Now there’s someone who needs a lightsaber up his lily-whites.

It looks very much as if the president is oblivious to everything we’ve learned about social programs and educational reforms in the last 40 years—and by “we” I include policy analysts on the left as well as right.

So I have written and thus is gospels.
-Amen

Alternate “Shorter”:

“That scary negro lacked specificity! His specific plans have been tried and won’t work, I tells ya. You’ll just have to take my word on that!”

read my lips

Hard to do when he’s got them wrapped around Rush’s maypole, dont’cha think?

Dude looks like an undertaker.

And while I know and respect many in that business, this Murray dude looks like the skeevy sort who gives the rest a bad name.

Dude looks like an undertaker.

He does sort of look like the dad from “Six Feet Under.”

There is a simple explanation for this kooks’ take on the speech: He was watching an old recording of an El Chimpo SOTU speech.

Metaphorically – fixed.

Heh.

Mr. Murray, what manner of man are you that can summon up racist arguments without facts or evidence?

Dude looks like an undertaker.

Looksist vocationsists.Hmph.

everything we’ve learned about social programs and educational reforms in the last 40 years

All of which has been employed right up to the end of the presidency of George W. Bush.

Look at the bones!!

Rhetoric and impaled bankers: a revolutionary new trolley-car paradigm, together with an introduction to problematology. 600 words.

Hey, if there’s anyone who’s a reliable guide to the sum total of the best social science we have, it’s clearly Charles Murray.

I’m surprised that his wife still finds it noteworthy when he mutters darkly at the TV. He seems like the type who does that 10-12 hours every day.

I believe this is the undertaker to whom y’all are referring.

The clearer their irrelevance becomes, the louder their tantrums get.

Like anyone is going to give two shits about Mr. Bell Curve’s opinion about our highly popular first black president.

Rusty Shackleford: I knew that’s who it would be.

Mr. Murray, what manner of man are you that can summon up racist arguments without facts or evidence?

This is a question that The Mismeasure of Man posed and tackled with breathtaking clarity.

Murray is one of the principals responsible for the gateway eugenics tract The Bell Curve, a rambling, incoherent, and dogmatic effort to assert the primacy of genetics in intelligence and to provide the color of science to the conventional notions of race held by upper-class whites of his generation generally and reactionary Jews specifically. (I would say ‘Ironically, the book played a major role in re-mainstreaming the idea of Jews as sinister, alien supermen’, but that isn’t a bug but a feature.)

Unfortunately for it, (a) it caught the attention of Gould, one of the better science writers of our time – with the result being a classic and authoritative work on monkeys, backs, and ‘education’; and (b) its authors, being the aforementioned kind of well-off reactionary Jews, have a great utility as dancing monkeys for the hard right. As such, the bad faith of Murray and Hernstein’s malignant effusion is obvious to anyone caring to observe it, and they’ve spent the brief time ever since hammering it home in a public forum.

(By contrast, Freakonomics, which seeks to mainstream fairly doctrinaire and radical neoliberal concepts while posing as rebellious and politically incorrect, lacks a basement-dwelling Kahanist working as a wingnut stringer and has done very well and remained fully respectable.)

When you see his name, mentally substitute Pipes or Podhoretz and you get a sense of how rigorous anything he does is and what his beliefs and goals are. He’s one of hundreds of those awful, interchangeable old motherfuckers who still like to imagine the USSR is persecuting them with black politicians, and no matter how obviously farcical and affected that gets they still keep at it for any audience.

So, Chuck, where does “no child left behind” fit into all this?

If only a smart white guy like Joe the Plumber was in the White House.

ROFLMAO!

This is the funniest shorter ever, but then you had material to work with that is beyond supreme!

So lemme get this straight, this “negro” beat the best of the best of both parties, and yet is somehow less qualified to be president than the guy the Republicans nearly bankrupted themselves getting installed?

Ohmy!

Looksist vocationsists.Hmph.

Damn! I knew I shoulda been more explicit in acknowledging our own happy embalmer.

You, my good man (if, indeed, that is your gender), are the sort what gives the profession its polish, and earns it the highest of regard.

My deepest apologies. No offense intended.

Am I the only one who hates the, “my wife said the cutest thing” meme that always seems to pop up among these commentators? It always has this “out of the mouths of babes” air of wonder about it. See, even the little lady gets it! Also, totally not gay.

