Obama already focused an ad on McCain campaigning to privatize social security … see http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/election_central_morning_round_163.php

That would have made Enron look like someone left a $20 in their back pocket of their jeans when they went to the laundromat.

But the pension fund was just sitting there…

Speaking of Enron, the book I mentioned late in the previous thread, United States v. George W. Bush et al.
, has a very interesting perspective on impeachment. Since the Constitution is so vague about “high crimes and misdemeanors”, there are many interpretations of what that means. De la Vega’s portrayal of an impeachment trial mirrors Enron and other cases and portrays Bush et al as having “violated Title 18, United States Code Section 371, which prohibits conspiracies to defraud the United States.”

Basically, de la Vega’s argument is that you don’t have to prove that they actually lied, but simply the fact that they were making misleading and in many cases false statements, violates their responsibilities as public servants.

At trial, former Enron CEOs Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling claimed they were not responsible for the deception because they had no idea what their underlings were doing. As the jury was instructed, however, anyone who makes representations intending that the public will rely on them, has an affirmative obligation to make sure that they are true and accurate. Representations made with reckless indifference to their truth are as false as outright lies.

Sounds like the Busy/Cheney/Palin/McCain attitude to all forms of governance.

The fact is it is very painful for us heartland Reagan small government conservatives to watch our country stumble into socialism even tho we know it is the best for you plebes. We hate Ikea furniture. Fortunately, we are all rich.

Enjoy your inflation, plebes.

PS: “A Different Jake H” is a boring drone and possibly a paultard.
HTH, HAND.

In the case of these economic crises, it’s very much like Enron (and The Smartest Guys in the Room is another great book / documentary) where the financial manipulations got so complicated that the principals were able to push the problems outside the realm of their understanding, to where they would presumably not exist any more.

Instead of saying, oh, this is too complicated, maybe we should think this through properly and figure out WTF we’re actually selling and/or buying and/or loaning here, and make sure we are covered if things go south, they go into full faith-based action. Shoot from the gut, to mangle a metaphor.

Confidential to T.W akay: You wouldn’t be SIGUSR1 by any chance?

Off topic but eleventy kinds of funny: No Heroics

D.A. the Obama marketing department needs you. Seriously. Why haven’t they mentioned this?

Luckily, Nancy Pelosi and the Dems led the Congressional charge in kiboshing that insanity back in 2005. Go ahead and make mention of that little fact on the campaign trail, Obama. You too, Biden.

Yeah, and go on about universal medical care too, cuz that’s kinda fucked now too.
We just bought all the crap mortgages and all the crap insurance, why not just…

okay, here’s an idea, sell out to the Chinks, not like they don’t own it all already and seriously, you ever seen how those people manage a Chinatown? Damn site better than puffy white dudes can.

Michelle Malkin can blow png png blls t hr gnt vcs s.

Confidential to T.W akay: You wouldn’t be SIGUSR1 by any chance?

Confidential to Jake H: You wouldn’t be in your 20s just finally paying attention would you?
I’d hate to think that about you.

But, if not, carry on with rehashing stuff everyone already knows. Surely there are people reading who are less knowledgeable than you.

Say, ever read any Chompsky?

In the category of, “Things We Already Knew, But It’s Always Nice To Have Validation.“

I found this interesting (but not very funny).

Is Financial Innovation just another word for excessive and reckless leverage?

Apparently so.

As we learn this morning via Julie Satow of the NY Sun, special exemptions from the SEC are in large part responsible for the huge build up in financial sector leverage over the past 4 years — as well as the massive current unwind

Satow interviews the above quoted former SEC director, and he spits out the blunt truth: The current excess leverage now unwinding was the result of a purposeful SEC exemption given to five firms.

You read that right — the events of the past year are not a mere accident, but are the results of a conscious and willful SEC decision to allow these firms to legally violate existing net capital rules that, in the past 30 years, had limited broker dealers debt-to-net capital ratio to 12-to-1.

Instead, the 2004 exemption — given only to 5 firms — allowed them to lever up 30 and even 40 to 1.

Who were the five that received this special exemption? You won’t be surprised to learn that they were Goldman, Merrill, Lehman, Bear Stearns, and Morgan Stanley.

The fact is, this is all liberal’s fault.

Another issue that the Obama camp needs to counter is Palin’s claim that the $40 billion natgas pipeline deal she finagled was “to get our (Alaska’s) clean, green natural gas down to hungry markets like here in Wisconsin.”

Problem: It doesn’t. The TransCanada pipeline ends in Alberta in the midst of the tar sands oil extraction operation. No part of it even connects to the lower 48. It’s primary purpose is to reduce the cost of the huge volume of natgas required for extraction – something like twice what every home/business in the lower 48 would use annually for heating.

