Marq,” Doc, so Wrong again!

There is if you turn it upside down!

Are you implying that I’m a bottom, Doc? Google it, if it’s an unfamiliar term. Tsk, tsk, talkin’ dirty. Unless you were implying that I’d… um, Dubya’d… um…
[hkkktphth]
………………………’scuse me a minute–gotta puke!

Welcome back, Marq. After chiming it at number 70 at the other thread, and destroying a perfectly good number, I had a feeling you’d show up here next to plant your seeds of iniquity.