The Saint Paul blurb on the back doesn’t sell books the way it used to. I recommend trying Dan Brown or J.K. Rowling for the ‘Stay Behind’ blurb.

“You tell him you are wondering why he chose to reject Christ.”

Because he’s a bastard who imprisoned me in a realm of ultimate pain and suffering for all eternity, just because I didn’t kiss his ass on a daily basis.

If you ask me he never had it to begin with.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/

Oh my god, Kirk has written the most boring essay on the frightful topic of hell that I have ever read. He danced around his point for the entire thing and made me care 0% about where my soul is going. In general, all that this current wave of religious fundamentalism has served to do is bring out my inner teenage rebel. It’s caused me to have far, far less respect for religion than I did before the christian wingnuts started feeling free to run their frickin’ mouths wherever and whenever. It’s made me take a closer look at religious claptrap and honed my BS detector to such a fine sensitivity that I no longer believe a word of it. Too bad they didn’t realize that their religion just does not stand up to scrutiny before they invited it in. (“it” = scrutiny, not religion)

And my mom still wonders why I left the Church. Uh…because your brain-washing didn’t work. I still manage to think rationally (at least every other day). Kirk, on the other hand, has swallowed a lifetime supply of fire-breathing Jesus Kool-Aid.

Thank you, Brad, for calling a nut a nut. Even a well-intentioned nut is a nut.

“Kirk is best known as the lovable teen heartthrob Mike Seaver, of the award winning series Growing Pains. He entertained audiences worldwide as the charming troublemaker. He is also known to every Christian as “Buck Williams” from Left Behind: The Movie — based on the NY Times runaway best selling novels by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.”

Because it is one’s duty as a Christian to watch every shitty, low-budget piece of apocalypse porn that comes down the pike.

Has Kirk has been taking lessons in diabolical plotting from Dr. Evil?

“The flames are well over…500 DEGREES.”
“We get the warhead, and we hold the world ransomed for…..One MILLION DOLLARS!!”

Will there be sharks with frickin’ laser beams on their heads in the Lake of Fire? Will there be anything in heaven cooler than sharks with frickin’ laser beams on their heads? I’d like to know, as the knowledge would impact my enthusiasm for conversion.

Thanks for posting this, Brad. Too funny.

One of the funniest things I saw on a recent visit to a southern state was an official “KAJN Jesus” radio station handy Hurricane Tracking Chart.

Cause ya know, once God has decided to create a bigass ol’ hurricane and send it roaring into your part of the world, the very least his Son can do in response to all your prayers is to give you a chart to track the destruction.

Thanks, Jesus! We Love You!!!

“I wear black on the outside because I feel black on the inside.” – Marie Jon’

The 2003 California Wildfires killed Hundreds of people, um Happily, No? Really google that shit before you publish a column on it.

Flame war at huffpost. Very funny.

well, tracy gould will clearly have the edge in the dating market after this.

Is that an antenna coming out of his head??????

Flame war at huffpost. Very funny.

Link?

All kidding aside, this is a pretty scary religion. I still think the Jack Chick parody tract sums it up the best.

link to flame war?

either sheehan thread on the front page

sorry, Brad, I’m a lazy bastard.

not that it’s a REAL good flame war

but some-one DID call me “tea-teeth”…

so, there’s at least one with a sense of humor over there.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/cindy-sheehan/this-is-george-bushas-a_5472.html

It’s sad, the whole thing. You’ll never be able to convince most military families that invading Iraq was a stupid idea, because they want to believe their children’s lives are being risked for a good reason. I don’t blame them, but it makes having a rational debate about what to do next all but impossible.

Do you ever feel this way?

Actually, there have been times in my life I’ve yearned for the big sleep, but somehow global destruction and eternal eternal suffering for others has never been part of the fantasy. Does that mean I’m not a good Christian?

Maybe we could cut a deal with Cameron and his kind. We’ll promise not to guilt-trip them after we’re dead if they’ll promise to quit annoying us while we’re alive.

I wanna invite y’all to the Church of Elvis on the Crapper. Yes, he died for your sins, but he don’t hold that against you! No afterlife, but all the pills and fried banana sammitches you can eat in this one!

Which Chick tract, Brian? He’s done several on the Rapture, and they’re ALL pretty goofy.

I really meant this link, but yeah, both are unreal…

the FReepers have swithced to mass-pasting nonsense words to drown us out.

brilliant.

reminds me that sometimes I talk too much, but also that sometimes someone lights a fire under my ass.

But, back to Kirk….

he appears the same, but with kooky googly eyes now…

and giving him credit for holywood cred’ is like calling Mandy Moore a power broker.

“He is also known to every Christian as “Buck Williams” from Left Behind: The Movie”

yes, you are actually not a Christian if you didn’t see the Left Behind TV movie. I believe they ask at the church door (and the pearly gates)

my favorite part ws definitely the fire fighter praying on whether to fight the fire. that IS what separates Christians from the rest of us!

Wowza, did that boy have a sudden lack of oxygen or what?

I just watched a program of EWTN (the church-going Catholic channel. Don’t look at me like that, I’m a Religion minor!) where a couple of priests and a theology teacher talked about how the evangelical’s Rapture is basically so much bullshit (obviously they didn’t use those precise terms, but that was the gist).
When you really look at their depiction of the Apocolypse, it’s really just an even more extreme version of the promise of Everlasting Life to Crusaders back in the 11th Century.
Crazy bastards.
I’m content to spend a few decades in Purgatory and live life as I so choose (which, incidently, with a few marked differances, mostly falls within what the Church finds acceptable) and give such consideration toward others.

One thing I’ve noticed from Chick tracts, which Kirking Cameron touches on, is the idea that non-Christians don’t know anything about Christianty until a true-believer tells them. In Chick tracts, the heathens are always surprised. “What, this Jesus guy died for me?” Than they either accepted it completely or violently reject it. Never do they say “yeah, whatever, I’ve heard that a million time”. If I end up in Hell, I’m not going to blame some fundie for not converting me. I chose not to be Christian.

Worms that can survive being burned in a lake of fire? Holy crap, those sound tough. Thank God the Russians never got their hands on them.

Laugh these off, Mammal-Boy!

Dammit, I’ve embedded links here before. Nonetheless, check out these glories of evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii_worm

D.- ever watch Animal Planet’s special on the top ten most indestructable animals? There was this one microscopic critter (some sort of mite, I believe) that could survive having a goddamn nuclear bomb dropped on it.

From the comments on Kirk’s article:

I have often wondered about staying behind. Just to minister to those, who aren’t Christians. Yes, I know of the tribulations to come. 50% of me says to go, with the Rapture. 50% of me says, no stay behind and help other new Christians, in their walk to Christ.

I’m so confused, now. So, like, you get to make a choice, at the very instant of the Rapture? You get to leave 50% of you behind, or what…? If so, can I leave the shitty shoes I bought at Globo, the slacks I thought would be slimming but really make me look hippy and one half of the man-rack I’ve developped in that last 10 years? I’ll gladly leave that if I can take with me my watch (tells time in two zones), my great hair (short and curly) my bubble butt (not yet sagging) and the memory of that night I spent hoovering blow out of Judith Light’s cleavage (I’m certain Kirk knows what I’m talking about here)?