Meanwhile, Kindasleezy is again farting in the general direction of Russia because, apparently, they won’t allow Payless BOGO sales. Oh, and because of that Georgia thing.

Distractions, distractions! (sigh)

I’d be shocked if the Obama camp didn’t already have the privatize social security ad ready to roll. Nothing against the mental acumen of my fellow, but more senior, citizens, but this is the kind of ad you drop in the last two weeks and run through election day, especially in FL less it be forgotten by election day.

According to the The Buzz (St. Petersburg Times), the privatization of social security ad is currently running in West Palm Beach. I’m sure there will be others.

It has been my feeling that, Republicans being sooooooo predictable for the most part, that a number of ad storyboards have been sitting around ready to go.

Of course, there’s always the “I didn’t expect them to be that stupid!” possibility, as in McCain’s VP pick, but generally they say the same things every four years, and it’s about time the Democrats figured out how to counter it.

I used to think it was dangerously amusing how Wall Street pulled all these scams and they and their worshiper referred to each scheme as though it were a new invention in financial technology, as if coming up with some derivatives scheme was like a new microprocessor design.

Now, everyone thinks it. But, since they’re getting ready to be bailed out without apparently rolling back the cra-zee deregulation, they’ll do it all again. Hee hee!

Sun rises in east, water wet, David Brooks an idiot:

In the first place, the idea that our problems stem from light regulation and could be solved by more regulation doesn’t fit all the facts. The current financial crisis is centered around highly regulated investment banks, while lightly regulated hedge funds are not doing so badly. Two of the biggest miscreants were Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which, in theory, “were probably the world’s most heavily supervised financial institutions,” according to Jonathan Kay of The Financial Times.

Nice game if you can get someone to pay for it.

It doesn’t matter how regulated your institution is if the risky transactions in question are completely unregulated.

The right wing flying monkey brigades have gotten their marching & flying orders: blame the current sub-prime-based crisis on Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac! Disperse! Go forth! Pollute the thoughtways!

So the lesson from this is clear: casinos should relocate in hospitals, and then when communities complain about the casinos, the casino owners should respond that, well, we need hospitals, and look at all the great things hospitals do.

Have the wingnuts noticed that if they don’t understand what is going on, that vaunted “someone just like them” that they are so eager to vote for wouldn’t have a clue about it either?

I think I see a flaw in this plan.

The problem with the world is that the world’s problems need to be taken care of by people who understand what our problems are, not all the problems all around the world.

The right wing flying monkey brigades have gotten their marching & flying orders: blame the current sub-prime-based crisis on Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac! Disperse! Go forth! Pollute the thoughtways!

El Cid, it fits in nicely with the narrative about the liberals making the banks lend to poor people who couldn’t pay their loans off.

Hey! Ignore those credit swaps, mortgage backed securitizations, and other financial innovations that actually built the real estate bubble. And those little republican men behind the curtains.

The fact is, this is all liberal’s fault.

Which one? Point him/her out and we’ll all go kick his/her ass!

I hope he bludgeons the old man with this in the debates.

Anybody listen to This American Life this week? They had a timely segment about the SEC chairman’s curious lack of interest in regulating dicey financial schemes.
http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=363

I’ll have you know that for five and a half years, the closest John McCain got to a bottle of Coke was when his sadistic captors used to beat him with one. Coca Cola is something that McCain and many other brave servicemen made deep sacrifices for, and denying our children access to well-branded carbonated sugar syrup is exactly the same as attacking the troops.

Whoops wrong thread. Too early. Must get some coffee and pour it on my Apple Jacks.

I’d be shocked if the Obama camp didn’t already have the privatize social security ad ready to roll. Nothing against the mental acumen of my fellow, but more senior, citizens, but this is the kind of ad you drop in the last two weeks and run through election day, especially in FL less it be forgotten by election day.

I don’t see why need to sit on this, though. You can talk about it now AND run such an ad for the two-week runup to election day.

And I’m specifically talking about the accomplishment of STOPPING the privatization of social security, not McCain’s future plans to privatize it. It’s a real accomplishment for the Dems during the Bush years and it needs to be brought to the electorate’s attention, since many are certainly open to change away from Bush-style governance but maybe don’t know that the change agents have an actual track record of win on this issue.

You know, even when the polls were up, McCain never looked or acted like a winner.

He looks like a guy with a drugless colonoscopy scheduled for early November, and it’s all he can think about.

Luckily, Nancy Pelosi and the Dems led the Congressional charge in kiboshing that insanity back in 2005. Go ahead and make mention of that little fact on the campaign trail, Obama. You too, Biden.

