Eliminationism Week Continues (Updated Since Last You Checked)
Welp, might as well dive into this.
We haven’t reviewed Jammie Wearing Fool’s work until now, as far as I can remember, even though he’s something of a treasure.
Whenever you consider a timely issue and try to anticipate the crazy, way-overboard commentary that will emit from the right-bloggers, some of them will display what in other animals is called cunning. They will remain a couple of decisions ahead of you, anticipating your anticipation as it were, and will come at the topic from some sly, oblique angle that leaves unsaid anything that would, you know, make for a satisfyingly apropos Shorter or that could profitably be superimposed onto a photo of themselves in misspelled comedy text.
But Jammie Wearing Fool will generally say what you think he would say. His pseudonym suggests a self-awareness for which no other evidence has been found. We imagine him as a disheveled, feety smelling man of 5’6″ or so and a silhouette like a fireplug, drinking endless cups of bad coffee as talk radio yells and chatters around him in an endless blare, like the radio in Bad Lieutenant. We like him and think of him in a way as a friend, as our hypothetical Everynut. If he notices us, it’s certain his opinion is less salutory — ‘despision,’ if you could do such a thing to the verb, ‘(to) despise.’
Today with the New York Post cartoon that has lately been so much of note, he didn’t disappoint.
To be continued below shortly, i.e. this evening, i.e. not like those things that I intend to do all the time, yet do not do. (Excelsior.)
In between this and that, Jammie Wearing Fool noticed us noticing him and was moved to comment.
Update: Some leftwing douchebag with a bad case of projection decided to link. Figured you folks could use a good laugh.
But Jammie Wearing Fool will generally say what you think he would say. His pseudonym suggests a…
Well, there’s no need to quote the quote and make a whole postmodern hall of mirrors out of things.
Gee, they’re on to me. Only off by nine inches. And, well, everything else. I doubt they’re bright enough to figure out the genesis of the name, either, so let’s just let small minds wander.
Idiots.
There’s too much arguing on the Internet.
In the abovelinked post on the chimp cartoon, the dense-packed, veering quality so enjoyable in Jammie Wearing Fool’s work makes it hard to do the normal close reading. I have instead begun by attempting a summary and providing footnotes:
These liberal wackos are always looking for hidden messages.1 Clearly unable to understand what satire is,2 except of course when they rush to use the satire defense themselves.3 Here’s Obama water-carrier Sam Stein, a nutroots blogger4 who magically found himself seated in the front row at the Obama press conference last week, so you know he’s in the back pocket of the administration.5
Summary: Liberals are faulty in a way appropriate to the topic. Ha ha can’t take a joke; howl shriek they are persecuting us. An individual is accused of poorly defined offenses, conclusion: conspiracy.
2 Cf.
4 Cf.: “Sam Stein is a Political Reporter at the Huffington Post, based in Washington, D.C. Previously he has worked for Newsweek magazine, the New York Daily News and the investigative journalism group Center for Public Integrity. He has a masters from the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism and is a graduate of Dartmouth College.”
5 Achoo!
So we’re off to a pretty good start, more or less. Back soon, as above!
So, it’s surprising when you think about M.F.K. Fisher and realize how narrow was the range of the things she wrote about — food principally, Alsace and the food there, love and marriage through the medium of food, character sketches of culinary people. It’s surprising because of the spaciousness of her best work and its Technicolor vividness. It suggests that as a rule, writing doesn’t have to be ‘about’ its topic, because if you’re observant and honest as a writer, maybe also ruthless in a way that Fisher was, then you’ll necessarily pay more attention to worldly distinctions among things than to literary ones. I mean that whatever good writing tries to be about, it ends up being about the world in its damnable bigness and specificity.
Food is an excellent point of entry because of how soon and intimately it touches the vitals, as it were. I think all of these things presumptuously, in any case, because Fisher was a better technical prose writer in passing than I’ve managed to be on purpose. But I’m not sure anymore that there are any excuses in the topic I’ve been interested in, which is the topic of conservatism, specifically ditchweed conservatism, chiefly toward the end of calling it names.
A cartoon likening the author of the stimulus bill, perhaps President Barack Obama, with a rabid chimpanzee graced the pages of the New York Post on Wednesday.
No, because the world is in it like the moon in a puddle, or a mirror or a scanner darkly, or some metaphor. Because you try to be like, “Aah, chimpanzee, WTF, stupid buttclown,” but there’s a sort of negative genius to these things, and always more to them than you can quite get at, let alone finding words that make a kind of sense close to the one that you think is there.
In this case, as in an increasing number of others, part of the uncanniness is in the way the contemporary wingnut imagination seems to move naturally along tracks rutted by the Know-Nothings, and by the now-obscure enthusiasms and hatreds of the paranoid nuts of the 19th Century. Like artifacts from different site strata, the ravings of their wingnuts and ours are distinct and variously wrought, but recognizably from the same culture, the same people in the distributed, volkisch sense of the term.
[Back again, as above]
The problem with that cartoon isn’t that it’s racist.
Nor is it the fact that it’s unfunny.
No, the problem is that it makes no fucking sense.
You are perceptive, Mr Gill
the cartoonist seems to have decided because of the recent “cop shoots chimp” story that he could portray President Obama as a monkey and then deny everything by claiming that he meant the chimp that got shot. yeah, uh-huh…
It’s typical NY Post fodder.
Racist, stupid, and it makes no fucking sense.
Uh huh. Right. Sure. We believe you.
.
Oh, man. This is great.
“Do you really think I’m saying Obama should be shot? I didn’t see that in the cartoon,” Delonas said. “It’s about the economic stimulus bill. If you’re going to make that about anybody, it would be [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi”
OK, OK. He added, “which it’s not” to that last sentence.
I doubt that he’s capable of actually making a comic that’s supposed to have undertones, racist or not.
I follow the news constantly. I read a shitload of blogs, including
comments, and I never heard about this rabid fuckin’ chimp until today.
Maybe it happened when I had some fun a day last week and took off from obsessive blog reading?
So, what the fuck will Low Information Voters get out of this ‘cartoon’?
So, what the fuck will Low Information Voters get out of this ‘cartoon’?
Sean Delonas is an idiot?
Seems as valuable a lesson as they come.
IIt makes no sense, but it’s also racist and unfunny.
Andrew A. Gill, SLS:
More accurately, it makes no sense unless one assumes a racist context – the same racist context the cartoonist would deny is there. And even then it only makes sense as a revenge fantasy.
.
Loved this comment on that blog:
How is it that anyone can be this tone-deaf in 2009? There’s no double-standard you mouth-breather. There’s one standard and it’s the historic categorization of blacks as simians in order to denigrate their collective ability to fully participate in American society. Comparing a white person to a chimp is not in any way the same thing as comparing a black person to one. It’s not that fucking complicated if you have an ounce of intelligence and sensitivity.
jlo | 02.18.09 – 8:34 pm | #
Exactly.
You just can’t get there from here.
I’d say it was an utter non sequitor, but that implies some kind of clever disconnect.
The cartoon was just a guy who wanted to insult Obama in a racist and violent manner, and no lack of material was going to prevent him from forcing that KKK-shaped peg into that small, round hole. If the wacky doped-up chimp in connecticut hadn’t gone all DeMeo on that poor old women, this piece of shit would have had to find another route from American President to dead monkey.
And, by the way, that said, I’d like a big slice of that nice Roast Beef on the right sidebar. I’m gonna cube it up and braise it with root vegetables…
mikey
Even then it makes no sense.
Though I should probably clarify that it is clearly racist–whether the cartoonist intended it or not.
No, really.
I’m obviously some kind of wingnut, because this is how I read the cartoon: “At its most benign, the cartoon suggests that the stimulus bill was so bad, monkeys may as well have written it.” From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/new-york-post-chimp-carto_n_167841.html
I mean, clearly the cartoonist is – at best – an idiot for not realizing that people could or would see racist undertones. But, I literally didn’t see the undertones at all until the Sadly Nauts and Sam Stein pointed it out to me. I don’t know what, if anything, that means.
(Incidentally, I knew about the chimp who was killed, because I read it on the Yahoo homepage yesterday. It was one of the top stories. I’m somewhat of an animal lover, so I always read those stories. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it.)
The cartoon is racist even if the the cartoonist isn’t aware that it is. After all, if Ted Haggard can have meth fueled hawt gay sex with a gay male prostitute and NOT understand the “sexual undertones”, then this cartoonist can be just as clueless about race.
I have a new theory and we need a wingnut and a Skinner box. Put a piece of tape on his coat and see if he notices.
‘We imagine him as a disheveled, feety smelling man of 5?6? or so and a silhouette like a fireplug, drinking endless cups of bad coffee as talk radio yells and chatters around him in an endless blare, like the radio in Bad Lieutenant. ‘
Actually, dipshit, I’m a well cut 6-3 and don’t drink very much coffee. Wasn’t very fond of Bad Lieutenant, but Reservoir Dogs was pretty cool. Think Michael Madsen and you probably have a better depiction of me.
Sorry to ruin your fantasy.
Yay!
Not to mention your ninja skills and that Canadian girlfriend.
Anyhoo, it should be worth noting that JWF is one of Ye Olde Perfessor’s favorite Instalanche victims (rivaling Gateway and Cornfed), which says tons for both parties in question.
Think Michael Madsen and you probably have a better depiction of me.
You mean you’re a hack and suck at what you do? I can see that.
Thanks, JWF.
You post exactly like I guessed you would.
I noticed that JWF didn’t deny being “feety smelling.”
But Jammie Wearing Fool will generally say what you think he would say.
Hey! You know what I’d expect JWF to say?
You are an excellent judge of character over here at Sadly, No! Industries.
Titanium .357, 8″ switchblade, custom italian leather boots and girlfriend who looks like Angelina Jolie?
We’ve met.
meh…
mikey
Ah, the age old “stupid or evil” debate. I’m going to cheat and pick both on this one. He meant to portray Obama as a monkey, but thought it was subtle enough that no one would catch on. Except he doesn’t even leave a possible alternative explanation, making him both stupid and evil.
JWF – I have this Skinner box over here. Could you step inside please? There is a nice large food pellet for you. Don’t pay attention to the mirror or the electric wires on the floor. You’ll be fine and we’ll return you to your flock very soon.
Thanks.
Dan, I do believe you’re correct.
Does “well cut” mean his circumcision was a success?
Of course, there ain’t no wingnut blog without the prerequisite versions of Bookmark this, liberals:
And don’t forget the truncated Election Night Live Blog!
Tee hee!
Gah! HTML fail!
JWF’s blogger profile also says what you would expect him to say (by that I mean his choice of picture).
(by that I mean his choice of picture)
And if you click it to full size you can see the cum stains!
Geez, you’d think if he was a cut 6’3″ he wouldn’t need to use the Eastwood picture. Hmm…
Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd! Heh. Indeed. Hope and Change! Read the whole thing. Chris Dodd!
I’m going with Michael Madsen in Kill Bill vol 2: tall, maybe, but with hunched shoulders and a big fat gut. And notice the near Freudian slip: I’ve spent plenty of time in gyms, and no one *ever* says “well cut”. JWF pretty obviously couldn’t whether he should lie about being “cut” or “well hung.”
From JWF’s site:
Fess up, one of you wrote that to mess with the wingnuts over there.
if Ted Haggard can have meth fueled hawt gay sex
Sorry. That would be quite impossible and damn you to hell for making me even think about it.
Come on! Lighten up, and get a life.
People need to stop being so P.C. about these things.
, I’m a well cut 6-3
JWF, let a regular give you tip, so to speak. Circumcision is a taboo topic here. Also, is that supposed to be length x width or what?
aw fack, length – girth of course
People need to stop being so P.C. about these things.
Are you serious or just fucking around? It’s 2009, dude, “Can’t we all just enjoy a hearty nigger joke” doesn’t cut the mustard anymore. And what’s with the wimpy “don’t be PC” dodge, anyway? Stand up and own that racism, fer cryin’ out loud.
Let me put it this way:
There was an actual news event involving cops shooting an ape yesterday.
The guy had an idea that he wanted to use the dead ape to symbolize something to do with the economy. He did it in an unfortunate way that indicates Obama as the shot ape (although Obama’s “propellerhead” economics team also wrote the bill, and Congress rewrote it).
Political cartoons are all about glib analogies and visual symbols. Barack Obama is president of the United States. People will likely use various symbols to represent Obama, and people will use various symbols to represent other things that will be presented next to Obama. Some of these will, intentionally or otherwise, offend some people, either because people are trying to be intentionally inflammatory, or because people are unaware of what is offensive.
I would ordinarily presume a monkey-related cartoon referring to Obama to be intentionally race-baiting. But in this case, the reference is to an actual monkey-related major news story that happened yesterday, and I think it needs to be viewed in that context.
If I had drawn it, I would have made the cop with the gun Geithner, the other cop Obama, labeled the ape “Wall Street” and the gun “TARP,” and the caption would be “That’s not what I thought was going to happen.”
no one *ever* says “well cut”
Customers do.
Sorry, given the quality of PJF’s commentary, I have grave doubts about his ability to properly use a tape measure.
I’m going for 5’3″ now.
The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons. The Messiah! What media bias? Hugo Chavez! Morons.
Well, thanks Neil.
That completely clears it up for me.
Pssshhhh…
mikey
Man, that’s the exact same comment “Mitchforth” made at Pandagon to wave this off. And even in the context of the monkey shooting story, it’s a lazy, racist and above all unfunny cartoon. Why is it every time there’s some lunkheaded racist nonsense, people start whining about “political correctness”? Why can’t y’all whine about how conservatives just can’t do humor?
In case anyone is interested, I had posted a short expose on JWF last year.
Quite true. As you’d see from my link, and reiterated by his visit in this thread, JWF appears to have a certain affinity with the word “dipshit”, in particular.
Maybe Neil, maybe. Every culture has it’s taboos and as a political cartoonist it’s one’s business to know what they are. So it’s still a question of evil or stupid and I vote both/and.
…the reference is to an actual monkey-related major news story that happened yesterday…
check your “Monkey Times” – where’s my banana?
aw fack, length – girth of course
Could be girth – length. I’m having fun imagining JWF with a 3″ long penis that is 2″ wide.
If I recall Obama had not much to do with writing the stimulus plan.He passed it off to Pelosi/Reid.I guess the cartoon should have been an owl and a sea lion then.I get a kick that for years the lefties called Bush,”Curious George’ and even drew pictures of the two of them with both looking identical to each other and now we have a president that actually looks like Curious George and yet no drawings.Hmmm.
Oh come on! How often did people compare Bush to a chimp? Spare me the P.C. lynch mob.
Noen, it’s the NYPost. They know their audience, as does this cartoonist.
The answer is stupid and evil.
No need to vote.
now we have a president that actually looks like Curious George
Ummm, what?
How does Obama look anything like Curious George?
Wow. You Know Who has brought his straw friend to the party. Hello, straw guy! Nice to see you!
Again with the PC whine? Can’t you think of an original one, at least? Jesus, own it, man.
Also, if you can point out where white folk were regularly compared to our simian cousins as a means of showing how not-like-us they are, much like black folk have been for a couple hundred years, then you might have a point.
But you can’t, so you don’t. Shit for brains.
George W. Bush. He was constantly compared to a chimp. Look here: http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/bush_monkey.jpg
I thought that was funny, too. I think it is important to be able to laugh at our President. It is dangerous when we have a P.C. lynch mob ready to hang cartoonists for the mere criticism of our government.
I don’t know about you, but I’m pro-First Amendment.
Oh, sure. See, racism is…hang on, there’s more!
Huh. I wonder, were you told that by people here, or did you hear that somewhere else? If you heard it somewhere else, you might do better to ask the people who told you that, since I cannot speak for them.
Neil, are you saying any time there is a story about a primate, conservatives will have 24 hours of grace to call Obama a monkey, because the media likes monkey stories and I’d say there is one at least monthly.
Didn’t Colbert even have a running segment about escaped monkeys?
I’d be willing to bet money that the cartoonist had the entire thing drawn, and the caption balloon was blank until very shortly before deadline, when he said, ‘F*** it, that’s all I got.” And there was no one either around or willing to say, “Um, yeah, about that…”
Knowing Delonas’ oeuvre, he can provide plenty of context when he wants to; whenever he would do a cartoon about NJ ex-Gov. McGreevey, for example, the panel would be packed wall-to-wall with limp wrists and light loafers and girly drinks and Village People and sheep making bedroom eyes and what-have-you. Here, it’s just a cop shooting a monkey and another cop insinuating that it was the author of the stimulus bill; in any other Delonas cartoon there’d have been a giant “WELCOME TO CONNECTICUT” sign in the corner and rabies froth everywhere and a shrieking housewife running away and basically whatever “I AM REFERRING TO AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED” signals he could pack in.
George W. Bush. He was constantly compared to a chimp.
Look, ya big whiner, no one ever called George W. Bush a subhuman ape; they just said he had jug ears. For quite a while, racists have said black folk weren’t friggin’ human when they compared them to apes. Do you get it? I hope so, because frankly, I don’t think you really want to. And “lynch mob” is rich, real rich, especially coming from someone waving off lunkheaded racism and lazy stereotyping. When someone actually strings someone up, then give me a call. Otherwise, cut out your sobbing.
Okay. Assertions 1, 2, and 3 are wrong. That’ll be $50.
[ citation needed ]
See, it would have been funny if he had drawn the dead chimp and labeled it Simian Hegemony and then the cops with the smoking gun could be all like “Sic Semper Tyrannis!”