The guy never indicates that he is aware that we’ve tried a whole bunch of the same stuff he wants to try and evaluated it repeatedly and—read my lips—it doesn’t work.

Doesn’t Murray know that, thanks to Poppy Bush, read my lips is an ironic negator?

Snarkle,

Never make fun of the undertaker, because he can leave a lasting impression.

OT: in furtherance of Michael Steele’s vision the RNC has put together a sub-committee.

You guys don’t understand, Black people aren’t as smart as white men, women aren’t as smart as white men, white gays aren’t as white as other white men. It’s that simple, and the x-y axis I drew on the tablecloth proves I’m right.

I’m glad to see Murray is publishing on The Corner, exactly the place his worthless opinions belong.

Andrew Sullivan will never be able to apologize enough for giving this fraud a forum.

Hee-ho!

Did you know the business cycle we’re currently going through goes all the way back to Biblical times? Why, the investment guiy said it on Glenn Blecch a few minutes ago , so it MUST be true!

Sure, I’ll take economic advice from someone who can’t realize there’s a slight bit of difference between the economies of 21st Century America and Palestine 1000 BC. Yup.

Andrew Sullivan will never be able to apologize enough for giving this fraud a forum.

Does he apologize at all? I was under the impression that he still thought it was a feather in his cap.

It’s like they died and woke up in Reverse America!

the investment guiy said it on Glenn Blecch…

That’s Crazy Glenn Beck to you.

But then shortly afterwards came the horrible plane crash in Buffalo, which, of course, no one survived. Unfortunately I didn’t listen to Crazy Glenn Beck after that one, so I’m not sure what follow-up message God was allegedly sending us there.

Why, divine smiting of the American people for electing a rabid Communist to lead God’s favorite country, of course.

Unfortunately for it, (a) it caught the attention of Gould, one of the better science writers of our time – with the result being a classic and authoritative work on monkeys, backs, and ‘education’

Um. Small problem. Gould wrote The Mismeasure of Man long before Murray wrote his little tome. Gould had rebutted The Bell Curve over ten years before it was written. Murray did fall into just about every one of those traps Gould outlines so clearly…

Argh… 1st para should be in blockquotes, goddamnit.

How about I call him “Crazy-ass Batshit insane babbling whacko flip-flopper* Glenn Blecch”? I know it’s a moutful but still, you want to be accurate.

*Wasn’t he one of these Right Wing Pundits who were floating the “the economy isn’t all that bad it’s just the defeatist liberal MSM that wants you to believe it is” arguement just a couple months back? Now he’s talking about hoarding gold like some Glibertarian Smaug and talking about 20% unemployment in the next couple years.

Why, divine smiting of the American people for electing a rabid Communist to lead God’s favorite country, of course.

And the fact that just days earlier, a plane crashed in the Hudson River and everyone survived?

Didn’t Gould write an addemdum to subsequent printings of The Mismeasure of Man specifically demolishing The Bell Curve?

Shell Goddamnit: Gould released a revised and expanded Mismeasure of Man in 1996 to include his critiques of the 1994 Bell Curve, which had been published in periodical form, for example, this 1994 review in the New Yorker.

You libruls can make fun of Glenn Beck, but surely you can’t argue that he wasn’t 100% correct as he broadcast in the middle of the DC Sniper siege that this meant that America Had Changed, and Nothing Will Ever Be Like Before because now the seed elements of Islamic jihadism would be around every corner shooting at us and then the lower elements of society would also break out into disorder and you could hardly drive to the bank without bullets hitting your car.

And the fact that just days earlier, a plane crashed in the Hudson River and everyone survived?

Duh, God proving his grace and mercifulness and love for humanity even when we turn our faces from his divine majesty!

Keep up, willya?

He does sort of look like the dad from “Six Feet Under.”

I was thinking the principal from “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” – the one eaten by a demon snake, not the one eaten by hyenas. The one whose actor was a Ferengi in one of the Star Trek shows.

I can haz bredline?
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-220015

Solomon Grundy.