And incidentally, the Hell Worms are laughing their asses off at your wimpy Pompeii worms:

Attaching themselves to black smokers, the worms have been found to thrive at temperatures of up to 80?C (176?F)…

Puh-lease. We’re not just talkin’ fire hear, we’re talkin’ hellfire, which is hotter than any other fire because the Bible says it is, OK? I dunno how hot that is, but it’s a gillion degrees celsius at minimum.

Between spending so much time working for the mainstream media & spending to much time hanging out with Boner, little Mikey lost his fucking mind. And all Tracey Gold got was a lousy eating disorder.

Here’s another of those guys. But I have to say, I sympathize with him.

Oh yeah, I saw that Left Behind thing: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ogami/39946.html

Not a mite, Brad. A waterbear. Which is one of the coolest names.
You want great Waterbear stuff, check this out:
http://www.waterbears.com/
And a song!
http://malwebb.customer.netspace.net.au/watbear.html

I can’t help it. They’re neat. The difference is that Jericho worms actually live and feed at high temps. The waterbear just curls up and waits it out.

I’ll respect God a lot more when the Christians start giving him credit for evolution. Chemosynthesis is amazingly funky stuff, at hot vents or cold seeps, and a deity who built a universe that could do that deserves props. A deity who just sort of painted them onto a planet and let the biology solve itself doesn’t do much for me.

I’d love to help some of these Xians get to their final destination!

j/k of course.

on the square!

Have you personally labored so hard for the lost that you have experienced what other Christians have endured?sweat great drops of blood, lived without food, without shelter, been stoned, whipped, left for dead, nailed to a cross, beheaded, burned at the stake, and been viewed as the garbage of society, all to save someone else’s soul?

Kirk, you damned slacker! It’s true-you haven’t run out and gotten yourself horribly murdered in a futile attempt to save the souls of some ungrateful, heathen schmucks! Don’t you know that a wiley gang of Islamofascists have been hiding in the weeds in that vacant lot down the street from you for a month now, patiently awaiting your arrival. Hey, here’s an idea-next Friday evening, hang out near your local Mosque, and observe when the Muslims go in for their prayer service. Wait a few minutes, then burst into the Mosque, shouting the Word for all to hear. After all, these poor, ignorant Muslims are all gonna wind uo toasting in hell unless the accept Jeebus as their personal savior. The least you can do is try and convert ’em! You’ll feel more at-one with Gawd after you do this. Trust me.

“Do you sometimes wish that God would quietly bring those of us who love Him into heaven with Him …”

Yes, I often wish he’d just beam you all the hell out of here.

“Ooo, neat! Do I get a shiny red hat?”

Silly Brad, wildfire fighters get yellow hats.

I have a title for a new “Behind” series book by Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye, but really ghostwritten by Kirk Cameron:

Spank My Behind.

Chapters would be:

1) I’m a victim…spank my behind.
2) I’m a sinner…spank my behind.
3) I can’t wait for judgment day…spank my behind.
4) I pray and pray that all the infidels will suffer horrible deaths and everlasting torment…spank my behind.
5) I love you Jesus…spank my behind.
6) If anyone crosses me or my religion, I’ll nail them to a cross, stick a spear in their side and watch them die in agony…spank my behind.

Of course, this Jenkins/LaHaye/Cameron collaboration would be a picture book showing the proper technigues to get right with the Lord by spanking one’s behind.

And if enough of these so-called Christians spent most of their time getting right with the Lord by spanking their righteous heinies, then maybe, just maybe, they’d leave all the rest of us freedom-loving, democracy-honoring, patriotic citizens out of their religious madness.

Oooops, hell would freeze over before that happens.

Hmmmm, Kirky Boy stars in a Tim La Haye movie, then he turns on Timmy.

Kirky, you biting the hand that feeds you?

The rapture happened a long time ago. Nobody noticed, the 144,000 were from some remote place without television stations or radio. They just kind of went poof. It was weird. Then WWII started. Then the X files. Then Millenium. Now Chris Carter has no television shows. Bumming out the multitudes. Please come back to us Dana and Fox!

hey Clark, I heard they are getting ready to make another X-Files movie. It’s in pre-production right now I believe.

On a less serious note, its about some colored man in Arkansas who is loved by all his friends but hated by the majority of the people because he espouses a philosophy of tranquil peace and helping one another. All the white folk around think he is just some liberal tree-hugging anti-American Leftie. They finally get sick of his spew and hang his butt. Mulder and Scully get involved because the dude gets up three days later and condemns them all, then rises up into Heaven.

Cameron is a hardcore fire-and-brimstone type, only with the delivery of Tony Robbins. Ecumenically, he makes Chuck Colson look like Mr. Rogers. His pet idea is that evangelicals in the past hundred years have concentrated too much on trying to convince people that turning to God will improve their lives, give them peace of mind, etc. He believes that the fear-of-eternal-torment aspect is the much more fruitful strategy. Thus he is inclined to metaphors like: God as a parachute that one wears not to improve one?s flight, but because?

“You might fall 25,000 feet to the Earth at any moment, and PERISH!!!” he shrieked, his eyes filled with what looked like real human fear at the idea.

Mal de mer, it appears to me you have your sitcom MILFs mixed up. Kirk’s tv mom on “Growing Pains” was Joanna Kerns (who was only about 30 when cast as the mother of two teenagers). Judith Light was on “Who’s The Boss?”. (Her tv son, Danny Pintauro, is gay.)

Actually most Christians worldwide DON’T believe in the Rapure as some of the Evangelical Protestants in the US do. And someone should point out to Cameron that hellfire was, well, a pretty MINOR theme when Jesus preached. Sheesh.

“Maybe we could cut a deal with Cameron and his kind. We’ll promise not to guilt-trip them after we’re dead if they’ll promise to quit annoying us while we’re alive.”

there it is

Who the fuck is Kirk Cameron?

The curious thing about the desire for the end of the world is that it’s less about bringing about one’s own salvation than it is the “sentencing,” if you will, of all the world’s sinners at once.

Naw. Cutting a deal requires some ability to be rational on the part of both parties!

Mal de mer, it appears to me you have your sitcom MILFs mixed up. Kirk’s tv mom on “Growing Pains” was Joanna Kerns.

My mistake. Though truth be told, I can’t tell Judith Light from Joanna Kerns. Or “Growing Pains” from “Who’s the Boss” for that matter. Two blond moms, two goofy male authority figures, a couple of kids…it all runs together.

“What’s the temperature, Kenneth?”

Those four words alone are funnier than anything ever written by FrankJ or the IMAO crew.

A horrible, fiery end for those who do not follow and obey has been an effective tool of control over the rubes for centuries.

It kinda makes the big lie about Saddam’s mushroom cloud seem like a trip to the park, but both are part of the same technique to control masses of ignorant peasants. It’s called fear mongering and it works. Very well.

Silly Brad, wildfire fighters get yellow hats.

OK, but I was on a peyote trip at the time, which means I COULD HAVE ANY DAMN HATE I WANTED. OK?

Didn’t Gary Coleman come back to save some people after he died?

I’d also like to know who the singer is that he’s complaining about. Because if she’s singing traditional songs, many of which were written when times were so bad that people hoped for nothing more than death so they could go to heaven and not have to work so hard anymore, then maybe she’s not really advocating it, just honoring the traditional music. Like the Carter family or something.

That article made my brain hurt. The lack of logic involved in a loving creator creating beings that have to ASK for salvation or be tormented for eternity boggles the mind, and that there are people that think that is the definition of perfect love is insane!

