6
Let’s Talk About Small Talk
Big Daddy Ezra K expresses his disdain for small talk:
I find small talk excruciating, all the more so because its rhythmic, deadening script offers so little room for escape into more interesting topics. Trapped in pleasantries, I’ll spend most of my mental energy trying to figure out how the conversation can hook into something more dense and enjoyable, and often remain incapable of getting it there. Which is odd, because I have lots of opinions on controversial, upsetting, conversation-worthy things.
To which I reply: most people just don’t enjoy talking about controversial, upsetting, conversation-worthy things.
In many ways, I sympathize with Ezra. I find chatting about my work, my hobbies and my overall daily life to be excruciatingly tedious and dull, mostly because daily life is excruciatingly tedious and dull, which is due in no small part to the fact that I spend a good deal of it discussing my daily life, which is excr… well, you get the idea.
Gavin adds: I get a huge boner on Laundry Day, but that’s only every couple of months.
I would much rather have conversations about the only topics I actually enjoy: politics, music, movies, sports and sex. The problem is, very few people really want to have discussions about the finer intricacies of David Lynch films, or the deeper meaning of Ghostface Killah’s latest record, or the philosophical influences on neoconservatism, or the ins-and-outs of Mike Shanahan’s zone blocking scheme. And while many people do enjoy discussing sex, it’s usually considered impolite to engage someone you don’t know very well in a convseration about your dream of getting wild’n'nasty with She-Hulk.
I don’t say this out of any sense of snobbery or elitism; rather, I’ve come to realize that people such as myself (and Ezra, apparently) are flat-out weird. And when we try to interject our “opinions on controversial, upsetting, conversation-worthy things” into conversation with most people, they look at us like we’re a bunch of bizarre-ass dorkonauts. And I have to admit, they’ve got a point there.
UPDATE: Oh, I also like talking beer. My current favorite brews are Arrogant Bastard Ale and Rogue Shakespeare Stout. Samuel Smith’s Imperial Stout is pretty darn good too.
Gavin adds: Well, if we’re confessing dorkitude… There’s Lobaria pulmonaria just frickin’ dripping off the trees here up in the deep woods, and I got to play an amazing Taylor acoustic bass whilst jamming with Teh Local Bluegrass Ensemble. I imagined that in the ’30s and for some time afterward, these jamborees had liquor involved — although these days, it’s apparently coffee and cookies, alack.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 6, 2007 at 18:59
Sure is a windy day here. Yep.
Martin Wisse said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:13
But that’s what you got blogs for! To explain in excruciating detail how your day went so you can just refer people making small talk to it and you can move on to better, more interesting topics.
(That’s why Lileks is such a scintillating conversationalist)
Republic of Palau said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:13
We all “…have lots of opinions on controversial, upsetting, conversation-worthy things.” - doesn’t mean anyone else wants to hear them.
Half of the job of conversation is listening. You wanna spout off? That’s what blogs are for.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:38
Half of the job of conversation is listening. You wanna spout off? That’s what blogs are for.
I dissent. Blogs are terrific because they’re communities for people who want to read about and discuss politics. That’s the reason we’re drawn to them- because they provide interesting (albeit stilted) conversation that we don’t get elsewhere.
tigrismus said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:42
Small talk is just the threshold, and I usually find that asking questions about my conversational partner and his or her interests will quickly illuminate common points of interest that allow deeper discussion to take place. Right now I’m interested in just how many people are hetted up by laundry day, and how their meds are working out for them.
Mart said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:45
So who is forcing anyone to engage in small talk? I guess the subtext here is that you have have all these wonderful meaningful nuanced thoughts that you’re just dying to discuss, but all these terrible boring louts just keep asking you if you like your job. Grow up. Conversation is a two way street. Each party has a responsibility to engage the other on a level that’s interesting and satisfying. And small talk, when done in honesty and warmth and genuine interest in others, can be very satisfying indeed. And it can even lead to a conversation worthy of your lofty ideals.
Love your blog, by the way - long time reader, first time commenter!
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:46
Small talk is just the threshold, and I usually find that asking questions about my conversational partner and his or her interests will quickly illuminate common points of interest that allow deeper discussion to take place.
I find that in large gatherings, most people like to gossip about other people. Which I simply find utterly boring and with no redeeming worth.
‘Course, I’m a cranky introverted curmudgeon anyway.
MrWonderful said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:50
Who is this Ezra chap? Bit of a wanker, is he? Bit of a child? Bit of a jejune auto-didact numbskull who thinks disdaining “small talk” makes him deep, interesting or–wait for it–”authentic”?
I, too, found small talk “excruciating,” at one time. But that time was when I was 14, you see, and in a constant indignant huff (as teenagers always are) about being “honest” and so on. Shorter Ezra: I’m too intelligent for this superficial world.
Tell this putz (idiot; fool) that one way to keep himself awake, the next time he’s subjected to what the rest of the grownup world thinks of as “socializing,” is to think of something witty and interesting to say about topics other than those of which he is proud to know something. Any moron can natter on about his major. It’s the mark of a *real* intelligence to, etc.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:51
I guess the subtext here is that you have have all these wonderful meaningful nuanced thoughts that you’re just dying to discuss, but all these terrible boring louts just keep asking you if you like your job.
Basically, yes.
My problem, honestly, isn’t with listening. I love listening to people when they’re talking about something I’m interested in. I have certain friends that I’ll call up just to discuss (not spout off to, but actually discuss) things like music and movies and politics and sports in-depth.
Also, I have a job (not going to go into details, but you can probably figure it out) where I have to do a LOT of listening to other people talk about themselves. I do a very good job of listening, but at the end of the day it’s draining, and you just want to talk about the things YOU want to talk about.
And small talk, when done in honesty and warmth and genuine interest in others, can be very satisfying indeed.
You’re wrong.
tigrismus said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:51
I find that in large gatherings, most people like to gossip about other people.
I find they’d much rather talk about themselves! Of course, they don’t let me out much, so my experience may not be that of others.
Mart said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:53
You’re wrong.
I begin to see why you’re dissatisfied with your conversations…
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:55
I begin to see why you’re dissatisfied with your conversations…
I begin to see why you can’t pick up on droll humor.
Mart said,
January 6, 2007 at 19:57
I begin to see why you can’t pick up on droll humor.
Um, ew. Bye.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:10
Um, ew. Bye.
I’m sorry for being rude, I’m just having a shitty day. I’m normally not this obnoxious. I’ma step away from the keyboard for a while and calm down. Sorry again.
mdhatter said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:16
Good thing about small talk is you get to talk about the weather.
which is all fucjed up.
mdhatter said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:19
“‘Course, I’m a cranky introverted curmudgeon anyway.”
Brad. You should come to my superbowl party. I’ll have a houseful of us. I’m a collector.
Mart said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:20
I’m sorry for being rude, I’m just having a shitty day. I’m normally not this obnoxious. I’ma step away from the keyboard for a while and calm down. Sorry again.
Thanks for the apology and I do understand - it’s somethiing I have to live with as well, and that may be why I feel so strongly on the other side of the fence about this small talk thing. Having moved from NYC to Philadelphia recently, I’ve been dealing with a little culture shock. The people I deal with daily are much less likely to be competent, driven people who express strong interests and opinions. I’m not trashing Philly, but that’s just how it is. My own response, to keep me sane, is to try to find the good in it - everyone has a self-absorbed lout living in their brain, and everyone has a curious, interesting side as well. I have to work harder to get past the lout, to get to the interesting person. Adopting the mindset that Ezra expresses would be a one-way ticket to Misanthropyville for me.
And I am sorry about your day…
mikey said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:26
I dunno. There is a theory that I have long suffered from ADD, self medicated, of course. I’ve always described it as “monkey mind” (stolen decades ago from Herb Caen), where my funny little thought process jumps and swings rapidly from topic to topic. I find interacting with people to be very pleasurable because I can usually keep the conversation from going down a rathole, and there is usually a lot of laughter (and perhaps a bit of competition) in conversations I’m involved in.
