Trashing people who have no real power = political courage

This is interesting:

Yet, with just a few words, Mr. Clinton’s “Sister Souljah moment” showed that he was willing to take on the party’s sacred cows and speak candidly to even the most entrenched party constituencies. The effect was palpable; in the words of one Philadelphia working-class voter, “the day he told off” Jesse Jackson “is the day he got my vote.”

(Indeed, just yesterday, Barack Obama had his own mini- “Souljah moment” as he decried the epidemic of fatherlessness and illegitimacy among black Americans. While it is a message that Mr. Obama has voiced before to other black audiences, speaking unpleasant truths about issues afflicting the black community may provide political benefit for a candidate whom some working-class white voters are suspicious of — just as it did for Clinton 16 years ago.)

It’s amazing but true: if you’re a politician in this country, attacking obscure rappers and deadbeat fathers is seen as a symbol of political courage.

This isn’t an endorsement of deadbeat fathers, by the way; I’ll leave those sorts of shenanigans to Dr. Mrs. Ole Perfesser. I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.

 

Comments: 114

 
 
 

I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.

Look at how profitable BOMBING people like that is. (As long as they live in other countries, of course.)

Not that the NYT would approve of bombing poor brown people who don’t worship the right FSM.

 
 

..although I must say I’ve had a hard time squaring the reports about Obama “decrying black fathers” with listening to what he actually said. Maybe I’m just not hearing it the same…

 
 

I don’t know about you, but I always follow the Flavor Flav voting guide.

 
 

I think it’s fair to say that the term “Sister Souljah moment” , as far as politics goes, has become a term like “proactive” and “self-actualized” which have become overused to the point of meaninglessness, but is implemented by people so ignorant they will say anything to sound like they have some sort of clue what they are talking about.

 
 

Bloggers should be put in jail until they stop bloggering.

 
 

Me, I’m trying to figure out how Obama addressing a problem in his community is equal to a white politician attacking a more or less random black musician to show how Clinton wouldn’t have helped Willie Horton scare whitey.

 
 

It’s the bitch’s fault.

 
 

We don’t exist, you know.

 
Leon Trotsky, Exile-in-Mexico
 

Let’s take a gander at this article.

“The greatest thing Bill Clinton ever did for the Democrats was to betray their loyal special-interests to target Republicans scared of the darkies.”

I mean, I don’t know, maybe Michael Cohen is a clever and wise man, but he basically sounds like he thinks the best thing Obama could do is to look like a triangulating center-right Republican moderate like that woman the Republicans wanted to run for President, and for McCain to then decry his special interests, lure a bunch of idiots in the Democratic party so he can latter fuck them over for his special interests.

Frankly, I don’t like the sound of it.

 
 

I dunno, I haven’t seen the whole speech, but the bits I saw from the Chicago newspaper didn’t play up that angle much at all. Obama spoke about personal responsibility of fathers, but it was Father’s Day after all, and so it’s not a meme he’s deliberately pushing (yet, anyway.) He talked about a lot of other subjects too. I think Cohen is walking away with too big of an impression of one facet of the speech. What I read of Obama’s remarks didn’t seem to be nearly as controversial as Bill Cosby’s incessant punditry on the subject.

It was certainly no “Sistah Soldiah” moment. Barrack’s already had that – his denouncement of Wright’s speeches.

 
 

What I like is the bizarre implication that deadbeat dads are a “black” problem. Ever been to a trailer park in Sabbatus, Maine ?

 
 

I’m waiting for a “Chuck D” moment in American politics.

breaking north, like…

 
 

Not to get all sociological on y’all, but most deadbeat dads are deadbeat dads because their dads were deadbeat dads and their dads were deadbeat dads. If you scratch a deadbeat dad you’ll often find a guy who is still pretty fucked up about his dad not being around. Not all the time, but quite often in my experience.

 
Leon Trotsky, Exile-in-Mexico
 

Douglas Watts:

Pfft, everyone knows sociology and psychology is hokum! Deadbeat dads are deadbeat because they’re evil and morally destitute. And possibly communists.

 
 

I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.

Hi! We’re Palestinians!

 
 

Pfft, everyone knows sociology and psychology is hokum! Deadbeat dads are deadbeat because they’re evil and morally destitute. And possibly communists.

And definitely black.