Um. Small problem. Gould wrote The Mismeasure of Man long before Murray wrote his little tome. Gould had rebutted The Bell Curve over ten years before it was written. Murray did fall into just about every one of those traps Gould outlines so clearly…

I’m used to the revised edition, so mea culpa. 1996 is more thorough and specifically dealt with Bell Curve, but 1981 did in fact anticipate its arguments. Not like that was exactly a magic act – the right has been publishing ‘race and IQ’ dross since before IQ was actually invented, and a thriving cottage industry developed after the takeover of the neoconservative wing of the GOP by Southern Strategy bigots, which would be sometime between ’76 and ’79 – and Hernstein was already a big wheel there, back when the right was actually in the business of pretending to be rigorous. For both him and Murray, Bell Curve was originally just a meeting of fuck-the-poor boosterism and fuck-the-blacks boosterism, although Hernstein was plenty classist and Murray plenty racist before their collaboration.

However, it evolved into something more than that – Murray attempted to elevate the asinine concern-troll act so many neoconservatives affect when ranting-by-numbers about the awful welfare pickaninnies (‘We and everyone else in the Democrat Party were so full of precious hope for the future until those horrible blacks failed us, the poor color-TV-watching dears’) into something passable as scientific. In the end, it was just an increasingly transparent Trojan horse.

(And Guns, Germs, and Steel followed fairly shortly afterward anyway.)

Of course, even such a sloppy and obvious effort as that can be worse. If the current incarnation of Republicanism had a headstone, it could read “Bell Curve – Liberal Fascism“. If there’s a later point on that steep slope I don’t want to see it.

Yes, Charles, by all means let’s go back to cutting taxes for rich people, which has been an untrammeled success so far.

read my lips

I would, but I can’t find ’em.

BHO just submitted his budget, and has a $1.75 trillion deficit, and he wants to top it off with a $1 trillion tax increase next year.

BHO just submitted his budget, and has a $1.75 trillion deficit, and he wants to top it off with a $1 trillion tax increase next year.

My only regret is that the rich are asked to pay but one more trillion dollars to the country which made them rich.

However, that’s pretty good that to clean up from the Bush Jr. collapse, only $750 net billion may be added to the budget, considering we have to pay off Bush Jr’s Iraq war.

Unfortunately, Barack Obama is no Ronald Reagan, who imposed the biggest corporate tax hike and closing of wealthy tax loopholes in history, but I certainly like the cut of his jib.

BHO El Chimpo’s budget has trillions and trillions in deficits, and he topped it off with trillions in tax cuts for his cronies and rich fatcats who tried to bankrupt and ruin America.

FIxed it for ‘ya.

Bush didn’t do anything. He’s gone, libs. Take responsibility for the government you run.

And the government didn’t make the rich rich. The government had nothing to due with their success!

I was under the impression that most conservative economists are opposed to Obama’s stimulus plan precisely because a full Keynesian press has never been real-world tested. I am thus torn whether Murray is more stupid or disingenuous.

I don’t believe it will be necessary to appeal to a whole lot of folks in the future, the democrat house of cards will fall under its own weight. I already see it in many of the “thinking” people I know who supported Obama.

This is NOT the kind of “change” they were looking for.

Heh.

I just got a call from a customer of mine from when I was doing construction management who needs some work done on her house. After hearing what the project was, I informed her that I was no longer with the construction company, but that from what it sounded like she really just needed a good carpenter, and I know one I’ve worked with who’s looking for jobs who could do it for a lot less than the company I used to work for, so long as she understood that a) he is not a licensed contractor and b) he doesn’t carry the insurance that the company carries. She was fine with that. So, I a) got some work for a good guy who also got screwed by my former company, b) he’s going to pay me a small “finder’s fee” for finding him the work and writing up the estimate and c) it’s one less job that my asshole former boss can use to keep his rapidly sinking company afloat.

In other words, it’s all good.

We live in a bizarre world, where an Obama administration official suggests new gun restrictions, and Nancy Pelosi shoots the idea down.

W T F

And the government didn’t make the rich rich. The government had nothing to due with their success!

It had everything to do with it. That’s why the truly rich are so supportive of government involvement in the economy and for economic stability — they’re not idiots like the cheap hacks they hire to disseminate nonsense right wing propaganda.

People who think they grow rich solely by their own actions need to get the fuck out of the nation and go grow rich in Somalia or the Democratic Republic of Congo. (And not by arms contracts or other government contracts either.)

All government needs to do is run the court system, the police, pay for some roads, and protect against force and fraud.

Everything else successful people do on their own beyond that didn’t get any government help.

Only petulant children and unemployed/government employed losers suck off the government tit (and therefore are stealing money from the non-parasitic, productive members of society).