Except on the phone. Gawd help me, but I hate that fucking thing!!
mikey
flawedplan said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:31
Small talk is a dull but necessary skill, it’s how people connect, like it or not that has to happen before anything can start.
Edmund Schluessel said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:32
North Coast Old Rasputin Imperial Stout. A kicking of asses.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:33
Sports is by its nature small talk.
Martin Wisse said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:37
So, how about those Mets?
flawedplan said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:41
No, not sports, but an underrated womanly art, small talk done strategically.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:46
Adopting the mindset that Ezra expresses would be a one-way ticket to Misanthropyville for me.
Yeah, I see that side.
I think the point I was trying to make in the original post before I started acting like an asshole in the comments is:
a.) I enjoy having “deep” conversations about things that I’m interested in- music, politics, sex, movies, etc.
b.) Not everyone enjoys talking about those things with me, and I can’t really blame them.
c.) It’s still important to have small talk with people about the things that they’re interested in, even if they’re not your forte. You can still enjoy and appreciate someone’s company even if you don’t have “deep” discussions with them.
d.) THAT SAID, if I’m dating someone long-term, being able to have deep conversations is a must. Because after sex, you have to talk, and it damn well better be interesting (and yes, I’d prefer to fall asleep, but that’s just the way things go ;-)).
Also, sports is small talk, but it’s also pretty geeky. Think about it- you’re talking about other guys wearing silly-looking uniforms running around on a field or court. That’s a small step above talking about LARPing, people.
tory smith said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:47
I love small talk when I’m incredibly drunk.
Mart said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:55
Yeah, I see that side.
I agree with everything you’re saying here. And I think that I was objecting most forcefully to Ezra’s tone, not so much to anything you actually said. Ezra seems to think he’s trapped in this world of smalltalk with no way out - which if course is what happens if you’re not really engaged in the conversation… and he seems to think that he’s just too deep and subtle for ordinary mortals - which shows exactly the same kind of self-absorption that he’s railing against.
I see that we could have a deep conversation about shallow conversation - but alas, I’m off to be fitted for a tux ;-)
mdhatter said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:56
“North Coast Old Rasputin Imperial Stout. A kicking of asses.”
So strong they can’t serve it by the pitcher, and it only comes in 4=packs.
and yes, it is the best. beer. ever.
For those in SE Mass, it is carried by Lukes Liquors (several locations).
I used to do dollar taco night at that brewery on a weekly basis… .yummm. taco’s n’ stout.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 20:58
North Coast Old Rasputin Imperial Stout
OK, that’s next on my list. I’m way into Rogue’s Chocolate Stout as well. In fact, that whole damn brewery kicks ass.
flawedplan said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:01
I’m getting angry, maybe I’ll step away too. We’re just not gonna have this conversation are we? Typical liberal horseshit. We are complaining that we don’t like smalltalk. The goal is to move from chickenshit to compelling conversation. Women have no particular role in this, huh, we better not say that, for we don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes of conniving females. The move from nonsense to compelling talk is a contrived process, usually generated by subtle and savvy women. Pay attention, dammit, give some credit.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:04
The move from nonsense to compelling talk is a contrived process, usually generated by subtle and savvy women.
…
Elaborate? I’m not following.
kingubu said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:16
I’m remined of an old Life In Hell comic where Binky, at a party, starts ranting about how boring and shallow everyone is. The host finally asks him to leave, and in the last panel he stands by himself, outside, mocking the party-goers (using his hands as puppets) while the others can be seen inside dancing and having a good time.
I took that little bit of social wisdom to heart, back then… and while it obviously didn’t stop me from becoming the guy who points to 20-year-old comic strips as revealed wisdom while commenting on some other guy’s blog, I probably had a lot more fun in the meantime for having done so.
So, Bradrocket, did you see that Charlie Kaufman’s new flick is going into production?
Doc Nebula said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:24
She-Hulk?
She-Hulk?
You’ll put your eye out, kid.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:27
So, Bradrocket, did you see that Charlie Kaufman’s new flick is going into production?
No, but I’m psyched for it. What’s this one about?
You’ll put your eye out, kid.
Here’s hopin’!
flawedplan said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:27
Maybe I take it too seriously, but it’s like an ethos for me, I am a cultural feminist and we are all but extinct, sorry but I’m defensive about that.
Women set the tone, they do stuff. Start looking for it and it’s there, women rescue stalled conversations, they guide discourse by being the first to risk self-disclosure that doesn’t put themselves in the best of lights, they create a climate that makes people feel safe and easy even as they tumble you into unchartered territory. And they get no credit or recognition. There is a hint of receptivity and even submission in the manner I’m praising so am used to getting feminist shit for that. So what. I’ve talked a lot to radical women who are very deliberate about social arts and they’re like scientists about methodology, and though it’s a lot about gestures and tone of voice that don’t translate easily online, they can be found, on this blogroll, even.
Mart said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:39
I think what flawedplan is saying is that women are, on average at least, better at conversation than men. I don’t disagree. But I have a really stupid question, and I’ll probably get flamed out the wazoo for it:
Has anyone read “How To Win Friends And Influence People?” I know, even the title is cliché, but it actually makes some very good basic points about what we’re talking about here - all the more refreshing because it’s in simple, insensitive, male-centric old-tymey language (”man” instead of “person” and so on…) I wasn’t expecting what I found in that book.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:41
Women set the tone, they do stuff. Start looking for it and it’s there, women rescue stalled conversations, they guide discourse by being the first to risk self-disclosure that doesn’t put themselves in the best of lights, they create a climate that makes people feel safe and easy even as they tumble you into unchartered territory. And they get no credit or recognition. There is a hint of receptivity and even submission in the manner I’m praising so am used to getting feminist shit for that. So what. I’ve talked a lot to radical women who are very deliberate about social arts and they’re like scientists about methodology, and though it’s a lot about gestures and tone of voice that don’t translate easily online, they can be found, on this blogroll, even.
Asking us men to appreciate subtle and deliberate social arts is probably asking a bit much of us. I mean, we probably DO appreciate it, we just don’t understand what we’re appreciating. Here’s a typical stream of consciousness for us:
“I like this beer. It is good beer. I wonder if there are any bowl games on tonight. The chick in the corner has a nice ass. I’ll try talking to her after another beer. Ooooh, I see a bag of chips!”
And at some point we realize, “Hey, I’m having a very nice time chatting- what a fine and relaxed atmosphere!” And at THAT point, at THAT point we SHOULD be saying, “Gee, the women hosting this party have done a great job of making everyone here feel comfortable and included and free to express themselves!” But it’s too subtle for us, you see? We are not subtle creatures.
kingubu said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:48
Kaufman linky
The working title is Synecdoche, New York. (I would’ve suggested Metonymy, Ohio but I guess that’s already taken for the next Bruckheimer epic…)
If you’re of a mind to, you can use Teh Google to truck in a leaked copy of the script, but I refuse to look.
Also, it appears that Phillip Seymour Hoffman is going to be playing the lead. Su-weet.
I still haven’t seen Lynch’s Inland Empire. Did you see it?
tb said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:51
I’m experimenting with a new technique of lying to people. You make up lies to make their ordinary small talk into something interesting and amusing to you. I personally do not stick with the lie if they integrate it into the small talk- I explain that I made it up in service of this or that amusing image. It works OK. You have to do it with a very sensitive hand or you just come off as some kind of asshole clown lying to people and jerking them around. You’re not trying to get laughs, you’re just fucking around a little bit.
flawedplan said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:52
Very true, no intuition and men cannot feel.
mikey said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:53
“I like this beer. It is good beer. I wonder if there are any bowl games on tonight. The chick in the corner has a nice ass. I’ll try talking to her after another beer. Ooooh, I see a bag of chips!�
“Uh oh, I need to fart. Maybe if I just let it out a little at a time. Whoops! Did I really bet two hundred bux on the colts? Oh, it’ll be fine. I need to buy new underwear. Hey, that chick looks like my eighth grade math teacher. Maybe I should switch to scotch. Hmm, wonder if anybody here has a doob. I oughta get up early tomorrow. Can anyone tell this isn’t a clean shirt? Wow, that dude has weird hair. I shoulda worn a hat tonite. Hats are cool. Ok, one more beer, then scotch.”