I asked a real religious cousin of mine about that, saying – so, if your church’s missionaries fail to find some tribe in Africa and preach to them, EVERY person in that tribe has to not only not go to heaven, but SUFFER eternally? Just ‘cuz they weren’t born in the right zip code? God supposedly put ’em there, it’s his fault, not theirs. And if your not gonna blame God, then how come the missionaries don’t get sent to hell for not working hard enough to save everyone?

Fuck Mike Seaver and his super worms.

“Hey, here’s an idea-next Friday evening, hang out near your local Mosque, and observe when the Muslims go in for their prayer service. Wait a few minutes, then burst into the Mosque, shouting the Word for all to hear. After all, these poor, ignorant Muslims are all gonna wind uo toasting in hell unless the accept Jeebus as their personal savior. The least you can do is try and convert ’em! You’ll feel more at-one with Gawd after you do this. Trust me.”

Don’t forget to tell them about their ‘Moon God’.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

I’m sure they will appreciate it!

Here is another good one.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1054/1054_01.asp

Doesn’t Susy have anything better to do?

Wait until Kirk and his buddies go and try convert the Iraqis.

Then you’ll see some hellfire.

I’ve got a puzzle for Kirk Cameron. Shouldn’t a good god be a just god? Shouldn’t a just god have just punishments for sinners? Shouldn’t just punishments be proportional to the sin committed? Is it proportional to punish someone FOR ALL ETERNITY IN HELL for fairly minor sins like infidelity? Hell, even murderers can sometimes be paroled in this world. Isn’t it somewhat unjust to torment sinners in Hell for all eternity? Isn’t it really unjust to torment a soul for all eternity just because that person didn’t believe in God? After all, believeing in God is surely a matter of faith. Therefore, if Hell exists, doesn’t it follow that God is unjust? And if God is unjust, does it not follow that God is not good? And if God is not good, should Kirk Cameron really be worshipping this deity?

I just noticed something. You said that Kirk (“Even My Name Says Church!”) Cameron recently became a fire-breathing evangelical. I was not a watcher of the sitcom, but I saw one of those “Behind the Laughter”–or whatever they’re called–specials about his show, and apparently he found Jaysuz during the last season or two of the show. The hottie actress playing his girlfriend at the time had posed for Playboy a few years previously. So after the little jerk turned Christo-creep, he got her fired from the show. What a sweet boy!

Very funny thread to lighten up a Friday morning. Asbestos suits all around for you’all when I see you in hell. Somebody bring the marshmallows!

I’ve been saying this for years. The religious nut-jobs out there that power the Republicans are just bat-shit crazy. They fully believe in the Rapture, Armageddon, the Anti-Christ, and the return of Jesus. Furthermore, they mostly believe that it’s all coming very soon; perhaps even in their own lifetimes.

This worldview has very serious implications.

The environment: if the world is soon to be destroyed, then there is no point in conservation. We are also entirely justified in polluting and killing as much of the earth as we see fit.

Other people: only those whom have been “saved” have worth. Those that have not been saved do not deserve any pity or compassion unless they accept Jesus. Their version of Jesus, of course. The only reason they can’t be killed outright is because there is a chance they can be redeemed. Besides, Jesus will do it for them eventually.

This is more tangential: those who are rich, are rich because they enjoy God’s favor. Any policies that do not favor the rich are wrong; perhaps even the work of Satan. Similarly, those who are poor do not enjoy God’s favor and do not deserve public support until they embrace the Lord. Of course, Jesus commands us to pity the poor, the beggars, so it is OK to give a little change to the bum at the bus stop. He’s gonna have to go get him some religion before he gets any more than that though.

Folks, religious extremism is dangerous no matter who espouses it or what particular methods of expression they choose.

Is gnashing your teeth the same as grinding your teeth? Because my dentist says I grind my teeth at night, and it’s really not so bad. Plus, I got a teflon mouth guard from him and now it’s no problem at all. So I’m just saying that the ‘gnashing of teeth’ part may not be so bad, that’s all. The rest of Hell might really suck , though. Plus spending all that time with Dan Rather. Yikes!

OK, then, Asbestos suit: Check! Mouth guard (I already have one, too): Check! Bring on the empty meaningless sex, “Christian” heavy metal, Wicca, and gluttony, ’cause I’m-a comin, Satan! Haw-haw!

Engineering to Captive Kirk:
“Captive, aye, yer suffering from oxygen depravation, laddie! Turn yer air back on! Yer starting ta blather, Captive? It’s no use. He’s already gone!”
“Kirk! Kirk! This is Bones! I know I’m supposed to be dead, but that’s only in real life. Turn on your air otherwise your going to die. That’s the only way you can save yourself! Dammit, Kirk, I’m a doctor not a diety! Kirk! Kirk!”
“Kirk! Spock here. What you’re doing is not logical although you may think it is. That’s because you are suffering effects brought on by lack of air. Kirk! Kirk! Doctor, I’m afraid it’s too late! Goodbye, Captive.”
What will happen to Captive Kirk? Will he die from oxygen depravation? Will he suffer permanent brain damage? Stay tuned for the next exiting episode.

There’s nothing a few comely space-yeomen in 60’s hooker boots can’t do to “save” our Captive:

Yeoman Janice Rand: Captive, I’m here if you need me. I’ll take boldy where no man has gone before.
Kirk: Judith?…I mean Joanna?

I’m still confused about why the wildfire parable has to be specific to late 2003. Why couldn’t it have been just any wildfire, past, present, or future?

This is a great post with excellent analysis. I love the bit at the end about using scripture to analyze a book that was never written. Classic!

I’ve always wanted to send this to Krazy Kirk:

http://www.o-ox-ox1.org/cthulhuchick/

Heheheheh….Cthulhu Fhtagn!!!

More to the point, we don’t subconsciously long for the day when they’re made to suffer for all eternity.

Or maybe they do — does a belief system in which, as others have pointed out, God condemns people to hell for even the most minor sins, indicate a love for humanity, foibles and all?

I did have a fundy explain to me, when I asked why God waited so long to send Jesus, that he had to wait until enough people would accept Jesus to establish a Church. When I asked “what about those who lived before Jesus”, she said that Jesus went to hell to minister to them and they were then saved.

Still, it does seem to me that a just God would indeed punish as befits the crime and a merciful God would show some tolerance for human frailty.

As the Jewish (I forget if it’s mainstream or Hasidic) saying goes: “God, if you wanted us not to sin, why did you kick us out of the Garden?” (Judaism doesn’t necessarily view what Adam and Eve did as a “sin” … as they didn’t know about Good and Evil yet, having not ate from the tree of knowledge).

Kirk offers what seems to be valuable advise, but when I think about the details I get confused.

One problem that I have is the following: can I prepare myself for the First Comming (avoid shrimp, wear minature Torah on my neck etc.) and the Second Comming? On the first glance, there is a problem because part of the preparation is to have Faith, and thus I should believe the this comming is the first one AND that it is the second one. And what about the comming of Amida Buddha who saves the world periodically (I guess the latter can be postponed till the next cycle, and spend the time between two cycles in one of the interesting buddhist hells, like Hell of Ice and Cold).

http://www.heritagesingers.com/Clips.html#Renew
People die to their old nature of sin. We live in happiness because of the Lord Christ Jesus who gave us a free gift of forgiveness and one day eternal life to be where he is. “We all have sinned and fallen short to the glory of God.” ” God is faithful and just to forgive us of all sin.” We understand that anything we might suffer here on this fallen planet will be restored. We will see our loved ones again one day. It will be a real life without sin that has caused you and I to not understand even each other. We do not wish to die. We uplift life and embrace life. We are happy and gregarious people who love the Lord. We know the beginning and the end. How? We read God’s WORD. We are wise in the Lord . We allow His presence in our heats to change us to resemble his own. “Sanctification is a work of a life time.” We are not perfect. We will to be perfect for his glory and to do good for all mankind. What’s wrong with that? Sadly No? You do not want such a gorgeous , loving and happy life here as well as a real life after this one.
Marie Jon’
A Biscotti

Marie! We’ve missed you!