Curious George is smart. Americans love Curious George. Comparing Bush to Curious George is an insult to Curious George.
how can a cartoon be racist?
Cartoons, like all art, are speech and can therefore be racist. Speech can be racist even if the speaker did not intend it.
I am told that only white Westerners can be racist because racism is an exercise of power.
That isn’t true. That is your interpretation of what you were told. That’s because you are racist pig.
I must have missed that part of the First Amendment which guarantees the right of douchebags to publish racist cartoons without any criticism or complaint.
Come on, look at this link:
http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/bush_monkey.jpg
Why no outrage over that? Not that I think there should be any.
I’m pro-free speech, 100% without reservation.
So, you trolls are saying that ex-pretendizent McFlightsuit does NOT look like a chimp? So — you think only blacks look like simians, is that it?
How often did people compare Bush to a chimp?
About as often as he looked like one. I. e., most of the time.
And Bush both looks & acted a hell of a lot more like Curious George than B. O. does.
I’m going with “stupid” over “evil”, but I would extend that appellation to not just the cartoonist, but everybody with editorial oversight who saw the cartoon before it ran, and then add to that list the likes of Neil if they can’t see that the cartoon is an appalling gaffe at best.
Just think, if the caption had read, “The president will have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill” none of this would have happened. It would still have been a piece of lackwitted partisan hackery, but…
Obama looks like a chimp about as much as Dubya did.
Come on, look at O’s ears!
I’m pro-free speech, 100% without reservation.
So, why are you trying to suppress my First Amendment right to call the NY Post a bunch of racist doody-heads? I mean, it’s not like anyone from the actual government has tried to shut ’em down or nothing. Just a bunch of folks have called out their lazy, unfunny racist cartoon for what it is. I don’t think you actually understand what the First Amendment’s all about, to be quite honest.
I’m pro-free speech, 100% without reservation.
So you’d defend our right to profess our outrage at this sort of cartoon?
criminal incompetence of the
Democratic Congressentire Bush Admin.Works now.
Curious George is also curious, another attribute lacking in the last President.
Ah.. no Mentis Fuckwit – If it had said that the cartoonist would be in jail.
How often did people compare Bush to a chimp?
It was a Intertrons tradition, so it was something like 3333 times every 3 minutes. I mean, c’mon, I can’t even count the number of times over the last eight years I saw “Chimpy McBushitler & Co.” on the front page of the New York Times. Seriously, though, why isn’t there a White History Month?
Weeelll, Oh KAY then.
As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t find any value in arguing with idiots.
So I’ll check in with y’all in a couple days.
But hey, we had fun there for a minute, didn’t we?
mikey
Of course. But this cartoonist shouldn’t be fired over it. The NY POST has a right to keep him, regardless of what others think.
I think there is a bit of a double standard over liberal vs. conservative cartoonists, though.
Ok, “Truth”, just so’s you know and this is the only time I’m engaging your disingenuous ass.
Well, does racial hatred fueled torture and murder count?
I’m talking about the “PC lynch mob” Neil here’s crying about, not your fantasy world where all black men are violent, honky hating thugs just looking to work out on Mr. Charlie. Got me? Different dingleberry’s fantasy this time, not your’s. Far as I’m concerned, you can go back to hiding under your blankie.
There are 11 of them.
Where did I say anything about race?
Won’t Chimpy become upset if people start calling Obama “Chimpy?”
P. S., you stupid loathsome ignorant morons (Jammie Fool’s “scathing humor”) chimpanzees are apes, like us, NOT MONKEYS!!!
There’s a fucking difference, try to learn it!!
(Jeezis, must be dinner time, I sho’ nuff is cranky!)
“The NY POST has a right to keep him” and everyone else has a right to pressure them to fire him. Funny how that freedom thing works for everyone and not just those YOU approve of.
not just the cartoonist, but everybody with editorial oversight who saw the cartoon before it ran
It’s from The New York Post. Shit like this is the reason Rupert Murdoch subsidizes its multi-billion-dollar annual losses. They’re only doing their job.
The P.C. lynch mob I’m speaking of is made up of rich, coastal white liberals.
I really think most black people (i.e., those who aren’t in the race business which is 99.9%) don’t care about this.
Sorry Ryan, missed the sarcasm in that.
Matt T:
Yeah, but his sister is hot.
.
Where did I say anything about race?
Jesus Christ A’might, pay attention, would you? I said the “PC lynch mob” you’re pissing and moaning about. The other guy’s hung up on race, you’re hung up on false dichotomies.
Fuck it, you’re not worth the effort either, apparently.
No, it’s just brazen dishonesty.
And you are also lazy, for not caring enough to find out the accurate truth, instead settling for a preassembled hodgepodge of factoids and half-truths commonly used by racists to back up their inexcusable hatred.
Sorry, it’s been tried. With those same facts. And experience shows us that people who try this do not care about objective reality when it is demonstrated to them. They simply want to retain a thin veil of internal plausible deniability when they are called out for what they are—worthless shit-for-brains bigots.
So go fuck yourself. To death, preferably.
😉
I would say there are at least fourteen of them.
“I really think most black people […] don’t care about this.”
I encourage you to ask around and find out.
Even stories of black victims […] all turn out to be hoaxes.
Home-schooled, I’ll assume, unless it went to a segregation academy.
I really think most black people (i.e., those who aren’t in the race business which is 99.9%) don’t care about this.
If you ever visit one of our coasts, we’ll be happy to introduce you to a black person so you can ask for yourself.
noen said,
Excuse me?
I know a lot of blacks at work. They said they didn’t get the cartoon, but didn’t seem particularly offended by it.
Only blacks in the race business (Jackson, Sharpton) and white liberals who feel really guilty for some reason are upset over this non-issue.
It’s classic troll bait that’s been dragged and debunked to death.
The Troofus Signal = Jena Six
M.Bouffant: P. S., you stupid loathsome ignorant morons (Jammie Fool’s “scathing humor”) chimpanzees are apes, like us, NOT MONKEYS!!!
Dude, let’s not get distracted from the main point by technical ephemera. You’re right – but “monkeys” is also frequently used, in a colloquial sense, as a synonym for “primates”, including apes as well as old world and new world monkeys.
.
I know a lot of blacks at work.
How large is your plantation?
They probably aren’t interested in setting you off into another screed about god-knows-what-other right wing bogeyman issue.
I know people like you at work, too, and generally people do not tell them what they really think because they want you to shut the hell up.
The comments from the bigot-cowards on this thread should tell you all you need to know about the intent of the cartoon.
Shorter (if that’s possible) Neil: The mean liberals say they’re for free speech but then they won’t let me and my friends call all the colored people a bunch of sub-human monkee things who should be hung from trees or dragged to their deaths behind our pickemup trucks and it’s no fair!!!one1!
I’m an independent. I voted for Perot in 1992, Clinton in 1996, Gore in 2000, Bush in 2004, and Obama in 2008. I’m not particularly “right wing” on most issues. But I am for an independent pres.
For the Senate, I voted for Robb in 1994, and Allen in 2000 and 2006.
I’m very bi-partisan and fair minded.
I’m a white liberal, and I feel guilty, but that comes with that whole “having a conscience” thing.
Labels don’t matter, dude. I’ve seen your type before. People are more interested in getting you to shut up, trust me. Believe it or not your political insights aren’t really that good, nor does anyone really care about them.
“Labels don’t matter, dude. I’ve seen your type before. People are more interested in getting you to shut up, trust me. Believe it or not your political insights aren’t really that good, nor does anyone really care about them.”
And we read more than you. Don’t even try to argue.
via TBogg, we see that Cornholio Wankee is all over it as well.
And The NYT offers a bit o’ background on the cartoonist.
I’m sorry, I can’t take anyone who unashamedly uses phrases like “PC lynch mob” seriously, I don’t care who you voted for. Couch your rhetoric in something less ball-slappingly stupid, and then maybe we can talk.
I mean, seriously. You got a point, make a point, don’t try to wave off the whole discussion into the netherrealm with 20 year old talking points. Sheesh.
He voted for Macaca Allen in 2006. What a surprise he is here apologizing for a racist cartoon.
The mean liberals say they’re for free speech but then they won’t let me and my friends call all the colored people a bunch of sub-human monkee things who should be hung from trees or dragged to their deaths behind our pickemup trucks and it’s no fair!!!one1!
There’s nothing wrong with calling someone a Monkee.
Wait. Is that before or after they started writing their own songs?
I’m pretty sick of us coastals being dismissed so easily, almost as if the population numbers along both coasts was negligible.
I’m with NY Guy, Neil, come visit me in California and I’ll introduce you to my AfAm friends, and I mean people I have spent a lot of time with away from work, have had over to dinner, have had stay at my house.
Oh, and I’m white, a lifelong Republican until they lost their frickin’ minds.
See, it would have been more funny if he had drawn the dead ape and labeled it BLART! and then the cops could have been all like Hammer- Don’t Hurt ’em!
Does anyone in Mass remember when this happened? There were whiny idiots complaining about PC oppression then, too, IIRC.
Neil says:For the Senate, I voted for Robb in 1994, and Allen in 2000 and 2006.
I’m very bi-partisan and fair minded.”
Teh mind, it boggles.
I voted for Obama this year.
Man, you guys don’t give any breaks do you? One false move and your TEH RACIST!
Well, last year. Whatever.
I’m very bi-partisan and fair minded..
No, you’re a wishy-washy punk w/o values or standards.
Neil, they’re not telling you to fuck off because they hate whitey. They’re telling you to fuck off because you’re you. HTH.
That article is great:
Classy guy:
Mr. Delonas has drawn ire from a number of groups for past cartoons in The Post. In 2006, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation denounced a cartoon of his that showed a man carrying a sheep wearing a bridal veil to a “New Jersey Marriage Licenses” window, a reference to the State Supreme Court’s ruling that year requiring the state to grant same-sex couples the same legal rights and benefits as heterosexual couples through civil unions.
And oh so witty. Such original visual punning – cause a sheep is just like… oh forget it.This guy isn’t even worth ridiculing.
.
Also noted that Jammie boy had the same delicious meat slab on his sidebar.
Dammit, I know I put blockquotes around that middle paragraph. Fucking WordPress.
.
One false move and your TEH RACIST!
No one’s called you a racist, you enormous whiner. I, personally, have just said you’re using an incredibly bullshit argument and your voting record doesn’t change that. I doubt the explination will change your tune, though.
More from the article:
“It would be very important for The New York Post to explain what the cartoon was intended to portray,” Mr. Paterson said in response to a question about whether the cartoon’s depiction of a monkey was racist, as Mr. Sharpton has suggested.
Yes. Please explain it. Difficulty: You may not use Moebius loops in your description.
Col Allen: [answering phone] Yes?
NYPost City Desk Manager: [exasperated] The phones are ringing off the hook. It’s about that chimp cartoon.
CA: [giggles] I love that. Violently killing Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi for tearing the collective face off the American people via a metaphor with a tragic event currently at the forefront of the American psyche. So they’re calling to praise us?
NCDM: Everyone thinks you’re calling Obama a monkey.
CA: [after a pregnant pause] Ah Fuck… Can we just PhotoShop some typewriters and little monkey friends for the dead one? And they’re all like typing up Stimulus Bill type stuff with allusions to Shakesp–
NCDM: Yeah… That’s not gonna work this time.
No, we don’t give any breaks.
I just had a similar argument with an idiot woman who is incapable of seeing her own racism in her comments about the people she worked with, because her black co-workers never told her how obnoxiously racist her attitudes are.
See, it would have been funny if he had drawn the dead ape and labeled it Modern Republican Party and the cops with the smoking gun could have been all like Well it was a useless waste of skin anyway.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
Well it tells me all I need to know about the effect of the cartoon, and that’s what the paper needs to address. Results trump intentions.
On the other hand, maybe this isn’t a time where the maxim holds that one should, “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
And oh so witty. Such original visual punning – cause a sheep is just like… oh forget it.This guy isn’t even worth ridiculing.
But he is, because Rupert Murdoch’s media empire has been very effective in advancing the cause of Rupert Murdoch’s bank account.
And I would argue, making the general public stupider in the process…James Fallows doesn’t go that far.
The rest of us haven’t made out quite so well.
The yearly GDP is $13T. The stimulus is $850B or so. That’s, uh, not quite a hundred, assuming my calculator’s not on the fritz or nothin’.
..I own you people body and soul for the next several generations…
Hint – emigrate (take your gametes with you).
Hi, I’m also known as the new massive Obama spending bill. I own you people body and soul for the next several generations. Nighty night!
*Sniff* How soon they forget you. And I was doing something noble, like killing brown people, not actually helping Americans. Only Marxofacists are interested in that! WHAAAAH!!!!
I see the far-left is just as intolerant as the far-right. Whatever.
Bye!
[teh Gav says an update is about to be posted, FYI]
Bye!
If only.
I change my mind. The cartoonist’s a prick, and doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Try this approach.
I see the far-left is just as intolerant as the far-right. Whatever.
Bye!
I see you’re as simple-minded as anyone else who says stuff like “PC lynch mob”. And, of course, you never even bothered to actually defend your point which was, I guess, don’t criticize dumbass racist cartoons. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Crybaby.
Thanks, Matt. Well put.
It’s a bit weird to see a concern troll this long out of season, though, isn’t it?
I still remember when Rupert Murdoch bought the post in blatant violation of FCC regulations (a few years later, those regulations were jettisoned to suit him.)
It was a money-loser then an it’s never turned a profit yet. When it’s time to count circulation, aggressive street teams force free copies on New Yorkers on the streets and in the subways.
It’s just another subsidized megaphone for the right wing.
On the other hand, maybe this isn’t a time where the maxim holds that one should, “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
Ever hear a dog whistle, mentis?
Never forget, malice can be stupid.
See also, Washington Times; Moon, Rev; National Post; Asper, Izzy;
Free market worshippers have been running money losing propaganda businesses for quite some time.
That footnote take down is pretty much one of the most amazing things I have ever seen on the internet. It makes sarcasm an art form.
Andrew S. Gill,
Thanks for posting that video. Good advice for all.
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said,
I have trouble hearing the fucking dinner gong.
(Point taken.)
Jeebus, there sure are a lot of trolls coming out of the woodwork!! Who’s got the can of TrollBeGone?
Check out the google results for “jammie wearing fool”. Notice anything
oddentirely appropriate right under the blog title?so I see that Neil is attacking our First Amendment rights to criticize a fucking racist piece of shit cartoon?
Andrew S. Gill
…is my great great granduncle, I think. There were also Andrew B. Gill and Andrew C. Gill.
A Racist embraces their ignorance and seeks ways to reinforce their fear.
And without doubt EVERY culture has its racists.
I’m always amazed at the extents white people will go to deny something’s racist. My personal “favorite” was the spate of nooses as sudden fashion accessory especially the ones that were directly referring to black people like the Golf magazine article on Tiger Woods or the one black professor. And yet, white people out of the woodwork claiming that the perpetrators could not possibly have had any idea that it was racist or that it had any history. It’s obscene and it’s insulting and far more pathetic that so many of those white people thought it was crucial that they not only point out how they never could see it (with the insinuation that because a single white person didn’t see it that somehow the objections of the targeted minority must be super crazy psycho speak) but that anyone who did so were evil PC people or money-making minorities, because after our particular history in this country of banal evil, we so trust that this particular generation of white people have somehow got it perfect.
In short. Yes, this is racist. In fact, the paper was so worried that this blatant revenge fantasy would be just so durn subtle that they decided to run a half page picture of Obama with article relating to the stimulus bills on the page right before this one. Furthermore, this cartoon requires such an obtuse explanation just to make it justifiable as not racist that I doubt he even had it prepared as his main excuse (in fact his excuse was to instead rant about PC culture so there you go). Combine the fact that the New York police department has made a sport of shooting unarmed black men, etc…
The only way it could have been more obvious is if it consisted only of the n-word repeated over and over again.
Haw.
Screenshot.
That google page is totally awesome. Proof once again that the internetz have a liberal bias.
I think Neil actually provided a very valuable service. That is demonstrating that a racist’s idea of the 1st amendment is very specific. That is, to silence any opposition or complaint to your oppressing group’s bigotry. That is the bigot of course can speak, but you can’t boo him loudly, rant angrily against him or deny him your home and safe spaces to let him rant. It is against free speech to use free speech to respond or to even complain that racists like this get constant exposure but we’ve got what? Less than 10 syndicated minority political cartoonists, if that? And few of them allowed to address racial issues with more than a superficial take. But somehow it’s against free speech to mention that or to protest the racists who do get this platform.
And we’re expected to believe they give a fuck about free speech? Or even their personal bugaboo of PC? Yeah, and Gavin will follow up this post.
I’m surprised none of the persecuted white males have brought up Imus.
Sir, nobody cares how tall you are or whether or not you’re circumcised.
Complaints from the usual quarters..Al Sharpton, some simpleton lefties, PETA..what else is new?
Wait until Baracky’s poll numbers are near single-digit..then you can complain about imaginary slights.
Until then, we’ve a lot of catching up to do. Nearly eight years of BDS, to come right back at you.
In spades.
I’ve got 6:20 in the pool for when Neil comes back to say “and another thing!”
In spades.
Racist or not racist?
In spades.
Haw haw!
In spades.
Oh, clever. Luckily, most folks suffering from ODS (Obama Derrangement Syndrome) aren’t having to make too big a leap from their normal ways of thinking, huh?