This is a fun game!!
mikey
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:55
INLAND EMPIRE looked really good. The best way to go into a Lynch movie is by accepting that it will be structured as a dream, and thus not prone to the same logical story arc as most films. Even so, I hear INLAND EMPIRE was ridiculously confusing.
I haven’t been to the movies in quite a long time. Last film I saw in the theatre was A SCANNER DARKLY.
His Grace said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:55
Brad, if it helps, whenever I get stuck in boring small talk conversation that goes nowhere, one of the things I do is pretend I am a leprechaun. That instantly livens up the conversation.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:56
Very true, no intuition and men cannot feel.
We can feel. We’re just taught not to show it.
tigrismus said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:56
Wow, that dude has weird hair. I shoulda worn a hat tonite. Hats are cool
GASP! I like hats, too!
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:58
mikey- the first rule of sports gambling is betting on the Colts in a playoff game. it’s like better on the white guy in a boxing match.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:58
rather, the first rule is to NEVER bet on the colts in a playoff game.
kingubu said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:59
Shorter Brad and mikey: “Yeah, we do trivial small-talk, we just do it on the inside.”
g said,
January 6, 2007 at 21:59
As part of my unofficial duties as a spouse of somebody whose job includes fundraising, I have to spend a lot of time talking with older rich people and their spouses at social gatherings, and it’s inappropriate for me to be controversial, upsetting, or outrageous, or even memorable, really.
So what I do, and it turns out to be fun for me, is make a big effort to take an interest in the person I’m talking to, and get them to talk about themselves, but in ways they may not initially think of.
People love to talk about themselves, and rich or powerful people especially like to talk about themselves, but if you let them just go on without shaping the conversation, it is boring or an exercise for their egos.
I like to ask people where they grew up, what their family was like, what kind of music they enjoyed as kids, how they met their spouses, stuff like that. Most people never get a chance to go down memory lane in their day to day life, and when they have a willing listener it’s a treat for them.
I’m really not interested too much in what kind of real estate deals Mr. Big Bucks is into, or how Mrs. Big Bucks is redecorating the salon. But I AM interested in hearing how Mr. Big Bucks first started out when he got out of the army, or how Mrs. Big Bucks used to play the piano in high school, or how he proposed to her, or the small apartment they lived in when the first got married - I like hearing about these things, it’s like reading a storybook.
Plus, they feel kindly to people who take an interest in them like this. Which is helpful with the fundraising.
Abby said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:11
“I’m a cranky introverted curmudgeon anyway.”
You are, but I’d say a cranky introverted nut worth the cracking. You’re a music nerd, and so am I, and I don’t tend to come at people too intensely when we first meet, so I think that worked well. I’ve seen you attacked with overly social behavior and shrink from it. Sure you did. It was annoying. You’re kinda like my cats. Give you a little space to approach when you’re ready, and you’re a sweetheart. Run after you and pet you when you’re not ready, then that’s the death knell!
I find that I like a dance between small talk and the heavy. I have NO tolerance with people who want to engage me in a discussion about their latest thoughts about theater or the Bush administration when I’m waiting to hear my friend sing at karaoke or trying to order a beer. I think it’s all about timing. So the person who is paying no attention to the greater social situation and shows up, at a party, with a specific very heavy topic they want to discuss… SADLY, NO, I’m not interested. Now if the conversation organically gets there, then cool, but if I feel like you’re torquing everything just to match what you’re thinking and you’re showing no interest in the rest of the world at large, my interests, the current environment, then please go away.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:29
You are, but I’d say a cranky introverted nut worth the cracking. You’re a music nerd, and so am I, and I don’t tend to come at people too intensely when we first meet, so I think that worked well. I’ve seen you attacked with overly social behavior and shrink from it. Sure you did. It was annoying.
LOL, my friend Abby, everyone, here to tell you about my non-blog life! ;-)
a different brad said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:29
I’m with my fellow Brad on this. The weather is fucking boring, let’s not talk about it.
Also, I really need to see Inland Empire. It’s supposed to be his most experimental work since Eraserhead.
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:31
Now if the conversation organically gets there, then cool, but if I feel like you’re torquing everything just to match what you’re thinking and you’re showing no interest in the rest of the world at large, my interests, the current environment, then please go away.
Yeah, I think that’s fair.
I think people need to find different places for different conversations. I try to get my political ya-yas out on teh blog and at Drinking Liberally, where I know people like to shoot the shit about this kinda stuff.
Me said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:33
I wish I could think to people instead of talking to them. Of course, they’d probably want to kill me instead of ignoring me.
iamcoyote said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:36
Small talkers are fine with me. I tune ‘em out and have an internal dialogue much like mikey’s above. It’s them low talkers what piss me off. You can’t tell if they’re being yawningly trivial or deeply interesting. Speak up, dammit!
Brad R. said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:36
Funny thing is, I HATE Eraserhead. Mostly that freaky sheep baby, which was straight out of a nightmare (and I realize that was the whole point, but still). I think Lynch is at his best when he takes small-town noir and turns it on its head (see: Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks).
Jillian said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:39
Small talk is an art form that people use to ease what would otherwise be potentially awkward social situations. As such, it’s just a skill one learns, like which spoon to eat the soup with. It’s rarely ever something done for “fun” - but it sure as hell is useful the next time you’re at the company Christmas party and the regional manager - the one who’s a conservative Christian and a religiously Republican voter - ends up seated at your table for the evening.
That being said, I’m actually horrible at small talk and find the whole experience more painful than naked breakdancing on hot concrete. I’m a bit envious of folks who have interests that are more ordinary than mine, because they have so much fertile ground for being able to strike up interesting chit chat with others. I don’t mean that in an ironic, elitist way at all. The fact that I don’t like sports, hate TV, and rarely find a movie interesting enough to want to talk about afterwards - but could make fun of Niall Ferguson as the stupid man’s Oswald Spengler for hours - sort of limits the types of social gatherings I end up attending.
People seem strange to me most of the time. I don’t understand ‘em at all.
a different brad said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:41
Everyone has that the one Lynch they don’t like. For most it seems to be Lost Highway, but that’s my fav by him. I can’t stand Wild At Heart cause of Nick Cage, and as good as Blue Velvet is, Dennis Hopper doesn’t scare me, he annoys me.
I like Lynch at his most dreamlike, but that’s my pref in film in general. Kurosawa’s Dreams is one of my alltime favs.
mikey said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:43
Hmmm. I make a crappy movie nerd. I loved Master and Commander. I really liked A History of Violence. I haven’t seen the new Pirates yet but I think the Cap’n Jack Sparrow character is an amazing construct. I know, pretty vannilla, huh. Movies that confuse me piss me off…
mikey
kingubu said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:55
BTW, speaking of Lynch, this poster hangs in my downstairs bathroom.
Celibacy for celluloid! Punish bad cinema!
Daniel said,
January 6, 2007 at 22:57
I don’t like small talk either. People ask me about my day, I think about it, and then I find I’m so bored I can’t say it out loud. For the most part, I find that people like to talk, and I like to let them.
And if we’re talking about movies - did anyone see [i]Stranger Than Fiction[/i]? What did you think? I thought it was beautifully constructed, and I liked those on-screen graphics showing the exact measurements of stuff as Will Ferrell counts them.
Daniel said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:00
And if we’re talking about movies - did anyone see [i]Stranger Than Fiction[/i]?
Bloody hell, why does the way you do italics have to be different on every single website?