 
 

Completely OT… but the next time that our hosts create a ‘Shorter’, and the readers call them a pack of pedantic pillocks for including the scholarly attribution to D. Davies (because everyone understands the Shorter convention and its origins by now), then they can claim vindication in this thread where someone abjectly fails to grasp the concept. Hilarity ensues.

 
 

Personally, I object to the abuse of cows, sacred or otherwise. Be nice to the cows!

 
disinterested observer
 

Smut Clyde’s link is très intéressant as they say over in my part of the world, but the source is even more interesting – http://neoneocon.com/2008/06/16/hey-whitey-dont-be-insulted/

This looks like a group of people who should be subjected to regular scrutiny from Sadly No’s highly paid expert staff.

My favourite comment over there: “The fact that our universities are teaching nonsense like that (gender studies, I think) to people like Michelle Obama is the reason jobs are being shipped overseas.”

 
 

I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.
Hi! We’re Palestinians!

Seriously. Or Jews, Gypsies, gays, Native Americans, women, the poor, Communists (in the West), blacks…

It’s not my favorite phenomenon, but when has it not been profitable?

 
 

Snort

I am aware of all internet traditions

Smut, I’m so very happy that my mouth was empty while reading that.

 
 

When Bill Clinton denounced Sistah Souljah, the first thing I did was seek out some of her music. I wasn’t impressed.

I wish he would have instead denounced Paris, so I could have been introduced to his stuff a lot sooner.

Personally, I’d like to see Obama offer up a firm denouncement of the current batch of gangsta rappers – qualifying his harsh words with, “these suckers will never be as good as Wu Tang or the Geto Boys”.

 
Leon Trotsky, Exile-in-Mexico
 

If Obama has to denounce the current crop of ‘gangsta rappers’ for something, can he do it because the motherfuckers aren’t gangsta anymore?

I swear to God, if I see one more rapper with a necklace or bracelet worth more than the GNP of their original cities, singing about a street life most of them haven’t seen a speck of since they got signed, I’m gonna scream.

 
 

Take a look at Steve O’Hearn’s blog at the National Press Club. Man O man it’s getting ugly. Steve just can’t understand why anyone would object to Larry Sinclair speaking at the NPC. Even Jeff Gannon makes an appearance in the comments:

Let’s see, the speech police of the Left are deciding who can avail themselves of First Amendment freedoms and who should “shut up.”

 
 

disinterested o, I can top you:

I found it shocking that such scholastic mediocrity can be so rewarded by an Ivy League school. It appeared to be the psychological Rhorshark results of a sophisticated, yet out-of-control psyche.

Beware the Rhor Shark!

 
One who is aware of all Internet Traditions
 

I seriously doubt that Chuck Norris is capable of sneezing with his eyes open.

Before making claims to anyone’s “base” (whatever that may be), please make sure your claim to said base is grammatically correct. “All your base are belong to us” sounds like it belongs in a poorly-translated Japanese video game, not in a serious discussion about Internet Traditions.

And why on earth would a cat want a “cheezburger”[sic]?

23 Skidoo, suckers.

 
 

Laugh out Loud.

 
 

Take a look at Steve O’Hearn’s blog at the National Press Club. Man O man it’s getting ugly. Steve just can’t understand why anyone would object to Larry Sinclair speaking at the NPC. Even Jeff Gannon makes an appearance in the comments:

There’s some rich stuff in the comments over there. My favorite thus far comes from Patty:

BONGOMAN……..Your name speaks a million words!!

Actually, I think it speaks only four words in Patty’s mind: Bongoman is probably black.

 
 

noen, please refrain from using incomplete sentences, the correct usage is “I’m laughing out loud”.
The phrase “laugh out loud” is just a sentence fragment, and thus could never be an internet tradition.

Also, please refrain from using acronyms.

 
 

There is only one internet. Why do you people keep referring to “teh (sic) internets”?

Also, I’m pretty sure that Leon Trotsky is dead.

 
Michael Harrington
 

So, does Obama have to have a Rickey Ray Rector moment like Clinton did, too? Can he just pop any random guy on the street, or would taking pom pons to the next execution suffice?

These unwritten rules are so damned tricky…

 
Michael Harrington
 

In re the late Mr. Davidovich: If he wasn’t, having Kristol and Perle claim descent from him would surely kill him with shame.

 
This is a Fox News­™ Breaking Report on Internet Traditions
 

What is the media saying about these random characters being inserted into internet messages? Are they “smileys”? Emoticons? Or secret messages to terrorists?