People die to their old nature of sin. We live in happiness because of the Lord Christ Jesus who gave us a free gift of forgiveness and one day eternal life to be where he is. “We all have sinned and fallen short to the glory of God.” ” God is faithful and just to forgive us of all sin.” We understand that anything we might suffer here on this fallen planet will be restored. We will see our loved ones again one day. It will be a real life without sin that has caused you and I to not understand even each other. We do not wish to die. We uplift life and embrace life. We are happy and gregarious people who love the Lord. We know the beginning and the end. How? We read God’s WORD. We are wise in the Lord . We allow His presence in our heats to change us to resemble his own. “Sanctification is a work of a life time.” We are not perfect. We will to be perfect for his glory and to do good for all mankind. What’s wrong with that? Sadly No? You do not want such a gorgeous , loving and happy life here as well as a real life after this one.
Marie Jon’
A Biscotti

http://www.heritagesingers.com/Clips.html#Renew

Hellooo Nurse!

She’s back!! She’s back!! She’s back!!

Marie: I don’t get this whole “A Biscotti” thing. Please explain.

Asking people about what they could/would/should have done == GUILT TRIP. And not even for something they have done.

That is psychological violence on the part of Kirk.

Brad, to be fair to Kirk, jerk or not, he still has a point that people on his side of the fence should be encouraged in: that all this daydreaming and fantasizing about being raptured is inherently selfish (and, we would add, vain: as if the Christians of one place and time were any more deserving of the Lord’s Return than any other).

He’s absolutely right that this is against the Bible, that Christians are supposed to bring their fellow humans to Christ and salvation rather than retreat into thinking how special they are and how hopeless everyone else is.

We had despaired of any fundamentalist ever realizing this. He really didn’t deserve being fisked like this, even if he was on Growing Pains.

Meh- he’s just the standard fundie “preacher” with the kinky twist of once having been on a painfully mediocre TV show (where he was best friends with a guy named “Boner”).
He’s still a crazy bastard- though in his case (and to his credit), at least he’s pretty up front about it.

Red and black – “A Biscotti,” or, more accurately, a biscotto, is a crunchy Italian cookie. Obviously, Marie is reminding us to dunk the crispy cookie of Christ into the Cappuccino of Salvation in order to achieve eternal life and one wicked caffeine buzz. You, too, can be a Pastry for the Light of the World.

Now that I think about it, espresso overload is a reasonable explanation for Kirk’s coked-out Jennifer Wilbanks expression in that picture there.

I agree with Sullywatch on this, at least for this particular column. The rest of his stuff could very possibly be just fundie crap.

Thanks for the comment, Marie! It was nice to see you on topic for once!

SullyWatch and Yosef have a point. As someone over on Slacktivist commented, this is a call for Premillenial Dispensationalist Bodhisattvas. I prefer my Bodhisattvas without the PD, but it’s better than PD without the Bodhisattva.

what”s the big deal folks? if you don’t believe it, don’t mock it. methinks you protest too much.are you afraid Kirk’s right? by the way, the City picks up my garbage once a week? why shouldn’t the Almighty have a garbage day?

Hardly, dear boy/girl-

The fact we mock it is because it’s false. The fact that he is trying to woo people into a utterly false manner of worship with fantastically high expectations is a threat to normal people everywhere, who may be dumb enough to believe this shit.
If Kirk and his buddies are right- there are like, twenty people in heaven now and all of us are fucked.

Like me for example- like most Papists, I’m prone to blasphemy and drunkeness (and thus lust/adultery, which according to Kirk are the same thing), not to mention taking part in some “idol worship” (those darn Cath-o-lics!). No problem- I can confess that stuff and still get to heaven after some time in Purgatory.
But Wait!– according to Kirk’s website, Purgatory doesn’t exist (and by implication, neither is Confession a viable method of repentance, nor, for that matter, does my good works and other penance mean shit). I guess I’m screwed- those uber-worms in Hell are gearing up to feast on me. That is, of course, unless I go to Kirk and follow his interpretation of Christ’s message.
Hmmm- does that sound just a bit manipulative to you? I should know- the Catholic Church did a lot of it back in the day (they’ve got better, thankfully).

Ecumenicalist, Kirk ain’t.

Thank you, GuinessGuy. Kirk may be less wingnutty than many of his peers, but when your peers are Pastor Swank and Jerry Falwell, that ain’t sayin’ much.

Amazing. For these fuckers, even being a Boddhisatva is license to be a dick.

They mock us when we say we believe in the Bible.

Perhaps the most telling part of his rant. They believe in the Bible, first and foremost. God and Jesus are in the Bible, so they believe in them as well. The Bible, however, is primary. Which explains all too much of the fetid “theology” that spills forth, like so much feces, from their mouths.

Sorry for that last bit. Couldn’t help myself.

Perfect, Padraig, but now that I think about it, they’re really pretty third-rate Bodhisattvas anyway. They’re offering to stay, but with the understanding that it’s a limited gig. Real Bodhisattvas commit to countless lifetimes. Kirk seems to think seven years would be a huge sacrifice.

It’s as if that psychedelic firefighter’s captain actually said, “Listen, there’s a fire raging out of control, I want you to get out there and save as many people as you can before we knock off at 5:00.” “What about all the people who’ll be left?” you ask. “Let ’em burn,” the captain replies. “Sounds like a plan,” you say, and hurry off, the picture of selfless compassion.

“The influence of the secular media is polluting the morals of our children and that really concerns us. Let’s all pray the Lord comes quickly to save us and our children from any more of this evil and then pray no one gets left behind- right?”

And then Kirk complains that people make fun of his “faith in Jesus”. Let’s see. When Paul was writing his letters to the faithful, there was plenty of statuary of nude gods, godesses, nymphs, satires, sportsmen, etc. We are talking about centers of Hellenic arts, Ephesus, Korinth, Athens, Rome etc. Smaller pieces of Greco-Roman art were often very naughty. Did Paul ever raise the issue of keeping the children away from such images?

This whoke idea that if you know more about the body of the opposite sex than a general outline your morals are polluted and you are doomed, doomed, doomed is incoherent.

I’ve always wondered about this…

What exactly is “gnashing” your teeth? Is it like grinding your teeth? If it is, why not just say “grinding”? Or maybe it’s clenching…whatever it is, I don’t get it.

To paraphrase the late Bary Goldwater, “I think every good Christian should kick Cameron’s ass!”

“I wonder if Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye would ever consider writing a book called Stay Behind, about a group of Christians who would rather stay and reach the lost than depart and be with the Lord? I wonder if it would sell?”

Sounds like a Bodhisattva to me. So Kirk Cameron is calling for Christianity to become more…. Buddhist!?

hey Guinessguy, who told you you were normal?