“Until then, we’ve a lot of catching up to do. Nearly eight years of BDS, to come right back at you.”
Awww, someone needs a wide in the whaaaambulance.
Ryan,
Either way, I guarantee you he’d spend half the night bitching about his First Amendment rights being trampled if you said it was, you darn liberal you.
I love all this, “Gee golly shucks, guys, I didn’t know that was racist” bullshit: “Saying ‘chink in the armor’ isn’t racist.”
Yes, the next time you happen to find yourself conversing with one of your African-American coworkers at work, please say, “Man, I was really hoping for a better raise this year. Management is way too niggardly, though.”
I.e., the essence of Holder’s “nation of cowards.”
Well, we’re at 16 years of CDS and counting so I guess we have some catching up to do.
Or indeed Carter Derangement Syndrome…
Man, oh man! Has Gavin’s lines ever snared some toothless trollranhas. Lessee, we have Ole Perfessor welfare tit sucker JWF, a completely new concern troll Neil, and Troofus McCornfedwankee not using his oodles of sockpuppets! Great stuff, chumpstains! Keep it up!
Also, scoreboard. And…why are you racist? Because shut up, that’s why. But more importantly, you’re racist because you fucking are, dumbasses.
That Googlefight thing is pretty good, much better than Alexa. Look what I made!
rd1=roy+edroso+funny&word2=adolf+hitler+funny
Damn, Digby is on fire:
You know, I’m sure JWF would agree that I’d be the last netizen in the blogosphere to take his side on anything, but I think he’s got a fair point. I mean, black helicopter-style conspiracies about press pool passes aside, I think this really is just a silly cartoon.
But, hey, I love a good flame war as much as anyone, so carry on.
With Carter, you just need a straitjacket.
Don’t worry so much about Bill. Hillary’s got his nuts pocketed.
Oh, did you hear, Monica turned what, 29 the other day? Seems like only yesterday she was crawling around the White House putting everything in her mouth..
I don’t like icky girls with their icky oral secks!
The fact is, liberals are stupid. They have no grasp of reality, politics, economics or common sense, every arguement they make is biased and has no facts or truth, you can tell a liberal is a terrorist ally by the way they support not torturing, like the stupid idea ever and not gonna help win elections
I think this really is just a silly cartoon.
Oh, man. I wish I could think it was just a silly cartoon. As it is, I think it’s a boring, confusing cartoon.
You know, I’m sure JWF would agree that I’d be the last netizen in the blogosphere to take his side on anything, but I think he’s got a fair point. I mean, black helicopter-style conspiracies about press pool passes aside, I think this really is just a silly cartoon.
I honestly don’t understand this argument. Because it’s a “silly cartoon” means that any criticisms towards it being friggin’ racist douchery somehow illegitimate? I mean, yeah, there are more important things in the world, but no one of any real pull has called for the cartoonist’s testicles or even his job; people are just pointing out that, yes, it’s a lunkheaded racist cartoon. Should we only do that when people are actually lynched or crosses are actually burned, and this one-thousandath cut should just be ignored?
This is the “hey, just a joke, folks” defense, and it’s gutless bullshit. A racist joke is still racist. I really wish someone would explain why I should take it as anything but chickenshit handwaving.
What Matt T said.
Thanks, Mr Gill. The video described exactly what happened, but the woman tried to make it about how SHE wasn’t a racist because SHE worked in the innercity as a teacher and everyone in the school was black except her, and they didn’t have a problem with her, nosirreebob. She claimed that all the black people she knew were only voting for Obama because he was black and they couldn’t tell you anything else about him. I pointed out that that was a racist thing to say, as well as a canard. Quack.
If I got her mad enough to stew about what she said before she flounced out of the forum, she may figure out what I was saying.
The fact is, why can only white people be racist according to the PC crowd? What about black racism and crime on whites, the “whitey” and “honkey”? There is proof that most racist attacks by white are lies (see Tawanda Brawley) , and most attacks on whites are by blacks (see most rapes), and blacks are subhuman and not smart enough to take care of themselves (see New Orleans, P. Rushton). Stop trying to defend the indefendable, liberals.
The fact is, we need a white history month.
The fact is, this country was founded by white Chistians, and on biblical principals, don’t argue with me I read more than you and I can prove this very easily. Liberal lies to the contrary are just lies.
The fact is, we need a white history month.
We have 12 of ’em, but most of you thick-headed honkies don’t pay learn anything from them anyway.
So, butterknife, your contention is that being angry at George Bush for the thousands of dead, the billions and billions of dollars wasted, and the shredding of the Constitution are equivalent to your anger at President Obama for his skin color?
Not too sharp are ya, butterknife?
serr8d
The only “genre” I can think of that is broad enough to encompass those four examples is “sound”
You know, I don’t hate Baracky, not the way you lefty ‘tards hated George Bush. I do think he’s a dirty Chicagoland politico-mobster with a strong bent to socialism and a firm grasp of the Alinsky narrative. And he has a lard-assed wife.
The best thing about BHO? Is that he’s black. I was proud of my country for electing that man, but not because of his color.
Who knows? Maybe next time we can elect a good black man in spite of his color.
Sure thing butters
Also, if you can point out where white folk were regularly compared to our simian cousins as a means of showing how not-like-us they are, much like black folk have been for a couple hundred years, then you might have a point.
Well, it has been done but only to help one group of white people justify inhumane treatment of another group of white people. Punch Magazine even had a recurring character named Mr. G. O’rilla. More here.
And check out the first comment on Jammie Wearing Fool’s post.
Dan Collins, you comically ignorant fucking moron. Could you possibly be any fucking stupider? I wonder if your ancestors were defending the rights of the English to caricature them as lower life forms.
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Ok, as a mixed race black dude I may have some skin in this game. I am sick of every goddamned time some racist fuck does something that the 50’s would call suspect, I never cease to be amazed when some jackass invariably shows up to lament, “P.C. lynching, P.C. Thugs, or P.C. censorship, You are the racists, oh my!!!” I am not the first to say this but you all know it is short for, “Why can’t I walk down the street screaming Nigger anymore?” Another thing, quit with that tired old Channon Christian thing. We know, we know, all black men want to kill you and rape your women. When you and yours have been called monkeys your whole lives and strung up for looking at a woman wrong, let’s then debate the merits of what I may find hurtful. Until then, shut the fuck up and enjoy the next eight years. Maybe you will learn something illuminating. Btw, I live in Wisconsin and not the “evul” coasts, blartbags.
Matt T.
Well, its only racist if you interpret the use of the chimp represent a black president who is depicted being been shot dead by police. That’s just too over-the-top to be plausible, and a bit of a stretch just looking at it.
To me, the use of the chimp was done in the same way the careerbuilder.com ads used them, that is, to represent general boneheadedness (and I don’t remember a lot of racial strife over those commercials).
Hey, Dan D, I love this one.
The only “genre” I can think of that is broad enough to encompass those four examples is “sound”
I don’t know about that; if there isn’t already a genre called “lily-white” there should be.
You know, if I pretend that no black person has ever been called a monkey, then that cartoon … still sucks.
Baracky
I thought the proper disparaging cutesy name for the president was “Obabmbi”. Is that supposed to be a reference to “tobacky” was in “whacky tobacky” or just that “add a ‘y’ to every name and it’ll totally piss off everyone and you’ll win” thing douchebags do like fish gotta swim?
I have problems with women and am not shy about expressing them on the internet!
lawndartinnabrain says..
Heh. Dan Collins has more intelligence in his pinky finger than you have in your entire gene pool. Sign up for his class if you think you’ve the chops.
Shorter serr8d: got any jizz left to spray on me, boys?
Obambi. The One. (That One.) The Messiah. HUSSEIN.
Mmm. Dan Collins! Dreamy!
Mmm. Dan Collins! Dreamy!
I prefer his brother Tom. On the rocks.
Gee, they’re on to me. Only off by nine inches.
He’s nine inches shorter!
I knew it.
This jammie wearin’ fool could very well be tall, muscular and movie-star handsome, as so many on the internet are. There could also be hundreds of people in Burkina Faso trying to smuggle out millions of dollars through your bank account. However, he writes like a shorter, fatter, uglier man.
Fucking metapoetics?
ChenZen,
I wasn’t arguing whether the cartoon was racist or not. It obviously is, and frankly, it being over-the-top isn’t a good defense, as racists aren’t exactly known for their subtlety. At the very, very best, it shows a stunning lack of awareness and sensitivity from a guy who’s apparently a bit of a jackass.
I’ll say it again: a racist joke is still racist, and no amount of “well, it’s just a joke” makes it any less so. To try to do otherwise is, in my opinion, chickenshit handwaving. And, concerning your commercials, when there’s been a long history of describing all executives and middle-management as “subhuman” by refering to apes, then your example won’t be quite a friggin’ boneheaded, speaking of boneheadedness.
Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ, you do realize that for a long, long time and to this day, white racists call black people “apes”, suggesting that the aforementioned black folks aren’t fucking human? Right? You know this, right? I mean, maybe the asshole in question really didn’t mean it as racist, but for fuck’s sake, quit trying to pretend this is all just coming out of the sky.
Of course, I’ll take whatever’s left over.
I’ll suckanfuck to put Amanda Marcotte to shame!
Have I mentioned that I have a problem with women? I hates them!
Fucking metapoetics?
Sounds pretty
elitistfaggytedious to me.The only “genre” I can think of that is broad enough to encompass those four examples is “sound”
or “Used”
Of course, faggy and elitist are right up my gully..
“It was the loveliest party that I’ve ever attended
If anything was broken I’m sure it could be mended
My head can’t tolerate this bobbing and pretending
Listen to some bullet-head and the madness that he’s saying”
Jammy wearing fool is 4’9″ . Wow.
Makes me think of the post below “shorter pantload”
My head can’t tolerate this bobbing and pretending
I’ve been thinking of this song a lot lately, for some reason.
I’m a gay man. You’re a faggot.
I’m not clicking on that link. Is it a class on how to deal with ex girlfriends in a way that will ensure that no sane woman who knows how to use the Google will ever have anything to do with me as long as I live? No thanks.
If you missed that episode, Collins makes one of the most embarrassing appearances in a comments section in the history of comments sections at that Tbogg link but it’s really long. If you want a shorter version of the same idiocy check this out.
And that’s Doctor Elitist to you.
I’m a gay man. You’re a faggot.
Purest win.
Robert, I couldn’t help but notice your interest in Sully.
It’s his milky loads you like, right?
I’m not clicking on that link. Is it a class on how to deal with ex girlfriends…
LGL – I remember that thread well, and it was quite the ‘sode.
And the “last” I put down there as the last comment – under my old nym – still stands!
And I can self-prescribe Prezista.
PHHHHZZZZZ!!!!111!!111!
Lesley said,
That would make it an innie.
You know, at first I thought the cartoon was a ham-fisted piece of shit, thoroughly racist in effect, but not consciously racist in intent.
Seeing its defenders in action has persuaded me I was dead wrong. No snark.
“Sign up for his class if you think you’ve the chops.”
Are you shitting me?
Jesus fuck. What sort of candy-assed, postmodern, liberal academe bullshit is this? The day I need Dan “Stalker” Collins to tell me what Samuel Fucking Coleridge Really Meant is the day I need to be shot in the fucking head.
Real writers (by which I mean those of us who are paid to write) laugh at the pretensions of people like Captain Klonopin and his boy Danny.
Nothing says class like AIDS jokes.
I have many deep-seated issues. Let me show you them.
also, nothing says”I’m a self-loathing gay man” like AIDS jokes.
And Prezista? Is that brand name on the tip of any straight guy’s tongue? (NPI!)
Late to the party… but this:
Think Michael Madsen and you probably have a better depiction of me.
I think this is pretty clear evidence that Jammie masturbates to pictures of Michael Madsen. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, etc., etc. But Michael Madsen is a bit gross…
Is that brand name on the tip of any straight guy’s tongue?
I had no idea that’s what it was until you said it. I just assumed it was some lube product or popper being thrown about for effect… by a self-loathing gay man.
You know the troll just got hard as a rock when you wrote “straight guy’s tongue.”
English literacy is for fags, except for when dykes get angry.
What wonderful things you learn from our friends in the sinking ship.
So you’re saying serr8d is really GayPatriotWest? Jeff Gannon? Grover Norquist?
“English literacy is for fags, except for when dykes get angry.”
Where do bisexuals fit into the homo/lit axis?
I like to think that the ever-dwindling number of Republican stalwarts are essentially a special kind of men-seeking-men. Ruben Bolling, of course, came to this conclusion a long time ago.
GayPatriotWest? Jeff Gannon? Grover Norquist?
Stop it, you’ll make it hot
Français.
Where do bisexuals fit into the homo/lit axis?
Wherever they want — that’s the beauty part!
What hath Gav wrought?
I am disappointed to find that there is no singular form of feces, it being a plurale tantum. I had hoped to riff on “dipshit”, you see.
These new dungdredgers, pooplungers, doodydunkers, crapcrammmers, immerso-ickies, floaterfryers (floaterfriars?), bowlbabies, turdtarts, and logrollers are clogging up the Sadly,No! pipes.
Please don’t feed the trolls.
Where do bisexuals fit into the homo/lit axis?
anywhere they can, baby!
Matt T.
I’m not sure how you’re reconciling your assertion that the toon is “obviously racist” with your admission that not all uses of apes in parody are intended as a racial epithets.
But anyway, according to the link you provided, the artist (like many political cartoonists) has a habit of clearly labeling the targets of their jabs (“Sharpton”, “McGreevey”, etc.). Had the primate had a “Obama” tag on his chest, well, then yea, I’d definitely see that as racist. But there wasn’t. The toon was to be interpreted as referring to a stimulus bill that could be seen as written by an out-of-control ape (like the careerbuilder.com ads). In fact, given the way it was written, the lack of label and the apparent ignorance to the hypersensitivity of certain corners of the audience, I’d say that it could have only been penned by someone who was explicitly not racist.
Just the way I see it, I guess.
How many times have we seen the “please don’t feed the trolls” while we go on and feed them.
Please. It’s an automatic message just like rich “people need more tax cuts” is for Republicans.
The problem I see with this argument is that (a) the guy is a giant asshole who obsesses over blacks being uppity and (b) there isn’t a prevailing stereotype of either elderly San Francisco women or homosexuals as chimpanzees, so there’s a huge implied level to the toon that explicitly invites the reader to laugh at Obama’s uppity primacy.
And seriously, if you look at his prior cartoons, while he was big on labeling, he was also big on constant stereotyping.
Finally, there’s so much intrinsic comedy in both the police gunning down a chimp and the stimulus as the right sees it. Why on Earth did it have to be the chimp writing the stimulus bill? That and the author’s eagerness to jump out and proclaim that Sharpton is a big phony it really happened blar-har suggests that he’s only playing innocent because he knows – and knew from the beginning – that he could get away with it.
Well, its only racist if you interpret
NO.
IT IS RACIST REGARDLESS OF THE INTENTION OF THE AUTHOR.
This is very important. If I write a story about a guy who likes haggis and fucks sheep, that’s a racist story. It doesn’t matter whether or not I include the line “Hurr hurr! Guess what country he’s from!” or if the story was inspired by my cousin and I’ve never been to Scotland.
It’s a racist story.
If I grew up hating Scots and knowing all of the stereotypes and had written similar stories in the past, but this time, it completely slipped my mind, then guess what? In that case, I didn’t intentionally write a racist story.
But it’s still a racist story.
Oh, stewardess — I speak troll!
If I write a story about a guy who likes haggis and fucks sheep…
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I kind of have to object to that in re. editorial cartooning, though: the entire business is emphasizing the shittiness of other people through physical ugliness, and most forms of physical ugliness used in shorthand are deeply wrapped-up in stereotypes. The visual cues for ‘liar’ or ‘filthy Jew’ are basically identical; so are ‘idiot’ and ‘uppity colored’. The context creates, destroys, and muddies something’s power as racist or offensive.
I’m not sure how you’re reconciling your assertion that the toon is “obviously racist” with your admission that not all uses of apes in parody are intended as a racial epithets.
I swear, you’re either trying really hard or you must have trouble tying your shoelaces without drooling all over them first. One more time and I’d done with you. Not all uses of apes in parody are racist. However, as often as not, white racists have compared black people to apes and monkeys to imply they’re not actually human like white people are. Do you friggin’ get it now? Color me surprised if you don’t.
Just the way I see it, I guess.
Well, that’s lovely. Stupid, but lovely, and you’ve absolutely failed to convince me that, as I said, if it was explicitly racist – which is just how I see it, I guess – then it was incredibly lunkheaded and lazy. All the handwaving you’re doing won’t change that. Check out the link on a white pride site at Pandagon, they certainly got it.
In fact, given the way it was written, the lack of label and the apparent ignorance to the hypersensitivity of certain corners of the audience, I’d say that it could have only been penned by someone who was explicitly not racist.
Well, then he failed fucking miserably, then, didn’t he? The Post’s people say they’re switchboard’s been lit up all day, the white power douches are down with it, and hordes of chickenshit stooges are doing the normal cowardly wave. Christ, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen written about this yet, and I’m including the homophobic little turd above.
“Hypersensitivity”. Fuck, why not just complain about the “PC lynch mob” while you’re at it, jackass.
The context creates, destroys, and muddies something’s power as racist or offensive.
or amplifies it, as in this case.