Granted, if you tilt your head to the left, a colon and a parenthesis does slightly resemble a smiley face, but from any angle, it also resembles an overhead view of the Twin Towers flanked by an Islamofascist crescent moon.

Some people are saying it’s time to crack down on these coded messages.

 
 

Michael Harrington:

I’d rather he had a Rudy Ray Moore moment, myself.

 
 

Moo motherfucker.

 
 

If you read the cited NYT blog post carefully, the writer seems to be under the impression that such anti-base courage by Bill Clinton strengthened the party.

In reality, just 2 years after the awesome, doubleplus great good 1992 “Sister Souljah” moment, the Democrats went on to lose Congress from 1994 – 2006 along with the entire national agenda, accompanied by huge losses of state & local governments, which led directly to the Clinton impeachment and the Bush Jr. triumvirate.

So, um, maybe the “Sister Souljah” moment was what that writer wanted to see, but it’s hardly some high water mark for Democratic Party ascendancy

What you’re reading is the pure, factually unpolluted stream of non-consciousness from the collective establishment news media mind — the ones whose advice, when followed, tends to lead to such disasters for liberalism & the nation.

I don’t think that Obama’s speech on fatherhood — given also that it was given in an African American church on Father’s Day — was anything at all like a “Sister Souljah” moment except for freakishly anti-developed minds like the quoted writer.

 
 

Me, I’m trying to figure out how Obama addressing a problem in his community is equal to a white politician attacking a more or less random black musician to show how Clinton wouldn’t have helped Willie Horton scare whitey.

Exactly a different brad

 
 

I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.

I find it quite hard to understand how our pundits, who wield significant political and economic clout, are ready to cheer on any politician with the audacity to come down on those who do not. Of course, if you say that maybe the rich maybe should possibly pay something approaching their fair share of taxes, you’re guilty of class warfare, nay, class terrorism!

 
 

Whoa.
1. Read the entire speech, he didn’t just go after African-Americans or poor African-Americans.
2. Read up on the effects of “deadbeat parents.” They have an enormous economic/sociological/political impact.
3. Given the high numbers of WATBs in this country, telling people “Hey, take responsibility for your actions,” is an act of political courage.

 
Dragon-King Wangchuck
 

Also love the implication that deadbeat dad who takes a dump on their family is somehow an entrenched Democratic constituency. Because as we all know Republicans treat their families really well.

 
 

Stop defiling the traditions of the series of tubes!

 
 

i watched the whole thing and he didn’t call anyone a trollop. And he praised up single mothers. he said deadbeat dads were a problem everywhere and too much of a problem in the black community.
Racist. Racist AND Sexist. Unfit to be POTUS.

 
 

It’s amazing but true: if you’re a politician in this country, attacking obscure rappers and deadbeat fathers is seen as a symbol of political courage.

This isn’t an endorsement of deadbeat fathers, by the way; I’ll leave those sorts of shenanigans to Dr. Mrs. Ole Perfesser. I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.

Deadbeat fathers have a hell of a lot more economic clout than the families they abandoned.

Is that too difficult to grasp? Jesus….

 
 

If you scratch a deadbeat dad you’ll often find a guy who is still pretty fucked up about his dad not being around.

Well, yeah, but some mope in a trailer park who can’t figure out how to provide the parental nuturing he never knew & can’t afford to buy substitutes for such nurturing is a threat to Western Civilization. On the other hand, a rich man’s son who’s too busy polishing his political resume (ambassador to China, CIA head, VPOTUS) to notice that his *own* eldest kid is “progressing” from torturing frogs to torturing fellow frat members to torturing whole nations… *that* man is a Very Serious Person, and one can’t expect Serious People to waste their beautiful minds on babysitting detail, eh?

 
 

Off topic but of pressing concern.

Man arrested for mooning his wife

By Karen Voyles
Sun staff writer

Published: Monday, June 16, 2008 at 1:29 p.m.
Last Modified: Monday, June 16, 2008 at 1:29 p.m.

A Gainesville man was arrested for mooning his wife during an argument in the downtown parking garage early Sunday morning.

The 24-year-old was charged with violating a Gainesville ordinance prohibiting public nudity which includes exposing “full natal cleavage.”

Arresting officer Courtnay Roberts was patrolling the downtown parking garage at 12:50 a.m. Sunday when he heard an argument and saw a man pull down his pants to expose his entire buttocks to a woman.