Oh the man is totally bonkers. I am gay and I used to think he was cute in a boyish dumb way -BUT – now that he has become psychotic I cannot imagine kissing the boy. Yuk

I won’t worship anyone meaner than I am. Since I would not send people to a hell for not loving me and thinking I am the greatest, any god that would send me to hell for that is meaner than I am.

Of course, I guess I’d have to believe in magic first.

Hey, I have three dogs. I feed them all very well and give them lots of love and attention. Two of them love me back. When I get home they run up to me and lick me. The third one runs up growling and biting. I’ve taken him to obedience school but they tell me he’s incorrigible. I’ve sought second and even third opinions and they all agree. I’ve concluded the dog is hopeless, tomorrow I’m taking him to the pound. I wonder what they’ll do if they can’t find someone to adopt him? Got any suggestions, Moonbiter?

question,
I suppose that in a case like that where the visciousness is so deeply ingrained in his nature, you’d have no choice but to put him down. I know it’s a tough decision, but you can’t blame yourself. You weren’t the one who made him that way.

Of course, since he’s no good as a pet anyway, you can do whatever you want with him. You could even torture him for all eternity, if that’s what turns you on.

did you ever see the E true hollywood story on Growing pains? When kirk discovered jesus he started treating his fellow cast members like shit! You can see that years later, they are still baffled and hurt by the way he treated them. So kirk is just like all the other fundie wackjobs — a big fat hypocrite who doesn’t practice what they preach!!!!

Jesus said fear not him who kills the body but cannot kill the soul.rather, fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.(Mt.10/28) destroy, my friend means to perish completely not to burn forever in literal flames.The worm not dying is a comparison to a waste dump where refuse is burned. millions, billions of useless souls will perish in this manner, just like that useless pet of mine.

by the way, the City picks up my garbage once a week? why shouldn’t the Almighty have a garbage day?

So, question, are you implying that when gawd “raptures” up the faithful, he’s really just taking out the garbage? Ooh-harsh!

In response to the people talking about it being unfair for God to send people to hell for ‘minor’ sins, we are condemned for rejecting Jesus. Because God is a holy and righteous God, even our little sins (lying, pride, lust) cause a gap or huge chasm between us and Him. Trusting in Jesus for forgiveness and salvation is the only way to bridge that chasm.

The thing that God desires most from us is simply a real relationship with Him. Jesus is His peace offering to redeem that relationship.

He loves you, even if you reject Him and his gift. He desires that no one would die, but that we all would have life with Him forever. However, just like you wouldn’t open up your home for a perfect stranger to move into to live with you, to live with Him, we have to become friends. We need His forgiveness.

Brad, that was one of the funniest things I’ve read in a while. Thanks.

question wrote: “millions, billions of useless souls will perish in this manner, just like that useless pet of mine.”

Q, that is so arrogant, b/c it automatically assumes a large %age of earth’s population is incapable of being anything but brutal just b/c they don’t follow your version of god, and can therefore be “put down” like a dog. In case you haven’t noticed, a huge majority of humans care a lot about other humans regardless of their religion; the %age that would attack without reason is very small, and we humans are usually pretty efficient about taking care of them ourselves.

BruceH wrote: “Folks, religious extremism is dangerous no matter who espouses it or what particular methods of expression they choose.”

I agree entirely… but you forgot one thing: Not only do they believe it’ll happen soon and want it to, they are gradually making it happen, but blaming it on others. When such delusional belief fuels action, the longer it goes on, the more likely it is to become self-fulfilling prophecy, esp. when the believers have nuclear weapons.

(That’s why we need to get them out of the White House ASAP. I think the biggest thing that’s saved us so far is Bush’s complete incompetence. If he were smart and crazy, we’d be in very deep trouble.)

Hey!!!
Don’t make me come down there…God. Really folks,don’t base your beliefs on this kind of intellectual masturbation. Read the bible for yourself, make your own choices. You are responsible for you.

Q, b/c,%age.I wonder if intellectual masturbation is a by product of intellectual laziness or vice versa? The wonderful thing about internet blogs is that even second graders can post comments.

Well, question, I’d say you’re fully justified in taking the dog to the pound. I mean, you could keep working on him, but you’ve expressed that you’re at the end of your powers; you’re not omnipotent, after all! (Of course, if you were, you’d never “conclude the dog is hopeless”, as after all nothing’s hopeless if your power is unlimited.) And hell, you’re not even required to use all of your powers; you’re not the image of perfect love, after all! (Of course, if you were, you’d never give up on the dog even if it was utterly beyond your ken; to do so would be to be imperfectly loving.) Really, who is? …oh wait.

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but love is good
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dating_love/message/1

Hello! I am Toyota Altezza 😉

I know some may not agree with Kirk just like Brad and have that right, but personal attacks about him and the things he believes are wrong. Point 1: It is easy to purposely misrepresent someone when you don’t agree with them. Consider the source. Point 2: E True Hollywood. The Title is an oxymoron in itself. When a person truly comes to know Christ, that experience completely changes your life. A lot of people don’t know how to quite handle it at first. They may even hurt someones feelings. I think thats what happened with Kirk. At the end of True Hollywood the cast members said He apologized and was forgiven. Point 3 Since when has being a Christian become Religious Extremism. Are you guys serious? Let’s define being a christian. To follow after Christ and His Word(The Bible)who is Love, who in history is known as a passivist and preacher of free will. Your girl Grace sums it up pretty well. Some of you who have posted messages need to actually read the Bible before commenting on it. I am not talking about reading one page then misquoting the meaning. An actual study. I know many SANE people that did it and came to realize how much God loves them. You may still not agree and that’s OK like I said before. Heck, I don’t agree with a lot of the above posted comments, But I’m not going to personally attack anyone of these people who made those comments. I’m a Christian and I believe in the Rapture. Am I dangerous? I don’t think so! I feel bad if I kill a bug. God Bless!

I think some of the above posters exhorting the “fundies” to compassion could stand some themselves; how exactly is it productive to yell about some actor being a nut? For my part, his piece, flawed as it is in most ways, is still about ten clicks more compassionate than the Left Behind series. It’s a start. How about some encouragement?

I respect all Kirk Cameron is doing for God’s Kingdom. I believe in the Lord because of the things He has done in my life. I constantly feel His presence and no I’m not crazy or stupid I’m just in love with my Heavenly Father who saved me and forgave me for all the horrible things I have ever done. SALVATION is simple: BELIEVE God is who He says He is and that he sent his only son to die on the cross for your sins and mine(for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23)and rose from the dead three days later; and CONFESS with your mouth from your heart that Jesus is Lord and lastly that you are a sinner and need him in your life. I pray God will bless you and that you will fall int the arms of a loving father. (What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31)

I respect all Kirk Cameron is doing for God’s Kingdom. I believe in the Lord because of the things He has done in my life. I constantly feel His presence and no I’m not crazy or stupid I’m just in love with my Heavenly Father who saved me and forgave me for all the horrible things I have ever done. SALVATION is simple: BELIEVE God is who He says He is and that he sent his only son to die on the cross for your sins and mine(for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23)and rose from the dead three days later; and CONFESS with your mouth from your heart that Jesus is Lord and lastly that you are a sinner and need him in your life. I pray God will bless you and that you will fall int the arms of a loving father. (What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31)

[But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in you heart(that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:8-10]
If anyone has any questions I will try to help you thruogh the word of God. Any questions email me at chelleann777@yahoo.com
I pray that the blessings of God will abound in your life!