My primary question for whether an editorial cartoon is racist or sexist or classist or whateverist, in the lack of any other evidence (the guy’s earlier work corroborates this readily, but otherwise it might not) is basically comparing their portrayals of people along specific lines; comparison of those lines allows you to determine whether cues are used to illustrate personality or just as a function of who the target is. Ideally, people look more alike when they’re in the news for similar things; if they look alike because of who they are, it’s basically racist whether or not the intent is innocent.
if they look alike because of who they are, it’s basically racist whether or not the intent is innocent.
Is your intent innocent?
b/c you just basically said Obama looks like a chimpanzee.
My primary question for whether an editorial cartoon is racist or sexist or classist or whateverist, in the lack of any other evidence
The style of the people leaping to his defense is plenty of evidence that his defenders see it as racist.
The cartoon itself is bigoted, but the New York Post may be racist.
As many have already noted, without the bigoted insult, the cartoon makes no sense. As well as being unfunny and without context. Why the tragedy of a 200 pound chimp going berserk and nearly killing a woman and eating parts of her while she’s alive leading to volleys of gunfire should be the subject of a comic is a question that deserves an answer.
Does this kerfuffle mean that we’ll soon be treated to Chris Muir drawing chimps with scoliosis?
I meant that if you’re equally likely to portray Obama and, say, Clarence Thomas as filthy apes or Fred Flintstone or who-the-fuck-ever, that’s racist. Simple.
But this isn’t really a case of ‘ambiguous’. It directly invites you to compare a powerful black man to a chimpanzee. You know, satirically.
alec, I actually agreed with you up until this point:
The visual cues for ‘liar’ or ‘filthy Jew’ are basically identical; so are ‘idiot’ and ‘uppity colored’.
The point that I thought you were going for is that we need to expose and confront these stereotypes and making them seem as silly and stupid and blatant as possible is very helpful and cathartic.
But you claim that the symbology can be confusing. In the cases of the symbol sets you use, they’re actually not. I’m not sure if this is a deliberate decision on the part of editorial cartoonists, but they’re very different now.
Liar is typically crossed fingers or Pinocchio nose (cylindrical and perpendicular to the face–easily distinguishable from the Jewish nose), as well as flaming pants.
I”m not sure what stereotypes exemplify the stupid, but Rob Rogers does a good job drawing stupid people, and I don’t see any uppity colored stereotypes there.
Next up, the cancer-stricken baby stuck in the well gets a banana cream pie in the face from TIDOS Yankee. Hilarity ensues.
Reminds me of Rush Limbaugh comparing Chelsea Clinton to a dog and then trying to weasel out of it. I mean, if you’re going to be a shithead, don’t fucking vacillate about it. That just makes you look pathetic and vile.
I don’t know; while inevitably tragic on further examination, there’s always something conceptually funny about zoo escapes. And we have a truly fucked-up attitude towards chimps to begin with – the booming chimp comedy mini-industries of the 50s and 90s quietly threw out any chimp older than nine months or so (after which they stop being easy to manipulate or control, or for that matter what people consider ‘cute’, and start being typical surly captive animals). I read a really good article on this, but I’m afraid I forget where.
I guess you could say the concept is funny and the event was tragic. And again, there’s just so much else that could have been done with the concept – the taste question doesn’t even factor in. Unless you’re trying to air a racist canard with plausible deniability, why the fuck waste a cartoon about the police shooting a chimpanzee that way?
AAG: The main problem I think we have is that I’m not discussing good cartoonists – I’m talking about hacks. If a good cartoonist is being a bigot there oughtn’t be a question in the world about it; hacks face a Herculean struggle just getting people to recognize the principal targets.
And I meant ‘liar’ and ‘stupid’ more in the habitual sense – respectively the standard quick-and-dirty depictions of Nixon and Bush. A lot of stereotypes basically revolve around making all people a specific kind of ugly regardless of whether or not they personally are; the same goes for hack cartooning.
Y’know, in that Chimpanzee story, a woman’s in critical condition, and her friend, the chimp’s owner was a 70 year old widow (who’d lost her daughter in a car crash a few years ago), and who said this when she was forced to repeatedly stab her pet with a butcher knife to try and protect her friend:
Comedy gold, that. Even if the cartoonist Sean Delonas were proved to be 150% non-racist, I think one might still say Delonas is a giant dripping pus-filled venereal sore on the ass of humanity for exploiting this story for cheap yuks.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct–chimpanzeeattack0218feb18,0,224327.story
Because both wordpress and my ISP hate me, here’s a fine example of racism generally having little to nothing to do with any concievable characteristic of the target group (swap in ‘rotten’ where appropriate and remove brackets, else WP has a hissy):
http://www.[spoilt].com/library/imagery/propaganda/racist-propaganda/
Yeah, hahahahaha! A spoof, a parody about a tragedy of a woman having her face ripped off! Those Republicans really know what’s funny!
Heeheehee, a monkey riddled with bullets in a spreading puddle of blood! Comedy gold!
Hey you cunts,
Careful. As morally superior as you might believe you are, you might just find you are, if not racist, some other kind of -ist.
I’m 5′ 3″ and don’t appreciate the stereotyping.
Kindly fuck off,
Thank you.
BTW, I saw the beginning of O’Reilly when I was at the gym — he was saying that “secular progressives” had created an “irresponsible” environment that led to things like Nadya Suleman and the chimp attack. I almost fell off the elliptical machine in disbelief.
As morally superior as you might believe you are, you might just find you are, if not racist, some other kind of -ist.
Huh. Does sexist count as an -ist?
I’m 5? 3? and don’t appreciate the stereotyping.
Hey, you condescending motherfucker. I’m 5′-2″ and I don’t appreciate your fucking superior attitude. Asshat.
Nina Hartley’s Ass over at Fark has a very insightful take (as usual):
The problem is the cartoon isn’t funny or clever. People see it, assume the punch line isn’t “a chimp wrote the stim” because that’s just stupid and start wondering what the point is.
Well, to be fair to O’Reilly, the chimp had been reading Dawkins lately. (He felt Bill-o’s own “books” were trite and predictable.)
The fuck’s being 5’3″ got to do with anything? Seriously. And did I miss something, or were there large-scale opressions of shorter-than-average-but-still-more-or-less-average people and I just missed it? I’m 5’6″, so kiss my ass. At least you’re recognizably short; I have to spend my life learning after the fact that I can’t quite reach over the hot stove like I thought I could.
And when I find myself saying something racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-semetic/intolerent/or otherwise douchebaggery, I don’t go screaming about the plight of the red-headed, homely bass player in America, weep weep, or start pointing fingers in hopes no one pays much attention to the hand said fingers are connected to. No, I say, “Goodness, Matt (’cause that’s my name), so-and-so thinks yer a jackass because of something you said and you certainly don’t want to be that. Perhaps you should examine what you said, from where in you it came from, and just why it was taken that way. Perhaps you’re wrong, Matt, perhaps you owe someone an apology.”
Now, I’m not claiming moral superiority with such a tactic, but I do find it helps me sleep easier at night and more enjoy the reflection I see in the mirror each morning.
You wee motherfuckers had better back the fuck down. I run into doorframes and light fixtures all the Goddamn time because the world likes you better, and no candy-making trade union on God’s green earth would have me.
Just watched Frontline’s Inside the Meltdown. Sadly, it barely scrapes the surface of the corruption in finance and spends way too much time reflecting on the personal agonies Paulson allegedly experienced having to compromise his free market principles. OH SPARE US, PUHLEASE. There’s also no coverage of Greenspan’s role nor is there any insight into why the SEC turned a blind eye. The show gives the impression the treasury dept and the US Fed didn’t have a clue about subprime and toxic assets until Wall Street firms started going broke.
Now do you assholes see why constantly calling the Bushies idiots was a bad idea? DUH HURR, WE’RE JUST SIMPLE SUPPLY-SIDE DOCTRINAIRES WHO DON’T KNOW ANYTHING
That said, there are some decent interviews on the web site that aren’t in the show.
Matt, he was just being indignant about everyone assuming that Jammie Soiling Fool was a shrimp ’cause Gavin guesstimated Foo’ was 5′ 6″ & Foo’ indicated he was nine inches off.
If you haven’t checked the Gawker link to some of Mr. DeLame-ass’s work, you should. The guy is a total hack, not funny in any way shape or form. Not clever or anything else. Note the sock on the lampshade motif, & the fact that gay men all have trick legs.
Speaking of Greenspan
One of those once in a blue moon events, he says. Shit happens. Nothing to get alarmed about. Nationalize the banks until they can get back to doing what they do best: unbridled greed for maximum profit until next fan is hit by shit. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Oooh! Oooh! I just heard that Greenspan thing referred to on the radio, & whichever right-wing hack I was hearing said that Greenspan works for an entity that would benefit from this. Now I got no idea for whom Greenspan works, but I’ll just bet someone could find out. Maybe the reference desk at the library, if it’s open tomorrow. (Hard to tell w/ budget cuts.)
Krugman on Greenspan
[Didn’t the Army Corps of Engineers build the useless levees in New Orleans?]
Sure, liberals! Defer the politically correct crowd like you always do. When you’re being dragged away by the Obamaton NKVD PC police officers one of whom is wearing a t-shirt with a pink triange with Che Guevara in the middle, and the other a giant black man in all black with a beret with a turbin on top of the beret to be tortured in a mobile hybrid engine interrogation and re-education van. YOU’LL BE SORRY!!
Anthony: I won’t be sorry. I’ll be too busy rounding up everyone to the right of Stalin, & torturing them w/ clean energy from the hybrid.
I can’t tell the authentic trolls from the troll parodists anymore.
Late to this thread but I have to say it anyway………
So….. He’s only 4′ 9″?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Mr. J. W. Fool has not liked me ever since I pointed out that a comical photoshop he once approvingly posted wherein Rudy Giluliani threw Hillary Clinton in front of a subway train was kind of revolting and not very funny.
Good times…
Oh, now I see that JWF is “6’3″ and cut”.
They’re all 6’3″ and cut, aren’t they?
Including Ann Coulter?
Damn, I go away for a few hours and miss all the fun.
My contribution: to everyone who said that Pelosi was the one who wrote the stimulus bill, therefore the cartoonist wasn’t intending the dead chimp to connote Obama, it just the damn liberals and “race pimps” like Sharpton that are making the connection, then how do you explain this:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama%27s+stimulus&btnG=Search
Duh. Any media outlet that hasn’t written something where the words “Obama” and “Stimulus” were combined went out of business six months or more ago.
Careful. As morally superior as you might believe you are, you might just find you are, if not racist, some other kind of -ist.
Since you want to press that linguistic point, I get to push one too.
I AM a racist. I’m just not a bigot about it.
I can’t tell the authentic trolls from the troll parodists anymore.
I’d say we should lobby the Management, but we both know adding avatars would probably break the blog. Again.
[Back again, as above]
Gavin, you’re such a tease.
His penis is 9 inches shorter than 5’6. Bahahaha.
Lesley – It’s not our free market principles we need to sacrifice, it’s our free market Principals.
Alternately, his penis is 9 inches longer than 5?6. Either way, it’s entertainment.
mdh, oh sure, but i wasn’t speaking about we.
Jammies Media Fool
Avatar: Clint Eastwood pointing a gun.
Any bets his favourite band is Creed?
One of our running gags with a humorless Texan evangelical of our acquaintance was to (a) specifically mention his penis, with size, whenever it came up and (b) inflate the figure given each time.
Within a few days mentioning him in passing resulted in a brief but spirited discussion of his dick the size of the Eiffel Tower.
This may or may not be tangential, but everyone, but everyone, has racist shit in their heads. It’s a function of human beings that we take early information far too seriously and racism is, at its base, just a crude feature of humanity elevated to godhood by a vicious society.
You can’t change what lurks in your memory. What you can do is fight it, and fight to ensure you’re as close as possible to being the last generation to have that shit in there.
I mean, unless it’s about eyetees. Those fucking mustache-having papers-lacking spicy-meat-a-ball-eating mafiosi fucks. Jesus Christ protect this land from the guido.
Someone should explain to Jammies Boy that Scathing Humour doesn’t mean poo jokes,
So, Gavin, for the wingnut, the trick is never to go 100% racist. Just go 99 and leave 1% wiggle room. Thus they deny and even claim victimhood while we of the PC gestapo go batty and even argue trying to precisely identify and explain the missing percentage point.
There is a certain genius in that, I suppose. Turdblossom works nicely as a metaphor here.
Somebody wake me up next update. Thanks.
Hi, Jack Burton. Since no-one else has rolled out the welcome mat, I’ll give it a burl. Seems they’re all too busy either wrestling with trolls or having intellectual arguments, which I can’t do as I used up all my brain today and I’m temporarily as thick as two short planks.
Anyway, it’s nice to have a new voice here. Stick around.
I mean, unless it’s about eyetees. Those fucking mustache-having papers-lacking spicy-meat-a-ball-eating mafiosi fucks. Jesus Christ protect this land from the guido.
Of course, you really mean the Polacks, those kielbasa-eating, polka-playing, potato-vodka-drinking, hiney-lick-maneuver-performing, useless bags of skin whose native country has gone back and forth like a fucking chew toy between Germany, Austria and Russia so many times in the last two hundred years that it’s no wonder they can’t walk in a straight line without falling down with their pants around their knees. Amirite?
Don’t get me started on the Scotch-Irish with 1/8 Dutch, three generations removed.
JammieWearingFool has a new post up. His commenters are even stupider than he is.
I am disappointed to find that there is no singular form of feces,
I was taught to say “fex”. Or “fæx” if (heaven forbid) you’re going to be pedantic about it. However, Teh Great Gazoogle is not particularly encouraging about this.
whose native country has gone back and forth like a fucking chew toy between Germany, Austria and Russia so many times in the last two hundred years
Hell, half of the last millennium, they were part of Lithuania. If you can’t keep your nation independent against the feckin Lithuanians then let’s face it, you’re a lost cause.
If you can’t keep your nation independent against the feckin Lithuanians then let’s face it, you’re a lost cause.
Hell, you might as well throw the Ukraine in there too.
First Hal, now this guy. It’s like you’re trying to make this state look bad or something!
You see? Go to the
windowfootnotes. Go to thewindowfootnotes.So the fool’s, er, excuse me, Fool’s only 4’6″. Leave the little twerp alone. Being small is its own reward.
Mr. J. W. Fool has not liked me ever since I pointed out that a comical photoshop he once approvingly posted wherein Rudy Giluliani threw Hillary Clinton in front of a subway train was kind of revolting and not very funny.
What if she was wearing pants and he was wearing a dress?
If wingnut idiocy/propoganda continues its current trajectory, there will be tens of thousands of people who instinctively think the word “racist” is something that applies only to black people. If you refer to a white person as a racist, they’ll look at you with genuine confusion, as if you just called a man a waitress or a cat a teakettle.
Only off by nine inches.
Hm. So he only has a cap gun?
Next, better cartoonist excuse: “I think people need to start wondering why monkeys are wandering around NY posting “BEWAR IF DOG” signs on the street. I mean surely that is chaos. Also, stimulus bill? Similar spelling errors. You’ll thank me later.”
It seemed pretty clear fro the TV coverage this story has gotten in NY that most people are rather…miffed…at the New York Post.
Which is as it should be. Yes, many believed it was dead-on racist, but most sentiment seemed to lie along the lines of “there’s a dead chimp in a picture being linked to Obama”.
That alone, even if Obama was white (someone on the radio this morning alluded to us calling Bush “Chimpy”), should have made the editor of the paper stop and rethink publishing the picture.
Too, the shooting of the chimp, while necessary, has been perceived as a terrible tragedy that caused a lot of pain for a lot of people in and around Stamford. That pain and sadness has been featured in the tabloid stories here.
It was a dumb, unfunny and probably unintentionally racist (I’m going to be liberal and give the ‘toonist the benefit of not being self-aware here) cartoon who’s only intent was to pump up the sales of the NY Post, a failing shitrag of a newspaper which will likely be the first to go when the depression hits in earnest.
There is NO fucking such thing as different human ‘Races’
How’s that for ya sparky?
It was a dumb, unfunny and probably unintentionally racist (I’m going to be liberal and give the ‘toonist the benefit of not being self-aware here) cartoon who’s only intent was to pump up the sales of the NY Post, a failing shitrag of a newspaper which will likely be the first to go when the depression hits in earnest.
I think this hits the nail precisely on the head. Delonas has a long history of being a jerk and hating gay people but his cartoons are not racist. I think the cartoon meant to Delonas exactly what he drew… sometimes a chimp is just a chimp. Delonas’ bad luck was that the cops shot a chimp and not Bozo the Clown.
But I think the NY Post will last at least as long as Murdoch is alive. Murdoch has enough money to keep the Post running. He has never made any money from the Post but I don’t think he cares. He just likes having a way to get his opinions out there.
and as I posted earlier ‘A ‘racist’ embraces their ignorance and seeks out ways to reinforce their fear’.
I have defined ‘racism’.
tick tick tick
Ziggy’s at the complaint department again:
“The New Yorker is stealing my ideas.”
Now THAT’S funny.
Just another n****r lying about being victimized by whites.
But that was a long time ago. Anti-black racism is over.
Yes indeedy.
Delonas’ bad luck was that the cops shot a chimp and not Bozo the Clown.
Now THAT would have been funny!
Hey, who let The Autistic in?
Racism: the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others.
If you have this belief, you’re racist.
If you don’t, you aren’t.
We aren’t. You are.
Capisci?
racism has nothing to do with race
Very good Autistic.