Roberts later determined the man and woman were married and had been arguing following an evening of drinking.

I blame the Muslims who are the power behind the Dearborn city council, for if you control one city council, you control them all.

It is a sad day for the Republic when an Islamofascist terrorist can file a writ of habeas corpus but a man can’t moon his wife in a parking lot.

 
 

Would that be the same as a pressed ham?

 
 

full natal cleavage

Ah yes, the rarely seen sequel to Full Metal Jacket. I can see where showing that without copyright compensation might get one into hot water.

 
 

If you scratch a deadbeat dad you’ll often find a guy who is still pretty fucked up about his dad not being around.

I firmly believe that one of the best things that a person can do in this world is to not have children. I’m not saying it’s always bad to have children, just that far, far too many do and should not. There should be some sort of tax benefit for not procreating.

 
 

There are so many variations on the theme of deadbeat/absent parent (not the same thing). Is it better to have a dad who lays on the couch in a drunken stupor while mom goes to work? How about a dad who is fun and groovy and takes you cool places but never coughs up a penny for child support? How about a dad who works all the time, pays for your upkeep but never ever talks to you? Let’s not even get into the 31 flavors of abuse.

There are so many ways a parent can fuck up that I think the vast majority of people who have kids could claim their fuck ups were learned by example. To which I say: Tough shit. Get over it.

Maybe if society stopped sending out fucked up messages (“Egads! Single mom, stone her!” “Oh, you don’t want to waste money on your kid? No worries.”) and setting low bars for kids from single parents families? Let people know that if they have a kid and skip off (and yes, women do it too) they’ll be hunted down and shaken over a bucket until money to care for the child falls out. Oh, and I guess it helps if people know where babies come from before they’re old enough make them.

Yes I’m rambling. I just can’t believe we’re still having a national debate over whether personal responsibility is a good thing or not.

 
 

I just can’t believe we’re still having a national debate over whether personal responsibility is a good thing or not.

After eight years of Republican rule? With the its-not-my-fault Kristols, Brooks, Goldbergs and Norquists given lavish sums of money to promote their (lack of) values?

I don’t find it surprising in the least.

 
 

ZOMG!!!
A reasonably literate, somewhat principled conservative!
If you had told me in 1992 that I would come to treasure George Will I would have laughed in your face.

 
 

Wrong thread and I’ve been beaten to the punch.

Bugger ‘tawl

(Yes, I do listen to the Smiths)

 
 

one of the best things that a person can do in this world is to not have children

I agree that it’s one of those things we should do well… or not at all.

 
 

What the fuck is “Bill Clinton’s Sistah Soulja” moment, anyways? Can anyone even explain what the hell that was?

 
 

I agree that it’s one of those things we should do well… or not at all.

Yeah, but the trouble goes beyond deadbeat parents who don’t put enough effort into it. My parents tried to be the best parents ever by sealing us off in a fundie cult like the Texas polygamists. That’s no good. I’ve talked to other kids who grew up in really bizarre hippie commune environments and that can also screw with you. Then you see the “my child will only ever eat organic foods from Whole Foods and never be exposed to the filthy breath of the poor” types.

If you have serious doubts about your ability to raise children, you probably shouldn’t; if you think you can do better than anyone else, you also probably shouldn’t. Damned if I know where the middle is.

 
 

pedestrian: 1 man-made pearl found in a fountain of manure from George F. Will does not a “treasure” make.

 
 

I dunno Brad, I think it’s high time somebody had the courage to stand up and say, “I’m against those things that everybody hates!”

Oooh, Neoneocon is an angry ex-liberal. Let’s enjoy the no-doubt uplifting tale of her conversion to neoconnery:

The situation would usually arise in the context of a party or a dinner or some other get-together among friends. I’d be at the table, chatting, joking, having a good time, and someone would bring up politics, the war, Bush—something.

Whenever I did decide to speak up, I tried to be quiet and respectful, and above all simple. I’d start by saying that I’d been a liberal Democrat my whole life (I’m one of you, not one of them, so don’t hate me, please!). I’d say I’d never voted for a Republican in my life (true). Then I’d say, in the mildest of voices, that nevertheless I happened to have come to agree with George Bush on quite a few aspects of his foreign policy.

Boy that sounds familiar. Yet another person driven to madness by the liberal tradition of political dinner parties. Apparently you guys have them all the time, but I’ve never been invited. It hurts, you know.

