What he said is not what he meant.
So Chris X-ie went full Ourobouros on the subject of Vaccinations. Thank dog Daniel Foster was there to FosterSplain it all to us.
Carrying water for Christie must be some difficult work. Filling the bathtub with hand drawn water?…
So this Daniel Foster cat apparently loves him some twitter and while I have yet to figure out to whom the following is directed, the hoops through which he must jump, including a complete re-write to make his point is quite a hoot.
If you’re one of the people in my Twitter feed this morning, chances are you are badly overreacting to comments New Jersey governor Chris Christie made regarding the importance of ”balance” in government policy on vaccination. To show you why, consider a philosophical and then a political point.
First, the philosophical point. Here’s what Christie said:
Mr. Christie, when asked about the connection between the new measles cases and parents who object to the long-recommended vaccine against it, said that he and his wife had vaccinated their four children. He called that “the best expression I can give you of my opinion.”
But he added: “It’s more important what you think as a parent than what you think as a public official. I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well. So that’s the balance that the government has to decide.”
Mr. Christie said that “not every vaccine is created equal, and not every disease type is as great a public health threat as others.”
“I think you should vaccinate your kids. And I support some level of government coercion to make sure you do so. But there’s a limit to the level of coercion I support, and it depends in part on the safety of the vaccine and the magnitude of the public-health threat.”
Is that a fair approximation of what Christie said? If it is, I’m not sure I disagree with any part of it. Do you?
When you have a chance on a do-over, re-writing jackaloon jibberish, molding it into something, putting words that never saw the light of day in the original quote, while completely ignoring half of it, well then, sure. If I were to agree with your “fair approximation bit.”
I mean it would be one thing for the keepers of the kid who was raised by wolves, translated wolf boys gruntings into something understandable, but this is an entirely different fish fry.
Let me put it another way. If you support mandatory, full-spectrum vaccination and oppose “death panels,” you’d better be able to at least gesture at a limited principle located somewhere between the two. To anticipate your reply, of course I think there is such a limiting principle, but there are plenty of tough cases. Children aren’t routinely vaccinated against anthrax, for instance, because of the level and nature of the threat.
Please do…
OK you lost me with the Anthrax. Is there even a vaccination for that? [Edit: Major Kong in comments reminds me that there is in fact, a vax for the thrax, though a bit problematic with respect to gnarly side effects, etc…Point stands, stupid fucking example] Rummy should have had this guy around to put words in his mouth.
Let’s see if there is anything interesting in the comments, because I am done with this shithead and his oh so reasonable tone, also, too, pretending to explain arguments that are not in any respect being made by the people he is trying to defend.
Interestingly large amount of sanity in the comments over there. Apparently to some Christie is not “One of Us.”
But here is a good one.
W.A. Jones • a day ago
Mr. Foster,
Thank you for your comments. I can’t say that enough. I’m really surprised at the conservatives I respect and admire (including David Burge) who are slinging the words “freaks” and “nuts” around so liberally. Do remember that the far left considers anyone to their right to also be a freak and a nut.I highly recommend the stories posted on The Daily Sheeple website.
My wife is one of those anti-vaccine folks and I can assure you she is no freak or nut, and that she would lay down her life for our children. She and many others are also doing their own research into what is contained in the vaccines. You can look it up — it’s no secret — and all you can say is, “Oh, well, it’s a little mercury.”
That’s a fair argument — fetal cells vs. getting the measles or the flu. But it’s not fair to call other people names because you look past their argument and question their motives or, worse, claim they hate their children.
The best argument I know for the pro-vaccine parents is this: if your child is protected from my child, then shut the hell up because you have nothing to worry about.
I can think of a pro gun nut after the inevitable government issuance to all citizens of body armor stating that he should be able to fire his assault weapon in random directions as ostensible we would all be protected, yada yada, or in an example where the gubment mandates the wearing of full body latex suits…
This game could get ugly and disgusting pretty quickly.
Two words: Andrew Wakefield.
http://skepdic.com/wakefield.html
And if my pre-vaccination age child gets infected by your unvaccinated child, then what?
Hm… Herd Immunity vs. Herd Mentality.
OK you lost me with the Anthrax. Is there even a vaccination for that?
Actually there is. It was a big deal in the military a few years back because a lot people didn’t want to get the Anthrax vaccine.
Some people had side effects that were similar to Gulf War Syndrome. Most likely it was due to poor quality control from the original contractor than the vaccine itself (which veterinarians have been getting for years).
I managed to retire before they made me get the vaccine so I have no first-hand experience.
I have a new post up by the way:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/02/1360449/-The-not-quite-right-stuff-F-104-Starfighter
Anthrax is not communicable from person to person which is why mass vaccination does not make sense under usual conditions. Immunizing people in certain occupations or soldiers against the threat of an aerosolized weapon containing infective anthrax spores.