That’s funny. Nancy and the Dems are scrambling to get behind the government takeover of the debt of the entire financial sector, just like the Republi-scum.

The economic issue just died for both sides. We’re now committed to economic Armageddon.

“Enjoy your inflation, plebes.”

You dumbfuck. You don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Decrease in credit, plus decrease in M3, plus demand destruction in commodities = DEflation, you bonehead.

Can’t you even troll right?

As the jury was instructed, however, anyone who makes representations intending that the public will rely on them, has an affirmative obligation to make sure that they are true and accurate. Representations made with reckless indifference to their truth are as false as outright lies.

Jury, will you marry me?

Ummmm … ifthethunder,

Let’s look at the actual chain of events shall we? Fannie and Freddie (throught US gov’t) want more Americans to own homes and decide to guarantee just about anything. Bankers lend to people with full knowlege that they do not quality but don’t care because they have implicit backing of federal gov’t. Wall Street comes up with innovative vehicles such as securitization to attempt to shield itself from inevitable disaster. None of this shit would have happened if the gov’t had not intervened. Is that clear enough?

I think Biden needs to start floating the SS bit, coupled with the surrogates on the bobble-head shows. At the first debate next Friday, Barack can then use it the beat the old man about the head and shoulders – in perpetuity.

Also, Bill will be ready to play by September 26. I can think of no one better to go out to Fla., OH, Pa., and Mich. to talk about social security.

Wall Street comes up with innovative vehicles such as securitization to attempt to shield itself from inevitable disaster.

More like “to attempt to pass the risk off on some other sucker while not really knowing what the risk was.”

Also, private lenders led the way on subprime mortgages. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did eventually get drawn into that market, but the real problem was private lenders – without government backing – decided to lend to anyone with a pulse on the assumption that real estate values would continue to rise forever. When the market for real estate began to dry up, that assumption was proven false, and (thanks to mortgage-backed securities that disguised the risk) nobody knew (or, indeed, knows today) who was going to get stuck with the bill.

“None of this shit would have happened” if private lenders hadn’t knowingly made loans to bad credit risks in the name of making more profits for their investment-bank operations by selling mortgage-backed securities, which were always overvalued because their risk of default was always disguised or ignored. Nobody held a gun to the head of the guys a Countrywide and forced them to make subprime loans; they did it for the money.

Whoops wrong thread. Too early. Must get some coffee and pour it on my Apple Jacks.

Some America haters may argue, but I that a patriotic reminder of John McPOW’s POW experience is appropriate in any thread.

None of this shit would have happened if the gov’t had not intervened.

Somalia has no government. Why don’t you go trade some stocks there?

None of this shit would have happened if the gov’t had not intervened. Is that clear enough?

Would you like some “nice tries” with your failburger?

Thank you Mo’s! That’s exactly the argument I make to my Libertarian friends. It’s the Libertarian ideal, right there!

a patriotic reminder of John McPOW’s POW experience is appropriate in any thread.

You do realize that for five and a half long years, John McCain’s social security consisted of interrogations and torture. I’d say that during those agonizing years, John McCain earned the right to take social security away from anybody. Also, he invented the Blackberry. I’m sure that’s somehow relevant.

Originally left on GroupNewsBlog on 9/16/2008, & now puked back up again here, For Great Justice:

Greetings to all Patriotic Americans from the newly founded Department of Homeland Economic Security!

The Glorious Corporate-Soviet thanks Americans for doing their part to keep the fundamentals of the economy sound, for the greater glory of the Brand-Name Revolution!

Your Debt-Certificates & 5-Year-Plan Outlines are already in the mail, postage due … with your ongoing generous support, we will triumph in the Majestic Struggle Against Decadent Reality-Based Market-Treason!

All Profit proceeds from the barrel of a Smoking Gun!

The Corporate-Soviet is the New Proletariat of America!

All power to the Benevolent Dictatorship of the New Proletariat!

Bush & Paulson: closet Trotskyites?

If Social Security was in Wall Street there probably wouldn’t have been a crash by now. Lehman would have an extra few hundred billion to play with, after all.

The crash definitely would’ve happened on the next President’s term, which would almost certainly have been a Democrat, and the Republicans would have all stood up at the same time and blamed that President.

Wall Street comes up with innovative vehicles such as securitization to attempt to shield itself from inevitable disaster.

Wrong, they do it to pass off risk from one party to the other like a hot potato. And actually securitization made this situation much worse. Had there been no securitization, people would’ve lost their homes, and the banks that mortgaged those houses might’ve gone bust. But we know how to deal with failed banks and bankrupt people. The construction industry would’ve imploded just as it did but that is part of an economic cycle.