You guys better start sending me some invitations, before I send a manuscript off to Regnery. I’m just crazy enough to do it.

 
National Dairy Council
 

Every cow is sacred. Every udder is great.

 
 

What the fuck is “Bill Clinton’s Sistah Soulja” moment, anyways? Can anyone even explain what the hell that was?

Here ya go, Doofus.

 
 

I’ve long thought that Sister Souljah was nothing more than a Public Enemy hanger-on. That said, the whole “moment” back in 1992 was based on a misinterpretation of what she said. She could have phrased it better, but she was not advocating what she was accused of advocating. The “Sister Souljah moment” concept has gotten so ingrained in the American political psyche that it’s been divorced from its original context and few seem to remember what that was.

 
 

Boy that sounds familiar. Yet another person driven to madness by the liberal tradition of political dinner parties. Apparently you guys have them all the time, but I’ve never been invited. It hurts, you know.

They are staged events, akin to a murder mystery dinner theater. If you have a closeted Republican friend, I could recommend a great acting troupe.

 
 

Well, to be fair, she’s done quite a bit of activism, so I shouldn’t say “nothing more”.

 
 

It’s a fine example of the subtle racism still evident in ths country that the whole “Sister Souljah” thing is being evoked. Obama’s speech has nothing in common with the Sister Souljah thing – it’s only that he’s black.

 
 

Psh, what would Barack Obama know about absentee fathers? He’s too elitist to know what normal people go through!

 
 

bama’s speech has nothing in common with the Sister Souljah thing – it’s only that he’s black.

Obama’s BLACK?!?!?

 
 

Christopher, I had to stop having my liberal dinner parties because Ann Althouse kept showing up and drinking all the wine while talking about herself. Now we just have keggers in the woods.

 
 

Psh, what would Barack Obama know about absentee fathers? He’s too elitist to know what normal people go through!

SNERK!

 
 

There should be some sort of tax benefit for not procreating.

As a recipient of the Golden Snip, I’m right there with you. In the short term I’d be happy enough just if there were no stigma associated with opting not to have kids.

 
Dragon-King Wangchuck
 

The racist sexist parenthetical graf isn’t the only thing wrong with this piece:

This post has been updated.

Yeah, to about 1982. Perfect opportunity to excise the stupid and unnecessary bracketed shit, but it’s still there. Paid by the word?

Sixteen years ago, the most influential campaign speech of the last two decades was delivered at a hotel ballroom in Washington. It wasn’t broadcast on television and only a few hundred Americans heard it in its entirety. But when presidential candidate Bill Clinton appeared at the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow Coalition on June 13, 1992, and attacked an obscure rapper named Sister Souljah it fundamentally changed the popular perception of the Democratic Party.

The link? To another Times article dated four days ago. One that spent most of it’s time talking about Nixon and Bush. Clinton get one graf and here’s how the most influential campaign speech of the last two decades is described

Mr. Clinton won back some white Democrats who had voted Republican in previous years

How influential was the Sister Souljah moment? Well even though it was a long long time ago, perhaps it had something to do with how well Hillary did with the black vote in this The Great Primary War. Some people are still steamed about it. But nutjobs that dress like robots are clearly crazy, it’s not like there are any serious folks who might think the same thing. Anyways, back in 1992, there certainly was no resentment caused by the Sister Souljah moment.

The biggest effect from the Sister Souljah moment is the effect on political writing, where no campaign is complete without a Sister Souljah moment. Sister Souljah this, Sister Souljah that. In even numbered years Sister Souljah gets more attention than any other musician alive. So maybe Michael A. Cohen thinks that the Sister Souljah moment is the defining moment in the past two decades of American politics, but someone should let him know that it still only affects a few hundred Americans – political writers and campaign strategists and that’s about it.

It’s a real shame about the entire first half of this sorry excuse for writing because the second half, although only pointing out the painfully obvious, presents a view that’s pretty rare in the dreaded emmessemm.

John McCain’s political evolution, or possibly devolution, during the last eight years speaks volumes about the hold of these special interests. During his 2000 race for the Republican nomination, McCain openly derided the religious leaders Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, as agents of intolerance.
Today, he actively seeks the support of such far right religious figures and has delivered a number of major speeches in recent weeks that narrowly appeal to social conservative audiences, on topics from defending religious freedom to attacking activist judges.