Are the comments by the Xtians real? I wonder why they read a blog about Mike Seaver? Do they censor the whole net and make comments wherever their world view is questioned? I wonder….

Hey, how about that Christian church from Topeka Kansas that showed up at funerals for the members of the armed forces who lost their lives in Iraq with signs like “God Hates You” in front of the grieving family? Yeah boy, that makes Christians look compassionate. The sin the dead committed? They belonged to an army that “might” include homosexuals. Homophobia and Christianity. What a nut mix. Face it, Christians do a lot more harm in the world than they do good. Like Woody Allen said, if Jesus came back, he would never stop throwing up at what people do in his name.

I was about to write the guys at Way of the Master an email. In which I would tell them that the fact that they have really bad motives of forcing religion didn’t really bother me as much as the fact that they’re SO STUPID they can’t even write about it correctly. Not ONE point was really made. Every story trails off without an ending, just the beginning of another story.
But then I went to the sight and went to the “Contact us” Button… low and behold… it doesn’t work. You can always tell someones a liar when they don’t want to be asked about something.

I tripped upon this page while checking to see if Mike Seaver was Kirk Cameron (chiding a friend of mine who really gets into The Way of the Master). I understand people thinking Kirk is cheezy, and his movie really was terrible. But I hadn’t seen this much venom yet. Wow. And then to consider the Westboro “Baptist Church” indicative of Christianity…they’re nothing but a mock “church”.

Dear Christian Haters – Stop looking to the net, or your own bad experiences, or movie portrayals, to form your arguments against Christianity. Find a decent pastor/priest who you don’t already view as bigoted and ask them hard questions. Ask if there is another side. Then ask yourself if you’re capable of seeing things any other way than the way you do now. If not, then don’t waste your time, relish your own ignorance masked by “enlightenment and reason”.

I encourage you to read one book about one Christian – Mother Teresa. Cover to cover. She was direct, relentless, courageous, absolutely selfless, and had a heart with endless room for those we all would find repulsive and unforgiveable. That is a Christian. Ask yourself why she did it. Ask yourself if you ever could…and why not.

One of the posts above did get something right – the “Left Behind” series is based on crap that was imagined a couple of centuries ago, and is not generally accepted by Christian churches.

If anyone really wants to know what core, Biblical Christianity is all about:
1. There is a God who caused all things to happen, for purposes unknown, unprovable, un-unprovable (sp?), but real just the same.

2. He/She/It allows us to turn away from him (sin), to feel we are smarter than we others (pride), and allows “bad” things to happen (evil). This does not make him evil, nor does it mean a part of him is evil. It means that without these things, his creatures (including us) would be mindless zombies with no reason to better ourselves, learn, divine his purposes, or prove that we want to follow his lead. Some cynically call that slavery. True Christians believe that is sacrificing selfishness for selflessness.
3. He is the good and perfect judge. He knows everything that factored into their decisions. We will be held accountable for things (why shouldn’t we be?), forgiven of things, and will live for eternity with said judgement. Some think hellfire is hyperbole (as in, imagine an unimagineably uncomfortable position), some think it is real. Inhouse debate. Point is, you don’t want to let pride and sophistry get in the way of very real accountability.

4. Judaism in Christ’s time had fallen to legalism, “relationship with God” was poorly understood and done, the poor (majority of people) were marginalized, and the biggest world power was a cancer that kept spreading. And the concept didn’t end in Christ’s time, it never will so long as man is man, and mankind sets its own view of beauty as the highest standard.

5. God poured out his power (condescended) to become a lowly man. To experience humanity as a human. To show humanity what love, truly unselfish love, really means. To heal sick people. To truly piss off the powers of the age. And to experience death, to wash sins, and come back again.

6. He chose disciples (more than 12) who watched this first hand. Some wrote about it. One of them betrayed him (possibly instructed to do so). 11 of the 12 closest disciples suffered and died horrific deaths defending what they saw was true. Not what they thought was true…what they SAW was true. The last (John) lived to old age, but was tortured and imprisoned during most of his life. For what HE SAW, not what others saw, or what a man dreamed.

7. And finally, Christ said the most important commandment was to love God. The second was the love thy neighbor (even the ones we think we should hate). He also commanded his disciples once to go out and do 2 things: heal the sick, and spread the word.

You want to spit judgement about the “sins of Christianity?” Want to lump Christians into your convenient box of Kirk Cameron-esque philosophy? Want to claim the Christian world view is responsible for more hatred, filth, atrocity and ugliness than it is worth?

First, there were more atrocities and deaths caused by athiesm in one century than all “Christian-caused-conflicts” in all of eternity – by orders of magnitude. Just count ’em up – Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung. Yeah, atrocities in the name of Christianity were committed…but nothing on the scale of non-Christianity. Crusades? Which one? The first one, where islamic tribes conquered/killed/plundered hebrew/christian/non-religious lands and peoples? Or the ones after, when Christian nations sent troops to fight back? (Certainly not apologizing for the tactics on either side, which were cruel, but let’s be honest about what really happened, not the whitewashed middle school history book version)

Then, understand that Christianity is called to serve food to hungry people, found hospitals, dig wells in Africa, help alcoholics through recovery, adopt needy children, etc etc. That’s not supposed to be a side project…that IS the project.

Choose to focus on the negative that’s fine – hundreds of thousands of Christians are too busy helping to be bothered with sending press releases or boycotting soldier funerals for stupid reasons.

The problem here is that most people (including most Christians) are equating American / Evangelical culture with Christianity. Who came up with this idea of the rapture? Who decided christian=better than you? Who decided that George Bush is the mouthpiece of God? It certainly wasn’t Jesus. Christianity is supposed to be a religion of humility, servitude, and love. It’s NOT supposed to be a club of “the saved” waiting for the entertainment of “the lost” burning. If someone is doing that, they obviously aren’t a true Christian, or at least they’re confused. By the way, I didn’t see or read Left Behind, and I am a Christian

“Chris the evil Christian said,
August 1, 2006 at 0:12”.

Ah, he admits he’s evil at least!

“I tripped upon this page while checking to see if Mike Seaver was Kirk Cameron (chiding a friend of mine who really gets into The Way of the Master). I understand people thinking Kirk is cheezy, and his movie really was terrible. But I hadn’t seen this much venom yet. Wow. And then to consider the Westboro “Baptist Churchâ€? indicative of Christianity…they’re nothing but a mock “churchâ€?.

Yes, becuase the “No True Scotsman!”-Fallacy only applies to nonbelievers!

“Dear Christian Haters – Stop looking to the net, or your own bad experiences, or movie portrayals, to form your arguments against Christianity.”

No need.
I’ve read the bible.
What else would be necessary?

“Find a decent pastor/priest who you don’t already view as bigoted and ask them hard questions. Ask if there is another side. Then ask yourself if you’re capable of seeing things any other way than the way you do now. If not, then don’t waste your time, relish your own ignorance masked by “enlightenment and reasonâ€?.”

Yes, because enlightenment and reason are “of teh Debbil!”.

“I encourage you to read one book about one Christian – Mother Teresa. Cover to cover. She was direct, relentless, courageous, absolutely selfless, and had a heart with endless room for those we all would find repulsive and unforgiveable. That is a Christian. Ask yourself why she did it.”

At the same time I’ll ask myself why she thought that poor people where -supposed to suffer- according to her Gawd.

” Ask yourself if you ever could…and why not.
One of the posts above did get something right – the “Left Behindâ€? series is based on crap that was imagined a couple of centuries ago, and is not generally accepted by Christian churches.”