And the government didn’t make the rich rich. The government had nothing to due with their success!

So, the government had nothing to do with a) subsidizing certain types of business, b) building roads and other transportation infrastructure without which rich guys who, for example, own trucking companies wouldn’t be rich guys, c) operating an entire system of courts, etc for enforcing trademark, copyright, patent, and intellectual property rights without which quite a few rich guys wouldn’t be rich, d) maintaining the law and order without which business can’t function, e) providing educational opportunity without which rich guys wouldn’t have access to educated or skilled labor, or f) any number of other ways in which the government benefits the rich more than the average Joe?

My, aren’t you naive.

LOL you think government schools actually educate people? Anyone who is smart is smart and educated in spite of our incompetent government-run schools, not because of them.

Not to mention government run schools also brainwash our children with lib multi-culti propaganda and political correctness.

And I said government should operate courts and build roads, along with a police force to protect against force and fraud. But that’s where govt responsibility ENDS. PERIOD.

Anyone who is smart is smart and educated in spite of our incompetent government-run schools, not because of them.

Says the not-smart guy.

And we should accept the uninformed opinion of a not-smart guy because….?

How many libs here would send their children to Detroit public schools, or D.C. public schools? I know the President didn’t. Or Chicago Public Schools. I wonder why that is? After all, they spend tons of money per pupil (D.C. ranks near the top in this) and they’re run by libs and teachers unions!

Well, so much for this thread.

Quit yer whining bitches. I made myself rich and the US government had nothing to do with it.

Me too!

B-ored I-s T-roll E-mission M-aking E-veryone.

So, why don’t you want to send your kids to Detroit or D.C. public schools? Huh libs? Why? Stupid children. Join the real world.

And we made ourselves rich without government help even before Halliburton snapped us up for being so profitable without any govermant involvement whatsoever just like they did.

Oh, my, I wonder what schools Trolly pants went to?

Don’t forget about us!!!

So, why don’t you want to send your kids to Detroit or D.C. public schools? Huh libs? Why? Stupid children. Join the real world.

I’ll have you know that I am a product of southeast Michigan public schools, and am doing rather well. Certainly better, right now, than most MBA-types.

OT: At the risk of repeating myself (I left a comment about this yesterday), the SN! main page is FUBAR in some unknown (to me) way. The following symptoms are noted:

1- the main page stops loading after the main content (left pane) text; the blogroll panel(s) does not appear, nor the header graphic (sometimes more pictures show up, sometimes less); the tab is entitled “Connecting…” but the load progress bar is halted at approx. 25% and never completes

2- a line of script occupies the address bar, where normally “http://www.sadlyno.com/” would appear; to wit:

javascript: void(new function () { window._ff_getLocation = function() { return document.location.href; } })

3- if a new tab is opened to one of the posts, things appear to be normal

This situation started to occur approx. with Gavin’s “Joltin’ Joe” post last evening, and I noted it at the time in a comment to that post.

This info is FYI. SN! happens to be my home page (I love you guys!), and losing the blogroll is a big deal (to me). If one of the staff could somehow find it convenient to possibly look into, one would be gratified.

– AManOfConstantZorro

So, why don’t you want to send your kids to Detroit or D.C. public schools?

Uh, maybe because it would cost too much and be inefficient for the kids I don’t have to commute over 800 miles to school each day?

“I’ll have you know that I am a product of southeast Michigan public schools, and am doing rather well.”

Did you go to the inner city Detroit schools, or the nice suburban schools? I thought libs love “diversity” right?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/library/2009/02/commentator_buhrock_ohbahmah_i_1.html

Here is Barack Obama smacking down the Bell Curve in 1994.

fucking bizzare

War profiteering is NOT government assistance. Disagree and I’ll kill you.

Did you go to the inner city Detroit schools, or the nice suburban schools? I thought libs love “diversity” right?

The nice suburban ones.

I can’t speak for what “libs” like, but it’s good to know that “O-ne B-ig A-wful M-istake A-merica” likes trolling internet threads.

If I lived in inner-city Detroit or D.C. I’d certainly send my kids to public school. Now shut the frak up.

voodoo!

That is fucking awesome! What a find. What’s especiailly excellent is that it shows he’s been consistent and astute for at least 15 years.

“The nice suburban ones.”