It’s not a great article, even if you edit out the crap at the beginning. It’s still got JiSM3’s mavericky goodness and it still portrays anything the Democrats do as inherently wrong unless they are distancing themselves from their base. But it’s far and away better than what we’re used to seeing. I mean c.f. anything from Michael McCain Fluffer Scherer.

 
 

You know what you call it when someone has the courage to attack the powerless? Bullying.

This is a country which, in its heart of hearts, loves a bully. It was a strong factor in 2000 when Preppy-Bully GW Bush “won” the election over Poindexter Gore and even more explicit in GW Bush’s campaign against Kerry.

 
Dragon-King Wangchuck
 

Also Leonard Pierce @ June 17, 2008 at 6:51 shows us why he is the Master.

 
 

“Personal Responsibility” is the new “Geneva Conventions” Quaint, antiquated, a target of derisive humor…

I don’t know about anyone else, but I find that I have a newfound sense of freedom and enpowerment since George W. Bush stole the… er, was elected. I can now do or say anything, and it is now someone else’s fault. It’s just a very sad thing indeed that Irony is dead.

 
 

I say we attack latte-sipping elitists.

 
 

I believe he’s made the same comments before when he wasn’t running for President so political opportunism it may not be. In fact, like his comments when he was at Ebenezer about homophobia and anti-semitism in my community (something that wasn’t going to win him any votes), he may have actually been using his position to say something that needs to be said.

Calling this a “sister souljah” moment is a bit off base. White men attacking black women isn’t the same thing as a black man talking to his own community. What’s unfortunate is that white politicians are so rarely brave enough to take their own community to task.

 
 

I believe he’s made the same comments before when he wasn’t running for President so political opportunism it may not be.

It functions that way for everyone else, plus it’s easy: be good you reprobates! It’s not a policy and it’s not something he can actually do anything about, but it can make people who vote feel he agrees with them.

 
Associated Press
 

Hey, you used more than five words.

You owe us $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

 
 

As a recipient of the Golden Snip, I’m right there with you. In the short term I’d be happy enough just if there were no stigma associated with opting not to have kids.

Wow, Sam, a Nina Paley reference? Have you ever seen her Stork movie? And did you know she is a Cardinal in the the Church of Euthanasia? The church has one commandment, do not procreate. Its four pillars are suicide, abortion, cannibalism and sodomy, represented nicely in this photo montage. I met her not long ago when I went on a date to a liberal elitist party in Manhattan and had to admit to being a breeder which was rather uncomfortable but she was cool about it when I told her I would sin no more. In between latte sipping and sneering at rural folk contests she showed us all a tape of her appearance on the Jerry Springer show where she and the church’s founder, Chris Korda, advocated mass suicide to a less than enthusiastic audience.

 
 

It’s not a policy and it’s not something he can actually do anything about, but it can make people who vote feel he agrees with them.

So … if a legislator introduces legislation that makes child support laws less of a joke and through hard work and pestering the hell out of other legislators the bill gets passed and more people start paying child support (or slapping on a condom so there are no kids to support) and there’s less strain on single parents and they’re less likely to use government assistance which would mean more money for …

You’re right. That couldn’t possibly work.

 
 

So … if a legislator introduces legislation

He’s currently a legislator, so you’re right: he can do something. Has he?

He is, however, running for non-legislative office.

 
 

I am happy to be corrected.

 
Dragon-King Wangchuck
 

I say we attack latte-sipping elitists.

Wait, what about Iran’s nuclear facilities?

 
 

Kinda dickin’ it up a bit, eh Arky?

 
 

Y’know, it seems to me that Arky correcting me can serve as a correction to the post.

 
 

Deadbeat fathers have a hell of a lot more economic clout than the families they abandoned.

Just as the teenaged immigrant mother on dope is the useful stereotype to advance the eradication of the safety net, the well-off Daddy who abandons his kids because he’s pissed at his ex or doesn’t love his kids is also the exception.

Most deadbeats are simply poor and their poverty only became illegal after their marriages and relationships failed.

I suppose one could make an argument against procreation from that, except that most people don’t choose to be poor, don’t expect to remain poor and would not change their desire to be parents because of that.

A better argument would be to promote contraception so that less people would unintentionally become parents, to advance living wages and unionism, to require pending divorcees (and both parents in any case where child support is an issue in the absence of marriage) to attend classes so they will fully understand their responsibilities and how to address them without running afoul of the system or without damaging the kids or each other.