“Racism” is fear projected onto those who are seen as different or weaker.
Bigotry is another word for it.
How then do you explain affirmative action?
Affirmative action is an attempt to help those people who have been locked out of jobs due to their skin color. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? Why are you SO afraid of Michelle Obama?
I think we may need to find a definition a little less self-serving than “anyone owlbear1 despises.”
So, now that I haven’t given you the definition that you want, I am the one doing the ‘despising’?
I am sorry for victimizing you! I am saddened that you’ve been scarred by despicable actions.
You talked so tough…
Shorter trolls: Obama’s black, I tells ya! BLAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
I wonder when the whitey tape will finally surface?
Editor Korir, are you listening?
Trolls: scream louder. It’s a long way to my killfile.
Well Fuck,
This Troll is without a doubt one of the Reagan Refugees.
Harmless to himself and others…
“Parody” or not…
Because you called it racist, cracker.
Also, define “Barack Obama.” I mean, what the fuck?! That ain’t no fuckin’ name, yo. You can’t be serious. “Barack Obama.” Get the fuck outta here. Yo momma ain’t name you no damn “Barack”
Man, I hate it when people make up racist attacks.
Poor The Autistic. He’s not even aware of how racist he is.
Pity. Know thyself, Autistic. Know thyself.
It really doesn’t matter what I write does it?
I am sorry life is such terrifying drama for you.
I really am.
“Parody” or not…
“Ok, as a mixed race black dude I may have some skin in this game. I am sick of every goddamned time some racist fuck does something that the 50’s would call suspect, I never cease to be amazed when some jackass invariably shows up to lament, “P.C. lynching, P.C. Thugs, or P.C. censorship, You are the racists, oh my!!!” I am not the first to say this but you all know it is short for, “Why can’t I walk down the street screaming Nigger anymore?”
I knew Neil wasn’t arguing in good faith the second he began sobbing about P.C. lynchings, et al. The whole “Political Correctness” brouhaha of the 90’s was an almost entirely manufactured “crisis”, in which a few powerless students wagging their fingers and saying, “You shoudn’t say such things!” was hyped as being equal to or greater than the worst abuses of the government, the police, the media, the military and the intelligence agencies. In other words, False McCarthyism vs. the Real Thing, and many of the “liberal media” gasbags who leapt aboard this particular bandwagon were unbelievably shameless (even by their usual standards), shrieking non-stop about how “oppressed” they were from some pretty Goddamned privelged positions. It was sickening to watch…and still is.
Excuse me, Autistic, but where did you see me call it “racist”.
I said I believe the cartoonist unintentionally made a racist statement with his cartoon.
His belief. His racism. Not my belief. I’m not a racist.
But sadly, there are racists like you in this world, and they need to be dealt with under the law in order that all people have equal opportunities.
And if you needed a justification for affirmative action, cracker, look in your own mirror.
Had enough, Troofie, or shall I go on pwning you?
Again?
Sure is sweet to live in a bright-red, Republican-governed welfare state!
Better question for you, Troofie.
Why shouldn’t the Secret Service shut down the NYPost for threatening the Preisdent of the United States with assassination?
What does “racist” mean?
Boy, you really take me for a fool. I’ve already posted that “racism” is the belief that people can be sorted out by their own racial characteristics, which I said I believe this cartoonist did unintentionally.
Now, when you’re done sorting out that (IRONY ALERT!)dizzying logic, answer me why the cartoonist and by extension, you for defending the cartoon, shouldn’t be in the hoosegow.
Troofie pwned?
Check.
My work here is done.
*doing Troll Stomp Dance*
many names added to killfile.
It is a good day.
How convenient.
I’m really sorry for you Autistic, that you’re own mental capacity is so small that you can’t hold a thought of mine, clearly superior to anything you learned in your Reagan-era Department of Education schooling, for longer than a few minutes.
And do you really want to cherrypick interracial violence statistics with me?
I love the phrasing here. As if to imply, “Because I’m the motherfucking king of cherrypicking interracial violence statistics, bitchez!”
Most honest thing Truthy’s ever (accidentally) said.
Oh, and we all know that Truthy’s definition of ‘racism’ is ‘any bad thing that any black person does to any white person’. He knows he’s full of shit now, but as I said upthread, they’re working to change the definition so that people genuinely think that’s what it means.
When these fuckers finally get to Hell, Orwell is going to piss in their eyes.
Truthy got a tiny boner when he used the word ‘codified’ there.
LUK MA I IZ AN INTERLEKSHUARL
Where’s my motherfucking whitey tape?
Go ahead and define racism, liberals.
If I promise to come back later and do that for you will you promise to keep actor212 busy down here for the rest of the day? Just keep taunting him. He can’t resist you.
Awe, poor widdle twoll twolling the twoll twolling me…
So while Actor212 charges dumbly into logical holes of his own making
TRANSLATION:
Fuck! He got me! I better ignore him.
It must be so hard for Twoofie to go through life with such horrible oppression cast upon it.
Here is how it will go down next week. First, the results from Virginia and North Carolina will come in, and they’ll be declared for McCain. You’ll be disappointed, but “no big deal, change can’t come overnight” will be your comment. Florida will go red, and a little nervousness will creep in. The usual suspects will fall into the usual categories. As the night drags on, Ohio, Colorado, and (much to your horror) Pennsylvania will be too close to call.
My advice at this point to you will be to go to bed. You will wake up to a McCain presidency and the Great Liberal Freakout will be on.
Bookmark this, liberals, as this is exactly how it is going to go down. You will be wonder how the hell I was able to call this.
It must be so hard for Twoofie to go through life with such horrible oppression cast upon it.
I’d pity him but that would be affirmative action on my part. He wouldn’t like anyone to do that for his sake.
It’s interesting how Autistic enjoys ignoring American history in favor of his own self-inflated ego.
Me! Me! Me! Gimme! It doesn’t matter that for over two hundred years in this nation we’ve tarred and feathered black men and hung them and raped their women and enslaved them!
ME! IT”S ALL ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
It’s interesting how racist you are, Troofie. You actually believe that black people have an unfair advantage just because they are black.
Why, that’s the very definition of racism!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
As Marshall Sahlins says, “The more things stay the same, the more they change.”
Truth-
Since it worked last time, why is it so important that we cater to your fantasies that racism doesn’t exist, that blacks are the real threat, etc… Why is it so important that we cater to your fantasy. Who did you kill? Who’s mother’s son did you end that you must prop this fantasy in order to forgive? What blood is on your hands?
The rest of the racism deniers, given the history, white people don’t get to be the be all end all judges on this shit. There were whites claiming the above wasn’t racist. Troofus certainly seems to be as such. You’re bad at this shit and it’s time to actually listen to the oppressed groups and admit that they’ve frankly had a lot better at this as they are the ones killed over these attitudes, these “harmless jokes”. And frankly after the noose incidents of before, white people don’t get to say, you’re being over-sensitive. Period. Give it up. Accept it. Or rather think about why exactly it’s so personally important to you to deny the virulence of racism in society.
If you are not personally benefitting from racism, if you are not committing it, if this doesn’t hit close to home, what do you care if this racist gets called out? We all have racist baggage that we’re trying to unpack, assumptions conditioned into us that we hardly even think about. Get over it, join the struggle.
From M. Bouffant’s link: Mr. Delonas has drawn ire from a number of groups for past cartoons in The Post. In 2006, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation denounced a cartoon of his that showed a man carrying a sheep wearing a bridal veil to a “New Jersey Marriage Licenses” window, a reference to the State Supreme Court’s ruling that year requiring the state to grant same-sex couples the same legal rights and benefits as heterosexual couples through civil unions.
But he wasn’t really implying gay = bestiality, folks were like so totes overreacting!
the reference is to an actual monkey-related major news story that happened yesterday
In which case the guy would be so tone deaf he couldn’t carry a tune in a lidded bucket.
I’m also really enjoying the “I believe in free speech so anybody who thinks this guy is wrong/an asshole/whatever should shut the fuck up” overtones, too.
Twoofie, paraphrased: ‘You can’t define racism’ = ‘I GOTZ BIG TOOL & MY SAT SKORZ R00L LOLWTF’
Twoofie, paraphrased: ‘You can’t define racism’ = ‘I GOTZ BIG TOOL’
But he’s totally not teh ghey….
Alrighty, a good’s night sleep and I come back to find out that of course, I am the racist coward. And yes, I am discounting every black on white crime as if it never happened (sarcasm). I should never have de-lurked as I knew beforehand that arguing with the trolls is just plain stupidity. You just can’t do it. Strawmen galore. Here is a real world example: I worked for a law enforcement entity in Minnesota a few years ago. Some black males were arrested for a shooting and held in our jail. The other cops were talking about the case and one asked, “Have you ever seen these guys before?” Another answered, “I don’t know, they all look the same to me.” Hilarity ensued. “What’s racism?” It’s like pornography, you know it when you see it.
@Just Alison, thanks for your kind words. I know what these idiots are trying to do, and in my case I fell for it. I try to be better than that.
There were.
Are we being trolled from Mumbai? Why don’t they know anything about this country?
.
From zero to self-refuting in two sentences.
Definitely not Mumbai. They tend to be educated.
.
@Authentic, yes let’s discuss: Emmit Till, James Byrd Jr., James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, and oh, about 250 years of slavery and being born in America not necessarily being full Americans (like now with teh geigh). Usually I find the people who fall all over themselves to forget these things and then bring up acts by the group they are against is pretty telling. But yes, I must hate half of myself.
No, just pointing out that you’re an idiot. Looks like I didn’t need to since you do such a good job of it yourself. You’re still confusing affirmative action with racial discrimination, and racial discrimination with racism itself, all while demanding definitions of racism.
Kinda funny, actually.
What this “reveals about us” is that we’re familiar with the distinction between disparate impact and disparate treatment, whereas you don’t seem to know much of anything, which explains your politics.
.
Oh yes, affirmative action. It is obvious to anyone but you stupid Liebruls that there has never once been an instance of someone being equally qualified for a job not getting it because they were a minority. Not once. I am too inept for HTML but wasn’t there a study where people with “black” names and people with “normal” names applied at companies with the same qualifications? Wasn’t it found overwhelmingly that the “normal” names were the ones to get called back? But no, we don’t need anything that might level the playing field and give traditionally underrepresented people a chance. That would be UnAmerican, right?
I guess The Authentic Passive-Aggressive Racist is off googling about the laws he didn’t know about.
Maybe we’ll see him later?
.
You are so right, Authentic, because it is not an official policy it must not exist, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. As for Prop. Hate, I think that tired trope about who voted the most for it has been pretty much debunked. I would like to speak about the power of clergy in regards to the black community and how that may have influenced things a bit, but then you would accuse me of “racism” against the church. I am going to run away as I am caught in a battle of wits with someone who wants to believe that America is now a country full of black people who want to “get Whitey”. I don’t believe that any more than I believe the majority of whites want to exterminate me and mine. Your projection is saying more than I ever could.
Even I can’t believe how boring I am. Seriously! I just re-post the same topic, the same comments, over and over again. Jeez, why do I keep banging my head against this brick wall of snarky lie-berals. They don’t respond to me exactly the way I want them to, they won’t follow my rhetorical script so that I can vanquish! them, and yet I just keep doing it.
I dunno. Maybe I should rethink how I spend my time …
Blart that! Let’s talk about Jena 6 some more, lie-berals! Blart infinity!
BLAAAaaaaaaaaaarrrt
“In 2006, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation denounced a cartoon of his that showed a man carrying a sheep wearing a bridal veil to a “New Jersey Marriage Licenses” window,”
Well clearly, this was a reference to Dolly the Cloned Sheep, whose death in 2003 had been widely reported in the news a mere three years previous.
It just shows what kind of disgusting minds the gays/sheep-fuckers have, that they’d draw some completely irrational connection with same-sex marriage.
Jeebus, there sure are a lot of trolls coming out of the woodwork!!
Yep … must bite some epic ass to see your whole ideological franchise going tits-up right in front of you. Social progress is slowly but surely rolling right over them like a steamroller over a bag of weasels, & there’s literally jack-shit they can do but dial Whine-One-One on the Interwebz &/or pray to SkyCop to smite their secular humanist DFH arch-enemies down. Pride goeth before a fall, motherfuckers. Goodbye “permanent majority” … hello doghouse.
Who could’ve anticipated that shooting more holes in the hull wasn’t the best way to save a sinking ship?
One in particular has been on a total screaming-meemie trollgasm-bender here ever since America elected a black man as POTUS … which pretty much speaks for itself. The yelps of “HYPOCRISY!!11!!” are the cherry on the Irony Parfait, & it’s sad for me to think such a feast of LOL will one day end.
I rarely have anything to do with it any more, since in all my interactions with it, it NEVER answered ANY of my pertinent questions. Not even with its usual talking-point bullshit. An occasional attempt at diversion – or nada. Spanked again & again, still hasn’t owned it to this day, yet keeps coming back – as if begging for more Raw Ass Therapy.
If that fish was able to jump out of its semantic barrel & dodge better, I might lock & load. It can’t. I can own my own REAL hypocrisy. As far as I’ve seen, it can’t do that either. It may as well change gigs & be a spambot – the pay’s better.
I should never have de-lurked as I knew beforehand that arguing with the trolls is just plain stupidity.
Thanks for de-lurking, Jack… it’s always good to improve the signal-to-noise ratio.
And don’t try to pass yourself off as a non-coastal type… we all know that teh Wisconsin’s got, like, bays and stuff.
I know it’s bad form to awake from lurkdom to enter an argument with a “troll”–and really, what can I realistically gain for doing so other than the same sort of smug self-satisfaction that he is attempting to achieve by ostensibly proving that programs like Affirmative Action are just as “racist” as, say, the racially motivated slaying of Ricky Byrdsong,–but I just can’t help it when people who have a tenuous grasp on language and its meaning endeavor to bully.
See, the thing is, I can agree that a program like AA favors one race over the other, and that may help certain people sleep (in jammies or no) soundly at night, content that the world is indeed stripped of context and is purely objective. Such a belief, I assume, is what causes one to call himself/herself “The Truth” (or derivations thereof) when posting online. For in this frame of mind, there is only THE truth, and it is equitable across space and time, nuance be damned. It should come as no surprise that his subject position prevents the person from ever engaging in real “debate.” What is the point of argument if one holds the truth, after all? All you can attempt to do is convert the unenlightened.
But see, here’s the thing–and since I’ve already suggested that argument with a “Truth-teller” is like trying to interrupt Onan from spilling his seed, this comment is intended primarily as support for my comrades at S,N!–truth is contextual, language is contextual, “racism” is contextual. There exist overwhelming historical and social contexts that lay low any argument that AA “means” the same thing as a similar program privileging whites would. I suspect that “The Truth” isn’t so obtuse to not recognize this.
However, in the struggle for attaining (and maintaining) power, people must strategically deny context, say such things “don’t matter,” that “reason” somehow exists outside of socially negotiated discourse. That’s what my plumber would have me believe, anyway. But I say there are leaks in my upstairs bathroom, as there are leaks in “The Truth.”
Round and round we go.
Troofie, you still haven’t answered my question and I’m calling the Secret Service if you don’t.
Why shouldn’t you be in jail for supporting the killing of our President, Barack Obama?
And don’t deny it, you did it upthread.
C’mon, Autistic, I’ve got my finger poised over the last digit in the phone number…
Come on, Racist! Why aren’t you supporting your President?
Why are you advocating a treasonous assasination of this nation’s duly elected leader, you Islamofascist bastard?
“But see, here’s the other thing . . .”
SIGH.
What’s the matter, you latte-sipping anti-American? Cat got your tongue?
Oh, wait, that would imply you’re not gay.
Which of course, you totally aren’t, no sirreeeeeee!
So Truth:
Considering how crucial it is to you that racism be not only unreal but reversed (because of the guilt of ending a mother’s son), I assume naturally that you would be fully willing to trade all of the non-existent benefits and consequences of being white for the obviously-existing benefits and surely-not-consequences of being black? Furthermore, would you be willing to engage in this trade on behalf of your entire race?
Because I can say that blacks would love to accept.
For the rest, a picture of Truth in younger years. He’s his daddy’s son all right.
I’m also baffled at the supposed point of Truth. Basically his argument seems to consist of if I can somehow someway get a small subset of liberals to admit blacks are human beings, then it’s finally ok for me to slaughter them in a genocide race war. I’m just not getting what he seeks to gain other than absolution by “the enemy” for the black blood on his hands or that of his family.
Especially the Prop 8 thing, if some people who voted liberal in an election are susceptible to homophobia, this somehow proves that institutional biases aren’t a real and unfortunate phenomenon replaying themselves with modern tragedies…ok, sure, why not.
The point is you writing stuff.
You writing stuff.
Big Bad Bald Bastard,
Thanks my man, I feel welcome already. I even live in a city that might be on a green body of water, sometimes referred to as a bay. That is why I am infected with the librul bias. Oh noes!11!! I just really, really want to thank you all for fighting the good fight here. You guys (and ladies, oh yes) got me through 2004-now with teh awesome.
Truthy, if it’s one of your opinions on black people, it’s probably racist.
There’s your definition.
I believe that this is a version of the“You Too” Fallacy: since some people who voted for Obama must have voted for Prop 8, then one of the following conclusions MUST be drawn 1) that either Prop 8 must be righteous or Obama is anything but OR 2) The voters for both are obviously conflicted (or flawed), which makes any position they vote for moot.