Must have been one of those monocultural white schools. Why didn’t your parents send you to the inner city for some “diversity” and “multiculturalism”?

Typical limousine lib.

amocz –
Browser?
OS?

Typical limousine lib.

I’m confused. Are we a bunch of rich “limousine liberals” or “leaching welfare queens”?

You can’t even keep your straw-man arguments straight.

Clearly, the true mark of a liberal is to send one’s child to a failing school. Liberalism has nothing to do with wanting better schools for everyone’s children.

Shorter this douche:

Everything Obama wants has already failed and I am damn angry he won’t explain that what I already know to me.

Browser is IE7 running under Vista (yeah, yeah, I know, it sucks, but this ain’t my own machine, so I’m stuck with it!)

I for one have never been in a limousine. Except for that one time that I blew a major Chicago politician for crack. What was that nice young fella’s name? Brock Bama? Something like that.

Must have been one of those monocultural white schools. Why didn’t your parents send you to the inner city for some “diversity” and “multiculturalism”?

Typical limousine lib.

Do you have a problem with my success? Would you be happier if I was broke and starving?

“Do you have a problem with my success?”

No, but don’t argue that the government should take half our income and give it to parasites.

One of these days, the productive are going to leave and then who will you milk for taxes?

We are welfare queens who use our food stamps to buy enormous Hummer stretch limos. And inside of said limos, as Lenoak so correctly stated, we give hummers to major Chicago politicians (after dropping our kids off at a failing school).

Voila.

Half of your income!?! Since when has the government taken 2 sacks of beans from an unemployed pig slaughterer?

What we need is a spending FREEZE and a balanced budget.

No more government bailout buffet, period.

Trolly, I think someone’s dousing your little straw friend with lighter fluid. His pants are on fire.

You can’t even keep your straw-man arguments straight.

It is always hard to paint 87% of a country this big with a single brush.

One of these days, the productive are going to leave and then who will you milk for taxes?

Now I know that you’re a parody troll. Not even Randian maniacs can spout this stuff so bald facedly.

I know that I do not want any government agency protecting my right to drink clean water from the right of the paper manufacturer to get richer by putting chemicals into the ground HE HIMSELF OWNS that inevitably make their way into the water supply of the city where I live. Nor do I want any government agency mandating auto emissions so that my children aren’t crippled by asthma. And if our meat or salad fixings are contaminated because proper handling takes too big a bite out of corporate profits, then our immune systems just have to deal with it. And if I want to amass a store of grenades in the basement, WHICH I MYSELF OWN, I do not expect any interference from any government. And if I’ve got the money it’s only right that I can sashay into the drug store and buy all the Oxycontin and amphetamines I require. Oh, and newly developed antibiotics, too. If my careless use of unprescribed antibiotics ruins them for future use by leading to drug-resistant strains of bacteria that kill other people, well, all I can say is, I bought them WITH MONEY I MYSELF EARNED, so back off! If private charity fails to take care of the unemployable people who park their shopping carts behind the library, well, their death from cold or starvation is a price I’m prepared to pay for FREEDOM!

I owe nothing to my luck at being born into a middle class family headed by a man who used the GI Bill to get an electrical engineering degree in 1949. Nope, nothing. Kids who choose to be born to poor people or irresponsible people made a bad decision and must live with the consequences.

What we need is a spending FREEZE.

The economy is faltering! I know what we should do: refuse to spend any money!

I closed the browser and reopened it and the blogroll and main page graphics are there now(!)

the line of javascript still appears in the address bar, however, and now that the page load finishes, it is also the title of the main page tab (it replaces “Sadly, No!”)

this is back to the situation as it was when that line of script (and the problem) first showed up; the infinite hang was a “new” development of some hours ago

oh well, if necessary, I can live with this, but something ain’t just like it always wuz, i’m tellin’ ya!

All spending will do is bring us back to the 1970s and hypreinflation we had under Jimmy Carter. No to inflation!

One of these days, the productive are going to leave and then who will you milk for taxes?

Yeah, all you second-handers are gonna be totally fucked when us members of the creative minority go on strike!

I went to public school in southeastern VA and all of my schools were socioeconomically and racially diverse. Clearly, I turned out better than Troofie, or whatever the fuck he’s calling himself these days.

You lose, troll. Try again.

Chrypre-inflation would be kind of cool. I love that scent – so understated and elegant.