Unfortunately, too many family courts remain punishment-based instead of remedy-based, which is an outgrowth of what the larger society prefers: demonization, villains and victims, instead of actual solutions.

As for Obama, his expression was both personal and political, and was not directed at Blacks alone. Further, his major concern was directed at physical and emotional abandonment.

Sister Souljah (and Ricky Ray Rector) moments were based on political considerations alone.

 
 

Truly courageous. Give that man a medal.

 
 

In the short term I’d be happy enough just if there were no stigma associated with opting not to have kids.

There’s a stigma?

I never even noticed.

What if they had a stigma and nobody was stigmatized?

mikey

 
 

I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.

Why? When I think of words to describe the American character I usually come up with “pragmatic,” “resourceful,” “judgmental,” and “punitive as hell.”

 
 

Most deadbeats are simply poor and their poverty only became illegal after their marriages and relationships failed.

Stats? Links? Anything?

From what I’ve seen you’re um … wrong. The courts are more than willing to look at the absent parent’s finances when determining the amount of support. Where things become illegal (possibly) is when the court sets an amount, the parent agrees and and the parent doesn’t pay and doesn’t pay and doesn’t pay and when (if) he is dragged back into court they have a lame ass excuse that amounts to “I don’t wanna!” Then the judge gets pissed. Sometimes. Sometimes the judge is of the “If she’d been a decent woman he wouldn’t have left,” school of thought and things get ugly.

If it makes you feel any better women do the same thing but please leave the “Society is down on the Str8 dudes,” to Johan Pantload and his pals.

 
 

Then I’d say, in the mildest of voices, that nevertheless I happened to have come to agree with George Bush on quite a few aspects of his foreign policy.

Translation:

Oh dear, the terrifying prospect of those horrible brown terrorists invading America by the hundreds has made me piss myself again. So sorry for the mess.

 
 

I am stealing that right now.

 
 

Me too. Someone works very quickly… (See my dots?)

 
 

Arky: Stats? Links? Anything?

From what I’ve seen you’re um … wrong. The courts are more than willing to look at the absent parent’s finances when determining the amount of support.

Observation. I used to be a welfare assistance worker and simply saw a ton of this stuff. And I started out privately judgmental against the dads. While it’s true that many courts (particularly in the more civilized regions of the country) set fair amounts, a goodly number of the dads never get to the courtroom at all. (Why? Many reasons, but being poor and lacking legal representation, many are simply averse to courtrooms out of fear. Some, I’m sure, just don’t care about their kids nor their responsibilities.)

As a result, support gets ordered by default, sometimes based on what the custodial parent requests and sometimes by what a state child support agency requests and that often reflects nothing similar to what the non-custodial parent’s income is.

I’m well aware of how men’s ‘rights’ group play the game and am not acting as an apologist for their BS. I advocate for classes that help both parents overcome the hurdles of ignorance about the courts, the best interests of the kids, etc. That tends to maintain or create a partnership instead of power struggles rooted in anger, ignorance and/or fear.

 
 

Douglas Watts said,

June 17, 2008 at 6:43

What I like is the bizarre implication that deadbeat dads are a “black” problem. Ever been to a trailer park in Sabbatus, Maine ?

It’s really not that bizarre. For blacks about 70% of births are out of wedlock, while for whites it is like 25%.

 
 

As for Obama, his expression was both personal and political, and was not directed at Blacks alone. Further, his major concern was directed at physical and emotional abandonment.

Sister Souljah (and Ricky Ray Rector) moments were based on political considerations alone.

I luv Obama supporters. Good to know that Obama’s intentions are always pure, unlike those vile Clinton’s.

 
War-Mitzfah War is Tikkun Olam
 

Rap is our national music.

Our Army loves the stuff and rapes Iraqi girls and female reserves while the jungle beasts are blasting. Rap is aural American terrorism: “freedom”. zero political or economic clout

50 cent (or is it siz’ent?) has called our president a “gangsta” in Fortune magazine, zero political or economic clout . This thug gave his props for the subsarahran IQed warlord, all Bush is missing is a spear to chuck. A president who has enveloped the ghetto culture notion of “I gotz mine, fuck ya’lls”. A president who has attacked the middle class YT with impunity. zero political or economic clout

 
 

There’s a stigma?

Here in Utah, there sure is. For women, there’s more of one than there is for men, and it’s more widespread.