Some Guy said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:00
Don’t worry, Brad. Ass-chicking chicks with long, straight hair and fingerless gloves = teh hawtness lol waffle-rofl. I’m hoping that Tifa* will return my emails someday with something other then a court order.
“non-blog life”? Nope, you lost me there.
Small-talk is, indeed, boring and excruciating. But not without it’s uses.
*AC Tifa, not FFVII Tifa.
Harry Cheddar said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:02
I literally can’t stay awake during Lynch films. Something about the “dreamlike quality” or whatever. About thirty minutes and I’m out. Which is bad, because I don’t want some freakly Lynch dream reprogramming.
JK47 said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:03
or the deeper meaning of Ghostface Killah’s latest record
“Fishscale” is easily one of the best hip-hop records of the decade. Ghost is for my money the top MC going right now– he has amazing flow, genius lyrics and tons of personality.
It’s one of the best records of 2006 regardless of genre, along with the Yo La Tengo, Mastodon and TV On The Radio records.
kingubu said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:06
ADB: Everyone has that the one Lynch they don’t like.
Yep. For me, its Fire Walk With Me. What a freakin’ gyp that thing was.
Brad R: think Lynch is at his best when he takes small-town noir and turns it on its head (see: Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks).
Yessir. I loved Wild At Heart, too. How could you not love the classic American road picture mashed together with The Wizard of Oz and filtered through Lynch’s surreal lens? (Also, Laura Dern in that movie… Teh HAWTNESS).
a different brad said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:10
If we’re talking She-Hulk, there’s only one thing to say. Only if drawn by Byrne. He makum purty superheroines, mmmmm.
Also, any woman who isn’t 7 feet tall, green, and built like a porn star has neither self-respect nor good schooling.
Daniel said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:14
ADB: Everyone has that the one Lynch they don’t like
Dune. He should have done Return of the Jedi like Lucas asked him to. That would have been sweet.
Or fucked up. Probably both.
a different brad said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:18
See, I love FWWM. Garmonbozia n all that, though it’s really the postscript to Twin Peaks, not a stand alone work. Still, it’s intense as hell. The only thing I didn’t like was the changes in cast, but if lara flynn boyle was too busy puking to work for lynch again I guess you can’t force her.
My problem with wild at heart is, as said, nick cage, who I can’t stand in a he’s boring as hell and confuses whispering and yelling for acting kinda way. Had anyone else been the lead I’m sure I would have loved it.
Candy said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:25
I must be weird, I don’t have a Lynch I don’t like, but my favorite is either “Wild at Heart” or “The Straight Story”. His use of light and shadow in WAH is amazing, like a Dutch master on film.
Recently finally got to see “The Motorcycle Diaries”. Very, very good. I’m not bothered by subtitles, and know just enough Spanish to pick up the sense of the conversation by ear. Watched it through three times in one weekend. Also watched “Waking Ned Devine” which was a very funny movie. I’ve actually seen a lot of good movies lately.
In the last month, I watched Apocalypse Now and read Heart of Darkness, back to back. Interesting to compare the two.
Small talk? I don’t mind it. I’ll talk to a tree stump, though. I shamelessly talk to myself and Kitty Cheese when I’m alone. No thought is truly complete without articulation.
Can’t linger, cleaning, laundry, and cooking (chicken cacciatore) today… daily life isn’t boring, you just have to find the fun in everyday activities. I used to have a life like a soap opera, and when I was younger, that was fun. But now, I find that what I most enjoy is a good book, an interesting conversation, nice wine, and a hot soak in a bubble bath. And lest you think I’m acting like a geezer, I still like a good metal show and am not yet uncomfortable with the bar crowd. :)
mikey said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:34
Ahhh, Candy, you had me at geezer…
mikey
a different brad said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:35
I once wrote a paper comparing apocalypse now and heart of darkness in how they relate to the mythical Other. I think the main flaw in both, a necessary, at times beautiful flaw, is that neither Marlowe nor Willard nor Kurtz recognizes the basic humanity of the Other, only the brutal aspects of it. The flaw is necessary because it goes to the heart of the critique of the imperalist project.
This is why I can’t do small talk. I get too heavy too quick for most people. I’m weird. Have been since ferever.
M.Sphinx said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:40
I’ve tried before, in vain, to engage in small talk. I’ve since given up on that and have learned an even more valuable art: pretending you care. As long as you remember the last sentence, it looks like you’ve been listening the whole time.
Herr Doktor Bimler said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:46
Apparently most people do prefer to engage in small talk — if the alternative is to listen to me ranting drunkenly about the little-known episode in Egyptian history when Pharaoh Apop-Tosis III died of a surfeit of crocodiles. Frau Doktorin Penny has told me so, on many occasions.
Abby said,
January 6, 2007 at 23:52
OK, sure, it’s contrived when conversation moves from chit-chat to deeper topics, but I like it when that is a collaboration, but then I’m a chick, so what the hell do I know {flips hair and giggles, looking around to see who is watching}.
Yeah Brad. I totally narc-ed on you, but I was vague, so it’s cool, right?
I also tend to use the internet as a place to talk about things I wouldn’t be as likely to talk about at a social gathering, on my and other people’s blogs, Ask Metafilter, Flickr, social networking sites (yes, still different from real social life), etc. Some of us are born with too many thoughts and have to spread them around so as not to drive those closest to us to thoughts of offing themselves!
Smotus said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:04
Rogue Shakespeare Stout is awesome. Kudos.
Matt T. said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:06
First off, I’ve always found Lynch’s films boring, overwrought and weird-solely-for-the-sake-of-freaking-out-the-squares. Whenever some hipster-approved movie or filmmaker is suggested to me, I immediately flash to the two-hours-and-change I’ll never get back from Lost Highway. Secondly, there’s a new She-Hulk monthly out and it’s pretty damn good. Dan Slott and Julian Bobillo are doing it, and it explores the She-Hulk’s life outside superheroics, mainly her second career as a lawyer. One of the better books amongst the miles and miles of crap DC and Marvel are putting out these days.
Anyhow. Like Brad, I used to have a job that involved talking and listening to people. I was a journalist for a variety of publications in a variety of places. I’ve talked and listened to high school softball coaches, hunters who’d shot really big deer, old ladies celebrating their 100-plus birthday though they’re barely aware they’re in the world, cops, crooks, transvestive prostitutes, accident-scene witnesses, crackheads, Deadheads, greedheads, soldiers, sailors, Klansmen, star quarterbacks, the kid who blew the game-wining free shot, the mother who shot her abusive husband after years of beating, the father who hasn’t talked to his kids in years and doesn’t know if they know he’s alive, bums, businessmen, astronomers, astrologers, bullshit artists, prechers who really mean it, gun nuts, a handful of truly worrying animal advocates, hippies, yuppies, church ladies, budding porn stars, future dentists, a number of very famous people, and a retired cowboy who made barbarian-type swords for folks who want to buy that sort of thing. And then I had to write about them.
I also used to drink heavily and had the disturbing tendency to gobble mushrooms and acid whenever they were presented. This never failed to put my mouth in gear. I’ve also got a life-long love of esoteric information, the weirder the better, and the end result was sort of Cliff Claven with a thick Southern accent.
I quit drinking, and all I do is smoke pot. I got burnt out on the writing gig (done the sum total of one blog post in the past year) and I keep home and hearth together with a job as a prep cook in a local eatery. I work by myself, don’t interact with customers and I don’t have to interact with the rest of the staff should I so chose. They’re a good bunch of kids, but more days than not, I’m downstairs listening to my tunes*, reading my books**, and generally having a good time. I don’t go out much anymore, and I used to go out seven-nights a week***, and I thoroughly enjoy my solitude.