Being blind on purpose is now a virtue?
If so, consider your chastity belt intact.

“If anyone really wants to know what core, Biblical Christianity is all about:
1. There is a God who caused all things to happen, for purposes unknown, unprovable, un-unprovable (sp?), but real just the same.”

And if that AIN’T prime wingnut… what is?

“2. He/She/It allows us to turn away from him (sin), to feel we are smarter than we others (pride), and allows “badâ€? things to happen (evil). This does not make him evil, nor does it mean a part of him is evil. It means that without these things, his creatures (including us) would be mindless zombies with no reason to better ourselves, learn, divine his purposes, or prove that we want to follow his lead. Some cynically call that slavery. True Christians believe that is sacrificing selfishness for selflessness”

And the crusades where just misinterpreted PR-ventures!
Yep… No Wingnuttiness in that at all!

“3. He is the good and perfect judge.”.

Yeah, siccin’ rabid fuckin bears on children!

“We will be held accountable for things (why shouldn’t we be?), forgiven of things, and will live for eternity with said judgement. Some think hellfire is hyperbole (as in, imagine an unimagineably uncomfortable position), some think it is real. Inhouse debate. Point is, you don’t want to let pride and sophistry get in the way of very real accountability.”

I can’t even cumpute what this is supposed to mean.

“4. Judaism in Christ’s time had fallen to legalism, “relationship with Godâ€? was poorly understood and done, the poor (majority of people) were marginalized, and the biggest world power was a cancer that kept spreading”

A certain Monty Python sketch seem eerily pertinent.
“What has the Romans done for us?!!”
etc… etc…

” And the concept didn’t end in Christ’s time, it never will so long as man is man, and mankind sets its own view of beauty as the highest standard.”

Okay… didn’t make sense there, either, did you?

“5. God poured out his power (condescended) to become a lowly man.”

You mean he spilled his semen?

” To experience humanity as a human. To show humanity what love, truly unselfish love, really means. To heal sick people. To truly piss off the powers of the age. And to experience death, to wash sins, and come back again.”

Which is why he condemned people with his “gnashing of teeth”
Yeah, that’s “truly!” unselfish. If your standard is “truthiness”, that is.

“6. He chose disciples (more than 12) who watched this first hand. Some wrote about it. One of them betrayed him (possibly instructed to do so). 11 of the 12 closest disciples suffered and died horrific deaths defending what they saw was true. Not what they thought was true…what they SAW was true. The last (John) lived to old age, but was tortured and imprisoned during most of his life. For what HE SAW, not what others saw, or what a man dreamed.”

Believe in ages-old mystical sparkly ponies!
It will prove yer point always!

“7. And finally, Christ said the most important commandment was to love God. The second was the love thy neighbor (even the ones we think we should hate). He also commanded his disciples once to go out and do 2 things: heal the sick, and spread the word.”

Christians have a hard time adhering to that…
I present an example: YOU.

“You want to spit judgement about the “sins of Christianity?â€? Want to lump Christians into your convenient box of Kirk Cameron-esque philosophy?”

That’s YOUR bunkmates, buddy.
Kick ’em out if you don’t like ’em.

“Want to claim the Christian world view is responsible for more hatred, filth, atrocity and ugliness than it is worth?”

Yes. Yes, indeed I do.

“First, there were more atrocities and deaths caused by athiesm in one century than all “Christian-caused-conflictsâ€? in all of eternity – by orders of magnitude. Just count ‘em up – Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung. Yeah, atrocities in the name of Christianity were committed…but nothing on the scale of non-Christianity. Crusades? Which one? The first one, where islamic tribes conquered/killed/plundered hebrew/christian/non-religious lands and peoples? Or the ones after, when Christian nations sent troops to fight back? (Certainly not apologizing for the tactics on either side, which were cruel, but let’s be honest about what really happened, not the whitewashed middle school history book version)”

Hitler was Christian.
NEXT.

“Then, understand that Christianity is called to serve food to hungry people, found hospitals, dig wells in Africa,
help alcoholics through recovery, adopt needy children, etc etc. That’s not supposed to be a side project…that IS the project.”

Good.
Put sometimes they take it a wee bit too far and predicate their “help” on cenverting to their wingnut ways.

“Choose to focus on the negative that’s fine – hundreds of thousands of Christians are too busy helping to be bothered with sending press releases or boycotting soldier funerals for stupid reasons. ”

And here you are… proving that YOU are NOT too busy…
Ouch, my fucking irony-nerve just imploded!

I am a Christian and I understand some of what you all are saying, but I do think you’ve misunderstood some of what Kirk Cameron was saying.

Also, important to note is:

God does NOT cause hurricanes, tornadoes, diseases, etc. The God I serve is a good God–and also a just God.

Satan is the one who is out to destroy. Hell was created for Satan and the other fallen angels. It was not created for any human. However, if we choose not to receive Jesus then by default we have chosen Satan and will go where he goes. When Eve was tempted by Satan and ate the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden, she and Adam lost their authority. Before this, God told them to take dominion over the earth. When they disobeyed God (sinned), they gave their authority to Satan and he became a destructive force in the earth-diseases, calamities, mental illness, hatred, other sin etc.

But Jesus gave his life for everyone. Everyone can be saved if they accept Jesus died for them and was raised from the dead. In the name of Jesus, the dominion/ authority that was lost to Satan in the Garden is regained. By trust in Jesus comes healing, restoration, peace, strength, joy, love for others.

Now, many who say they are saved, do not have love for others. They are not saved who do not genuinely love others. Perhaps, some of you have experienced this false type of “Christian” and have been discouraged by it. Maybe you’ve been falsely judged or rejected. Let me tell you, that is not the way of Jesus. Jesus loves unconditionally and so should those who call themselves Christian.

Ways to love as a Christian: feed, clothe, shelter, teach, listen, understand, and yes, openly share Jesus–but don’t cram it down anyone’s throats. Love is never forceful. Love is never proud. Love is patient and kind.

“my favorite part ws definitely the fire fighter praying on whether to fight the fire. that IS what separates Christians from the rest of us!”

I agree. If someone is wounded or sick, do we have to pray to get them help? Of course we go get them help! I think that was Kirk’s point. He was making the illustration that we as Christians should not be praying about helping other people. That IS God’s will. God wants us to help others. Why should we have to pray about that.

Maybe pray how to most effectively help or pray for protection and help. Those are other reasons Christians pray.

God does NOT cause hurricanes, tornadoes, diseases, etc.

Yes he does.

Well, that’s that.

I find what Jodi said earlier, about people who have not found Jesus, to have by default chosen satan idiotic. That would mean that all people of other religions including Jewish people (like Moses and Noah for example, they lived before the time of Jesus) are condemned to hell. This is why I don’t follow an organized religion even though I was raised a Christian. Long ago I stopped drinking the Jesus Kool-Aide. Christianity, which claims to have a message of people has so many messages of hate with you look at it (and you don’t need to look that hard) that by definition; you cannot follow it word for word and be considered a decent, civilized human being.

I chose to be a decent human being, to care about others, to respect others who will respect me and my opinions. Christianity does not offer me those things. If I had to chose a religion or die, I would chose to be a Buddhist. Even Einstein said he would choose Buddhism if he had to choose a religion to worship. He was an agnostic. Blind faith is bad.. It blazes a path to ignorance.

I have a theory that Kirk Cameron is going to rise up himself as the Anti-christ.