 
War-Mitzfah War is Tikkun Olam
 

BushGOP represents. Bush brings the “ghetto” back to where it started, otherwise filthy jews hoarding their precious gold in the run-down slums.
Bush focuses his appreciation on the original gangsta: before the Black, before the Italian, the jew; and with help of his neocon fanclub is helping the jew break out to a whole new level of “legit” through national war.

 
 

Observation. I used to be a welfare assistance worker and simply saw a ton of this stuff.

OK. If that’s the case then your claim: that the dad who can afford to pay CS but doesn’t because he doesn’t wanna is the same as the mythical welfare queen is based on … what exactly? I’m assuming you didn’t have a lot of contact with families that didn’t qualify for welfare.

(Full disclosure, many moons ago I was roped in to do volunteer work for a national child support group and still do a little writing when mom applies the guilt.) Unfortunately once you get beyond the basic demographic: Male, there doesn’t seem to be a predictor of who is more likely to skip out on helping with the bills. Plus, the guys with steady jobs can afford lawyers which just adds an extra layer of nasty to the whole proceeding.

But education, counseling to reduce the need to drag a guy, any guy, into court? I’m all for it.

 
Leon Trotsky, Exile-in-Mexico
 

Hooray! The neo-nazis have returned, and they speak about as well as can be expected.

Also, I didn’t die, I was just given a hell of a headache.

 
 

I am stealing that right now.

Bon apetite!

 
 

So did someone write a RaHoWa plugin for JanusNode or what? Because I honestly can’t suss out any coherence in Cory Hunter Ruger, KBE, HotJ’s posts.

Does anyone have any god damned idea what a YT is, either?

 
 

It’s really not that bizarre. For blacks about 70% of births are out of wedlock, while for whites it is like 25%.

Because everyone knows that marriage prevents people from abandoning their children.

 
 

Nazi in Aisle 5!

 
disinterested observer
 

“I say we attack latte-sipping elitists. Wait, what about Iran’s nuclear facilities?”

I think its easier to beat Brad Delong than Iran.

 
 

I just find it funny that attacking groups of people who basically wield zero political or economic clout is as politically profitable as it is.

Well I mean if you think about it, what were you expecting? That attacking groups that hold political power would be politically profitable?

” ^_^ “

 
 

That attacking groups that hold political power would be politically profitable? – mcc

Actually, that’s the way our system is supposed to work, c.f. Federalist #10.

Truman managed to get bumped up to VP that way. Of course, today the same people who “long for the Democratic party of Truman” would call a modern day Truman “hyperpartisan and shrill and playing politics while we should be supporting the troops” … and would make sure he’d never get another job in DC again. So much for “ambition being made to challenge ambition”.

Nu? Instead politicians target the powerless ’cause real ‘Murkens lurve a bully!

 
 

The Groom said,

June 18, 2008 at 0:17

It’s really not that bizarre. For blacks about 70% of births are out of wedlock, while for whites it is like 25%.

Because everyone knows that marriage prevents people from abandoning their children.

Umm…. ok you’re right nothing to see here….

 
 

“YT” is probably either “yours truly” (that is, the writer) or “whitey”. But since Werewolf bar-Mitzvah writes like that “12 Galaxies guiltied to a zegnatronic rocket society” guy it’s hard to tell.

 
 

In my honest opinion, if I properly remember, this is the greatest succession of replies to an electronically published article in history. My vocalized laughter caused the removal of my buttocks and I flipped my torso repeatedly while in a prone position.

It would please me if the preceding was of some assistance.

 
 

Bill C started this trend to un-McGovernize himself I guess, and it has since become the Beast that Wouldn’t Die: henceforth, every Democrat who wants to remain “viable” wid da white folk must extravangantly stage a “Sistah Souljah moment”. This is somehow code for “I am not Al Sharpton.”

 
 

Here’s an idea:

Morgan Tsvangirai just threw in the towel in the elections in Zimbabwe after his supporters were murdered, tortured etc by Mugabe’s thugs. Since he’s available, and political opposition is now one of those jobs homegrown Americans think is beneath them, why don’t we just import him? We need political opposition that doesn’t scare easily, and Tsvangirai needs a job and a new home.

Sounds more plausible than waiting for the Democowards to grow a pair.

 
 

Ich möchte Ihnen für diese Hinweise danken. Sie sind sehr nützlich.

 
 

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