When I find myself in convorsation these days, I find myself very uncomfortable if I have to take the lead. Matter of fact, that very quality has pretty much ruined my chances in a certain bespectled local bartender as well as quashing my interest in her. If someone talks, I listen. If they ask questions, I answer. More often than not, the convorsation will drift into interesting territory. People like to be listened to, and I do think our culture encourages us to be talkers rather than listeners. I’m a bit disturbed at how easily many people will open up to all sorts of things to, apparently, the first cat who actually listens to them. It freaks some people out.
But if they don’t, I just sit there and smile until they wander off to find someone more interesting to talk to and leave me to my tremelous thoughts. I claim no great wisdom, but I think I’ve learned that convorsation, small talk included, is what you make of it. Like someone said above, you can’t force interesting convorsations with people, but there’s no reason to hang around some boring, self-absorbed dingbat just to be engaged.
Plus, the more one smiles, the more others wander what the smiler is up to. ‘Course, I smoke a lot of weed, so that probably has something to do with it.
* Nobody, and I mean nobody seems to be interested in classic R&B, Southern soul, Chicago blues, and ’70s and ’80s era country music in Athens.
** Predominately books on physics, philosophy and Medieval history these days. Apparently not convorsation starters.
*** And I had me a real good time, too. Gotta love college towns.
tigrismus said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:07
Pharaoh Apop-Tosis III died of a surfeit of crocodiles
At least he did it for the good of the whole, though, eh?
Matt T. said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:10
Hell’s donkeys, all that gobbledygook and I left out the most important part, the one thing far too long in the journalism field taught me: ask questions. If one finds oneself mired in small talk, ask the other person questions. Get definitions. Find out what they really mean when one’s compaion says what he or she says.
Not a hard-and-fast rule by any means, but I have found it helps seperate the wheat from the chaff. That, or it just plain weirds a lot of people out to have a long-haired, scruffy looking, wild-eyed stump jumper with an illegal grin asking them so many questions. Could be me, in other words.
tigrismus said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:12
’70s and ’80s era country music in Athens
At the J&J Center? Or the Silver Saddle?
Anne Laurie said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:16
As Flawedplan and Jillian have already said, “small talk” is an essential social skill for primates living in groups larger than an extended family… it’s the way two or more talking primates negotiate past our reptile-brain stranger! — eat? run? screw? piss on? hardwiring and figure out how we can share space, maybe even work together, maybe even have FUN together. And, as Flawedplan so brilliantly explains, our particular talking-primate culture has arranged it so that it’s usually women who are responsible for monitoring the small-talk conversation streams to find out what new group members are happiest discussing, and to shape the ensuing conversational pairings so that each member feels they’ve achieved maximum benefit for minimum effort. Of course, for all their hard work, women are summarily dismissed by the (mostly male) Deep Thinkers as trivial, brainless little networkers who have no interests beyond gossip, babies, pets, weather, interior decoration, the local worship community, and the price of bread. The Deep Thinkers, of course, prefer to discuss History, Sports, Science, the Arts, Philosophy, and Economics – which have nothing to do with trivial women-talk crap, after all!
Seriously, as someone who has been diagnosed with ADD, I believe that one reason that political blogging has taken off so fast and so successfully is that a LOT of physically awkward, socially inept, high-IQ, tech-happy autodidacts suffer from some degree of attention-deficit disorder. And blogging in its current form “rewards� the sort of fast-response, high-verbal, novelty-seeking behavior that is stereotypically ADD/ADHD. As one of my few non-ADD-tending friends once said at the Thanksgiving gathering a group of us has kept going for more than 20 years now, “You all can have six different conversations at once… but you can’t have one conversation at once!�
Eric B. said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:19
The only thing worse than talking about the excrutiatingly dull details of your everyday life is listening to someone else describe theirs. I can’t tell you the number of truly useful things that once occupied space in my brain that were pushed out by being inflicted with the truly trivial travails of others.
The hell of it is that small talk is like driving across country on an Interstate … you get the breadth of someone’s life without really learning anything meaningful about them.
Jillian said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:21
God, I feel like such a failure as a girl now!
(sob!)
Matt T. said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:44
tigrismus,
I work Saturdays, so I haven’t been out to J&J in years. And though I’ve never been to the Silver Saddle - not even sure if I’m thinking of the right place - my experience with sho’nuff country bars is that folks who are country fans to near exclusivity have short memories, particularly for what’s apparently seen as a rather embarassing decade for both modern country fans and hipster country fans. Everyone digs on the Outlaws, the Second Coming of George Jones, or the last stands of folks like Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard. Don’t get much call for Earl Thomas Conley or Gary Stewart or Johnny Lee or Dottie West. I don’t understand it, but what the hell.
Anne Laurie said,
January 7, 2007 at 0:44
Mikey, Matt T., and anyone else here who’s found themselves with “too many thoughts and have to spread them around so as not to drive those closest to us to thoughts of offing themselves!”: For the lucky ones among us, prescription drugs can help a lot. The first time I took Ritalin, at the age of almost-40, I walked into a bookstore on my lunch hour to buy the recommended handbook for adults with ADD*. And for the first time in 30-plus years, I walked out of the bookstore 40 minutes later with the book I’d gone looking for, and withoutthree or six or a dozen other books that looked interesting but I couldn’t afford them right then even if I’d had the time to read them…. and when I realized this, I actually stopped dead in the street and thought, “Damn! Do normal people feel like this all the time? If I’d known this 20 years ago, I’d have conquered the world by now!”
Best way I can explain, the drugs make me feel like my brain is a radio that’s always been prone to drifting between stations, and the pills let me snap onto one signal and stay there. Incidentally, both nicotine and caffeine have similar effects on people with non-neurotypical brain chemistry… you can actually graph both the rise of Starbucks and adult ADD diagnoses against the number of places one is no longer allowed to smoke in America. Statistics on illicit self-medication are obviously harder to compile, but if one has always relied on coffee, cancer sticks, alcohol, or pot in order to finish a project, well…
*Driven to Distraction: Recognizing and Coping with Attention Deficit Disorder from Childhood Through Adulthood, by Edward M. Hallowell, John J. Ratey, John J. Ratey. A very easy read, primarily written by a neurosurgeon who is also ADD, and well worth reading even if it’s just everyone around you who seems to have these issues.
Lesley said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:07
The rightwingosphere may have redefined the meaning of “small talk.”
Hell isn’t “how are you, I am fine, the weather outside’s delightful etc….” Hell is having to read the gibberish the wingnuts are saying every day. I can barely stand it anymore.
tigrismus said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:15
Matt, I was just chain-yanking. I didn’t go to bars in that era, but ooh, the stories I’ve heard about those two places! Let’s see, hair bleached out so white it would glow under the black lights, the stabbings, the shootings… and those were just the women! Seriously, any time you saw the Silver Saddle in print it was a crime report.
mikey said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:18
Thanks, Anne. When i first discovered amphetimines (hint - kennedy was still prez) I knew I was onto something special. When I did my last line of crank in May of ‘94 (didn’t know at the time it was my last line or I would have enjoyed it more) I embarked on a different way of coping. Still miss the speed, most every day, but my life and health have improved, most especially my relations with law enforcement and local government.
At this point I work in a creative field, am mostly comfortable in my own skin, spend most nights at home, read, write and listen to music (hey Matt, remember rusty wier?), so I’m not one to go down the speed road again, legit or not. But thats assuming I can continue to stumble about semi-directed and still arrive at a pre-selected destination. At some point, I would be willing to reconsider a position constructed primarily out of fear….
mikey
Abby said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:20
ADD thing is totally true. I’m a card carrying ADD-er from way back (diagnosed at age 8 back in the 70s!) and now I have a PhD in Psych, and I specialize in ADD. AND I blog, so I’m constantly meeting other people who are extremely active online who eventually bring up “the question”. Do I think they have ADD? And often, the answer is yes. People with this style self-select into this fast-paced, multi-topical online world. Couldn’t agree more.