When you watch him telling people on the streets how scummy and sinful they are you certainly see a cruel streak in him that loves the thought that people are going to die then be tortured (so, not really dying at all).

Did you notice that… everyone gets eternal life, just some will have it more comfortable than others.

Be Careful what you say….It doesn’t matter what you think…In the end only the facts willl count. God’s word clearly tells us what we need to do to get to Heaven and what is going to happen in the end times. Kirk is only trying to tell people this truth because he cares about where they will spend eternity. You first have to recognize that you are a sinner that needs to be saved, so that is why kirk is showing people that we all sin and have broken the 10 commandments and are in need of a savior. If we were perfect Jesus would not have had to go to the cross. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but will have eternal life. You have free will….The choice is yours to accept or reject God’s free gift. Jesus died on the cross, in our place, for our sins because He loves us. The rest is up to you. God bless….

Okay, I am posting an independent comment on this. First of all I think that forcing any religion onto people is wrong. Faith is a personal feeling. You can not force Faith onto others just like you can not force compassion and love into them. I have read the bible from the Old Testament to the New one and believe that it is just a history book as well as a guide book. It tells you to follow ten simple rules and then tells the history of how they were given to us and the history before and after. God sent his son down after realizing that he could not hold us to the same standards as his legions in heaven. He sent Jesus down to die for our sins so that we did not have almost instant death and/or suffering after committing them. We do not have to have organized religion to have Faith in God or to pray to him. He hears every thought in our heads, every desire in our hearts, and every regret after any sinful actions. He created us not to be perfect but to strive to better ourselves and the world around us. He wants to see just how far we can go, how smart we can become, what we will discover. He watches each of us when we rise, when we fall, when we help others, and when those others turn to help us. We are not his only creations… he created a massive universe that we are only a very small part of. There are others. There are other creations on different planets, dimensions, and planes of existence. We are arrogant in that we wish to be the only “children” to have the glory of God’s attention and love. I just tell the others who listen to me to pay any kindness that you can. Give a dollar to the raggedy man at the gas station and tell him not to thank you but to pass it on when he can to another. Smile at people when you pass them on the street. Keep God in the back of your mind and the peacefulness of your Faith in your heart. Religion is only for those who can not have Faith without others telling them to. It is for those of weak Faith. Those that need to be told that they are good by other imperfect “children” and pat on the head. It is for people who need others to feel Faith at all. And to try to use force of all kinds to make people have Faith. I am 27 years old, I am a lesbian, I have Faith, and I do not go to church.

first of all the 144,000 jews comes out of the Great tribulations . The bible says that the # of the Jews who got saved during the tribs and many more Gentiles (every race). Of course that hasn’t happened yet have you seen a man out of the Europen union make a 7-year convenet with the Jews and has the Temple been built yet(no). The Temple will be built in the first 31\2 years of Tribs because the BIBLE SAYS that it will be built for the end isn’t here yet until these things happen. Have you saw this Man of Sin start the mark of the Beast where you would have to chip in your head of hand (no) that hasn’t happened yet and besides if it had then I wouldn’t be here I would be in heaven w\Jesus and married to him before all these things even happens. Know the Bible before you can call someone wrong… The end is near and all these things are about to happen. But I’ll be in the Rapture..

Amanda:
Revelations was a dream. Transcribed by a man. A human, infallible man.

It’s bogus. But if you and your ilk want to waste the rest of your lives playing Chicken Little, pointing fingers, and preaching faith over works, keep it up.

What a freaking nutcase he turned out to be. His new movie ‘Fireproof’ should really suck. Who would be stupid enough to cast him as the lead in a feature movie anyway?

I found this site by googling “best selling chick tracts.” What a funny way to expound on Kirk’s column. He does write some really good and descriptive ones, doesn’t he. I know he took a hit to his career, but hey–he had guts to follow his convictions. Kudoos to Kirk!

First of all, Brad, I don’t belive you understood the message Mr. Cameron delivered. He was telling this to Christians to convince them that our job here on earth is to spread the message of salvation for those who have not heard it. I suggest you get the meaning of the message right before you comment on it. But I have something to tell you, the Bible says there is no other way to heaven but through Jesus Christ. No one is innocent, worthy of entering heaven. Everybody has sinned either by lying, stealing, or commiting adultery, etc. The Bible warns us that if we are unclean and sinful, we will not enter heaven. But that is not what God wants. God loves you so much, He was willing to give his Son Jesus to die for you. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.” -John 3:16. Imagine you are in an airplane and you soon realize it’s about to crash. You only have one way out and that is jumping off, but that’s not going to help because you’re going to die anyway. Well you find a parachute and you jump off to land safely. That parachute represents Jesus Christ. He is our path to heaven. That the gift God gave us so that we won’t have to suffer eternal pain, but that we can live eternal joy. But God is a gentleman and He will let you chose. So make a decision Brad. Has anyone ever loved you this much? GOD LOVES YOU MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE. If you want to accept this gift, simply ask God to forgive you and turn away from sin. Don’t reject this opportunity because nobody knows when our last day will come. Think about it.. 3 nails + 1 cross = 4 life

GOD LOVES YOU MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE.

Would God let me assfuck him without lube?

Alright, which of you slackers forgot to post in 2011?

“Kirk? Not to bring up that annoying “logic” stuff again, but if someone was burned to death or beheaded, do you really think they’d be sitting at their computer and reading your article?”

## Surviving unsurvivable events like decapitation, burning alive, being shot to death with arrows, cut to pieces, tortured to death, having one’s intestines removed while fully alive, and other fun things happens all the time in mediaeval Lives of Martyrs. However high the gore quotient, the hero/heroine always survives all torments, until the time comes for the martyrdom. Sometimes, as with St.Paul, the decapitated martyr turns bleeds milk: whether pasteurised or not, is not said.

So the answer to the question could – theoretically – be “Yes”. A film of “The Golden Legend” would be too gory even for Mel Gibson. It’s full of fun stuff like this.

The Bk. of Revelation is a good book – but it’s been thoroughly screwed by the unBiblical & anti-Christian nonsense that is “Left Behind”.

What your interpreting of what he’s saying is not what he’s saying. I hope you pray to God for understanding! Ask God the things you don’t know and allow him to show you!

You all judge Christians because they are so judgmental but wake up . you are all just as judgmental at least he stands up for his beliefs cant you respect that . Gosh people grow up.

Aren’t you specifically told not to judge by Jesus? It would be stupid to burn in eternal hellfire for blog comments, so I’d cut that out.

I cannot believe how many people are Attaching a person who is trying to help people understand what Jesus has been trying to teach us. I am shocked and saddened by all these horrible comments. Don’t any of you fear God? Can’t any of you discern what is right and what is wrong? Most of the comments here are from bullies who are headed for a big reality check . I pray you get checked before your final decision and see you in Heaven!

This is surely the most blatant misinterpretation of someone else’s statements that I have seen in a long time.

So what you’re saying is that you want to be sodomized by monkeys in nun costumes.

I AM GLAD YOU BECAMEA CHRISTAIN BECAUSE THE TIME IS GETING SHORT .THEN THOSE PEOPLE WHO CSOSE THE WRONG PATH,AND WHEN THEY STAND BEFORE THE KING OF KING’S AND HE SAY’S DEPART FROM ME FOR I KNOW YOU NOT YOU WORKER’S OF ENIQUITY.P.S.KEEP STANDING FOR GOD KIRK