At heart, it is a move to conflate the issue with the voter, and unfortunately, such a tactic (when sweeping generalizations about, say, “ReTHUGlicans” or some such are made) is used by those on the left too.
I can point to anti-white racists like Amiri Baraka openly calling for genocide of white people. Can you find any mainstream white person doing the same?
Because Amiri Baraka is so often seen on the TeeVee as to be “mainstream”.
CapnFatback,
We see in The Autistic’s own words his deep conflict between his innate racist beliefs juxtaposed with his deep-needed desire to be accepted into polite society.
This will ultimately destroy him as a human being, if he really is one (jury is still out on that), but it doesn’t stop him from pedaling that Big Wheel tricycle harder and harder, hoping one day it will magically transform him into a Tour De France winner.
But, soft, Troofie…when will you be applying for membership in the NAACP, since they clearly have all these advantages you seek?
I invite you as I invite all of my liberal droogs to define “racism.”
I’m here to help.
Knock yourself out!
Oh, wait. That’s what I was looking for.
I’ll fuck off right now, then.
RB-
I can get that, but it’s still baffling. I mean exactly how horribly do you have to have ruined your own life and intimate friendships that the only thing that can give your life meaning, make you feel like you exist is that people you hate dislike you.
It seems to be the current Republican strategy for policy these days. It’s horrible, but at least it’ll make strawliberals cry, score for us. Is it just the isolating misery that comes from basing one’s life entirely around hating people who aren’t exactly like you? Or is it the Morgana-King Arthur thing that as long as you’re remembered in any way by someone, you won’t truly be dead. That is that Truth will at least live on as a horrible anecdote long after they finally collapse dead in their decaying apartment?
That is that Truth will at least live on as a horrible anecdote long after they finally collapse dead in their decaying apartment?
We’ll always look back and laugh loudly, in other words.
You get a massive, low information, block voting group and they may not do exactly what you want them to do.
What? Americans who think for themselves?
No WONDER you hate them so much, Autistic!
No, but do you really think that a hundred years is a long time? …Or, if we’re talking about Jim Crow laws in the wider sense, then fewer than fifty years?
You know, the South still hasn’t recovered from the Civil War, economically or psychologically. That’s what great upheaval can do — it can create generational problems with generational solutions.
You seem to think that life ought to be fair for you, that history ended when you arrived. What makes you suppose that life is fair?
Cerberus, did you actually read anything that I wrote?
Why? You sure as hell don’t!
Gavin, if I might make a non-banning request, please consider having a “trolls must use the same name” rule. Makes killfiles easier to maintain.
Heck, Gavin, even in the 1990s, banks were redlining minority neighborhoods and refusing to lend for mortgages!
Redlining
You mean when I point out that the comment you quoted was noting that no progress will happen until the generation that physically committed the crimes has naturally died out or that irrational hatreds like yours are in a slow but steady decline across the ages as each generation proves less intolerant than the one before, owing to increases in personal interaction with other minorities and away from the intense dehumanizing rhetoric of the generation past. That is that progress marches with the slow natural death of the bigots of the last generation.
Or where I post this example of who and where you are.
But we get to the why. Better laughed at than forgotten? Better disliked than unheard? Better infamous somewhere than unknown everywhere?
If so, we believe you. You hate black people. We are glad to carry you along as an example wherever white people try and deny the existence of racism. We will carry on your memory and laugh. And laugh.
Yeah, you know, the old laissez-faire troll policy just isn’t working up to the ideal these days.
Well wait, let me try to be meticulously fair. Mr. Troll, if we’re having problems with trolls posting too much, and under other people’s names, then what would be an effective way to solve the problem?
THIS
Please?
The reality is that in so far as there is racism in the United States, it is directed against white people.
I’m not really Gary Ruppert or even the usual GR imposto(e)r, but this seemed like a lay-up.
And according to some with an interest in such matters, the end of redlining via Federal law IZ WUT KRASHED TEH ECOMONY!!!!
Those tens of trillions in homeowner loans in lower-income neighborhoods.
In California, Proposition Eight passed with overwhelming support from black people (Prop Eight bans gay marriage). Liberals here have been trying to blame Prop Eight on conservatives, but as Obama won California easily, clearly the Democrats outnumber the Republicans. So the question is, Which Democratic block voted for Prop Eight? Hmmmm…..
This statement belies two things:
1) lack of understanding of how statistics works
2) unsupported leap to conclusion based on presumption, not statistics
Ahh. Yet again, no real response.
The only thing Prop 8 proved was that spin & scare-tactics can help anachronism-fetishing scumbags to pass regressive measures once you boot-fuck the educational system long & hard enough. Shocking stuff, that.
I’m sure that someone will be crying about the Islamohomofascist abuse of individual freedom or community standards when it gets overturned. Boo fuckin’ hoo.
Funny how a certain someone wasn’t waaaahing so much as one little snivel about the terrors of multi-trillion dollar debt up until, oh, say, November – even as that debt skyrocketed like never before (or since) thanks to Paulson, Bush & Bernanke … the same someone who’s apparently mortally a-skeered of the same immigration that made America great … & just LOVES to call other people hypocrites.
Ugliness? Wait until some of the “Bush-Cheney CIA Fun-Camp” torture evidence starts to come out – THEN you’ll find out what real ugliness looks like.
I hear you, Simba.
I’m thinking about how such a thing would work. How would you set that up?
Jack, name one institution in America that can officially prefer white people over black for admission or hiring. You can’t do it, and yet that is as categorical a definition as racism as there is.
Jack can’t do it because it is illegal. No institution would dare do it, because such a policy, formally stated, would constitute a prima facie violation of Federal law.
That being said, there are many companies with unofficial or unstated preferences. Some preferences are racial in nature. Some are religious in nature. And some are ageist/sexist in nature. I don’t care to tell you much more than that, but my spouse and I have seen some of those preferences in action.
You demand an impossible level of proof, most likely, I suspect, because you know that such a level of proof does constitute a violation of the law.
Gavin,
You’d need to make it a registration-only site with no commenting unless you were logged in.
Of course, that would make it infinitely easier for killfiles too.
professional failed actor Actor212</i?
a) I’m not, but I refuse to let you know precisely what you’ve seen me in…and trust me, you’ve seen me…until you put your own ass on the chopping block and put enough skin in the game that makes it worth my while to let you violate my privacy.
b) And even if I was, better than than failed human being like you, Troofie.
You either have to try to support your arguments
Why don’t you live your words, Troofie? I’ve never seen you back up your own words with any proof beyond someone else’s opinion.
trolls must use the same name
Does this apply to troll-mockers as well?
Concerned troll-mocker is concerned.
OB–
I also am intrigued by the “low information” angle. It’s clever, really, in it’s Draconianism.. Either the voters were “low-information” and thus voted both yea for the wrong (in this case, Obama and Prop 8), or they knew exactly what they were doing, in which case either Prop 8 SHOULD have been voted down, or the left is in bed with people who hate.
Again, totally devoid of nuance, and fairly transparent, but it certainly will play well in GOPeoria.
as it would cut down on the tiresome claims that I am somebody like Conservative Observer, RedState, etc.
If we have to put up with your tiresome claims, then you putting up with ours sounds like sauce for the gander.
OB-GYN Kenobi said,
February 19, 2009 at 22:28
[to Troofie]
If we have to put up with your tiresome claims, then you putting up with ours sounds like sauce for the gander.
Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn!
I have to say I understand the trolling impulse and have partaken of it. There isn’t much point in figuring it out or guessing at the state of the troll, just work out what your own tolerance level is. If you have to respond, think of the other people reading the thread and make an effort to infotain them.
It’d be interesting to somehow enforce a verse-only response to trolls.
Either the voters were “low-information” and thus voted both yea for the wrong (in this case, Obama and Prop 8), or they knew exactly what they were doing, in which case either Prop 8 SHOULD have been voted down, or the left is in bed with people who hate.
There is a third possibility, one Troofie refuses to acknowledge in his own racism and bigotry:
Independent voters could vote simultaneously for a better candidate (Obama) and a piece of hate legislation, while liberals all voted against Prop 8 and for Obama.
But, hey, it’s his little fantasy that the world is either black or white, not mine….
I also am intrigued by the “low information” angle. It’s clever, really, in it’s Draconianism.. Either the voters were “low-information” and thus voted both yea for the wrong (in this case, Obama and Prop 8), or they knew exactly what they were doing, in which case either Prop 8 SHOULD have been voted down, or the left is in bed with people who hate.
There’s also the conflation of the two separate issues and the presumption that the vote pools for each were the same. As I told the troll last week (who may or may not be the same as our current nitwit-in-residence), there’s such a thing as undervoting.
At any rate, it’s a very transparent dig at the supposedly “low-information” voters the Right — and particularly this troll — doesn’t care for. Come on, trollie — don’t be niggardly with your complaints.
Again, totally devoid of nuance, and fairly transparent, but it certainly will play well in GOPeoria.
Straight out of the playbook, isn’t it? I’d say our troll is gambling on that nuance not being picked up on by the low-information voters of the GOP.
Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn!
Thank you! I’ll be here all week! Don’t forget to tip your servers!
actor–
Spot on.
The simple answer is he can’t, nor do I really feel inclined to go down the long list of modern lynchings, most recently famous being the assassination on the Oakland BART and this. Nor of course the lovely serenade of his personal calls for a genocide race war against blacks which has already claimed a number of victims including those who fled from Katrina who were shot by the town “protecting themselves.
But I’m also directly curious about why it’s so physically, emotionally crucial to Truth’s being that this particular group of liberals agree with his mad rantings that he has repeatedly used IP maskers and new psuedonyms to avoid kill filters and bans.
Maybe it’s this. Yes, Troothie, your persistence is rewarded. Liberals have been engaging in a secret campaign for years, inventing the myth of -isms for the sole reason of covering up our in-depth campaign to feed whitey to Cthulhu and make the remaining white people feel really guilty for things that only occurred on secret Islam-communist movie screens. Only you have seen the light and if you can only find the correct muslim to torture before tomorrow afternoon, you can save America from European Socialism. The clock is ticking, you are Jack Bauer. And you have a three foot penis.
Functionally speaking there are very few of these animals and the amount of posts they generate seem small enough not to bother about. It’d be nice if they were funny or interesting though.
I almost missed this. Nice meta-comment about context.
In any case, I humbly suggest that the comments be renamed “The Echo Chamber” because around here, we all agree with Mr. Johnson!
“Sam Johnson’s got a point!”
RB-
There once was a troll from Nantucket.
Who grabbed onto a sheep and-
Look, I don’t understand this rhetorical script that I downloaded, I’m just copying from it. Let me try again – ask a liberal to define racism … oh crap … here we go … define racism, lie-berals!
Blart!
It’d be nice if they were funny or interesting though.
Ouch.
Isn’t it strange the echo winds blow
Cascading tripping, growing, conflicting
In its multitudes of chaos.
What strange echoes in this endless hall
Of teeming, chattering humanity.
Also, blart.
Troll born yesterday
Doesn’t understand justice
Fall down on dog poo
I was told there would be terza rima format.
That would be really drastic, I think. Maybe the answer is just to be less idealistic about banning IPs and/or moderating comment-blizzarding trolls…
How beautiful she
Became in the amber light
Of a Heineken
Don’t you love farce?
My fault I fear.
I thought that you’d want what I want.
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns.
Don’t bother, they’re here.
I was told there would be terza rima format.
Does that come with the bolognese sauce or do I have to have it al fresco?
Get to me, Troofie?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Poor little man. You fail, yet again!
Make sure it is cooked al dante.
The Authentic said,
(Ignored all substantive replies and objections, went instead for ad hominem attack)
Trollie, UR t3h fail. But thanks for outing yourself as last week’s visitor.
Oh. Sorry, that’s supposed to be in verse.
Poor little Troofie
Thinks he’s all that
Never had a mentor
Even killed his cat
Maybe one day he’ll
Find a girl
And maybe one day
He’ll learn just who I am
Make sure it is cooked al dante.
*gets out Sixth Circle Of Hell crock pot*
Trolly wants the absolution of a comedy site
For crimes of hate and lack of thought
And his bed wetting fear of all in the night
What sounds, what ho, his words have wrought
All because he wanted Obama shot.
I’ll need to be paid to try and make that iambic pentameter.
You’d need to make it a registration-only site with no commenting unless you were logged in.
I don’t know if it would; looks like this would get you most of the way.
Nice alt, tig 😉
Does that come with the bolognese sauce or do I have to have it al fresco?
Make sure it is cooked al dante.
Ah, al forno
There once was a trollie named Troofie
Who couldn’t get flies off his dookie
He licked and he bit
And smeared all his shit
But the flies all stuck to his roofie.
“Hmm. This is another interesting tack. The subject combines an ad hominem attack on one person while insisting that another has failed to answer his questions, willfully neglecting that his whole method of inquiry has been called into question by the collective.
More study needed.”
*Turns off tape recorder*
I think so too. but I don’t think the trolls need to be banned if there’s a killfile available and Djur’s magical RSS feed (you might want to ask him if you can steal that). The trigger for a ban could just be wandering usernames.
That might be a minority opinion because I think a healthy number of entertaining regulars are itching for bans, but it’s a halfway point between the ideal free-speech position and the Evil Totalitarian Principles We Leftists Admire.
Authentic – why are you simply dismissing anyone who doesn’t voluntarily step into your admittedly tilted frame by attempting to “define” a complex word that’s well nigh impossible to fully encompass in a blog post, especially after you’ve openly stated that doing so will immediately doom their position in your opinion? What, then, would be the point of anyone engaging? Is it really surprising to you that people don’t wish to join in what you’ve told them is a losing battle in your mind? Perhaps you’d enlighten us with your own definition first, as a token of goodwill and intellectual honesty? Then we could discuss white racism vs. the black racism you seem so fond of talking about.
When you’re done, maybe you could explain what it has to do with the cartoon in question. This started as a discussion about one specific thing – a cartoon published in the NY Post. Is it or is it not racially insensitive/racist/offensive in a way that’s deserving of criticism? Simple question, the answer to which has nothing to do with affirmative action or your two wrongs make a right implication or your apparent belief that, since you yourself were not around during the Civil War or Jim Crow, that there’s really no qualitative difference between white and black racism. Your attempt to make this about some perceived liberal hypocrisy based on your ridiculous implication that we all think black people are all saints and Crystal Mangum or whatever her name is is not a despicable person is simply a strawman, totally ungermane to the topic at hand and not really worth replying to.
If you want to seriously engage liberals on your chosen issue, you’d be better-served to concede that the perception here of a shot-dead chimp supposed to be our new black president cartoon, as somewhat offensive and not especially helpful in a nation in which racial issues are still in existence, is valid. You might attract a few more flies that way than with your “you’re all hypocrites and morons” vinegar.
As for your obsession with black racism vs. white racism thing, might I ask you a couple things, just to see where it is you’re coming from? Do you think that our nation’s history of allowing the trade and abuse of blacks as property for a few hundred years, followed by institutionalized racism and a concerted effort by the majority to keep the minority terrified and/or economically disadvantaged for another hundred, has been negated or equalized by 30 years of Affirmative Action? Do you feel that the collective psyche of black Americans might possibly have been damaged by that history in ways that may linger despite the fact neither they (for the most part) nor you were alive then? Do you believe that any discrepency in the numbers of crimes committed by whites against blacks vs. blacks against whites wouldn’t likely be fairly predictable using socio-economic status instead of racial makeup? Do you honestly think there are more of what might truly be categorized as “racially-motivated” crimes committed by blacks against whites than the reverse? Do you feel that it’s possible that the racial majority in this country, which still controls almost all levers of true power and has most of the money, can actually be “oppressed” in the same way as the reverse may happen?
Poor Troofie, he just doesn’t get it. We’re rebelling against his intellectual dishonesty.
Troofie, blow on your hor-orn
And let your anger go
Bet you fall off your trike
Oh, that old thing? I just throw that in when I don’t know what to write… *flounce*
RB, did you see the disemvoweler link? The second code bit could be used just to change the name on a commenter from an admin-input IP address- no need to actually disemvowel, just change the multi-named back to one name and let the user read or killfile as they wish.
*gets out Sixth Circle Of Hell crock pot*
Shirley you mean the fondue kit.
Come on, you call me racist over and over again – point to one statement that illustrates that in your mind. I’ll be waiting.
Fuck you. You don’t own the discussion here.
If you’re going to call others out rudely, then you deserve whatever you get.
That would be really drastic, I think. Maybe the answer is just to be less idealistic about banning IPs and/or moderating comment-blizzarding trolls…
not that you asked for my opinion, but isn’t that just like a zombie? always breaking in where he’s not wanted?
but since adopting the killfile, I find even the onesided conversations by the ones who elect to play with the troll to be much more tolerable. After all, even during troll-baiting marathons, the normals around here bring mostly decent arguments to the table; the killfile, which is pretty easy to update, just allows you to skip the strawman redundant asshattery of the unwelcome visitors.
In other words, the comment blizzard has passes, and the sun occasionally breaks through….
Nice alt, tig 😉
All I could read was “pp”.
OK, Autistic, here’s where you’ve been racist:
And yes, the Affirmative Action Princess deserves all the scorn she’s received. Her entire life has been one of benefiting from racism towards whites.
Now, I’m calling a spade a spade: you’re a racist.
SC,
p00p, it said.
Who will rise up, rise up, and join his holy cause
His mind is pure, his goal is set, it’s set, it’s set
We swear it is set. He asks this one sole thing.
No this one thing. No this one thing. One sole thing.