All spending will do is bring us back to the 1970s and hypreinflation we had under Jimmy Carter. No to inflation!

Troofy, take it up with your hero El Chimpo, who spent like a drunk republican trolling airport bathroom stalls looking for wetsuit sex the past 8 years.

And you STILL owe S,N! lots and lots of apologies. Whatever happened to the “personal responsibility” that your stupid whackjob wingnuts give lip service to?

IE7 under XP does not reproduce problem. Don’t got no vista machine.
Suspect problem with vista jre (java runtime engine). Go to http://java.com/en/download/manual.jsp and try installing the real jre. I haven’t kept up with this shit for some time but I do know that Mickeysoft’s java has been problematic for years.

But seriously, back to my original intent for this thread:

As far as conventional wisdom goes, it’s always the liberals and Democrats that want to take our firearms away, or restrict purchase, or rail against “assault weapons.” With that in mind, I’d like to ask this;

* Eric Holder, a spoksperson for a decidedly centrist administration, floats the idea of reinstating the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban
* Nancy Pelosi, an abasedly liberal representative from California, essentially says, “no way, na ga happen.”

So I’m a little confused. The centrists, who by definition are more “conservative” than Nancy Pelosi, are suggesting firearms restrictions, while evil liberal representative from the People’s Republic of San Fran is shooting it down. It’s almost as if conventional wisdom is wrong, or something.

cowalker,

Excellent points, all of them. Too bad that the person in this thread who needs to pay attention to them the most isn’t interested in honest debate. fuckems what I say.

You know, if I called Obama “el chimpo” I would get Al Sharpton protesting outside my door.

That’s because Pelosi knows she couldn’t get it through the Senate. Too many pro-gun Dems now, thankfully.

Carter is to blame for the economy during his term, and Clinton is to blame for the economy under Bush II.

Reagan can take credit for the economy during his term, but Clinton cannot take credit for the economy under his term.

Carter is the blame for the economy under Bush I. FDR is to blame for the economy under Hoover. Obama is to blame for the economy from 2006 onwards, until it gets better, which will be due to George Bush.

I’m so confused!

That’s because Pelosi knows she couldn’t get it through the Senate. Too many pro-gun Dems now, thankfully.

Dude, Pelosi’s in the House.

You’re “Not-Inner-City-Detroit-or-DC” education isn’t serving you very well. Now get the fuck out of my thread.

You know, if I called Obama “el chimpo” I would get Al Sharpton protesting outside my door.

It would be the highlight of your entire pathetic life, Troofy.

“Dude, Pelosi’s in the House.”

No shit, asshole. It has to pass the Senate to become law, and she knew that couldn’t happen, even if she got it through the House.

Dipshit.

Correction: “the problem” I have been ranting about first showed up associated with the “Shorter Bill Kristol” post, not “Joltin’ Joe” as I indicated above.

Gavin is off the hook. Your bad, Brad!

So, how could Pelosi, “know that she couldn’t get it through the Sentate” then, given that she’s in the House?

And don’t get defensive on me, I’m not the one fucking up the thread.

BTW I’m laughing at your failed, Democrat-run state (Michigan) drowning because of the UAW.

A co-worker told me about a uniquely Quebecois dessert yesterday – maple sugar pie.

It’s a thin pie crust spread with maple butter, then topped with maple sugar. The hard core enjoy it served with maple walnut ice and drizzled with maple syrup.

They serve it here.

“So, how could Pelosi, “know that she couldn’t get it through the Sentate” then, given that she’s in the House?”

Cause she has this thing called the “telephone” and can ask Harry Reid what are the chances of it getting through the Senate? Or even (gasp!) go across the Capitol and speak to him about it?

Cognitive dissonance n. Psychology.

A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one’s beliefs and one’s actions.

Too many pro-gun Dems now, thankfully.

BTW I’m laughing at your failed, Democrat-run state (Michigan) drowning because of the UAW.

Obviously you don’t understand how autoworkers’ contracts are written. You need auto executives to sign as well.

Maybe, Troofy, if you ever finish your junior high school curriculum you will be able to comprehend the basics of civilized society.

But I doubt it.

So I’m a little confused. The centrists, who by definition are more “conservative” than Nancy Pelosi, are suggesting firearms restrictions, while evil liberal representative from the People’s Republic of San Fran is shooting it down. It’s almost as if conventional wisdom is wrong, or something.