Jillian said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:28
And for the first time in 30-plus years, I walked out of the bookstore 40 minutes later with the book I’d gone looking for, and withoutthree or six or a dozen other books that looked interesting but I couldn’t afford them right then even if I’d had the time to read them…
Doesn’t everybody do this?
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:33
The first time I took Ritalin, at the age of almost-40, I walked into a bookstore on my lunch hour to buy the recommended handbook for adults with ADD*. And for the first time in 30-plus years, I walked out of the bookstore 40 minutes later with the book I’d gone looking for, and withoutthree or six or a dozen other books that looked interesting but I couldn’t afford them right then even if I’d had the time to read them…. and when I realized this, I actually stopped dead in the street and thought, “Damn! Do normal people feel like this all the time? If I’d known this 20 years ago, I’d have conquered the world by now!�
I had a similar experience with the serotonin balancers when I was in a bad way…just the knowledge that people could exist without being fucking miserable all the time was as life-changing as acid was. I don’t take ‘em anymore (although I will in a pinch) but the sense of perspective gained was invaluable.
I’m looking into this Ritalin thing. What you’re writing about seems suspiciously like what I fantasize it should be. Thanks for mentioning it.
Jillian said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:36
Oh, hey, and while I’m thinking about it…..
Do most people tend to browse the ‘Net with eight or nine windows on totally unrelated topics open at the same time? Because it never even occurred to me to wonder if that were common before this.
I have a complex now.
J— said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:49
Do most people tend to browse the ‘Net with eight or nine windows on totally unrelated topics open at the same time?
Multiple tabs, multiple windows, and sometimes multiple browsers.
Kathleen said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:51
UPDATE: Oh, I also like talking beer. My current favorite brews are Arrogant Bastard Ale and Rogue Shakespeare Stout. Samuel Smith’s Imperial Stout is pretty darn good too.
New Belgium Brewing Co. (http://www.newbelgium.com/) all the way. Fat Tire, Sunshine Wheat, Blue Paddle Lager. yum yum yum
mikey said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:56
Do most people tend to browse the ‘Net with eight or nine windows on totally unrelated topics open at the same time?
The maximum the particular computer will support. On this machine, that’s two firefox windows, six tabs each. Unless I’m running Illustrator, in which case it’s one window, six tabs. At the office, a much better ‘puter, it’s more like five windows, five-six tabs…
mikey
mikey said,
January 7, 2007 at 1:59
the first rule is to NEVER bet on the colts in a playoff game.
Y’know, the problem with conventional wisdom is it’s just so damn, well, CONVENTIONAL…
mikey
Matt T. said,
January 7, 2007 at 2:00
Jillian,
Yeah, I do that, too. Blows my brother’s mind. I also generally read three or four books at a time, skipping around whenever my attention wanders.
mikey,
Off the top of my head, I can’t remember if I’ve ever heard his recordings, but I am familiar with his songwriting work. I’ve a deep affection for the Texas troubadour type, and the aforementioned “interviewing…famous people” includes me getting the chance to hang out with Terry Allen and Ray Wylie Hubbard at various times in the past. Cool old(er) dudes indeed.
tigirmus,
I’ve been to joints like that. Quit hanging out at them when three-hundred pounds of muscle, gut, beer and mean threatened to stomp my “hippie, college boy ass” because his old lady mentioned how much she liked my hair. Figured the stories I got from those places weren’t worth the inevitable ass kickings that such misunderstandings might bring. Still, those joints are much like any other non-music oriented bar: the music’s just for background, and people want the familiar, preferably what they hear every day.
Anne Laurie,
Oddly enough, one of my cousins commented over the Christmas get-together that she thought my I had ADD. I don’t know. When I have to concentrate - when I have to take care of business, happy birthday, King - I can get it done. If I’m engaged in reading something, it takes physical violence to disengage me from the book. Otherwise, my world is a rolling stream of bright, shiny things, and I can’t get shit accomplished unless I have a definate goal thrust upon me from an outside source. Since giving up the journalism gig, I’ve been at loose ends with regards to the whole “what I’m going to do with my life” because I can’t get anything more than started before I wander off to something else.
So who knows. That being said, I went through a spot of serious depression a few years back - partly brought on by the disillusionment with the whole journalism thing - and the thought that maybe the world would be better off without did come into play. However, I did the whole therapy thing and the whole mood-balancing medication thing, and both of them worked so well that I was soon able to move on to the whole new-outlook-on-life thing. I highly recommend such to any and all, with the caveat that it may not work as quickly as it did with me, but it does help. And, to quote the late, great Doug Sahm, a little bit is better than nada.
Thing is, and I’m not trying to trivialize those who truly suffer from ADD, I’m sorta digging the stochastic approach to existence I’ve got going on. Granted, it ain’t making me rich, but it beats the living shit out of the weekly news magazine grind. Y’all have no idea how much I used to dread weekends.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 2:01
I don’t get the multiple window thing; too messy. If you haven’t tried it, Tab Mix Plus will give you a bazillion tab options like opening new tabs immediately to the right of the tab you’re on rather than all the way to the right, or it’ll colour them red if you haven’t looked at them yet, etc.
mmm...lemonheads said,
January 7, 2007 at 2:07
Small talk is a balancer - it brings your ego back to balance, and brings your flaws into the spotlight.
I’ve been a self medicator my entire adult life, and every time I’m seated at that table of misfits at a wedding I race to the bar for a 7&7.
But after two I realize the people I’m sitting with are PEOPLE, with the same flaws and scars I have, and probably have dealt with them in eight different ways, the same as the seat count at our table.
Things get easier after that. I start to listen, and react. It’s not that painful at that point, in fact it’s sort of an experiment. What will they reveal with the right question? What will I reveal when they respond? I used to abhor the process, but now I enjoy it.
His Grace said,
January 7, 2007 at 2:17
OT I know, but Latest Atlas Vlog has doing some awesome comedy stylings. I particularly like the fact she takes issue with a CBC television show for not demonizing Muslims.
On topic, I use 57 bajillion tabs to browse. I keep pretty much every link I open open until I have decided that I have osmosified all the information possible, which can be two, three hours before the “oh yeah, I was reading that.” realization kicks in. Of course I am borderline OCD (among other worse things) so I don’t let the least of my neuroticisms bug me.
His Grace said,
January 7, 2007 at 2:19
Crap, I should learn not to comment when I’m tired…
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 2:33
There once was a young man called Sven
Who’d been OCD since way back when
He’d count peas on his plate
And make wall-hangings straight
And this kind of thing would drive him nuts.
mikey said,
January 7, 2007 at 2:48
Damn, Bubba, that was brutal. I mean CLANK!!
While eating a pie made from lime
And discussing OCD at the tiime
Bill was washing his brother
‘Cause she smelled like his mother
But his limerick, at least, would rhyme
Fixed!!
mikey
New Day said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:03
Somewhere I read that small talk, particularly gossip, evolved to replace the bonding function that was once served by picking nits out of one another’s hair. This left our hands are free for, at first, I would imagine, picking fruit; then holding a martini and a cigarette; now using a keyboard and mouse.
Although I can see that it is not a popular position on this thread, I abhor small talk. This is not because I am above it, but because I am not good at it. So, alas, for me I guess the free hands will have to serve as puppets, as I stand alone, mocking the party goers.
tigrismus said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:17
Somewhere I read that small talk, particularly gossip, evolved to replace the bonding function that was once served by picking nits out of one another’s hair. This left our hands are free for, at first, I would imagine, picking fruit; then holding a martini and a cigarette; now using a keyboard and mouse.
Making such an observation is small talk, and you’d probably get a good laugh and quite possibly an interesting conversation about evolution, prehistory, cultural anthropology or whatever going. In other words, you, and others here who have slighted their chitchatting abilities, are filled to the utmost with beans. Yea verily I have spoken.
Lesley said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:21
Off topic…
Army asks dead to sign up for another hitch.
g said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:25
If small talk is basically talking about one’s work, I have just been handed the most incredibly small-talk-proof work assignment in the world.