But since every fucking finance company in this country owned all of these mortgages in the form of cash flows, they were hit and hit hard. If the mortgages weren’t sliced up and passed around they wouldn’t have had to deal with it. Paulson’s earlier comments about the housing problems being “contained” would’ve been dead on accurate. The fact that it wasn’t is the fault of these companies, not the government. These companies forgot how to manage risk and Captains of Finance forgot the lessons they learned when their daddy got them their first bank account when they were 11 years old – know what you are spending your money on.

Asshole.

I’ll send a hearty thanks to Mo’s as well. That was my stock answer to dipshits like that for a long time. I think I’ll dust it off and bring it back. Seems to me it’s got mileage left.

Ooh, Somalia. Some of the crazier libertarians actually thought it was a great place (but they didn’t seem to be in any hurry to move their).

My first exposure to anarcho-capitalism was when I noticed the weird POV being pushed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Somalia&oldid=91036778#Economy

(scroll down for more crazy economy stuff that’s been mistakenly added to the Health section). There’s a little bit about this still on the current discussion page (which is where I learned the POV being pushed was called anarcho-capitalism)

Apparently, Somalia was a kritarchy or a kritocracy. I can’t remember which is which. One is a libertarian paradise of freedom where religious judges hand out sunshine and flowers. The other is a hell hole of oppression where religious judges act like the Taliban. Libertarian fans of Somalia thought it was the good one up until the 2006 civil war, when it turned out it had been the bad one all along.

Actually, Drills and Moe Swollen: Somalia now kinda sorta has a “government”-the kind of government that drops cluster bombs on its own population, because our deal ol’ Uncle Sam decided to do some War on Terra by encouraging the lovely klpetocratic tyranny next door, Ethiopia, to invade with our air support, intelligence, and munitions supplies. So…we’ve created yet another humanitarian disaster and a fine example of yet more future blowback .

Dang it, having trouble with the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Somalia&oldid=91036778

(read the Economy and Health sections).

Some of the crazier libertarians actually like Somalia, but don’t seem in any hurry to move there. I first heard of anarcho-capitalism when I noticed the weird POV being pushed in the above version of the Somalia wikipedia article. Apparently, Somalia was a kritarchy or a kritocracy. I forget which is which, but one is a paradise of libertarian freedom ruled by religious judges who hand out sunshine and flowers. The other is a hell hole of oppression where religious judges act like the Taliban. Anarcho-caps thought Somalia was the good one up until the 2006 civil war when it turned out to have been the bad one all along.

Well drat, I can’t get the link to post, but if anybody can be bothered, go look at a version of the Wikipedia entry for Somalia from late November 2006. Read the Economy and Health sections.

Strong POV pushing from the kind of libertarians (anarcho-capitalists)who think Somalia is a great place but haven’t gotten around to moving there yet themselves. I first discovered the wonderful loopiness of anarcho-capitalism when I came across the wikipedia article.

Apparently, Somalia was a kritarchy or a kritocracy. I forget which is which, but one is a paradise of libertarian freedom ruled by religious judges who hand out sunshine and flowers. The other is a hell hole of oppression where religious judges act like the Taliban. Anarcho-caps thought Somalia was the good one up until the 2006 civil war when it turned out to have been the bad one all along.

A couple choice quotes from the old Somalia article:

“Private security firms helped businessmen protect their investments and property”

“investors are feeling more comfortable lately; for example, a Coca-Cola bottling plant opened in Mogadishu in 2004”

“Wireless communications has also become a giant economic force in Somalia. Because of the war, nobody really knows the size of the economy or how much it is growing.”

Gee, sounds like everything is great there. You can get coke and a cell phone. Private security firms are awesome. I’m envisioning the relationship between businesspeople and security firms beginning something like this: “Nice store you got there, be a shame if anything happened to it”

Speaking of SSI, it should be noted that never did Bush Co mention the fact that the dollar for dollar matching money the Employer contributes to the SSI fund would have been eliminated.

I hate to say this but I disagree. Privatizing SS might have helped if you assume that, in the end, the people who need SS most are going to end up paying for the Shitpile Bailout. If all of our SS accounts were tanking right now, we’d see upfront that we are paying for it and Bush and Co might end up dealing with a, say, 10 million person march on DC to, oh, leave a temple mound of shit at the WH gate. Also, I’m pissed that the MSM is getting away with not using Shitpile since, doh, that’s the word for it.

CNN main story? The 19th century ship carcass that washed up, again, at Ft. Morgan, AL. Goodness. And the Shitpile? The little Shitpile story is “Where Things Stand in the Big Bailout”. Need any frame with that?

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