Something tells me you watch a lot of cable TV news.

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I don’t like the auto executives, either. Just a bunch of government tit suckers at the bailout pig trough. Plus, Detroit cars suck.

Please. Let the troll stew in his own juice. Don’t add to it.

.

Cause she has this thing called the “telephone” and can ask Harry Reid what are the chances of it getting through the Senate? Or even (gasp!) go across the Capitol and speak to him about it?

So, you think the reporter asked Pelosi the question, she told him to hold on a second, and then she ran across the Capitol to talk with Reid? I don’t think so.

It’s more likely that people (such as Nancy Pelosi) who are “liberal” believe in “liberties,” of which gun ownership is one. This is in contrast to “conservatives,” who believe in… what? “conservation?”

Anyways, the world is safe once more for freedom now that liberals are in charge!

BTW I’m laughing at your failed, Democrat-run state (Michigan) drowning because of the incompetent Republicant auto execs who ran the companies into the ground. UAW

All too easy.

I don’t like the auto executives, either. Just a bunch of government tit suckers at the bailout pig trough. Plus, Detroit cars suck.

Now you’re just getting petulant for the sake of trying to get under my skin.

Anyways, come back when you believe in something more than “pissing off the_millionaire_lebowksi.”

“Now you’re just getting petulant for the sake of trying to get under my skin.”

Just saying the truth. Union made cars are terrible. How many ten year old Chevy Cavaliers do you see on the road? Compare that to (non-Union made) Honda Civics.

Aaaah. Killfile is sooo sweet. It cuts the amount of crap I have to wade through by nearly half. Hint.

Everything I parrot here came straight from the pie narcotics hole of my hero Rush Draftdodger Limballs. It’s gotta be the TRUTH.

Plus, Detroit cars suck.

Funny, my ’98 Ford is still going strong – and during its lifetime I’ve spent a lot less on repairs than I did on the little Japanese riceburner I owned before I bought it.

It’s worth pointing out here that Japan has a far wider reaching social safety net than the US, and thus does not require unions. Are you arguing for universal health care and government-sponsored job training? It sounds like you and I have a bright future ahead for our new-found political collaboration.

Troll makes forum appearance crying for attention.

Regulars acknowledge flinging his poo back at him.

Troll yaps more, succeeding in derailing thread.

Troll wins again.

“It’s worth pointing out here that Japan has a far wider reaching social safety net than the US, and thus does not require unions.”

LOL they build their cars here, in non-Union states at competitive wages. That’s why their kicking Detroit’s ass.

It’s worth pointing out here that Japan has a far wider reaching social safety net than the US, and thus does not require unions. Are you arguing for universal health care and government-sponsored job training? It sounds like you and I have a bright future ahead for our new-found political collaboration.

(head explodes)

In Japan they have company unions, something libs outlawed here. It’s a union owned by the corporation where the relationship is isn’t adversarial between employee and employer.

and by “we” I include policy analysts on the left as well as right.
Evidently Charles Murray is a Moderate Centrist, so we should listen to him.

But the cars built here? Non-union. And they’re better. Union workers are lazy, face it.

It’s a union owned by the corporation

this really is an irony-free zone.

One of these days, the productive are going to leave and then who will you milk for taxes?

I guess we’ll have to find some other tit to supple.

Funny, my ‘98 Ford is still going strong – and during its lifetime I’ve spent a lot less on repairs than I did on the little Japanese riceburner I owned before I bought it.

No shit. I may be biased given my family’s history at General Motors, but I have always had the impression that the Japanese had an overrated reputation, especially when it comes to longevity.

Umm, alec, I was continuing the Monty Python reference in the vein of the post body….

…

Whoever the troll is, he’s not the original Truth.

O.G. Truthie had an Illinois IP; this guy’s posting from Virginia.

Pardon me if I fail to become involved in the trollery. I ain’t biting today, and anyway it’s a particularly bad one, from the looks of it. I give it a c-minus and a warning to try harder next semester.

Yup. My dad inherited an ancient red Dodge Ram which still runs like a dream, but we also have a thirteen-year-old Toyota Camry…

Still, blaming the auto workers’ unions is practically a non-starter. The union workers aren’t the ones responsible for coming up with creative ideas for products that sell; only for producing those products regardless of how they sell.