Major, I was a couple of hours away from the wifi and it dawned on me that the military had one, also, too, some problems with side effects. Thanks for making the point however…And you will get a tip o the hat… 🙂
But alas it serves as a ridiculous example with which to make his particular point.
The best argument I know for the pro-vaccine parents is this: if your child is protected from my child, then shut the hell up because you have nothing to worry about.
Dear Mr. Jones,
For the record, that’s now how it works. Also, I suspect you have posters of the Candies Jenny McCarthy ad all over your home and carpeting I would not walk on without a flamethrower and a 55 gallon drum of vinegar.
Vaccinations help incredibly, but for each individual person there are differences. The vaccine may not take, or the individual may be immunity compromised. (I had all my shots, and except for a small Messianic complex had no side effects, but also I’m Type II and slightly immunity compromised – I catch everything, at least to an extent. This year’s flu was a damn beaut.)
What helps the population as a whole, and the individual, is the herd immunity Mr. Bughunter mentioned – as the population is significantly vaccinated, diseases can’t take hold in the general populace. At that point even those with lesser immune systems or those whose vaccinations failed to fully take are protected.
For example, measles was considered virtually gone in 2000, with approx 30 cases in the U.S.
In 2015, we have over 130 (and growing) cases in fucking January.
In conclusion, tell me you have not bred. I know, it’s unlikely, Tab A into Slot B is very hard math, but I also hate you, with the dripping disdain of the snotrag you will give to your children when they get the measles.
Love,
paleo
(also, in the vein of the Major, allow me to blogwhore a post which would have fit nicely last post but P.UNE is quite prolific.
A Rather Hostile Post On Religion
WHAT KIND OF LANGUAGE HAS A WORD FOR POOP AND NO WORDS FOR JESUS?
I also enjoyed
The P.C. liberals already forced unicode to introduce more “diverse” skin colors
But I wonder if it wasn’t just the PC liberals but also included a lot of Mac and *nix people.
http://emoji.republican
http://www.celebtricity.com/christian-racist-teen-dies-for-5-minutes-comes-back-says-jesus-is-a-nger/
Why he would say “nger” I don’t know.
Also, Obligatory
whoa, pup…you hit a double jackpot…
while there is some sense in most if the comments, I did find out that the measles outbreak is likely from illegals, thx obama! also, too one guy is mad that we can’t just let our kids get chicken pox any more when back in the day kids looked forward to getting chicken pox!
Also, Obligatory
We actually ran into Dave Chappelle at a restaurant in Yellow Springs OH (he’s from there).
He was very quiet, almost to the point of being shy. The guy has some serious biceps on him. I think he’s been hitting the gym a lot since he stopped doing TV.
Not often you see Ourobouros in a post.
My mom got TB in her senior high year and spent some time in a sanatorium. She survived but not all of her classmates did. Not that I am older, I am have seen people I know get shingles – not pretty. I am pretty sure that I don’t want to get this either
No not about it, I am older.
apologies if this turns up as a double post but..
No not about it – I am older
I am have seen people I know get shingles – not pretty.
indeed…it sounds excruciating. and what these ‘let your kids get the chicken pox maroons seem to forget is that (as the commercial says) if you’ve had the chicken pox, THE SHINGLES VIRUS IS ALREADY INSIDE OF YOU!!!
as for chapelle, i imagine he’s quite complex and tortured…i can re-watch any episode and still lol…
Could you imagine Christie with measles? That corpulent lump covered with the distinctive rash?
I am have seen people I know get shingles – not pretty.
My brother Vincenzo got shingles and he said it was the worst pain he’s ever experienced.
I am have seen people I know get shingles – not pretty.
I got the Chicken Pox when I was 37. It was awful. People always ask me “Did it itch?” and I’ll say “No, it hurt bad.”
How did we get to a point where personal beliefs can triumph over science?
http://first-draft.com/2015/02/03/the-search-for-balance/
I’ve had shingles. Twice. The second outbreak – on my scalp and forehead wf? – was mercifully brief but I still have scars across my back, side, and chest from the horrific first episode. Was it the most painful thing ever? I don’t know I can say that. I can say it is among the most painful things I have ever experienced.
Rand Paul 2009: mandatory vaccinations may lead to “martial law”…
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rand-paul-vaccinations-martial-law
Don’t worry, Fox “News” is on it, too
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/andrew-napolitano-rand-paul-vaccines-tyranny
Hello? Is this thing on? [loud feedback scream]
Here’s a random thought…
– what percentage of the GNP consists of the “hucksters fleecing rubes” sector of the economy?
TV Evangelists, Anti- Abortion Crazies, those phoney charities that pretend to raise money for Iraq Veterans, the Pink Ribbon Campaign, Palin 2016 donations, etc. etc.
what percentage of the GNP consists of the “hucksters fleecing rubes” sector of the economy?
Very good. I’m surprised no one’s thought of that before now.