About 2 weeks ago I was told to project-manage the installation and operation of new parking equipment in my company’s parking lot.
You can imagine the fascinated response I would get at dinner parties discussing the wonders of thermal ticket dispensers, anti-pass-back keycard settings, and ground-loop detectors for barrier arms…..
better to stick to the weather.
Some Guy said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:33
Also off topic, but related to earlier post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJvJ-dIC3pE
The Secret Life of Brian, full thing. 48 minutes long.
Should be the full thing, anyway. I haven’t finished loading it all.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:35
Damn, Bubba, that was brutal. I mean CLANK!!
Okay, let me give it another shot.
An obsessive-compulsive named Rex
Was a slave to his syndrome’s effects
He’d wash hands night and day
And then got carried away
On a stretcher after he read this part of the limerick and threw himself under a bus.
mikey said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:36
Dateline Fort Pierce, MT. American Army R&D specialists announced today that they would contribute to the expected upcoming “Surge” of troops to Iraq with a Zombie Battalion. The Zombie Battalion, the 666th Undead Battalion, would ultimately be based in Port Au Prince, Haiti, but initially would deploy directly to Baghdad. A spokesman for the Battalion, a Captain indentified only as “Z” said the unit would take on front line combat ops against the militias and death squads. “What do they know about death?” he was quoted as saying. “The insurgents have developed tactics that endanger our living troops, but we do not believe they have developed an understanding of how to stop Zombie combatants. We will be able to operate in their AOs without the concern for IEDs and snipers that have hamstrung our operations to this point. And without a need for body armor, food or water we will not have a negative impact on the battlespace”.
Ayatollah Sistani was expected to issue a statement decrying the deployment of Zombie soldiers to Iraq in the next several days…
mikey
mikey said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:45
Bubba, you dishonor your gift, Grasshoppah…
The bus driver was worrking that day
With the well-known fever from hay
It was Rex he ran over
But he was thinking of Clover
There’s always a few shades of Gray
mikey
flawedplan said,
January 7, 2007 at 3:52
Anne Laurie, I’m lightheaded to see you reference me in a thread, I have a platonic, non-threatening *thing* for you. I’m sure I’m not the only one. To recap:
And, as Flawedplan so brilliantly explains, our particular talking-primate culture has arranged it so that it’s usually women who are responsible for monitoring the small-talk conversation streams to find out what new group members are happiest discussing, and to shape the ensuing conversational pairings so that each member feels they’ve achieved maximum benefit for minimum effort. Of course, for all their hard work, women are summarily dismissed by the (mostly male) Deep Thinkers as trivial, brainless little networkers who have no interests beyond gossip, babies, pets, weather, interior decoration, the local worship community, and the price of bread. The Deep Thinkers, of course, prefer to discuss History, Sports, Science, the Arts, Philosophy, and Economics – which have nothing to do with trivial women-talk crap, after all!
But here’s where we cultural feminists turn that on its head, we pointedly advance, raise the caliber, entertain, play with and improve the social milieu. We seize the vibe. Make the good times roll. It’s not that I believe women are essentially superior to men, it’s more like, okay, I’ve been socialized into this role, so I’m going to reclaim it, subvert it, and make it mine. Relational virtues are an unqualified good, they’re not just for women, so let’s get them front and center and do some teaching, in fun, creative and deliberate ways. It’s Patti Smith and Bonnie Raitt but I used to know so many women like this, before the recent goals and ideology of feminism put us to sleep.
One more thing I’m thinking about, upthread talking to Brad, he mentioned lack of subtlety in men, I linked to the homepage of Nick Drake because he was arguably the most nuanced man we all have in common and his social ineptitude destroyed his life. His sensitivity wasn’t enough to help him negotiate the scene, and no one showed him how.
kingubu said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:12
Why does the inclination and ability to do many things at once (local count: 2 browser windows 5 tabs on one, 4 on the other, 2 text editor windows with roughly 25 code libraries and other docs from 3 different projects open, 3 IRC tabs, 2 shell windows 3 tabs each, etc 3 books going simultaneously in the bathroom and 5 more on the nightstand) have to be a “condition” that requires drugs to “fix”?
Its like the whole “Restless Leg Syndrome” I see the drug companies advertising for lately. As if feeling restless is something that requires treatment, as opposed to, say, an indication to get up off yer ass and move around.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:17
I’ve gone on about how much I like Kingsley Amis before, but maybe this is apropos.
From The Old Devils there’s a party scene in which a woman called Dorothy is a blowhard:
Standard Dorothy procedure said that when she got into that sort of stride and someone had to sacrifice herself for the sake of the others, then whoever happened to be the hostess stepped forward. The punishment seemed to even out pretty well except that on neutral ground, like Dorothy’s own establishment, Sophie got landed oftener than her turn. The others would agree rather sheepishly among themselves that she somehow sounded as if she minded it less.
flawedplan said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:19
Chops to you for saying that. I restrained myself, but folks need to get hip to Big Pharma’s plans for all of us. Worth investigating.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:20
Why does the inclination and ability to do many things at once have to be a “condition� that requires drugs to “fix�?
It doesn’t unless it screws up your life somehow.
Something to consider is that many of us have no problem self-medicating when we want to fuck ourselves up, but attempting un-fucking is supposed to reveal some dreaded weakness.
flawedplan said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:21
Cross-posted that comment for Kingubu.
Jillian said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:30
The difference between just being a bit of a spaz (which I am certain I am) and having ADD is like the difference between just being a miserable bastard and having acute clinical depression. They’re really only superfically similar. If you’ve ever experienced clinical depression, you’ll never mistake it for just having a shitty day.
ADD can screw up your life by, say, keeping you from getting paperwork turned into your boss on time, resulting in you being fired from a job. That kind of thing. And yeah - if there’s a medication that can help keep a person from getting so distracted that they screw up their life in that way, then it’s a good thing.
flawedplan said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:40
That’s a big “if”. I’m diagnosed with 5 enduring mental illnesses, and I did the computerized evaluation for ADHD and met the DSM criteria. But neither the neuropsychologist or a single one of my psychiatrists actually agrees I “have” ADHD, these goddamn disorders look a lot alike, and few people only have one.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:45
That’s a big “if�.
Or a little if. If you can get a prescription for one and it won’t make you go broke you can try it out and see if things get better or worse.
kingubu said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:51
Jillian: And yeah - if there’s a medication that can help keep a person from getting so distracted that they screw up their life in that way, then it’s a good thing.
Totally. And IMO you draw the line in just the right place: is the person that is so inclined/afflicted suffering or not. (I’m sure there are less subjective meas of diagnosis, too).
Where I get all soapboxy is over how it plays out in terms of general perception. How many people get wrongly medicated and told they have a “condition” that must be fixed, when what the really need is to learn the practice of how to have a balanced life from others who share their predilections?
How many delightfully eccentric novelty-seeking info-missiles (read: artists, scientists, innovative thinkers) will live lives of barely-cheerful desperate mediocrity because, as kids, Mom and Dad were told that tranqing them with FocusIn was the “solution” to their “problem”?
Candy said,
January 7, 2007 at 4:56
I think medication is great for people who have serious problems. What really pisses me off is the way they want to drug up every kid who acts out. They put my son on dexedrine, then adderal, then ritalin, at the tender age of six! because he acted up in class. The drugs didn’t do anything good for him, and actually seemed to make him worse, but that didn’t impress them. I finally had to just say, that’s enough, no more. I wish I’d done it earlier. He was just fucking smart and school bored him to death, as it did his mother before him.
I think a lot of the time, ADD, ADHD, and OCD are all just code for “you should be thinking and behaving exactly like everyone else, and since you don’t, there is something wrong with you.”
Recently, my now 14 year old kid told a doctor he felt depressed - he’s a teenager, of course he’s depressed - and they wanted to put him on the seratonin drugs, nevermind a growing body of evidence that teenagers on these drugs have a marked tendency to kill themselves. The further you stay away from doctors the better off you are.