Teachers’ unions, on the other hand…

Virginia?

George? Is that you, George?

“Still, blaming the auto workers’ unions is practically a non-starter. The union workers aren’t the ones responsible for coming up with creative ideas for products that sell; only for producing those products regardless of how they sell.”

I’ve always blamed the engineers who designed the crap and the execs who dictated what kind of crap they should engineer. If the design is a piece of crap, then it doesn’t matter what kind of worker you have, it’s still crap.

Oh, jeezus on a ham sammitch, I might as well.

Bush didn’t do anything. He’s gone, libs. Take responsibility for the government you run.

So, um, Bush was allowed a 8-month start-up period at the beginning of his occupation, which meant that 9/11 was Clinton’s fault, but if the economy sucks dead moose balls ’cause El Chubracabra has been undercutting it for the last 8 years, well, Obama is a failure ’cause he’s had a WHOLE MONTH in office to make everything better and he hasn’t done it yet. And that’s why Crazy-Ass Batshit-Insane Glenn Bleccch had a nightmare about dogs eating children’s faces. Or something.

I TOLD you guys I wasn’t “troofy”.

Even shorter “Chuckie’s fantasy land”

Dr. Ian Malcolm Charles Murray: Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that’s how it always starts. Then later there’s running and screaming.

Um, the First Lady went to Chicago Public Schools (as did I and at the same time).

LOL they build their cars here, in non-Union states at competitive wages. That’s why their kicking Detroit’s ass.

The non-union shops in the south raise their wages to match the union shops in the north as a means of labor competition. In this way all auto workers, whether unionized or not, benefit from the labor of the UAW.

So come on, you know you’re not saying anything novel here. Every talking point you have has been refuted on this website and elsewhere. Now you have two options:

1.) Go back and reflect on the state of conservativism/jingoism/trogdolytism/anti-the_millionaire_lebowskiism (or whatever you call your ideology), and come up with some novel arguments (as opposed to talking points), and than try again.

2.) Go all Bobby Jindal on us, and recite the same trite talking points that we’ve been hearing for the last thirty years.

The choice is yours, and I know you know what you should do.

Whoever the troll is, he’s not the original Truth.

I was thinking that this twit sounds like Teh Toof’s idiot cousin, or something. Toofie, at least, had some small command of the English language, and wouldn’t make obvious errors in third-grade level math.

It’s a union owned by the corporation where the relationship is isn’t adversarial between employee and employer.

We have those here too.

They’re called “Prison Stoolies”

Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that’s how it always starts. Then later there’s running and screaming.
Indeed, this is why I am no longer invited to family weddings.

Duh, God proving his grace and mercifulness and love for humanity even when we turn our faces from his divine majesty!

Keep up, willya?

So God loves NYC, but hates working class, blue collar, Middle America Boffalo????

Wow, God’s a LIBERAL!

Shhhhhh! Don’t say Halliburton! It’s XE now, got it?!??! XE! No Halliburton! Never was a Halliburton! Just a good, altruistic, patriotic company called XE!

Jeez, you idiots almost gave the whole game away!

Indeed, this is why I am no longer invited to family weddings.

Hey, it’s a family wedding. I know, i tried to start one there…

week
veal
tip
etc.

XE = Blackwater, not Halliburton.

Actually, it’s Blackwater -> XE, not Halliburton -> XE.

Now you’ve REALLY given it away!!!! Commies!!!!

Charles Manson probably went to public schools.

I rest my case.

Wow, interesting. That time tag on my post above says I posted it tomorrow. How cool. I didn’t know I was prescient. Or is it omnipotent?

I bet there’s a way I could make some big money off something like this.

I didn’t know I was prescient.

Can I be vice-prescient?

Jennifer said, at 19:50

Jennifer, you are so totally my hero this last couple of days! You’re sounding like a one-woman recovery package all on your ownsome – congrats and kudos. Mebbe you could hire yourself out to the administration as a magic anti-recession widget?

Damn WP, I meant to add for Jennifer – all they’d need to do is rub you for good luck.

That might cost a lot extra, depending on who they get to do the rubbing.

About halfway through the speech, my wife, watching me mutter darkly at the television screen, said: “Why are you so upset?
She added “You haven’t got the TV set turned on, moron”

FIFY

charles murray is a really bad person. i have extensive research that proves it. also, graphs. &c.

charles murray I haven’t heard of