TV Evangelists, Anti- Abortion Crazies, those phoney charities that pretend to raise money for Iraq Veterans, the Pink Ribbon Campaign, Palin 2016 donations, etc. etc.
The whole conservative movement is a con.
Buy some guns, buy survival food and seeds, buy useless supplements, buy this book of cures that “THEY” don’t want you to know about.
Nice article, B4, and yes, the movement-conservative-rube-bilking-machine was pretty much exactly what I was thinking of when I posited the question.
But let’s not forget the Scientologists, or the Laetrile salesmen, or the guys selling the fuel additive that will get you 100 mpg, the guy with the Nigerian bank account, or the broker selling worthless stock, etc. etc.
And of course, let’s not forget organized crime, which I suppose is getting vigorish from legitimate businesses everywhere.
The problem is, how do you separate this kind of bilking from the “real” economy?
Or is it actually part of the “real” economy?
I would guess that, to be included as part of the GNP, the gummint would have to be aware of it to count. In other words, you would have to be submitting tax returns which religious-registered entities and “non-profits” wouldn’t have to do. That’s why criminals run the black market and the grey economy. That’s how they got Capone, remember ? No tax paid from his legit enterprises.
This is all off the top of my head, so may be twaddle. Sorry.
I once bought a big can of dried blueberries from some survivalist site. Ten years later I’m still getting spammed by them daily.
I signed up for the Human Events (Reagan’s favorite magazine!!!1!!11!) and lemmee tell ya, the number of “they don’t want you to know” scams that flood my inbox is amazing. Fleecing the rubes is the conservative gamesters’ sole practice.
Now that I read B^4’s linked Rick Perlstein article I see I echoed his experience. I just read his book Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus. which the usually awesome Portland Public Library had to order from Eugene on inter-library loan. Very interesting reading.
I had shingles — the scalp/head kind. Wasn’t any fun, but I’ve definitely been in worse pain from other things. Now that we have a chicken pox vaccine, shingles should be going the way of smallpox, but no we have the anti-vaxx shitheads out there making sure people will
sufferbe super-liberty enhanced from it for evermore.Also, too: I posted about this at my place but if you don’t want to bother going there, you at least need to see this part — Ninkasi’s response to Bud’s anti-craft-beer superb owl commercial.
http://youtu.be/ZEKqLxtjwDQ
Well would you lookit that, ute-oob embedding works. Neat.
Great ad. Makes me want to try Ninkasi but I don’t think they sell it around here.
Reminds me of an old joke where “Schlagerlager Beer” ran a contest asking people to come up with a new slogan. The winning slogan: Schlagerlager Beer is like love in a canoe!
So, the advertising agency put the slogan contest winner in front of the media – and someone asks “Why is Schlagerlager beer like love in a canoe?”
Answer: “It’s (freaking) close to water!!!
Or as Firesign Theater said in a fake ad for Bear Whiz Beer: “Son, it’s in the water – that’s why it’s yellow!”
American beer
A friend is involved in this brewery – Available in New England and New York. For any brits – he also puts on <a href="http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/beerfestival.html" this every year near Brighton –
Sorry for the tag fail – this
Sorry for the tag fail Glastonwick
Didn’t know squat about almost all the beers I saw at the vaunted Central Markup, er, Market so I just grabbed a six of Full Sail. At a reasonable price, too.
Turns out Teh Ho’s boss’ son runs a microbrewery so I’ll be hitting him up for info on the local goodies. Craft beer is very much a thing here, I’m happy to say.
And lookitthat – it’s now tini time here in the big D!
I sampled my first batch of home-brewed beer today and I dare say it was quite good. It needs more time to carbonate but otherwise I’m pleased with it.
All vaccines are equal, but some vaccines are more equal than others?
Ah, hipster infanticide … a dance as old as Sparta itself.
The price-tag for scientific illiteracy is open-ended.
Jenny McCarthy’s theme song.
I sampled my first batch of home-brewed beer today
Awesome!!!!
Nice work Kong. do you have another batch planned or in the works, If not, now that you have tasted success another batch might be indicated.
Nice embeddining there OBS….
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Word Press, have I told you how much I love you lately?
I’ve got big plans for the upcoming romantic holiday…
It will blow your mind..
xoxox
…
do you have another batch planned or in the works
Second batch is in secondary fermentation as we speak.
Now that I think about it, our new larger digs have room to accommodate a small (very small) brew op. Its been many years since I made my own beer – it wasn’t real special back then but I’m always ready to step up to a new game.
Second batch is in secondary fermentation as we speak.
Now there is a Boyscout!!!
it wasn’t real special back then but I’m always ready to step up to a new game.
Go for it pup. Given your extra worldly cooking skills, I would imagine that after a couple rides in the saddle you might surprise yourself.
I have some lovely bean and pork soup waiting for me when I decide to depart this wifi depot…
Also, too, As well, New one up!
For any of the curious, Cerb is fine, just busier than a (insert your favorite here). She promises to return soon.
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