Why do you doubt him, this honest man of cause.
And furthermore what is racist about needing all
To think of blacks as violent, animalistic, mindless creatures.
Palin ’12!
no need to actually disemvowel, just change the multi-named back to one name and let the user read or killfile as they wish.
frankly, if you can’t recognize the less entertaining trolls by the second or third post under a new nym, I don’t think you’ve been paying attention.
Come on, Autistic, prove how that was not racist…
My 1rr1t4bl3 v0w3l syndr0m3 is playing up again.
Comment moderation seems like a good compromise, although I don’t know if having someone with the keys watching the comments all the time is feasible. You don’t even have to delete the comments, just change Troofus’ name back from his latest sockpuppet nym.
The only other technical solution I can think of is similar to what they have at Ace of Spades, of all places. It is a one-way hash of commenters’ IP addresses, displayed as a little chunk of random letters next to their pseudonym and comment. This would require some tweaking of the killfile software, but it would basically allow each and every one of us to ban commenters by IP as we see fit, without affecting anyone else’s choices.
You cannot derive the person’s actual IP address from the hash code, just that it is the same person (same IP, more accurately) with one given hash code.
Little Troofie, the Foot In Mouth King
Tried to run us all around the ring
Fell on his face
He’s a disgrace
And we’re the ones wearing the bling!
Bling?
But how it rings
As we crown the troll of kings.
(I fear we are entering the loop of endless verse. Soon Shakespeare will soon kneecapping us.)
arrgh, I meant to have a “be” in there.
Actor, you should know better than to take SC seriously. Like, EVAR.
Zombie, yes, that’s true, but certain people have made nuisances of themselves by posting under a different fucking nym every goddamn time. Forcing to one nym means I don’t have to read idiotic swill unless I’m in Some Sort of Mood Because I Have Finally Lobotomized Myself With a Spork.
tigrismus-
Good times, good times.
The point of that is not recognition, it’s killfile management.
I looked but was too dumb to notice the really useful part. Seems like a useful find to me.
The point of that is not recognition, it’s killfile management.
And I’m sure the Nazis said the same thing.
Oh, damn, now I’ve Godwinned the thread.
Changing your name every few days to avoid killfiles is the very definition of a troll.
Spammers do it, too. That’s because they’re essentially the same thing.
Fairness isn’t distributive, bub. As a conservative you should appreciate that it isn’t possible to guarantee that everyone will have a good life, or that fate and luck won’t fall harmfully on some people while lifting others up unduly.
Affirmative Action is unfair to you, perhaps, and certainly to many individual white people. But if you can see beyond your own beautiful and unique self, with your important needs and feelings, then you might be aware that in the larger world, black people are disproportionately poor, live in places with crappy, neglected schools, and have what is called a ‘cycle of poverty,’ wherein children go to these crappy schools in these slummy neighborhoods and grow into adults who are no better off, according to nearly any index you can name, than the generation before them. Affirmative Action is a way for some people to break out of this cycle, increasing fairness in the wider sense, not only in the present but also, crucially, in the future.
Personally, I think Affirmative Action should be needs-based, to cover poor white kids, etc., who aren’t presently on any kind of road upward. That’s called ‘class warfare,’ btw. You guys don’t like that either.
On one hand, the continuing legacy of centuries of human chattel slavery. On the other:
1) How come it’s okay for black people not to like white people, but not teh other way around?!??
2) Has not read Culture of Complaint by Robert Hughes, or if so, zonked out on the passages that didn’t mention minorities.
3) Amiri Baraka said something bad, boo hoo.
But fine then, what was it that Baraka actually said, and what was he actually the poet laureate of?
There once was a troll named The Truth
Who thought he could make the libs cry
bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla
My big black foot in your ass
If one takes this tack, then it is immediately evident that black people engage in racism far more than white people.
Not at all. You reject the possibility that black people might be reacting based on prior experience, not simply based on skin color.
What lever of power do I or any ordinary white person control?
Depends on who you are. Perhaps you should identify yourself so that we can more provide a more accurate response.
Hey, Autistic, you said something overtly racist earlier today, which I just reposted.
So I can freely call you a bohunk, black-hating racist.
You’re done here.
One is that it is anything designed to denigrate or discriminate against someone based on their race. If one takes this tack, then it is immediately evident that black people engage in racism far more than white people.
Prove it. Point to a substantive, quantitative analysis of racism that proves that black people engage in racism more than whites.
Let me talk to Seb and see if that’s something easily done.
In a general sense, btw, installing plugins and doodads is easy, but we have to be careful they work and don’t mess anything up, because Seb isn’t always available in case of Internet emergencies…
Perhaps you should identify yourself so that we can more provide a more accurate response.
It’s interesting how he personalizes his own “oppression” yet somehow manages not to see the other side of this coin, which is that black people are as oppressed as he claims to be on a regular basis by individual white racists.
Like Troofie!
So I can freely call you a bohunk, black-hating racist.
Ix-nay with the urs-slay on ohemians-Bay!
[Exit actor212, pursued by a bear.]
It’s OK, Smut. I know Libby Scooter.
Bubba, in terms of a code-based solution, it shouldn’t be too hard to tie an IP to a name, or to have name changes trigger a ban, or any of a number of things like that. But as a point of planning, is the thing that most needs fixing the name-switching, or the excessive posting?
That’s so pretty! I hope they start singing that at weddings.
“despision”
The relevant word is despication. FYI.
I personally love that he is so oppressed by blacks who get free rainbows with every happy meal, but he seems to be unable to even entertain switching circumstances with them.
Which tells me two things.
1) He’s a lying racist shit who is desperately trying to follow the “How to Derail a Discussion on Racism” handbook
2) He’s such a racist that he can’t even entertain the idea of being black and thus having their gross cooties on him long enough to bolster his lie about how awesome their lives are.
I still want to hear his answer about why its so personally important to him that a bunch of libs accept his conspiracy theories about the great black Satan or better yet why he hasn’t jumped on the secret information I gave him about the conspiracy up-thread. Who will save whitey from Cthulhu, troofie? Affirmative action is the devil’s hand we use to distract you from the massive Cthulhu related deaths.
From my perspective, because I’m happy to fiddle with filters and so on, it’s name-switching. From the perspective of the esteemed user of Internet Explorer it must certainly be the excessive posting.
I suppose it’s not very egalitarian to demand a certain level of technical expertise to look at a website, but then I am a superman like Howard Roark.
Zombie, yes, that’s true, but certain people have made nuisances of themselves by posting under a different fucking nym every goddamn time.
🙁
I think it’s the nym-switching with the single minded focus. If he was just a sock-puppet, that’d be one thing, but I think the fact that he wants every single thread to be about his topic and to start at the beginning of the debate each time is what’s getting most of the regulars down best I can tell. I would argue you make him get his own blog to talk about the Black Racist Conspiracy and enforce that by threatening an IP ban if he continues changing nyms all the time or talking about the Secret Race War even on threads having nothing to do with race.
You blacks just want everything, don’tcha. Listen, we did away with that whole slavery thing. But was that enough? No! Had to get all uppity about the whole “Back of the bus” and “separate but equal” stuff–which, okay maybe was wrong, but c’mon that is all in the past, water under the bridge and over the damn, and all somesuch. Get over it! The truth is, you people are the REAL racists, all of you (okay not you Thomas Sowell–but watch it, I got my eye on you, too, boy!) Gaaahhhd.
P.S. Get a job!
Pancakes pancakes, every thread has to be about goddamned pancakes.
Nat X said,
It doesn’t rhyme, mais il a un certain I don’t know what.
Brian O’Nolan said,
Blather is always welcome from some.
Right, because Troofie’s obviously never heard of Rudyard Kipling, apparently.
Point to one post of mine that you consider racist
That’s been done, asshole and you’ve ducked it, yet again.
You’re thru, boy.
Hm, I often wonder, when Kipling referred to the White Man’s Burden, if he really didn’t mean lazy white folks like ol’ Affirmative Action Prince here, Troofie, who would never accept responsibility for their own lives?
A thought to ponder.
Y’know, that may just be it. Troofie is such a failure in life that he has to blame someone and since Republicans have been running the country (into the ground, I might add) and he’s been falling farther and farther behind, well, why not let his racism out in drips and drabs and blame blackie!
Poet Laureate of New Jersey
Like that’s a compliment?
I so pwn you, Troofie. I like to trot you out every so often and watch you get inflamed liek a hemorrhoid.
Quick, Troofie, name the last four poet laureates of the United States.
A five spot says he includes Dr Suess on the list….
That’s it. Troofie is the Human Hemorrhoid.
Fortunately there are plenty of readily available over-the-counter remedies.
A white man just can’t get a break in these PC times. When friends ask me how I’m doing, I tell them “not bad for a white man.”
Dammit, stop feeding the trolls! Or shove a fist up ’em and make ’em say something entertaining. reading their posts is like listening to Lord haw Haw’s last broadcast on “Hitler’s Inferno.” You think it’ll be funny, him being drunk on the air in Berlin while the Red Army rolls in, but it’s just soul-eroding.
That cartoon fails even on its own terms. It’s a humor trainwreck, or a homeless mental patient who craps his pants on the street.
Serr0ed got his ass kicked off Groupnewsblog.net ages ago.
I prefer to think of him as the Shamwow of Stupid.
Don’t knock the living you can make off commercials, Troofie. I get royalty checks that would knock your socks off!
But that’s not what I was talking about, and you know it.
can you imagine if he was white and saying this about black people? My goodness, according to liberals he would be worse than Hitler! But you see, black racism is the status quo (yet another piece of evidence for this.)
Ah, yes, the old ‘all black people believe in and wholeheartedly support anything any other black person says’ trope. Can you not see that you’re using your own racism as a tool to make claims about the racism of others?
BTW, your “evidence” is nothing of the sort.
What’s the matter, Troofie? Did you run into a dead end when you tried to cyberstalk me because I kept kicking your ass up and down the Internet?
There’s a reason for that, you see…
while I respond to most coherent criticism of my own posts
No, you haven’t. Pussy.
OB,
So far today, he’s overtly and blatantly made racist comments four different times (that I’ve seen). “They” all think together. “They” all get preferential treatment. “They” all…
And yet, he challenges us to find even one statement! It’s too embarassing to point all this out to him.
You’re part of the problem, here, champ. So I don’t see why you’re all puffed up like that.
Right, Simba, because when I scrupulously ignored the trolls, they suddenly disappeared…
Just relax on the posting, ok? I’m not saying you should ignore every last post but Christ, man, look at who has posted the most of the last two dozen comments…
I pleased as Punch to be able to say that a former student of mine has book of poetry coming out next month that has a favorable blurb from Baraka on the jacket.
Of course, my respect for Baraka would entail me having some understanding about the context of the violence in his poems in relation to the 1967 Newark Riots and a sense of empathy of living in an environment where I didn’t feel free in my own skin.
But there’s that pesky operative, nuance, again.
Good job, guys and gals. Keep Troofie in this thread as long as you can so he doesn’t infect the newer ones.
We expect this level of racism in black people
“They” again, Troofie?
Christ, man, look at who has posted the most of the last two dozen comments…
Don’t hate me because I have a T3 and a quick memory!
Lying Pseudonym is up in arms about someone else’s pseudonym not measuring up to its rigorous standards of fitness and accuracy! IT ARE AN OUTRAGE BLARGH!
(Actor212 confusedly pointing to banner ads and books in his own house doesn’t count.)
Scorched you yet again!
Too bad, Troofie. Everyone else who’s bothered to scroll back and see your own words thrown back at you has shook his or her head and pitied you.
You know the penance I prescribe for feeding trolls, Simba B… maybe it’s time to hand out the slash fiction essay assignments for troll feeders.
By the way, Simba B, have you kept up with that “low information” Confurvative fellow who wrote that misguided post on the “Cole” bomber?
Is anyone else loving the delicious irony of using Baraka’s angry screed about racist white trolls’ ideas about black men and how progress will never be made until trolls like our fair guest fade fully into the the realm of the past being used by Truth as some “scary black voice” likely only used because he thinks Baraka and Barack sound the same?
Cause I am.
And frankly if you need me to point out your racism or think you’ve only been asking one question, young man, you haven’t been reading your own posts. Also, what was the solution you proposed earlier about how to deal with these “violent, white woman raping, white man killing savages” again? I don’t quite remember.
Cerebrus,
Did you notice how he deliberately misspelled “Baraka”?
My patience is wearing thin, kind of like the distinction between what you are doing, and what spammers and trolls do.
But there are always killfiles, I suppose.
You’re welcome to put me there, Simba. I have no problem with that. I’m sorry I don’t blog within your parameters. I have my own life to live, thanks very much.
Dude, he’s been posting pretty regularly to that leftfurs group. He’s kinda cute, in a way, because he really seems to believe he is engaging in dialogue with the other side. But the problem is, he’s really, really, really, REALLY stupid.
http://community.livejournal.com/leftfurs/
Yeah, totally not a freudian slip. No siree.
Is it those blacks who wreck their own neighborhoods I’m no racist and if they like living in a slum fine but then they want to move here with their drugs and their crime and the courts say we have no rights at all?
It’s more interesting what you decide not to respond to. I made a principled case for Affirmative Action, and it seems that when you couldn’t get a lazy wedge into it, you shifted directly to a position of. . .look, you know, I used to think William Ryan was a bit of a ’70s wide-tie moonbat of the then-ubiquitous, now scarce social-sciences variety (the people conservatives are reacting to when they yell about the liberals and their big government). But then, you’re the guy Ryan was talking about, wouldn’t you say?
Re: Baraka and his speechcrimes, why don’t you write him a stern letter?
I’m sure he wouldn’t do that deliberately after spelling his name perfectly all along today, do you?
The point about Amiri Baraka is that any white person making similar statements would be demonized as a horrific racist; for a black man, it is just par for the course. We expect this level of racism in black people; it is a dog-bites-man story. It is standard liberal double standards and hypocrisy.
Uh, no.
You bring up Amiri Baracka completely out of context, assert that all liberals either agree with or don’t have a problem with what Baracka wrote, and then claim that as evidence of alleged “liberal double standards and hypocrisy.” What is missing in all that is you actually asking if anyone here agrees or disagrees with any of that material. What is missing in all that is you actually testing your thesis. What is missing in all that is any degree of honesty on your part.
It’s easier to use that broad brush when you don’t bother asking your subjects to speak up, isn’t it?
By the way, I’m still waiting for anyone to point to a post of mine they consider racist
It’s been done repeatedly in this thread. Your failure to acknowledge any of them does not constitute a failure on our part to rise to your challenge.
OB, if you think there is something substantive I haven’t addressed,
I’ve raised several points. Why don’t you reread the thread and find my posts to you?
feel free to bring it up.
In re your claim about no American institutions having an formalized policy of racism; see my reply and counter.
I’m happy to illustrate your vicious hypocrisy once again.
You’ve illustrated nothing on me personally, and certainly no hypocrisy on my part. It’s hard to make a creditable claim of hypocrisy when you do all the speaking for the people you’re trying to smear.
Capn, what would you think of someone who wrote as Baraka did but about black people?
You mean like Rudyard Kipling?
Dear Sir, I’m sorry this letter is late, it should have come at the beginning of the programme. Yours, Ivor Bigbottie, (age two).
It’s hard to make a creditable claim of hypocrisy when you do all the speaking for the people you’re trying to smear.
It’s hard to make a creditable claim of hypocrisy for us, yeah.
Once more Troofie, it was so important that I responded to you, but what exactly are you expecting from us. If we were suddenly to admit that there was an evil Black conspiracy to rape you in the ass, what do you expect would happen. Would it magically make racism go away, allow you to use the n-word again, lynch blacks with impunity, justify the race war? Step one is getting the libs to admit the conspiracy, what is your step two?
Along the lines of killfiles and such, I would just point out, knowing how these things work, I have kept my killfile fairly trim when using Djur’s server. Long lists of nyms to kill create more work for the server the longer they are.
All your posts are racist, because you more than any I have met in a long time have been warped by conspiracy levels of racist and every one of your posts drips with that irrational single-minded hatred of blacks and a need to blame the entire race for the imagined slights of a small minority and a complete denial of the entire lasting history of racism.
This is evidenced further by your insistence that I explain Emmitt Till in the context I already gave you in the fact that the lynch mentality has yet to flee, which was pointed out often and repeatedly in the responses I already gave you. And you are either too stupid or too evil to face. I posted the direct accusation, because you have already before on other threads urged we arm ourselves for the “race war” and you obviously believe that if whites face the same extreme oppression of blacks at hand of a great conpiracy, that some specific violent response is needed.
If you don’t already have blood on your hands in a modern murder of a black man, woman, or child, it has only been prevented by your cowardice.
Now, please, as your method, shift to the next question “I will not answer”.
I was wondering how this thread got to 567 posts.
Well, not really. I knew.
If I wanted to watch people mud-wrestling with a pig, I would go the appropriate p0rn site.
Which is…?
truthsgayblackprongs.com?
Good clean fun
If I wanted to watch people mud-wrestling with a pig, I would go the appropriate p0rn site.
I am interested in your organization and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Which is…?
Don’t know the site, but I know the theme song
Funny how killfile kills text, but not the little gray lines above blockquotes. I guess it’s like a neutron script.
OB, we’ve been talking about what constitutes racism, in the context of the NY Post cartoon.
You don’t own the discussion. If you want to be treated seriously and respectfully, then you should proceed with seriousness and respect. Demanding that others hew to your frame of the discussion is no way to do that.