I think you can tie a lot of it to the American idea that everyone should be shiny happy people all the time. Life is mostly not happy. Mostly it’s boredom interspersed with misery alternating with joy. If your misery and joy sort of balance each other out, then you’re doing pretty well. If you are seriously clinically depressed, as Jillian points out, that’s a different thing entirely. But when you go to a doctor, say “I feel sad and I’m crying all the time but my mom and a guy I should have married both died recently and then a friend of mine hung herself in the garage”, they want to put you on drugs. Shit, you should be crying all the time in a case like that. If you aren’t there’s something wrong with you.
I took Prozac for a while a few years ago. I’d had a number of deaths in my life (see above) and I was pretty down. It did help, but after a while I began to notice that I was cut off from all my feelings, the good ones as well as the bad ones. I couldn’t even cry. I’d literally rather kill myself than feel that way again. It was horrible. I’ll take the pain, if it means I can still write and read and laugh and cry and enjoy sex and get angry when it’s appropriate.
I guess I’m just saying that fads come and go in the medical business as in any other business, and you shouldn’t let them medicate you with stuff that has unintended consequences unless your situation is truly desperate.
kingubu said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:00
What Candy said.
flawedplan said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:10
Bio-psychiatry is a crock. Fuck it and the chemical imbalance it rode in on.
TC said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:13
And thus, as if to prove the idea that small talk can breach the wall between people leading to more substantive conversation, this post on small talk revolved around minor issues, but eventually developing into an in-depth, personal, humorus, and intriguing discussion of personality disorders and the medication of such….
mikey, I hate talking on the phone too. How sadistically ironic that now I run my own business, and spend most of my damn time, it seems, talking on the phone…..As Kevin Murphy from Best Brains once said, sometimes you wind up occupying your own, custom-built hell.
Lesley said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:14
What Candy said, plus most North Americans have appalling diets. We consume way too much sugar, refined carbohydrates, and transfats in factory-farm produced meats (that are filled with chemicals, hormones, and antibiotics), fast foods, take aways, packaged foods, junk food, fizzy drinks. It’s no wonder so many kids and adults are hyperactive and depressed…look at what they’re eating. Very few doctors are trained in nutrition and do not counsel people on proper food intake.
See:
Diet for a New America (a golden oldie) http://www.foodrevolution.org/dna_endorsements.htm
http://madcowboy.com/ (the truth about the meat and dairy industry from an ex-cattle rancher)
World’s Healthiest Foods http://whfoods.org/index.html
Fast Food Nation: http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/books/schlosser.html
Abby said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:19
Let’s see… I have 1, 2, 3, 4 … I have 14 open right now.
Righteous Bubba said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:20
Bio-psychiatry is a crock. Fuck it and the chemical imbalance it rode in on.
Saved my life.
Candy said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:25
Emily Dickinson (1830–86). Complete Poems. 1924.
Part One: Life
XI
MUCH madness is divinest sense
To a discerning eye;
Much sense the starkest madness.
’T is the majority
In this, as all, prevails. 5
Assent, and you are sane;
Demur,—you ’re straightway dangerous,
And handled with a chain.
flawedplan said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:26
“What I believe is that a lot of what people call mental illness and disease now are kinds of rebellions against what’s around them. What people need to understand when they take a look at others doing self-destructive drinking or not paying attention in their classroom is that there’s a kind of rebellion. That if you really pay attention to these people and get to know what they’re all about, they’re angry, resentful about something going on around them. What a lot of people have done over the ages, and you see this both politically and psychologically, is have their rebellion without wisdom. Their rebellion becomes self-destructive. A lot of what people do, without help, good parenting, good teaching, good counseling, is rebel irrationally, without thought. And then they make life worse for themselves and everybody around them. What I do, clinically—and what I argue for in the book—is try to understand and assume that there’s a reason … for why someone is angry, depressed or bitter. What you are supposed to be doing as a counselor, teacher or parent, is to help folks move into a more constructive kind of rebellion…as opposed to what we do in our culture, our society, and certainly within the mental health business, which is to try to squash rebellion. And worse than that, not even identify it as such. The ultimate invalidation is to look at some kid who is refusing to pay attention or behave well, and not respect that there’s something by way of rebellion and resistance going on there, and then to medicalize it and then to drug it. The thing that most embarrasses me about my business is that I’m utterly convinced that all of this will be obvious to people down the road—especially kids who have gone through it—that there was a kind of rebellion going on and it was squashed by biochemical means. But the thing is, it won’t ultimately work. It won’t. As we know, lots of these teen shooters have been on these psychiatric drugs. Things won’t work the way they want them to work. These drugs are short-term, and they get folks to be a little bit more compliant in the short-term, but in the long-term—like all of the attempts to control people—you produce resentment and resistance and even more anger. And God knows what kind of horrific behavior is going to be happening more and more down the road.�
LiP: Do you have words of optimism and encouragement for people suffering with psychological pain? How might they go about finding this sort of path you’re describing?
What I’ve found from my patients over the last 16 years is that the people who I see who are depressed and anxious are a lot of the most likable people I know. To me, it usually indicates that their soul is still intact. They’re capable of feeling hurt, loss, pain—they haven’t utterly anesthetized themselves like a lot of society. Take a look: one out of four people are on psychiatric drugs.
So, the first thing is, feel good about yourself that you’re human enough to still feel hurt, anxiety and pain.
The second thing is, forgive yourself for probably doing a hell of a lot of stupid things w/ that—self-destructive things, unkind, selfish things to yourself and others.
The third thing is that once you understand that there are good reasons for why you’re feeling the way you are, you want to move into finding a way to transform your life. That can be a real, satisfying, lifelong project.
Partially, what you start to understand is that you need to develop, in your life, a community of people who are like you, a community of people who really dig you. People who, when you see them and they see you, are really excited.
http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/feattalvi_141_p.html
kingubu said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:29
Abby: Let’s see… I have 1, 2, 3, 4 … I have 14 open right now.
You should really try to finish off the first 10 or so before they get all warm and flat. Look out for cigarette butts; I think I ashed in that one.
Tangentialism is the soul of wit…
His Grace said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:30
Medication can make a huge difference in a person’s mental health. In my case it probably saved my life and it definitely saved me from a fate worse than death.
I agree with Candy that there are far too many people being fed pills because they aren’t “happy” enough or they are behaving like normal children/teenagers and not the good upstanding future citizens we want them to be. We as a society don’t really talk about mental health issues much. We certainly don’t discuss openly the ethics of the medication.
My meds have bad side effects. I hate them. I hate the restrictions they put on me. The only thing worse than being on them is being off them. And I have had to realize that the medication is only part of the solution. I have had to fight to minimize my illness and adapt as much as possible to this world. I certainly have had to endure the near constant Hollywood portrayal of people like me as serial killers or (if I am lucky) a nice person who, tragically, has to be locked up for his or her own safety.
I think our quick fix world looks at the pills and thinks, “hey, here’s the miracle.” But the miracle is the people who, despite the odds, and in some cases despite the meds, live their lives as independently as possible.
TomKat said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:37
Ack! Get the multivitamins! I’VE GOT BODY THETANS GODDAMMIT, AND THEY ALL LOOK LIKE BROOKE SHIELDS!!!
Chuckles said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:40
I knew without even mousing over the above comment’s ID that it was teh l4m3. I need to get out more.
Also, Rogue brewery is The Decemberists of beer. Discuss.
New Day said,
January 7, 2007 at 5:43
“Making such an observation is small talk, and you’d probably get a good laugh and quite possibly an interesting conversation about evolution, prehistory, cultural anthropology or whatever going.”
Really, that is small talk? For me the phrase more brings to mind the wonders of the ipod, the latest Friends episode, or the dreadful lines at the airport. If cultural anthropolgy is your idea of small talk, I am goin