I brought up Baraka as an example of a well-regarded black person
Not everyone here agrees with that.
openly expressing his hatred of (and indeed calls for violence against) white people. It is entirely relevant to the discussion, as it brings into sharp relief the liberal idea that only white people can be racist.
Ah, yes, the alleged “liberal idea” that you yourself advanced. I don’t agree with it. This is what happens when you presume to speak for others.
By the way, it is entirely disingenuous to suggest that liberals don’t agree with Baraka.
I’m a liberal and I don’t agree with him. So you can stuff your “disingenuous” label.
You had some knucklehead upthread express his admiration for him; you’ve seen a list of his awards.
Neither of those things oblige me (or anyone else) in any way to approve of Baraka’s writings, his sentiments or his body of work. Again, this is what happens when you presume to speak for others.
Baraka can express his anti-white racism because it is OK for black people to do this.
Who says so? I certainly didn’t.
You would condemn a white person who did one-tenth of what Baraka did;
Maybe I would and maybe I wouldn’t, but it isn’t for you to make claims on what I would and wouldn’t do. You don’t know anything about me, so anything you have to say about my thoughts and motivations is pretty much beside the point.
in fact, you even condemn me, without being able to quote a single racist post from me.
Sigh. There’s really no point in me personally doing it; you’ve been getting examples posted all afternoon long. And I’ve pointed out several apparent racist presumptions in your posts.
Your response about affirmative action was interesting. “No institution has anti-black policies because it is illegal,” you said. True enough. So why is it legal to have anti-white policies? I must have missed your explanation there.
You might get one, provided you can actually demonstrate the legality and existence of “anti-white policies” to my satisfaction.
In the liberal mind,
There you go, speaking for others again.
You know, it’s pretty funny watching you demand others post racist comments you’ve made when you make all these sweeping generalizations yourself. If you weren’t so hypocritical in your argumentation style, you might actually find yourself taken more seriously.
it is perfectly acceptable to have anti-white policies and to support anti-white sentiments that would be illegal and hateful if the races were reversed.
I’m a liberal and I have neither said nor thought any such thing.
This is self-evident
Translation: ‘I made it up and I’m not going to show you any evidence of it.’
but according to liberals it isn’t so because… because… why exactly?
I’m responsible for my own words, my own acts and my own thoughts. However, you’re attribute thoughts, beliefs and motivations to *all* liberals without even bothering to engage any of us in dialogue. Why not? If you’re so confident of your position, then what would you have to lose in actually *asking* any of us about Amiri Baraka (as opposed to making your blanket assertion above)?
See, half of your posts say it’s OK to have a double standard and the other half deny that you do.
Not my posts. You must be thinking of someone else’s.
I’m only one average person
That’s the first correct thing I’ve seen you write.
You know, on topic kind of, this post has not been updated since last I checked. Nor, to be perfectly honest and upfront with you and in a spirit of full disclosure, since I first checked. Demoncrap LIEberals lose again!
It depends on your killfile. Simba’s SN Total Commenter Death is pretty tidy. Thanks!
RB, the problem with TCD is I don’t see how many times a troll posts so I can laugh at his desperate, impotent emotional neediness.
But that would take work….
Actor–
As I’m sure you’ll agree, one of the other faulty applications of seeing the world in objectivist truth, of course, is the crystallization of events, disassociated from history and social context and pulled from the process of a life lived. Such a perspective holds an assumption that moments can be ripped from time/place/context and that once these things happen, they happened and future actions have no bearing on the previous.
I mean, do I disapprove of some of the provocative comments of Baraka? Absolutely. Do they completely define him and his work? Not at all.
Incidentally, in case you were wondering, I’m glad that more and more of my comrades in academia are of the “knowledge is socially constructed” variety, and less of the
kind, where reality exists outside of context.
Oh Rusty, let me give you a guh.*
*Daughter’s backward talk IN FULL EFFECT.
I’ve no idea how to quote-respond at this forum, so forgive the sloppiness:
Authentic – “There really are two broad definitions of racism. One is that it is anything designed to denigrate or discriminate against someone based on their race. If one takes this tack, then it is immediately evident that black people engage in racism far more than white people. The other definition is that racism exists only when exerted by those in power – the definition you allude to below. Either way, it is worth exposing what liberals mean by the word, and to prevent them from switching definitions when it suits them.”
Your binary choice is too rigid – the first can be the chosen definition while the distinction between two types of action implicit in the second is not summarily discarded. Selection of the first definition as the proper one affords one the ability to obscure any moral distinction between white vs. black racism, or theoretically between separate acts of racism by the same person. There is a scale of harmfulness and perniciousness in a racist act, and the grading on that scale is in part based on the relative power of the actor’s race. I humbly suggest your posts here seem to imply you either see no such distinction or, more likely, you’re striving for a false equivalency by not explicitly recognizing this factor.
I must admit your statement that “it is immediately evident that black people engage in racism far more than white people” had me laughing. Totally contrary to common sense observation, totally unproveable in any fashion, and with no evidence provided, and yet spoken so assuredly.
Authentic: “Well you have penetrated to the heart of the question. I want to know why you liberals think it is racist. It’s really a means to find out what you really mean by the word, and to make you see the implications of either definition you choose.”
I’m sorry, but I don’t feel you’re entitled to sit around probing “liberals” about why they think this cartoon is racist, unless you’re willing to submit that you yourself don’t feel it is. Perhaps I did penetrate to the heart of the question, but I can’t help but notice that you still didn’t actually answer it. Straight up, choosing either of your definitions: is it your opinion that the NY Post cartoon is deserving of opprobrium as racist? Yes or no, please. Not “Yes but some poet you’ve never heard of is a black racist, so why aren’t we excoriating him here as well?” Spare us the “But Al Gore has a big carbon footprint” b.s.
Authentic: “Here we disagree. Liberal hypocrisy on the issue of racism is entirely germane. Note how Cerberus claims that I’m racist without being able to reference a single post I made.”
Then you’re purity trolling and nothing more, I’m sorry to say. It comes across as an excuse to not criticize the actual substance of this thread, the Post comic. Or just deflect and distract your way around doing so. By the way, I’m not Cerberus, and he/she and others have pointed out numerous times where they think some of your assertions are problematic. Stay on target. Tell us your thoughts on the chimp cartoon, please.
Authentic: “What lever of power do I or any ordinary white person control? What money do you think I have? This sounds like a Definition 2 of racism, which victimizes white people simply for the color of their skin.”
You again haven’t actually answered the questions I’ve posed, but I’ll respond to your frame criticism, anyway. This isn’t about you as an individual. Have I claimed you’re personally keeping black people down? Are you actually denying that, by and large (outside of our new president, of course) the concentration of wealth and power in this country is with whites?
Off topic–
I like pie, especially fruit pie.
No, nobody especially cares about Amiri Baraka. For all anyone knows you’re just making up those lines from his poems, because nobody really reads Amiri Baraka. Furthermore, nobody is ever confronted with the ‘mainstream’ Baraka because he appears places like the Amy Goodman show if at all he appears on TV, which I personally wouldn’t know by scrolling through the channels, because I’m not even sure what Amiri Baraka even looks like.
I have a vague impression of a white linen shift and sunglasses, although that could be Gil Scott Heron: I couldn’t even properly say.
So what happened after that big 9/11 flap with Baraka that was in all the papers like 7 1/2 years ago, which was the last we heard of him, pretty much, until now?
OTOH, when was the last time one of the S,N! mods spent so much time in a thread, especially sparring with a troll?
Nice work, Gavin.
I’m not exactly sure what it means when even frickin’ Gavin can’t ignore him. Either we’re all powerless against it, or Gavin might just be the one to shut it up for good.
Let me first tell you how surprised I am to learn that you too are an academic.
She (Troofie) is an adjunct professor at the Copacabana Academy of Dramatic Arts.
Either we’re all powerless against it, or Gavin might just be the one to shut it up for good.
Crap, Simba, even I’m not that optimistic….
I get the impression Gavin just wanted to do a little lightweight sparring.
I’ll define race if you define bigotry.
Alright, next one to feed the troll has to write a 500 word piece of Duke/Dobson slash!
This is more revealing than you think. I note that you say the scale is based on the relative power of the actor’s race, not the actor himself. In other words,
INSERT UNFOUNDED SUPPOSITION
a white person’s racism could always be deemed more harmful simply because of the benefit of so-called white privilege. This privilege seems
INSERT UNFOUNDED SUPPOSITION
to resolve later on to a simple recognition that most
INSERT UNFOUNDED SUPPOSITION
wealthy people are white; however, all
INSERT UNFOUNDED SUPPOSITION
white people are tagged by this privilege concept.
Dude, that is QUITE the strawman you’ve built.
Uh, post needs to be finished in some way, avoidance strong. Besides that, there’s often so much stuff to be done inside WordPress that I don’t get to spend any here.
Gavin, the best way to finish the post is thus:
…in accordance with the prophecy.
Any more, and this’ll be a thousand-comment monster!
My better instincts tell me not to step in this but…
How is this Gavin’s problem, or anyone else’s on this thread? This just seems like so much of the “denounce AND reject” drivel that came up during the Dem primaries.
Oh, but he was America’s poet laureate on Sept. 11! He was lauded, not condemned! Goodness gracious, aren’t we all lefties in a pickle?
Now I read his poem about 9/11, and yeah, it struck me as somewhat paranoid, belligerent, even anti-Semitic. I’m glad the guy wasn’t giving the best man speech at my wedding, I’ll say that much.
So I can’t speak for anyone else here, but, here you go: I denounce AND reject Amiri Baraka. And yet it doesn’t do a damned thing to erase the shame of slavery and segregation from white (or, I suppose, mainstream) America’s history.
Not to be overly broad here and just add to things that need done, but I keep hearing from people who would know such things that WordPress is something akin to the Windows Me of blogging software. The main complaint is that it uses insane amounts of CPU, which of course leads to site slowness or webhosts shutting you off. I’m not sure what the alternative is, though, so don’t worry too much about it.
The more I learn about the PHP programming language, the more I realize that it is Visual Basic for Web 2.0*.
* Visual Basic, for those who don’t know, was/is a programming language that was both very bad from a design standpoint and really easy to use. Thus, it was popular with the bottom skill rung of programming talent, and a lot of shitty code was written in Visual Basic over the years. People who came up on a BASIC language often had a really hard time learning “real” languages because their way of abstracting things got all fucked up. It was a horribly designed language, and while Microsoft kind-of corrected these things with .NET, they also made the language considerably more complex.
Anyone who can appreciate such things and has spent time with a well-designed language such as Python develops a contempt fairly quickly for PHP.
http://undercoverblackman.vox.com/library/audio/6a00cd970f81104cd500d09e662b32be2b.html
I wrote a little PHP thingy to force troll nyms based on IP addresses but can’t test it… Anyone with wordpress installed want to play with it?
Simba – neener!
I wrote a little PHP thingy to force troll nyms based on IP addresses but can’t test it… Anyone with wordpress installed want to play with it?
Sure, send it here.
If you’re going to make up my arguments as well as your own, then it seems unlikely that we’ll succeed in solving the problem of race in America.
The answer to the earlier question is that Baraka was sanctioned after the 9/11 flap. You asked why he wasn’t, but he was. So there’s that.
What I said rather than the same-as-a-white-person thing abstracted above was that Amiri Baraka is not generally thought about to any great degree. As in, I don’t think about Amiri Baraka.
But since you raise the topic, I do spend a fair amount of time looking at white racist stuff, and see a lot of nasty things said about black people. I’m not dismissing your question but answering it when I say so what, big freaking deal if someone said something naughty, whether years or decades ago like Baraka, or five minutes ago at Stormfront.
Actually, the crowd at Stormfront is more congenial than the one at Free Republic. They’re more relaxed and tolerant of dissent.
There was certainly a time when that sort of thing was seen as edgy, and when radicals were getting hooked up with academic jobs. You seem to believe that it’s still going on. And Karen Finley and her yams are still insulting the American taxpayer, right? That song ‘Cop Killer’ is still causing uproar.
Do you have any familiarity with those names and institutions, or do they just look effective as elements in a case?
I’ll bite.
Um, this one?
Clint, you have mail.
“So it is racist to point out racist black people?”
No, it’s racist to take the words of an individual member of a group and use them to insult the entire group.
It seems to me that liberals vacillate between two arguments: that black racism doesn’t or can’t exist, and when that argument becomes untenable to say that it is justifiable.
It seems to me that you’re full of shit.
[/trollbaiting]
Ok look, The Authentic, there’s also the practical matter of what to do about all the name-switching and promiscuous trolling around here.
We don’t like to ban or moderate anyone here, but the problem has been getting so acute that people are getting bored and drifting off.
What do you think would be the best way to handle it?
What do you think would be the best way to handle it?
I’m betting he’ll suggest segregation.
I will volunteer to eat his branes.
They will taste horrible and poisonous, of course, but will only amount to a bite or two so I am willing to take that one for the team.
Sounds reasonable.
The number of posts is pretty high; maybe just pick one fight at at time.
Re: the poet laureate of New Jersey business. Amini Baraka was removed as the poet laureate of NJ in 2001 because of — get this — a racist poem he wrote. In fact, McGreevey nuked the entire poet laureate position to get rid of him. At least call him “ex-poet laureate of New Jersey”, since we haven’t had one for eight years now.
Yeah, I mean, there are times that demand more robust trolling, and good trolls are genuinely hard to find. It’s just been really overboard lately with up to three or four different people operating at once.
Too damn good. The paragraphs on MFK Fisher, I mean. And the climax. Jammie doesn’t really deserve commentary like this. But then I’m not sure if any of the creatures in your menagerie does.
Well, you lose. I wasn’t back at 6:20/
Extremist radical anti-Christian, anti-American firebrand welfare king writes black racist screed in today’s NYT.
It’d be nice if they were funny or interesting though.
The implementation is rarely better than the idea. Plus, Edroso’s got his own blog; comment boxes are strictly for us third-stringers.
Authentic, I’m afraid I’ve seen this film before. You appear intelligent enough to comprehend and respond to the actual points in my posts, yet you choose not to. I hate to break it to you, but you’re not the Great Awakener, and you’re not going to proselytize anyone here, and it has nothing to do with the unexamined “hypocrisy” you see in all of them. You won’t even accept the light shining back on you enough to answer a couple simple questions; how do you expect anyone of intelligence to respect your Grand Inquisitor posturing?
As for your stated response to my last post:
1. The words “in part” are fairly critical in my post. Read carefully before you respond, else you’ll be perceived as making things up so they suit your prefab comment.
2. You use the words “always” and “all” an awful lot in your statements. Doesn’t make your thoughts about race relations seem very nuanced. I wonder if that’s by accident, or if you’re really that intentionally absolutist. In any event, it doesn’t give you much credibility when discussing a complex human relations issue to state everything in categoricals.
3. Your proffered evidence is nothing of the sort. It’s three examples of where you think black racism may exist and nothing more. Recall what the original statement is, then walk us through the logic necessary to come to that conclusion. Basically, you’ve given us “well, they call us crackers in the “Friday” movies and get away with it.” Not equal to “it is immediately evident black people engage in racism far more than white people.” What on Earth makes you think this is in the least bit persuasive?
4. You do recognize that most of the decisions of “discrimination” you decry in university hiring settings are made and carried out by white people, right? Is there anything other than the predictible “white guilt” response?
5. Are you unaware, or just unwilling to acknowledge, the distinction between “crime” and “racially motivated crime?” I’ve already offered a perfectly reasonable explanation for your cherished black-on-white crime figures (to which you haven’t provided any actual citation) – your choosing to ignore it doesn’t mean you’ve won the point.
6. For the last time, there are at least a dozen posts in this thread now that point to things you’ve said that people believe to be racist. Regardless, even if there weren’t, I’m curious as to how you think whether you personally have said something racist has anything to do with white people as a whole. Rather unimpressive sample size, there.
7. My “earlier comments that being white is a prima facia case for being racist?” Ruh-roh. Someone’s in fantasy land. I won’t attempt to recreate the twisted logic that got you there.
You have very refined skills in the areas of obfuscation, deflection, asserting false premises authoritatively without looking back, and willfully ignoring the obvious. I’m sure those get you far when unchallenged. You appear totally uninterested in self-reflection or answering your own rigged questions, however, and refuse to engage when called on your tactics. I’m afraid I’m done with this conversation, but thank you for the experience. It’s been interersting, even illuminating, for me, though not in the way you I imagine you’ve intended.
So it is racist to point out racist black people?
Nope.
But it is racist to fixate on it the way you have, pal.
A huge percentage of crime is black-on-white, and there are official anti-white policies in university admissions and hiring practices.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So policies that promote a minority are suddenly “anti-majority”????
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
By the way, Autistic, you keep posting that “black on white” thing. Boy, are you going to be eating carpet.
I mean, crow…
“Or (as I am beginning to suspect) are you just not following this thread?”
He’s not following the thread, Dr. Von Braun; he thinks you’re a reprehensible dipshit and enjoys calling you names. He’s right to the extent that you keep coming back for more, thinking you’re scoring some sort of points. If it will make you fuck off about some other topic, allow me to state here, categorically and generally speaking for all liberals past, present and future across the universe that we hates de white man; black racism is a greater good unto itself; Marx, Che Guevara, Malcom X and Ho Chi Minh should be on Mount Rushmore and evolution really IS a plot to brainwash good American children into becoming homosexuals. Can you go now?